Sovietwarplanes

First of all, congratulation Massimo for your update in the VVS colours section, it's really interesting and great!

well, if I understand, in this famous plane:

(http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/colors/1941-43rep/i16strokes.jpg)

the green was applied late, and even if we have no pics of it, we can quite surely represent this plane without the green, just like the plane of the second pic; it had to be like that at the begining):

(http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/colors/1937-40/i-16silver1a.jpg)

so I would have to paint the metal part in light grey and the other in silver...

well in this picture metal pieces are represent in silver wood in brown and cloth in green.

(http://nsm05.casimages.com/img/2011/05/22//110522124257534318194349.jpg) (http://www.casimages.com)

Did the cloth covered all the A part of the wing, just the green part (C) or all the wing (B)?

this could be a project of model...

You surely have not the answer, but do you imagine this plane was in a training school since the begining?

Xan

Hi Xan,  :)
We surely have the answer for plane No 1:  It was photographed at the Pruzhani airfield in Belaruss and it belonged to 33 IAP (33rd Fighter Regiment).  Experts on this subject have figured that this was actually regiment commander's plane!

You got it right, between 1937 and 1940 only 3 colours were in use: green, gray and silver.
But, those two I-16 were more likely overall gray!!!  More precisely AE-9 gray for metal parts and AII Gray for fabric/plywood.  :o

Reasons/sources:
1.   I-16 Type 10 manual from 1939, scans available on the net, specifies gray nitro paint for lower surfaces.
2.   Maslov in his last I-16 book explaines that undersurfaces were painted in gray and then coated with transparent nitro varnish.

So my guess for fancy No 1 is: gray for metal parts and varnished gray for fabric covered parts!!!  The transparent varnish makes the difference between the two.

I wonder what did Pilawskii say for this I-16??? ;)

Cheers,
KL

 

Hi Xan, hi Konstantin
this scheme and information are very interesting, thank you for posting.
To tell the truth, I have to observe carefully the photos to detect any discontinuity of color on the wings, at half of the chord. The difference is evident in cowling and landing gear doors, but it appears difficult to be detected over the wings. It could really be a two-gray plane... but the look of the rear part is more silver-ish than the nose to my eye. Perhaps the rear part is more glossy only.
Regards
Massimo

Hello:

Thanks Konstantin for the useful information.
Xan,regarding the pictures of the "naked" I-16,as far as I know (and I would like that someone corrects me if I?m wrong) the skin of the wings including the leading edges and wing root fairings,are made of wood not metal.
Greetings.

Martin

Hi Martin,  :)

Wing leadin edge was metal skinned. Large wingroot fairing towards the tail was plywood skinned.

Cheers,
KL

Those are interesting drawings of the different skinning materials on the Ishak.  I attempted the same thing with the IL-2.  I could post my drawings on another thread, if anyone's interested.

Regards,

Jason

Thanks for your answer Konstantin,greetings.

Martin

Hi Xan,

your "well known I-16" definitely belonged to a combat unit, not a training unit.  It was captured and photographed at the Lutsk airfield.

In June 1941 there were based 14th SAD (Mixed Air Division) command and 89 IAP (Fighter Regiment).  89 IAP's I-16s Type 28 had distinctive lightning on their tails.

It's not clear wheather your I-16 Type 10 belonged to the 14th SAD command, 89 IAP or some other unit that was incorporated in 14th SAD.

(http://jpe.ru/1/max/040410/03s2sf4vk1.jpg)

(http://i073.radikal.ru/1004/22/4bec05caced7.jpg)

(http://s51.radikal.ru/i131/1009/7f/8b623dfc72a5.jpg)

Also at Lutsk, 17 IAP I-153:

(http://shot.photo.qip.ru/102J7TG.jpg)

Cheers,,
KL

Excellent photos, KL - I've never seen some of those before. Thank you!

John

Hi Konstantin,
I can't see the first two photos. Could you repost them, please?
Regards
Massimo

Hi konstantin, abd think you for those pacs, I didn't know them, and I never did the link btween this plane and the I-16 with lightning in the tail.
searching in scale model.ru, i find those two one i neither din't know:

(http://nsm05.casimages.com/img/2011/05/25//110525092751534318216528.jpg) (http://www.casimages.com)
interesting to do a open motor model
and this one I finf very beautyfull:

(http://nsm05.casimages.com/img/2011/05/25//110525092615534318216513.jpg) (http://www.casimages.com)

Xan

I find this one too:

http://s3.postimage.org/46kv3x7ad/Screenshot_507.jpg (http://s3.postimage.org/46kv3x7ad/Screenshot_507.jpg)

build a diorama of the cementery would be a quite beautyfull challenge!

