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Great Patriotic War Aviation => Captured planes in Soviet markings => Topic started by: marluc on June 13, 2011, 06:02:02 PM



Title: Captured Bf-109F,Hasegawa 1/48
Post by: marluc on June 13, 2011, 06:02:02 PM
Hello:

This is a project I?ve started a year ago,I?ll finish the 1/48 Hasegawa Bf-109F in the markings of the Messerscmitt bellow:

(http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z27/marluc_foto/Bf-109%20capturado_Hase48/Bf109F2_VVS1.jpg)

(http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z27/marluc_foto/Bf-109%20capturado_Hase48/013ussr05.jpg)
This was Bf-109 F-2 WNr 9692 ?Black 16? flown by Oblt. Anton Nieb,Stafellkapitan of 8./JG51,that was forced down after suffering damage to its cooling system on 22 February,1942.I was repaired and tested by the TsAGI. (Source ?The Messerscmitt Bf-109,Part 2:?F? to ?K? variants?;Modellers Datafile 10,SAM Publications)
Quoting another source,on 22 February 1942 Ober-Lieutnant A. Niss, commander of the JG51 Squadron's 8th Detachment, got lost and was fired on from a machine gun near Tushino Airfield. His radiator and fuel tank were damaged and the German officer was forced to land within Soviet troop unit positions.Captured by Red Army soldiers, the fighter was quickly restored by technical personnel from the 47th Aviation Division based in Tushino, but the first flight of the captured Messerschmitt ended in a crash landing. The right undercarriage leg and wing tip were broken. The machine had to undergo one more repair (this time by a TsAGI team) and then Me 109F No. 9209 was handed over to the Air Forces Scientific Research Institute for comprehensive testing. Engineer-Captain A. S. Rozanov, one of the institute's foremost experts on German aircraft, accepted the bird.

The paint scheme was discussed here: http://sovietwarplanes.com/board/index.php?topic=828.0

As it is not a soviet plane I won?t show the building process.I?ve detailed the cockpit interior,landing gears and separated the tail control surfaces.

(http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z27/marluc_foto/Bf-109%20capturado_Hase48/DSC03509.jpg)

(http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z27/marluc_foto/Bf-109%20capturado_Hase48/DSC04051.jpg)

(http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z27/marluc_foto/Bf-109%20capturado_Hase48/DSC055452-1.jpg)

(http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z27/marluc_foto/Bf-109%20capturado_Hase48/DSC055512.jpg)
The paintjob started:

(http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z27/marluc_foto/Bf-109%20capturado_Hase48/DSC068022.jpg)

(http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z27/marluc_foto/Bf-109%20capturado_Hase48/DSC068032-1.jpg)

For the underside I used Humbrol H89 as recommended by Massimo,but mixed with a few drops of H65.

(http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z27/marluc_foto/Bf-109%20capturado_Hase48/DSC003252-1.jpg)

The rudder is in Humbrol H80.
Hope you like,comments are very welcomed.Greetings.

Martin



Title: Re: Captured Bf-109F,Hasegawa 1/48
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on June 13, 2011, 06:24:56 PM
Hi Martin,
it looks to grow up well. A yellow rudder... will you let some yellow transpare through the layer of green?
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: Captured Bf-109F,Hasegawa 1/48
Post by: John Thompson on June 13, 2011, 09:57:26 PM
Well, at least it has red stars on it - that always makes a Bf-109 look better! ;) Nice work on the cockpit, and the preshading on the undersides looks just right! I notice too that you have a very neat jig for holding the model while painting it - looks like something that could be made from leftover sprues. Another project!

Cheers;
John


Title: Re: Captured Bf-109F,Hasegawa 1/48
Post by: learstang on June 13, 2011, 11:14:04 PM
Very nice work, Martin!  That reminds me that I'd like to do the FW-190 that was re-engined with an ASh-82FN.

Regards,

Jason


Title: Re: Captured Bf-109F,Hasegawa 1/48
Post by: marluc on June 13, 2011, 11:39:15 PM
Massimo,John and Jason,thanks for your very kind words.

A yellow rudder... will you let some yellow transpare through the layer of green?
I would like to make the underlying german paint scheme and markings show through the new paint,but I prefer to make it simple due to a lack of free time,it will be just the light blue/green and red stars.

John,it?s the first time I make a preshading,I used the H89 with a few drops of dark grey over a first layer of H89.The jig is a (not exact) copy of one I saw in a forum.

