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John Thompson
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« on: March 15, 2008, 01:59:35 AM » |
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From the web page, "Spitfires Over the Kuban", linked elsewhere on this forum: http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/english/articles/spit/"After dinner, the pilots clashed with a pair of Yak-1 fighters that was acting strangely. This and subsequent engagements of trophy Yaks, used by the Germans, were reflected in detail in division intelligence summaries. At 1510, north of Nizhenebakanskaya, a pair of Spitfires was attacked by an unidentified pair of Yak-1s that were painted in a dark color. During the attack the running lights of the Yak-1s were illuminated. At this same time, abbreviated commands in a loud German voice were heard over the radio in the air. The Yaks attacked not only the division?s Spitfires but also its Airacobras. According to data collected from all the regiments, the decision was made to paint a recognition stripe on all Yak-1s, which later was constantly modified until the ?imposters? were shot down." It would be interesting to learn more about these Yak-1 recognition stripes, and what variations were used! John |
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« Last Edit: March 15, 2008, 02:01:31 AM by John Thompson »
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2008, 11:25:43 AM » |
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Topic Summary Posted on: March 14, 2008, 06:59:35 PMPosted by: John Thompson Insert Quote From the web page, "Spitfires Over the Kuban", linked elsewhere on this forum: http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/english/articles/spit/"After dinner, the pilots clashed with a pair of Yak-1 fighters that was acting strangely. This and subsequent engagements of trophy Yaks, used by the Germans, were reflected in detail in division intelligence summaries. At 1510, north of Nizhenebakanskaya, a pair of Spitfires was attacked by an unidentified pair of Yak-1s that were painted in a dark color. During the attack the running lights of the Yak-1s were illuminated. At this same time, abbreviated commands in a loud German voice were heard over the radio in the air. The Yaks attacked not only the division?s Spitfires but also its Airacobras. According to data collected from all the regiments, the decision was made to paint a recognition stripe on all Yak-1s, which later was constantly modified until the ?imposters? were shot down." It would be interesting to learn more about these Yak-1 recognition stripes, and what variations were used! Hi John,  It would be interesting to know someting on the pair of Yaks utilized by Germans, too. Dark color? Who knows if they had red stars... Massimo |
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John Thompson
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« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2008, 02:06:10 PM » |
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Here's a profile from Wings Palette: http://wp.scn.ru/en/ww2/f/349/2/0/1_a1The source is given as "Luftwaffe Experten Message Board", whatever that is. I don't think the aircraft in the profile is one of the ones mentioned in "Spitfires Over the Kuban", though. It still has the standard VVS camouflage, German markings, and a yellow fuselage band. I think these features would have have been noticed by the VVS Spitfire pilots. Maybe it's only a captured aircraft used for evaluation purposes, although the yellow band was also a Luftwaffe Eastern Front recognition feature, wasn't it? John |
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2008, 06:55:46 PM » |
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Here's a profile from Wings Palette: http://wp.scn.ru/en/ww2/f/349/2/0/1_a1The source is given as "Luftwaffe Experten Message Board", whatever that is. I don't think the aircraft in the profile is one of the ones mentioned in "Spitfires Over the Kuban", though. It still has the standard VVS camouflage, German markings, and a yellow fuselage band. I think these features would have have been noticed by the VVS Spitfire pilots. Maybe it's only a captured aircraft used for evaluation purposes, although the yellow band was also a Luftwaffe Eastern Front recognition feature, wasn't it? Hi, I think the same thing. Probably the pirate plane had not markings, or only low visibility markings. Perhaps it was the same plane of the profile, but repainted, else Soviets didn't need to paint recognition bands on their Yaks. Massimo |
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Apex1701
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« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2008, 03:32:32 AM » |
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2008, 07:15:30 AM » |
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Hi Jean, interesting images indeed. Is there any comment on the date and place? My doubt is: from the description of two dark-painted Yaks that tried to seem as Soviet planes, I imagined a different look. Massimo |
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John Thompson
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« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2008, 04:11:28 PM » |
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Thanks, Jean - it's always good to see new images of VVS aircraft, even in the wrong markings! I wonder if the Luftwaffe used these Yak-1b's operationally in any way. It appears that the black crosses are much larger than standard - if these were the "imposters" Yak-1's described in "Spitfires over the Kuban", it would seem logical that the VVS pilots who encountered them would have reported the very obvious crosses, but perhaps visibility was poor. They did recognize the aircraft as Russian-built, though, so this suggests that they could see them reasonably well.
John
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Apex1701
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« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2008, 09:28:26 PM » |
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Hi guys, In Dragons on Bird wings in pages 68 and 69 the authors report 4 encounters with strange Yaks over the Kuban: Of course there's surely more. 402 IAP: - One Bf-109 and an two Yak-1 with red spinners, white lettering on the fuseage, red stars with no numerical markings with the right wing having been stripped of paint and the left wing green paint shot down a Pe-2 and presumably a 402 IAP Yak 812 IAP's pilots reported encounters with a grey colored Yak on few occasions: - 25 october 43 west of Danilo-Ivanovka where six VVS Yaks intercepted 4 Bf-109 with no success because of that mousy color Yak; - 27 october 43: 2 blue-grey Yaks were encountered. They manage to shot down a VVS Yak; 43 IAP: - 21 november 43: a lone unmarked Yak-1 fired at a 4 Yak flight before being shot down over Bolshaya Znemenka. The profile from Avialogy shows a RLM 74 and 75 painted, possibly operated by JG-52. The photos come from this website with photos of captured VVS aircraft: http://www.luftwaffe.be/photographs/aircraft/sovjet_planes.htmlAll the best. Jean |
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John Thompson
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« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2008, 09:40:54 PM » |
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Thanks again, Jean, and thanks for the link - more good Russian aircraft images, and most of them very clear too!
(Two or three very good Yak-1 photos, lots of MiG-3, Il-2, and I-16's, including two new ones of my favourite early "Rata" - that's a total of *seven* now!)
I'm still curious about the recognition stripes/markings which the VVS used to avoid confusion with the Luftwaffe Yaks, though!
John
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« Last Edit: March 17, 2008, 10:21:34 PM by John Thompson »
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Apex1701
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« Reply #10 on: March 18, 2008, 12:33:19 AM » |
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Dark Green Man
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« Reply #11 on: March 18, 2008, 05:34:23 AM » |
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Thank You for posting that link !
there are some very interesting images there !!
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« Last Edit: March 18, 2008, 05:46:39 AM by Dark Green Man »
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"when we lose the right to be different, we lose the priviledge to be free"--Charles Evans Hughes
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marluc
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« Reply #12 on: March 18, 2008, 11:56:29 PM » |
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Jean: Excellent link,thank you very much!!!Superb I-16 (and ??I-5 biplane!!) photos. Best regards: Martin |
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