Xan

Specially for our friend Xan and ?French Connection?:

1935 to mid-1937:  Old ?Prtective Green? + old ?Light Blue?
(http://i16fighter.ru/mods/t5/sm_t5c1.jpg)

Late 1937 to early 1938?:  overall gray or gray+silver???
(http://i16fighter.ru/mods/t10/sm_t10c2.jpg)

1938 to mid-1940 (probably the majority of I-16s!):  AII ?Protective? Green + AII Gray
(http://i16fighter.ru/usage/khgol/sm_i16t17.jpg)

Mid-1940 to mid-1941:  AII ?Protective? Green + AII Light Blue
(http://i16fighter.ru/mods/t29/t29c7.jpg)

From mid-1941:  Field applied black-green camouflage
(http://i16fighter.ru/mods/t17/sm_t17c1.jpg)

Winter 1941-42:
(http://i16fighter.ru/mods/t10/sm_t10c8.jpg) (http://i16fighter.ru/mods/t24/sm_t24c6.jpg)


1938 aerobatic group ?Krasnaya Pyaterka?:
(http://i16fighter.ru/mods/t10/sm_t10c1_2.jpg)

1940 aerobatic group ?Krasnaya Pyaterka?:
(http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/i16/bert/100_5683a.jpg)

Thanks, KL - I think I'll print that out and pin it up over my workbench! ;)

John

Another example of field-applied camouflage on I-16:

(http://s2.postimage.org/lsw5wuuc/PDVD_051.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/lsw5wuuc/)

(From prokhor's second post of June 7 in this thread:
http://scalemodels.ru/modules/forum/viewtopic_t_6048_start_320.html

Several interesting movie stills are included - numerous MiG-3's and details, a closeup of an I-153 cowling, etc.)

John

Oh my god! big brother is watching me!!!

Think you for the precisions, I will transmit at once!

I'm confused, I did this explication at work today, adn I knew it wasn't very precise, but I thought it will be didactic...

At least you can see we are trying to teach what we learn here!

Gretsch is my friend Pascal in this forum.

badger is a great modeler and i'm quite proud to be able to help him.

Xan

Xan, I have so many bits and pieces of I-16's and I-153's that I've thought about doing a diorama of "Barbarossa Victims".  They're so small in 1/72nd scale that the diorama would fit into a fairly small display case.

Regards,

Jason

Hi all,
I would add that some/many (I don't know) had silver on their wood/fabric covered parts.
(http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/colors/1937-40/I-16uti.jpg)

Very interesting images, thank you for posting.
There are other known photos of I-16s with splinter camo, I wonder if they are from the same unit.
(http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/colors/1941-43rep/i16splin.jpg)
(http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/colors/1941-43rep/i16camoredstar.jpg)
Regards
Massimo

Hi Xan,  :)
you are doing great job!!!
Good to see French modelers are still interested in GPW planes.  ;) (I know they always were; N-N pilots and their Yaks, 2 unique Soviet planes in Musee de l'Air, etc )


I was really worried that Musee de l'Air I-153 may end-up restored in colours like this:

(http://organicsathome.ca/prodimages/limes.jpg)
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm13/klesnikov/Modeling%20Aircraft%20of%20the%20Sov%20VVS/I-153Green-DarkGreenscheme.jpg)

SAFFC author is considered as an authority, he has already participated in some restoration projects...

Cheers,
KL

I don't know, Konstantin, I kind of like that scheme.  Maybe I can use my WEM Tractor Green for this.

Regards,

Jason

One of my books has a little information on this plane.

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/I-16%20Russian/img020.jpg)

Also could you tell me the book for the 33 IAP identification of this I-16 I think I would like to get that one.

source of my info is internet, not a book  ::)
It comes from M. Timin, he is a reliable author, a real expert.

Author of your book is E. Pilawskii, known as a totally unreliable source  :-X

Thank you KL for the reply.
 

I-16 with VVS emblem was photographed at Lutsk airfield with 89 iap planes.  It's funny  :D how Pilawskii can't recognize VVS emblem; for him it's an "interesting winged badge"  ;D

Silver I-16 tail No 1 was photographed at Pruzhani airfield and belonged to 33 iap.

KL