Quote from: learstang
That reminds me that I'd like to do the FW-190 that was re-engined with an ASh-82FN.
Very interesting!!!! Was it actually done? I saw a resin conversion in 1/48 and thought it was for a "what if".

Greetings.

Martin


Title: Re: Captured Bf-109F,Hasegawa 1/48
Post by: marluc on June 15, 2011, 01:31:14 AM
I?ve edited the first message with the historical background of the Bf-109F.Greetings.

Martin


Title: Re: Captured Bf-109F,Hasegawa 1/48
Post by: learstang on June 15, 2011, 06:58:39 PM

Quote from: learstang
That reminds me that I'd like to do the FW-190 that was re-engined with an ASh-82FN.
Very interesting!!!! Was it actually done? I saw a resin conversion in 1/48 and thought it was for a "what if".

Greetings.

Martin


Martin, yes, it was apparently done.  I'll try and find some profiles and preferably actual photographs of the converted aircraft.  I didn't realise someone had done a conversion set in 1/48th scale.  I suppose it wouldn't be too difficult to do the conversion in 1/72nd scale (famous last words!).

Regards,

Jason


Title: Re: Captured Bf-109F,Hasegawa 1/48
Post by: marluc on December 26, 2012, 04:18:14 PM
Hello.

I?ve been working on this Bf-109 from time to time,and I?m not very pleased with it.

(http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z27/marluc_foto/Bf-109%20capturado_Hase48/th_DSC02527.jpg) (http://s195.photobucket.com/albums/z27/marluc_foto/Bf-109%20capturado_Hase48/?action=view&current=DSC02527.jpg) (http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z27/marluc_foto/Bf-109%20capturado_Hase48/th_DSC02524.jpg) (http://s195.photobucket.com/albums/z27/marluc_foto/Bf-109%20capturado_Hase48/?action=view&current=DSC02524.jpg) (http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z27/marluc_foto/Bf-109%20capturado_Hase48/th_DSC02523.jpg) (http://s195.photobucket.com/albums/z27/marluc_foto/Bf-109%20capturado_Hase48/?action=view&current=DSC02523.jpg) (http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z27/marluc_foto/Bf-109%20capturado_Hase48/th_DSC02521.jpg) (http://s195.photobucket.com/albums/z27/marluc_foto/Bf-109%20capturado_Hase48/?action=view&current=DSC02521.jpg) (http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z27/marluc_foto/Bf-109%20capturado_Hase48/th_DSC02516.jpg) (http://s195.photobucket.com/albums/z27/marluc_foto/Bf-109%20capturado_Hase48/?action=view&current=DSC02516.jpg)

The colors are green Humbrol Hu80 and light blue Hu89,with preshading in light and dark colours.Decals are on and panel lines has a wash of oil paint.During handling,one of the radiator flaps was broken but it was glued in its place after the photo was taken.One note regarding the decals,they are from the set of CAM,"Soviet/Russian Insignia Part 1" and they are off register,something you notice once they are on the plane.You can see a thin white line on one side of the red stars,and I was not able to replace them,it?s very frustating...

Landing gear leg and propeller.

(http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z27/marluc_foto/Bf-109%20capturado_Hase48/th_DSC02529.jpg) (http://s195.photobucket.com/albums/z27/marluc_foto/Bf-109%20capturado_Hase48/?action=view&current=DSC02529.jpg) (http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z27/marluc_foto/Bf-109%20capturado_Hase48/th_DSC02531.jpg) (http://s195.photobucket.com/albums/z27/marluc_foto/Bf-109%20capturado_Hase48/?action=view&current=DSC02531.jpg)

Comments are very welcomed,greetings.

Martin


Title: Re: Captured Bf-109F,Hasegawa 1/48
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on December 26, 2012, 05:05:02 PM
Hi Martin,
it's a nice model anyway.
I'm wondering how can be done for the white line on the stars. Maybe a retouch with thinned red by brush to make them less visible?
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: Captured Bf-109F,Hasegawa 1/48
Post by: Walker on December 27, 2012, 12:03:35 AM
Well, what would you say about this photo?

(http://storage6.static.itmages.ru/i/12/1227/s_1356562937_7604771_953b8ecd33.jpeg) (http://itmages.ru/image/view/820467/953b8ecd)


Title: Re: Captured Bf-109F,Hasegawa 1/48
Post by: learstang on December 27, 2012, 01:14:21 AM
The rear fuselage is obviously repainted, probably in AMT-4(?), with plain red stars.  I would suppose that the underwing crosses were overpainted in AMT-7, but it's hard to tell about the topsides markings.

