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Title: I.U. Pavlov's I-4 Post by: Javier Planells on April 20, 2011, 05:53:33 AM Hi guys,
I've seen a link posted here by John Thompson, about VVS early markings, and in it, Pavlov's overturned I-4 got my attention for a modeling project. Here's the image: (http://retrospicere.narod.ru/library-books_images/book998-pic88.jpg) Now, the issue is this. What model of I-4 are we talking about? Is it a pre-production machine or a series fighter? I'm leaning towards the second option, since it seems to have the main production cowling fairings. But I can't make up the fin and rudder shapes. What do you think? Could it be the razor shaped fin and rudder from the prototype or the later, higher, mass balanced one? About the colour scheme, looks like aluminum paint all-over. May be the rudder, and fin for this one, were red as in Pavlov's later machines, for the sake of a white or silver arrow? Any thoughts on stars locations and number? Your comments will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance, Javier Title: Re: I.U. Pavlov's I-4 Post by: Massimo Tessitori on April 20, 2011, 08:32:39 AM Hi Javier,
I'm not an expert of this type, but I've found an unsuspected mess of documents on my hd. Unfortunately I didn't see photos of the same plane, but it has a relatively small diameter spinner and fairings on the cylinders, so I suppose that it's a production plane with flat-top rudder. Besides, should it be razor-shaped, the rudder should enter 20 or 30 cm in the ground, and this looks difficult without bending in some way. Please, let me know what documents you have on the type, and I'll try to see if I have further ones to add. Regards Massimo Title: Re: I.U. Pavlov's I-4 Post by: KL on April 20, 2011, 07:17:20 PM Javier, :)
more about I-4 at: http://www.i4tup.narod.ru/ Check underlined words for more text and photos. I-4 in VVS service: http://www.i4tup.narod.ru/expluatatia.html I-4 in Your photo is the first series machine. About colours and markings: Одна из оставшихся фотографий изображает скапотировавший личный самолет начальника ВВС Московского военного округа героя Гражданской войны И.У. Павлова, персональные машины которого имели нестандартную окраску и индивидуальные эмблемы. Все поверхности истребителя цвета натурального алюминия, скорее всего, судя по отсутствию сколов краски, без которых не обошлась бы видимая на фотографии деформация кока винта, были вообще не окрашены. Звезды в 4 позициях на верхней и нижней поверхностях верхнего крыла, по бортам фюзеляжа за кабиной красные вымпелы с белой надписью ?За ВКП(б)?. Полностью окрашенный в красный цвет руль поворота нес изображение белой изогнутой стрелы, позаимствованное Павловым из эмблематики 1-й боевой авиагруппы, в которой служил в годы Первой мировой. Лопасти винта окрашены черной краской за исключением усиливающих накладок, которые сохранили цвет натурального металла. Следует отметить, что на этом самолете, в отличие от других персональных машин Павлова, стойки не были окрашены в красный цвет, а также отсутствовали точки после букв ?ВКП? на вымпеле. Cheers, KL Title: Re: I.U. Pavlov's I-4 Post by: Javier Planells on April 21, 2011, 01:14:03 AM Hi Massimo and KL,
I agree with you on the matter of it being a production machine. On the scheme description it says "four stars on wings and a small one behind the flag, but there's no trace of it in the picture. So I guess that's a no-no. About the wing stars, what would be your opinion? Plain stars or the "star in circle" variant? About documents, only things I have are pictures found in the Internet, along with some detail plans from a russian site. It was just a couple of days ago I found this picture and it blew my mind, be cause of the unusual scheme. Thanks for your help, guys! Javier Title: Re: I.U. Pavlov's I-4 Post by: Massimo Tessitori on April 21, 2011, 07:49:23 AM Hi Konstantin and Javier,
this is a really interesting site. For this machine, it's clear that there is no star on the fuselage. For operative machines, it is questionable, it doesn't appear but it could be due to the low contrast and particular surface. I think that the stars are of plain type, for what I see on photos. About operative I-4, the undersurfaces look silver to my eye. The corrugations looks too evident for a light blue surface on shadow. A complain for the model is the too wide spinner, for a production machine, but I fear that it's too difficult to be corrected. Regards Massimo Title: Re: I.U. Pavlov's I-4 Post by: KL on April 21, 2011, 09:02:24 AM Fuselage stars are not mentioned... :)
Translation: One of the surviving photos shows turned over personal plane of the Moscow Military District Air Force Commander, hero of the civil war, I.U. Pavlov. His personal planes had nonstandard scheme and individual markings. All surfaces of this fighter were unfinished aluminium colour, probably, since there is no visible paint damage on the deformed propeller spinner. Four stars on top and undersurfaces of the upper wing. Red flags with white ?For VKP(b)? text were painted on fuselage sides behind cockpit. Rudder was solid red and had white bent arrow painted on it, this symbol Pavlov borrowed from 1st Combat Air Group in which he served during WWI. Propeller blades were painted in black except the metal leading edge protection stripes. It should be noted that unlike other Pavlov?s personal planes, landing gear legs of this plane were not painted red and there were no full stops after letters VKP. This I-4 is similar to (http://vvs.hobbyvista.com/Modeling/Polikarpov/I-5/ICM/Preview/I-5_box2.jpg) (http://www.cybermodeler.com/hobby/kits/icm/images/icm_72062_title.jpg) Cheers, KL Title: Re: I.U. Pavlov's I-4 Post by: Javier Planells on May 06, 2011, 02:08:56 AM Hi Guys!
Thanks for the answers, they really clarify the matter. I think this makes for a most handsome I-4. Sorry for the long delay in showing up. Job's getting the best of me :( Thanks again! Title: Re: I.U. Pavlov's I-4 Post by: Massimo Tessitori on May 06, 2011, 07:15:55 AM Hi Javier,
you're welcome. Please, keep us informed about your model. Regards Massimo |