Sovietwarplanes

Hello,

Does it exist photos of La-5's or La-7 flown by Nikolai M. Skomorokhov ?
I found several photos but none where we can see the number and the type of aircraft on the same picture.

Here is I found:

Probably a La-5F adorned with a lightning bolt in December 1943 (Victory stars apparently retouched)
(http://cdn.topwar.ru/uploads/posts/2015-06/thumbs/1433371810_skomorohov.jpg)

This one, maybe the same as above but victory stars not retouched.
(http://i744.photobucket.com/albums/xx84/le_steph40/Skomorokhov%20N.%20M._3_zpstk9tqxcb.jpg)

A La-5FN (with lightning bolt)
(http://airaces.narod.ru/all15/skomor8.jpg)

Another La-5FN without lightning bolt
(http://s00.yaplakal.com/pics/pics_original/8/3/2/7370238.jpg)

This one adorned also with a lightning bolt, I don't know to identify the aircraft (La-5F, 5FN or La-7? The antenna wires are not very usual)
(http://cs616619.vk.me/v616619192/ccfb/Kldlof5Lx-I.jpg)

And this drawing from http://www.airwar.ru/history/aces/ace2ww/pilots/skomoroh.html (http://www.airwar.ru/history/aces/ace2ww/pilots/skomoroh.html), but I think it could be a confusion with the first photo above
(http://www.airwar.ru/history/aces/ace2ww/pilots/foto/skomor_01.jpg)

It seems that on the photos, the aicrafts are in a AMT11/12 and 7 scheme...
Help very apprecied, TIA
Regards
St?ph.

Hi,
plane n.56 looks to be without aerial mast. The position of the arrow, compared to the star, seems to suggest that it's not any of the planes of the photos above.
Regards
Massimo

Hello,
Finally some info in the French magazine AVIONS N?214.
(http://www.avions-bateaux.com/uploads/attachment/produit/cache/168_204_produit_3024_b57c75e8d26b558ad668b557eab3ca0d.jpg)
The 2 first photos are a LA-5F "silver 19" with 16 victories from 164 IAP/295 IAD during December 1943. The colours are AMT11-12-7. On the 2nd photo, it's Lt G. Oniskevitch climbing aboard Skomorkhov'plane.
The 3rd photo is during Spring 1944 when Skomorokhov was Leader of the "Free Hunt" squadron in the 31 IAP/295 IAD.
And the second to last photo it's a La-5FN "white 56" flown by Skomorokhov in February 1945 in Hungary. The antenna mast was removed to gain some speed and the cables fit directly in the fuselage.

Cheers
Steph.

Hi Steph,
could you show the photos, please?
Regards
Massimo

Here is the new. The others photos are the ones I posted above.

(http://i744.photobucket.com/albums/xx84/le_steph40/IMG_20161031_0003_zps4ntmnexi.jpg)

I am not convinced by the camo in AMT11-12-7. If the number is the good font, I'd say that the camo was AMT4-6-7... Any opinion about that ?

Cheers
St?ph.

Hi Steph,
I agree that the fonts of 19 are uncompatible withthe grey/grey camouflage: I've seen (few) photos of black-green Lavochkins with large fonts and none of grey/grey ones with small fonts. Besides I see that the red star on the fuselage, on the photo, has only a white outline, not a red one, so the plane could have come out from factory without the outline.
The position of the red star is forward as on planes with the wide font of numbers; usually, planes with small fonts had the star moved rearward as LaGG-3s.
A La-5F with stars forward, without white outline from factory, wide numbers could be compatible both with black-green and grey-grey camouflage, and could have been built around june/july 1943. 
The subcession of changes in factory finish looks to be: small to large fonts and move forward of the stars in summer (june?) 1943, grey/grey camouflage in mid july, white-red bordered stars at the beginning of August.
If the black blotch in front of the windshield of the first photo is a real characteristic of the plane and not a defect of the photo, this could be compatible with an extension of the black blotch on the nose sides.
Here i have a page on La-5f, still very rough and  uncomplete and not yet linked from the main page; I'll complete it on next winter. I think you could find something useful anyway.
http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/la5/la5f/la5f.html (http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/la5/la5f/la5f.html)

Regards
Massimo

Hi Massimo,
I didn't notice the position of the star, I agree, I also think it's a large style font. Regarding the black blotch in front of the windscreen, I think it's a defect of the photo. If it was a part of black color, I think we should see the nose in front of the windscreen and a part of the background in light color.
Here is my interpretation... May be the star is white outlined instead of silver and the number could be white with red or blue outlining. What do you think about ?
Thank you for the link about La-5F page, very useful.  :)

(http://i744.photobucket.com/albums/xx84/le_steph40/IMG_20161031_0002_zpsquo4sp5p.jpg)