Regards,

Jason


Title: Re: Captured Bf-109F,Hasegawa 1/48
Post by: JP on December 27, 2012, 05:37:38 AM
A VERY interesting image.  I think I see the point of a star on the top of the near wing.


Title: Re: Captured Bf-109F,Hasegawa 1/48
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on December 27, 2012, 08:41:41 AM
I suppose they have repainted the yellow parts too.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: Captured Bf-109F,Hasegawa 1/48
Post by: B_Realistic on December 27, 2012, 09:22:20 AM
Well, what would you say about this photo?

(http://storage6.static.itmages.ru/i/12/1227/s_1356562937_7604771_953b8ecd33.jpeg) (http://itmages.ru/image/view/820467/953b8ecd)

That's nice. :D


Title: Re: Captured Bf-109F,Hasegawa 1/48
Post by: B_Realistic on December 27, 2012, 09:25:04 AM
A VERY interesting image.  I think I see the point of a star on the top of the near wing.

JP,

unless I've got not so good eyes as you where do you see this? ???

Michel


Title: Re: Captured Bf-109F,Hasegawa 1/48
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on December 27, 2012, 09:43:33 AM
I think to see it too, on the inner side of the lighter band (green?) that covers the crosses on the wings. Perhaps they have first overpainted a star on each cross, then overpainted all leaving to see only a tip.
As an alternative, it could be a part of the splinter camo. To decide, it's necessary to see if the German pattern of the 109 should have an angle on that part of the wing.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: Captured Bf-109F,Hasegawa 1/48
Post by: B_Realistic on December 27, 2012, 09:38:34 PM
I think to see it too, on the inner side of the lighter band (green?) that covers the crosses on the wings. Perhaps they have first overpainted a star on each cross, then overpainted all leaving to see only a tip.
As an alternative, it could be a part of the splinter camo. To decide, it's necessary to see if the German pattern of the 109 should have an angle on that part of the wing.
Regards
Massimo

It's from the splinter camo. F-2's had that kind of camo.
You can check this.

http://www.aircrewremembrancesociety.com/luft1941/pingel.html




Title: Re: Captured Bf-109F,Hasegawa 1/48
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on December 28, 2012, 07:42:21 AM
Quote
It's from the splinter camo. F-2's had that kind of camo.
You can check this.

http://www.aircrewremembrancesociety.com/luft1941/pingel.html

But I don't see the same angle on this photo.
(http://www.aircrewremembrancesociety.com/luft1941/pingel_files/bf-109f_1.jpg)
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: Captured Bf-109F,Hasegawa 1/48
Post by: Walker on December 28, 2012, 10:47:51 AM
(http://storage4.static.itmages.ru/i/12/1228/s_1356687976_9708397_7c38242056.jpeg) (http://itmages.ru/image/view/822461/7c382420) (http://storage5.static.itmages.ru/i/12/1228/s_1356688010_2146417_39d6f56a2a.jpeg) (http://itmages.ru/image/view/822462/39d6f56a) (http://storage6.static.itmages.ru/i/12/1228/s_1356688025_2539777_912f5ee4b5.jpeg) (http://itmages.ru/image/view/822463/912f5ee4) (http://storage7.static.itmages.ru/i/12/1228/s_1356688042_1198043_aba7270264.jpeg) (http://itmages.ru/image/view/822464/aba72702) (http://storage9.static.itmages.ru/i/12/1228/s_1356688062_6517256_ef65f1c726.jpeg) (http://itmages.ru/image/view/822466/ef65f1c7)


Title: Re: Captured Bf-109F,Hasegawa 1/48
Post by: B_Realistic on December 28, 2012, 04:44:23 PM
Quote
It's from the splinter camo. F-2's had that kind of camo.
You can check this.

http://www.aircrewremembrancesociety.com/luft1941/pingel.html

But I don't see the same angle on this photo.
(http://www.aircrewremembrancesociety.com/luft1941/pingel_files/bf-109f_1.jpg)
Regards
Massimo

The left tip....


Title: Re: Captured Bf-109F,Hasegawa 1/48
Post by: 66misos on December 28, 2012, 06:07:07 PM
Hi Marluc,

did you see this page?  http://vvs.hobbyvista.com/Markings/Guests_LII/Guests_LII_1.html (http://vvs.hobbyvista.com/Markings/Guests_LII/Guests_LII_1.html)   ;)

Although this is a picture of (my) kit it shows standard camouflage clearly:
(http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/rh/images/galleries/articles/232-331/13299/gallery_25848/photos_1261566086.jpg)

Patterns of Bf-109 camo look differently. I tend to agree with Massimo that there is visible a part of the star, but seems to be bigger than standard.

