66misos
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« Reply #45 on: March 14, 2014, 01:29:51 PM » |
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Hi Remco,
may be you could consider yellow ALG-1 primer on metal parts and/or yellow nitroputty on wooden/fabric surfaces firstly. Plus, dark AMT-12 was sprayed firstly, AMT-11 after that.
66misos
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4bogreen
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« Reply #46 on: March 14, 2014, 04:20:10 PM » |
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@ 66misos, Yep, i was wrong... Just read that AMT-12 was the "basecolor". Good that you mention it I think i can make some yellow shine thro, while fading. Although i read that the wood parts must kept in mint condition. Did you see wood or primer, then they painted it (sorry comrade capitan, my wing has rotten off... I can not fly now...). So, AMT-12 is first
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On the bench, -Eduard 1/48 Messerschmitt BF109E-4 ZG-1 -Eduard 1/48 Spitfire MK.Vb 57 GIAP, Kuban
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KL
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« Reply #47 on: March 14, 2014, 06:47:00 PM » |
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@ 66misos, Yep, i was wrong... Just read that AMT-12 was the "basecolor". Good that you mention it So, AMT-12 is first Yes and no... AMT-12 was first, but it wasn't the "basecolor". The sequence for fabric (on upper surfaces only) was: 1. silver 2. AMT-12 3. AMT-11 4. AMT-12 camouflage HTH, KL
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66misos
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« Reply #48 on: March 14, 2014, 08:37:49 PM » |
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hi KL,
didn't they use yellow nitroputty on the wood and fabric under grey-grey scheme? There is a lot of yellow scratches on the recovered Lagg-3 and Mig-3 wings in Finland.
66misos
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KL
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« Reply #49 on: March 14, 2014, 08:52:10 PM » |
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Yes, yellow nitro putty was used primarily to glue fabric to wood and to level the surface after gluing. I have listed paints that were applied overthe fabric. Nitro putty wasn't waterproof, so it wasn't normally left exposed to the elements.
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4bogreen
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« Reply #50 on: March 14, 2014, 09:36:14 PM » |
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Wow guys!
Perfect input here! Thanks! So, if i stick to my original plan, it Will be OK?
Questions... 1- why was silver used as a "basecolor"? I thought that they used it in the LaGG-3 and some early MiG-3s and early Yak-1s... Was it also still used on the La-5F? 2- was the "yellow" nitroputty and "zink chome yellow/apple green" color visible throu the AMT colors? As i read the maintenance rapports, damaged wooden parts that shows wood and primer, should be painted immediately... The aluminium parts were mostly a bit chipped and damaged. Aluminium does not rust, so it needs "less" maintenance.
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On the bench, -Eduard 1/48 Messerschmitt BF109E-4 ZG-1 -Eduard 1/48 Spitfire MK.Vb 57 GIAP, Kuban
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66misos
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« Reply #51 on: March 14, 2014, 09:42:40 PM » |
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so if I understand correctly, then: - on metal should be (from bottom to top): metal - yellow ALG-1 - AMT-12 - AMT-11, - on wood/fabric: wood - yellow nitroputty - (fabric) - yellow nitroputty - silver as UV protection - AMT-12 - AMT-11. interesting, but here are no traces of silver http://sovietwarplanes.com/board/index.php?topic=1194.msg7550#msg7550
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KL
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« Reply #52 on: March 14, 2014, 10:24:26 PM » |
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1- why was silver used as a "basecolor"? I thought that they used it in the LaGG-3 and some early MiG-3s and early Yak-1s... Was it also still used on the La-5F? 2- was the "yellow" nitroputty and "zink chome yellow/apple green" color visible throu the AMT colors?
1. Silver "AII Aluminium" was there to reflect UV light and protect fabric undernith. It was overpainted with camouflage colours. Practice probably started in 1940/41, definitivelly discontinued in first couple of war years and then reinstated. Probably reinstated because of the many cases when fabric separated from wood (described by A.S. Yakovlev) in 1942/43. 2. not on planes and fragments preserved in museums - on metal should be (from bottom to top): metal - yellow ALG-1 - AMT-12 - AMT-11, - on wood/fabric: wood - yellow nitroputty - (fabric) - yellow nitroputty - silver as UV protection - AMT-12 - AMT-11.
- on metal: yellow ALG-1 - AMT-11 - AMT-12 (camouflage fields) - on wood: yellow nitroputty - fabric - yellow nitroputty - silver ?AII Aluminium? - AMT-12 (overall) - AMT-11 (overall) ? AMT-12 (camouflage fields) Fabric covered fuselage and wings were painted before final assembly. Dark gray AMT-12 camouflage fields were thinly sprayed after final assembly. All above from Yak-3 restoration?
