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John Thompson
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« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2012, 12:48:32 AM » |
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Interesting - it appears to be in good condition, considering how long it's been submerged. I wonder what will happen to it now - restoration for a museum, perhaps? John |
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KL
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« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2012, 01:57:31 AM » |
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Interesting - it appears to be in good condition, considering how long it's been submerged. I wonder what will happen to it now - restoration for a museum, perhaps?
My guess: If new owners find a western buyer they will restore it to flying condition. All wooden parts will be replaced, all rusty steel will be replaced with new steel parts. Engine will be replaced with more reliable Alison. Old parts (aka junk) will be trown away of course. If there is no rich western buyer, plane will be restored as a static exhibit for a Russian museum. Rotten/rusty/missing parts will be replaced/made of fiberglass and beer can aluminum. In either way plane is going to be stripped of old paint and repainted to represent plane of an ace. Cheers, KL |
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learstang
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« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2012, 02:15:22 AM » |
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That does look to be in decent condition - the wings on a Yak-1 were wooden weren't they? If so, was this aircraft buried in the mud, which preserved the wooden parts?
Regards,
Jason
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"I'll sleep when I'm dead."
- Warren William Zevon
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2012, 09:36:21 AM » |
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Hi,
this is likely. I just wonder why they have to find a wreck in good condition and rebuilt it all (wood, tubes, engine...) to make it fly. Couldn't them rebuilt it at 100%?
Regards
Massimo
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Pascal
Jr. Member
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« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2012, 11:39:11 AM » |
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I just wonder why they have to find a wreck in good condition and rebuilt it all (wood, tubes, engine...) to make it fly. Maybe to can say that it is an authentic warbird? Couldn't them rebuilt it at 100%? Because in this case it would be only a replica... I agree with Konstantin's point of view. Regards, Pascal |
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John Thompson
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« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2012, 04:46:40 PM » |
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Interesting - it appears to be in good condition, considering how long it's been submerged. I wonder what will happen to it now - restoration for a museum, perhaps?
My guess: If new owners find a western buyer they will restore it to flying condition. All wooden parts will be replaced, all rusty steel will be replaced with new steel parts. Engine will be replaced with more reliable Alison. Old parts (aka junk) will be trown away of course. If there is no rich western buyer, plane will be restored as a static exhibit for a Russian museum. Rotten/rusty/missing parts will be replaced/made of fiberglass and beer can aluminum. In either way plane is going to be stripped of old paint and repainted to represent plane of an ace. Cheers, KL If it was up to me, I'd say restore it for a museum instead of some rich guy's toy (but I might feel differently if I was in the position of being able to make a lot of money by selling it to the rich guy)! John |
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Troy Smith
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« Reply #7 on: June 14, 2012, 12:11:06 AM » |
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Hi,
this is likely. I just wonder why they have to find a wreck in good condition and rebuilt it all (wood, tubes, engine...) to make it fly. Couldn't them rebuilt it at 100%?