Regards,
     66misos


Title: Re: Captured Bf-109F,Hasegawa 1/48
Post by: JP on December 28, 2012, 09:09:19 PM
I grew up in the Luftwaffe fan boy club and considered the splinter camo.  But no splinter camo had an angular protrusion of that kind, which is why it stood out to me.  The only doubt I have is that the rest of what might be a star is washed out.  Regardless, that shape is not part of the original camo scheme IMO.


Title: Re: Captured Bf-109F,Hasegawa 1/48
Post by: B_Realistic on December 29, 2012, 08:44:08 PM
Hi Marluc,

did you see this page?  http://vvs.hobbyvista.com/Markings/Guests_LII/Guests_LII_1.html (http://vvs.hobbyvista.com/Markings/Guests_LII/Guests_LII_1.html)   ;)

Although this is a picture of (my) kit it shows standard camouflage clearly:
(http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/rh/images/galleries/articles/232-331/13299/gallery_25848/photos_1261566086.jpg)

Patterns of Bf-109 camo look differently. I tend to agree with Massimo that there is visible a part of the star, but seems to be bigger than standard.

Regards,
     66misos

Great looking Bf-109. :D


Title: Re: Captured Bf-109F,Hasegawa 1/48
Post by: marluc on January 03, 2013, 07:18:38 PM
I'm wondering how can be done for the white line on the stars. Maybe a retouch with thinned red by brush to make them less visible?
Hi Massimo,I?ve been wondering the exact thing too,I?ll try masking the edges of the red stars and airbrushing very diluted red paint.
I want to add a red star to both sides of the tail if I found one of the right size,it can?t be seen in the picture but it?s probably there.
Thanks all of you for your comments and the friendly discussion,greetings.

Martin


Title: Re: Captured Bf-109F,Hasegawa 1/48
Post by: 66misos on January 04, 2013, 09:29:04 AM
Hi Martin,
I would go for masking and airbrush whole stars. It seems to be more complicated than just freehand brush corrections, but at least in my case experience says not. I usually have to correct freehand brush several times plus color of paint does not match exactly color of decal, or did not cover well or is too thick etc. So at the end of the day freehand brush requires more time then originally expected. And not rarely the final correction is masking and airbrush ;)
Just be carefull and do not remove decals when removing masking tape.
Let me wish you a lot of success with your kit!

Regards,
    66misos


Title: Re: Captured Bf-109F,Hasegawa 1/48
Post by: 66misos on May 15, 2014, 06:44:26 AM
Hi
I just found at http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/aircraft-pictures/captured-aircraft-odd-photos-999-33.html (http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/aircraft-pictures/captured-aircraft-odd-photos-999-33.html) this:
(http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/attachments/aircraft-pictures/216551d1353388496t-captured-aircraft-odd-photos-luftwaffe-losses-eastern-front-me109g-2-w.nr14513-ll-jg53-43-01-17.jpg)

(http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/attachments/aircraft-pictures/216550d1353388417t-captured-aircraft-odd-photos-me109g-2.jpg)

http://www.vintagewings.ca/VintageNews/Stories/tabid/116/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/394/language/fr-FR/WTF.aspx (http://www.vintagewings.ca/VintageNews/Stories/tabid/116/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/394/language/fr-FR/WTF.aspx) :
Another Messerschmitt Bf 109 trophy (14513 operated by II JG 3) bagged by the Soviets was tested against a Lavochkin La-5FN and Yakovlev Yak-9D, with the conclusion being that the Russian fighters could compete successfully against the 109. This aircraft was tested at NII VVS Research Centre after it had been captured, following a forced landing with battle damage. According to trophy lists, the Soviets would acquire 54 Messerschmitt Bf 109s with eight of these being fully operational. Photo via Stewart Callan, Flickr.