Regards
Steph

Hi Steph,
I think that the outlines of the numbers should be blue as on the only known wrecks of Lavochkins.  On the photo of 56 they appear markedly darker than the red star.
Is there a way to know the serie number of his plane?
here http://www.warheroes.ru/hero/hero.asp?Hero_id=2 (http://www.warheroes.ru/hero/hero.asp?Hero_id=2) I see him in front of a La-5FN with an apparently red ring, not white. Are you sure that it should be white?
Regards
Massimo

Hi Massimo,
I didn't succed to find the serie number of his plane...
I'm not sure about the white ring. I think the photo is a part of some taken in the same time probably in Hungary late in 1944 and not in February 1945, 31 IAP received La-7 late in December 1944.
(http://waralbum.ru/wp-content/uploads/yapb_cache/hero_skomorokhov.9828zxnddywwo0k4wo0k80wsc.ejcuplo1l0oo0sk8c40s8osc4.th.jpeg)
(http://cs623118.vk.me/v623118989/3ee75/nKL5BGr-n0Q.jpg)
Same clothes and propeller in the same position on the 2 photos.

The only sure thing is the white spinner. I think to build my model (La-5F "White 19" only with white spinner and no red on the cowl.

Regards
St?ph

Hello all,

please excuse my maybe silly question, but I saw on the modified profile you posted last day (the one with the big bort) that you use a different shade of white for the bort and for the white border of the star by example.
Is there any particular reason for the bort to be of a darker shade than the white of the star ?  
(I saw the A-11 sample in the page http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/colors/color-table.html (http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/colors/color-table.html)) with the variation in shade.

Thanks and bests
Dric

Hi,
I've often noticed the dark shade of the numbers. I think that the color aged and reacted with the stains becoming darker. On this plane, the white paint of the number was the oldest one, then the outline of the star was added, then the arrow that has the lighter shade of white.
Regards
Massimo

Hello,

I allow myself to go back up this old thread to get your opinion please.
It seems that the first photo in my first post was taken late in December 1943. It means that it was in 164th IAP and not in 31st IAP. Skomorokov joined 31st IAP during April 1944. These 2 units belonged to 295 IAD, it explains the lightning on the fuselage...
Taking all of this into account, shouldn't Skomorokov's mount late in 1943 look like this?
(https://i.servimg.com/u/f80/19/60/73/04/skomor10.jpg)

Any opinion ? TIA, best regards
Stéph

Hi Steph,
my doubt is that a photo showing the 19 hasn't been seen. Where is the information about the number from? Maybe there is written on some biography, but who knows?

Regards
Massimo

Hi Massimo,

Thanks for your reply  :)
I don't if any photos exist regarding "19". Most of the biographies about Skomorokhov talk about this famous "19" apparently flown late in 1943. Maybe pilot/ground crew memories, logbook... I don't know  :(

Regrads
Stéph

Hi Steph,
red noses became very common on Lavochkins in late 1944 to avoid confusion with FW 190.  If your plane is of late 1943, I would leave a white nose.
Regards
Massimo

Thank you Massimo but I'm a little confused with the nose color  ???. I used the informations here http://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/pages/la5/la5/la5-57of164iap/la5-57of164iap.html (http://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/pages/la5/la5/la5-57of164iap/la5-57of164iap.html) and here http://ava.org.ru/iap/164.htm (http://ava.org.ru/iap/164.htm) which suggest red nose.

Thanks to enlighten me, regards.
Stéph

Hi Steph,
I would know where the information on the white nose comes from. I wouldn't use the profile of n.57 as a reference for the nose if there are other contrasting informations, you can see that the photo of that plane is very dark on the nose and other interpretations are possible.
Photos of other La-5F of 31 iap and 116 iap, same division and timeframe, seem to suggest a white spinner and camouflaged ring.
Regards
Massimo

Still thank you Massimo  :)
So, I corrected the illustration, Skomorokhov mount late in 1943 (as "most" probable)...
(https://i.servimg.com/u/f80/19/60/73/04/skomor11.jpg)

Still thank you for your help and knowledge, regards  :)
Stéph

You're welcome Steph, I hope that we won't find contrasting informations in future, if you have a model to paint. It's always a risk.
Now I'm wondering what to do with the profile of 57, the red nose in 1943 doesn't seem supported by photos of other planes of the division. Perhaps the ring is missing in the photo and what we see is a black hole with the engine only.
Regards
Massimo

Hello MAssimo,

Here is the last infos that Mr Stankov gave to me yesterday regarding this aircraft:

164 IAP (295 IAD). La-5F No.39210719, #19 flown by Lieutenant Skomorokhov N.M., aircraft mechanic: senior sergeant P. Martyushev.
La-5F #19 took part in the battles near Kharkov, Belgorod, Kursk, again Kharkov, Zaporozhye, Nikopol from March 1943 until March 1944.
Airbase:
Lower Duvanka airfield (from 03.1943-),
Kremennaya airfield (from 08/23/1943 -),
Gemini airfield (from 09.1943 -),
Sinelnikovo airfield (from 09.1943-),
Solenoe airfield (from 12.1943 -)

With these informations, this aircraft was very probably delivered in AMT4/6/7 camo. Looking at the photo taken late in 1943, maybe this aircraft was repainted in AMT11/12...
Mr Stankov thinks there was only one diagonal white stripe on the vertical tail. He thinks the white stripes on vertical tails were squadron markings in 164 IAP, not unit markings of 295 IAD (31, 116 & 164 IAP)... => So another point to clarify...!!!  ;D

Regards
Stéph

Hi Steph,
looking at available photos of 31 iap, you can see one line. http://ava.org.ru/iap/31.htm (http://ava.org.ru/iap/31.htm)
In 116 iap. 2 lines, http://ava.org.ru/iap/116.htm (http://ava.org.ru/iap/116.htm)
in 164 iap, 3 lines http://ava.org.ru/iap/164.htm (http://ava.org.ru/iap/164.htm)
So it was a regimental marking inside the division.
If the plane was delivered in March 1943, surely its camo was black and green, at least in origin. Probably the number font were small too. I don't know about successive repaintings.
Regards
Massimo

Was interesting to read this thread.  Thanks for the discussion:) Will be great to find some memoirs or other literature/documents where the number of this plane can be confirmed.  My small contribution:

I believe Massimo is correct.

About the spinner colour,
on ava.org.ru it's been suggested that the spinners of the three regiments mentioned above might have been:

White- 116th IAP
Blue - 31st IAP
Red - 164th IAP

If this is correct, then Skomorohov's plane,  while it belonged to the 164th IAP, might have had a red spinner.

And Steph,  as I already mentioned about the lightning/arrow - in my opinion the emblem of the 295th IAD was an arrow in the shape of a lightning. Meaning that the shaft was probably the same thickness throughout (like a shaft of an arrow), and had an arrow-like tail on the end of it.  This image shows the end of the (lightning)arrow well (http://ava.org.ru/iap/116/la5f-37-1943.jpg). Also,  the tails of most of the lightnings/arrows in 295th IAD seem to be extended past the number,  so chances are that White-19's arrow's tail extended past the number too.

About the initial colour of the plane,  it's hard to tell from the info that A.Stankov provided, because there seems to be a discrepancy. If the serial number of this plane was 39210719 that means that it was a type 39 plane of the 7th series. 7th series,  in theory were  built in autumn of 1943.  Which means that this plane could not have existed yet in spring and summer of 1943. And if it was built in autumn then it would have been given a grey/grey camouflage at the factory since the factories switched to this camo scheme in July 1943.

It's worth noting that the plane in the photo attached above seems to have a green/black camouflage. So maybe Skomorohov's plane was painted green/black after all,  but the serial number that we are using as reference is wrong?

Hi,
if the aim is to reproduce the plane with starlets of the first photo of the thread, now I see that the frames of the rear window visible thorough the sliding hood are different from those of the second photo that is a 'bubble' canopy, so I think that the plane is a razorback La-5.
Regards
Massimo

Hi, Steph can't reply here, he has done on https://ww2aircraft.net/forum/threads/240-iap-la-5f-fn.57269/page-3#post-1697351  (https://ww2aircraft.net/forum/threads/240-iap-la-5f-fn.57269/page-3#post-1697351)  puntualising that the horizontal frame of the windshield is typical of La-5F/FN, not of razorback ones.

Hi Steph hi Anton, I see, you are right about the frame. This gives a further suggestion: the La-5F has to be of early production, without jettisonable rails, to justify the difference of height of the rear frame visible through the opened sliding hood. This encourages to think that the factory painting was black and green, but it could have been repainted grey later. The star is in forward position, so the numbers have to be big.
Regards
Massimo

Hello,

Yes ! I can reply  :) :D
Allow me to post here the last version of the "probable" La-5F "white 19" flown by N. Skomorokhov late in 1943.
(https://ww2aircraft.net/forum/attachments/skomorokhov-n-m-decembre-1943-probable_1-jpg.652684/)

Thanks to Massimo and Anton for their help and knowledge  :)

Hi Steph,
welcome again. I'm happy that you managed to post, I hope that there won't be these difficulties again but they are out of my control.
Nice profile indeed.
Regards
Massimo

A much needed profile  and it looks great too:)  considering the caliber of the pilot that flew it I am surprised that so little info exists about this airplane.  Good on you Steph for tackling this subject  and for producing a well researched and beautifully looking result. well done!:)