Regards
Massimo
Massimo a couple of considerations, first is it has 'authentic parts' and the second is for the UK, and maybe europe, that the CAA [Civil Aviation Authority] would not give a airworthy permit to WW2 fighter built as new, which is why there is big business in so called 'data plate' restorations, where there is an existing identity even though 90% of the airframe is new. I'm no expert on this, and even as I type I wonder how the new build Fw190-8/N fits into this... There is are mixed opinons on aircraft restoration, an example of this is the Halifax II at RAF Hendon, which is displayed as it was just after recovery, with a clear red coating is a preservative applied but otherwise unrestored. The reason given being it would have become a replica. There is a very interesting book on the subject, "Restoring Musuem Aircraft" by Robert C Mikesh, who was curator at the Smithsonian IIRC, which deals with this subject. The Halifax is a rare exaple of an unrestored exhibit, and while fascinating to the enthusiast most likely looks like a wreck to the casual observer. Most musuem aircraft have been repainted and 'restored' at points in their history, and often with little regard to history. If you lucky they just have more paint slapped over the top...unlucky and they have been stripped. My personal favorite is the Finnish Hurricane, which has been pretty much untouched since 1943 and is fascinating for it's internal colours. there are some great photos posted in this thead of this. http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=52968&st=20Sorry, bit of a rambling post, but I hope a few interesting points. cheers T |
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learstang
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« Reply #8 on: June 14, 2012, 12:50:05 AM » |
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Not rambling at all, Troy - an interesting post. I can tell you that preserved "wrecks" of the Il-2 are invaluable in trying to figure out just how the aircraft was built, and with which materials (at least for that particular aeroplane). There is an example at Szolnok, Hungary, which has been preserved since it was lifted out of Lake Balaton in 1999, but has otherwise been left "as-is". It shows very nicely that the armoured windscreen was indeed composed of separate pieces (in this case apparently laid over a single piece on the inside), and that even with this wooden-winged example (the wood for the most part being long gone) the wing spars are metal. Of course, on this site we've seen colours preserved on wrecks, faded and changed over time that they may be, that help us reconstruct just how VVS aircraft were painted. That's just the sort of information that over-zealous "restorations" destroy. Let's hope that with this Yak-1, even if they replace the wings to make the aircraft airworthy, they preserve them.
Regards,
Jason
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"I'll sleep when I'm dead."
- Warren William Zevon
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #9 on: June 14, 2012, 07:27:57 AM » |
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Hi Troy, hi Jason,
so, it is because of a CAA regulation that ancient wrecks are 90% scrapped and replaced with new parts that could easily have been built without scrapping the old ones? This is sad! For me, the replicas are more welcome if they don't led to destroy the originals. I hope that at least the original parts that can't be used will go to some museum.
Regards
Massimo
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John Thompson
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« Reply #10 on: June 14, 2012, 05:12:41 PM » |
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...there is big business in so called 'data plate' restorations, where there is an existing identity even though 90% of the airframe is new.
Sorry, bit of a rambling post, but I hope a few interesting points.
cheers
T
Reminds me of certain elements of the car restoration business - all you need is the Vehicle Identification Number (serial number) plate from, let's say, a wrecked Boss 429 Mustang, a factory crate motor, and some self-adhesive vinyl trim, and hey presto - Grandma's six-cylinder grocery-getter becomes a very rare and desireable Boss 429 to the unsuspecting buyer. Occasionally they 'fess up and call them "clones" or "tribute cars", but the whole issue of authenticity seems to be a very murky one. Now who's rambling?  John |
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« Last Edit: June 14, 2012, 05:14:53 PM by John Thompson »
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66misos
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« Reply #12 on: December 15, 2012, 08:58:26 AM » |
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Hi Massimo,
nice pictures on that link. Parts of black-green camouflage still visible. However, what are those yellow parts? Primer?
regards,
66misos
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learstang
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« Reply #13 on: December 15, 2012, 05:29:06 PM » |
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Hi Massimo,
nice pictures on that link. Parts of black-green camouflage still visible. However, what are those yellow parts? Primer?
regards,
66misos
66misos, I believe the wooden parts were covered with a fabric impregnated with a yellow nitroputty. On another part of this forum, you can see this on a fragment of a LaGG-3 fuselage preserved in Finland. The bright green below the cockpit may also be a primer, perhaps ALG-1, which was variable in colour, but may have sometimes been an "apple-green". Regards, Jason |
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« Last Edit: December 15, 2012, 05:32:20 PM by learstang »
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"I'll sleep when I'm dead."
- Warren William Zevon
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #14 on: December 16, 2012, 09:03:25 AM » |
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Hi Jason and Misos, I think that we have to look on Russian forums for any comment to the stratification of colors. The general look is brown-black-I suppose this is due to the sedimentation on the surface, that the green is a remain of the original AMT and yellow the original primer. I am surprised for the yellow armour, I wonder if grey paint is gone leaving it clean or it has always been of this color.
Regards
Massimo
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