Regards,
     66misos


Title: Re: Captured Bf-109F,Hasegawa 1/48
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on May 15, 2014, 10:21:06 PM
Hi Misos,
the profile doesn't seem very resembling to the photo. The German blotches are visible through the green layer, on the spinner too, and the tail doesn't seem white.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: Captured Bf-109F,Hasegawa 1/48
Post by: 66misos on May 16, 2014, 03:42:59 PM
Hi Massimo,
I agree that color profile is not fully correct.
According to the photo I have from Airforce.ru forum I would say that there were no red stars on the upper wings, only German white crosses were repainted (AMT4?).
(http://i1063.photobucket.com/albums/t518/66misos/Bf-109/foto-redakcia0001_colored_zps6141e998.jpg)
Left upper wing painting fits quite well to painting on the plastic kit above, of course minus repainted darker (square) area over cross.
Regards,
    66misos


Title: Re: Captured Bf-109F,Hasegawa 1/48
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on May 16, 2014, 06:10:56 PM
Hi Misos, seems that they have repainted the wingtips, spinner and the tips of the prop blades (or perhaps these are worn).
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: Captured Bf-109F,Hasegawa 1/48
Post by: KL on May 16, 2014, 06:38:16 PM
... I would say that there were no red stars on the upper wings, only German white crosses were repainted (AMT4?).

It wasn't AMT-4, more likely an oil paint of the similar colour.
AMT paints were designed for the use on fabric.  They were used on metal only if the surface was properly primed.  I doubt they primed surface of this Me-109 with ALG-1 and used hot air to dry it.

http://www.vintagewings.ca/VintageNews/Stories/tabid/116/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/394/language/fr-FR/WTF.aspx (http://www.vintagewings.ca/VintageNews/Stories/tabid/116/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/394/language/fr-FR/WTF.aspx) :
Another Messerschmitt Bf 109 trophy (14513 operated by II JG 3) bagged by the Soviets was tested against a Lavochkin La-5FN and Yakovlev Yak-9D, with the conclusion being that the Russian fighters could compete successfully against the 109. This aircraft was tested at NII VVS Research Centre after it had been captured, following a forced landing with battle damage. According to trophy lists, the Soviets would acquire 54 Messerschmitt Bf 109s with eight of these being fully operational.

Is it only me...  ???  ...it is interesting how Germans or Americans just capture enemy's planes, and Soviets also bag German planes.  Sounds like they were collecting Bf-109s.

Term "captured" isn't clear at all:  even if the plane is found on an airfield or in a factory after enemy capitulated (in France in 1940 or in Germany and Japan in 1945) it is considered to be "captured".  Planes flown by defecting pilots are also considered to be "captured" even if the pilot himself wasn't captured - he couldn't become POW because there was no state of war.

Also, those numbers are very suspicious:  There were no "trophy lists".  I would suspect that more than 54 Messerschmitt Bf 109s in various state ended on Soviet held territories.  There were no operational Messerschmitt Bf 109s in Soviet VVS - author is saying that Soviets used 8 Bf-109s against Germans (was that a Bf-109 squadron or they were dispersed in VVS regiments?).
The hole text is a joke...

Regards,
KL

 


Title: Re: Captured Bf-109F,Hasegawa 1/48
Post by: KL on May 16, 2014, 08:22:06 PM
Another Messerschmitt Bf 109 trophy in 402 iap

(http://www.nnre.ru/transport_i_aviacija/aviacija_i_kosmonavtika_2010_01/pic_14.jpg)

from http://www.nnre.ru/transport_i_aviacija/aviacija_i_kosmonavtika_2010_01/p1.php

This one was supposedly used to fly few recce and "free hunting" missions over German held territory. Such flights were soon forbidden by the command.

Подбитые фашистские истребители неоднократно совершали вынужденные посадки на нашей территории, и у летчиков полка появилась мысль использовать их в боевой работе. Однако все они представляли довольно плачевное зрелище. И вот однажды командир полка со своим ведомым капитаном Афанасием Про-шаковым, изрядно потрепав в воздушном бою Bf. 109, решили пленить летчика вместе с самолетом. Взяв ?мессершмитт? в ?клещи? они повели его на свой аэродром. Любая попытка фашистского летчика уйти в сторону немедленно пресекалась трассирующей очередью из пулемета. Перед самой посадкой немец сделал последнюю отчаянную попытку вырваться, но, получив дополнительную порцию свинца, плюхнулся на землю. Техник Я.Фомин вместе с механиками отремонтировал трофейный истребитель. На плоскостях снизу вместо черных крестов нарисовали красные звезды. Груздев долго добивался разрешения опробовать его в деле, но, наконец, получил ?добро?. Константину Афанасьевичу удалось совершить на нем несколько полетов на разведку и свободную охоту над территорией противника. Перед каждым из них ПВО и наземные войска заранее предупреждались о времени, месте и маршруте полета. Но затем командование запретило командиру полка рисковать своей жизнью.