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #53 on: March 15, 2014, 02:56:17 PM » |
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Hi, Practice probably started in 1940/41 Probably the use of aluminium dope was older, since the '30s. Many planes of 1938/40 had silver fabric covered surfaces (or undersurfaces) and grey (or silver) painted metal surfaces (or undersurfaces). The only justification for this is to spare grey paint when the fabric has anyway to be painted aluminium to be protected. 2- was the "yellow" nitroputty and "zink chome yellow/apple green" color visible throu the AMT colors? Perhaps. In 1942, factories reduced from two to one the layers of green to spare paint. This could cause the green appearing a bit lighter in 1942 than in 1941. This could justify the strong contrast between green and black on some types of 1942 as many Yaks. Regards Massimo
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KL
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« Reply #54 on: March 15, 2014, 07:09:14 PM » |
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Practice probably started in 1940/41 Probably the use of aluminium dope was older, since the '30s. Many planes of 1938/40 had silver fabric covered surfaces (or undersurfaces) and grey (or silver) painted metal surfaces (or undersurfaces). The only justification for this is to spare grey paint when the fabric has anyway to be painted aluminium to be protected. - I am talking about the silver underlaying AII or AMT nitro paints. Based on preserved planes and fragments, it looks now that the wide application of AII Aluminium as UV protection started sometimes later during the war. - Silver AII Aluminum existed throughout 1930es, probably in 1920es. It was used as exterior paint (for example on civilian planes), not as UV protection. - There were some other reasons for that gray-on-metal+silver-on-fabric combination. Not aesthetics, not to save gray paint. In 1942, factories reduced from two to one the layers of green to spare paint. This could cause the green appearing a bit lighter in 1942 than in 1941. This could justify the strong contrast between green and black on some types of 1942 as many Yaks.
Interesting explanation for "tractor green". IMHO, contrast is a purely photograhic problem. Gray-Gray camouflage on the same plane sometimes looks very contrasting, sometimes low contrasting.... nowdays you can play with contrast in Photoshop.
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« Last Edit: March 15, 2014, 07:22:32 PM by KL »
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #55 on: March 15, 2014, 08:26:45 PM » |
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There were some other reasons for that gray-on-metal+silver-on-fabric combination. Not aesthetics, not to save gray paint. Maybe to save aluminium paint on metallic parts? Silver AII Aluminum existed throughout 1930es, probably in 1920es. It was used as exterior paint (for example on civilian planes), not as UV protection. But wasn't fabric weakened by UV rays in 1930s too? nowdays you can play with contrast in Photoshop. True, but it changes the background too. Regards Massimo
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« Last Edit: March 15, 2014, 08:31:11 PM by Massimo Tessitori »
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4bogreen
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« Reply #56 on: March 19, 2014, 05:08:12 AM » |
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Hey guys,
I am busy painting, but witch color was the landing gear/ wheelbay?? Sometimes A-14, sometimes AMT-7... My first experience with Akan paint is...great! Is sprays like a dream. No thick paint in the airbrush, only the cleaning was a bit more than i used to be. Vallejo paint cleans out better...but Akan sprays better... I think that i paint the AMT-7 thonight :-)
Regards,
Remco
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On the bench, -Eduard 1/48 Messerschmitt BF109E-4 ZG-1 -Eduard 1/48 Spitfire MK.Vb 57 GIAP, Kuban
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4bogreen
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« Reply #57 on: March 23, 2014, 08:09:20 PM » |
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Hey guys!
Painting is going slow, but great! Some gaps i had to fill, like the oilcooler. This part i had to paint seperatly. You see whats inside. I have almost finnished the basecolor, so photos will follow soon. Soon i will start the gloss basecoat to protect the Akan colors against weathering. Next are the wheel wells and landing gear...
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On the bench, -Eduard 1/48 Messerschmitt BF109E-4 ZG-1 -Eduard 1/48 Spitfire MK.Vb 57 GIAP, Kuban
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4bogreen
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« Reply #58 on: March 26, 2014, 07:35:06 PM » |
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Painting in progress!
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On the bench, -Eduard 1/48 Messerschmitt BF109E-4 ZG-1 -Eduard 1/48 Spitfire MK.Vb 57 GIAP, Kuban
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #59 on: March 27, 2014, 08:52:34 AM » |
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Hi Remco, good work. Are the struts inside the flaps bay made by you or from the kit? Regards Massimo
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