Sovietwarplanes

Hi folks,
My name is Tibor, and this is my first post here. I'm a model builder from Slovakia.
I usually make AFV subjects, but this time I've decided to model a plane.

Pictures of my model:
P-47D Bubbletop - "Tandyerbolt", 1/48 Tamiya, 255th IAP, Vayenga 1 airfield, Spring 1945

The plane:
(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc295/noirussini/Planes/P47D%20Thunderbolt%20in%20soviet%20service/IMG_2572_cr.jpg)
(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc295/noirussini/Planes/P47D%20Thunderbolt%20in%20soviet%20service/IMG_2565_cr.jpg)

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc295/noirussini/Planes/P47D%20Thunderbolt%20in%20soviet%20service/IMG_2561_cr.jpg)
(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc295/noirussini/Planes/P47D%20Thunderbolt%20in%20soviet%20service/IMG_2581_cr.jpg)
(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc295/noirussini/Planes/P47D%20Thunderbolt%20in%20soviet%20service/IMG_2580_cr.jpg)

Some details:
(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc295/noirussini/Planes/P47D%20Thunderbolt%20in%20soviet%20service/IMG_1277_cr.jpg)(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc295/noirussini/Planes/P47D%20Thunderbolt%20in%20soviet%20service/IMG_1132_cr.jpg)

I've manged to collect some historical background about P-47D. For reference I used mainly the MBI book about P-47D, where a complete chapter deals with lend lease jugs.
I found some great pictures also on scalemodel.ru forum. You can check those pictures and interesting other info about the P-47 here:
http://scalemodels.ru/modules/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7201&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=p47+thunderbolt&start=0
For technical details the aero detail and some squadron books were used.

I think the soviet P-47D is an interesting subject, especially that the razorback and bubbletop variants were shipped to the Soviet Union during the war.
Briefly:
The P-47D-s were manufactured in the USA, prepared to send by ships mostly via the southern lend lease route. They were assembled near Basrah, Persia at the Abadan port and air base.
From this airfield they were flown by Russian pilots to the USSR on the Abadan-Teheran-Kirovabad route /about 1450km distance/
The planes were handled to the ZBAP, or ZAP, Reserve bomber air regiment/Reserve Air regiment which trained the crews and deployed the planes to the units.
Before the introduction to the 11th ZAP a technical platoon checked the machines:
- the unnecessary radio equipment was removed /transmitters not compatible with soviet frequencies.
- the automatic radar identification IFF repeater was removed
- sometimes the soviet national insignia was painted by the platoon

The P-47D was not used in combat units, or combat situations. The plane showed rather poor results compared to the Soviet fighters  - designed as a high altitude escort fighter for the strategic bomber force, was indeed not really suitable for the eastern front use.

For a relatively long period of time it was used and tested at the 255 IAP, stationed at Vaenga/ Vayenga 1 airstrip, near Murmansk.

The marking of the planes was very similar to the P-39 Aircobras, delivered to the USSR

Some technical notes, useful for modelers:
I manged to conclude the following about the paint and the marking of Soviet P-47
The planes were factory painted with a misunderstood interpretation of the requested marking, mostly resulting in a white circle with a red star in it
This marking was most likely painted as the original US ones, left upper wing, and on the underside of the right wing.
According to the MBI book:
-other colored variant might have existed
-planes with original US markings were delivered

I assumed that in the USSR the planes could be found with:
-misinterpreted US markings,
-over painted misinterpreted US markings
-over painted US markings
- US makings/I consider this highly unlikely - the MBI book mentions white US stars, but there's no photo evidence for this

Further notes about the details:
-star painted on the wheel disks?
-no mirrors visible on Bubbletop
-antenna wire not visible?

The standard camouflage was Olive Drab /OD and neutral grey /NG, also some interpretations  show Soviet late war 2 tone fighter camouflage.
The interior color should be Dull Dark Green.

The first delivered machine:
(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc295/noirussini/Planes/P47D%20Thunderbolt%20in%20soviet%20service/P-47%20reference%20pictures/imageuuut.jpg)

Republic Export machines, in the left corner the one for USSR, note the markings. White circle, red? star, and as seen on US planes, just on the left wing.
(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc295/noirussini/Planes/P47D%20Thunderbolt%20in%20soviet%20service/P-47%20reference%20pictures/47su.jpg)

Another shot, note the insignia under the right wing.
Middle: the caption from the airstrip, number 39 with overpainted original yellow US factory number. 39 is perhaps white.
Number 23 with visible US registration marks, possibly silver or yellow? Also note the white stripes, sometimes presented as marking, but could be "duct tape" cover for the machines.
The engines and the canopy seem to have some cover as well.
Bottom pic: a crash landed Razorback, some contrast is visible on the paint, mainly behind the canopy, this picture could be the basis for the 2 color grey late war cammo artwork. AMT-11,AMT-12,AMT-7 perhaps?  
(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc295/noirussini/Planes/P47D%20Thunderbolt%20in%20soviet%20service/P-47%20reference%20pictures/262c.jpg)

Ready for shipping from the USA, note the duct tape sealing
(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc295/noirussini/Planes/P47D%20Thunderbolt%20in%20soviet%20service/P-47%20reference%20pictures/imagefg.jpg)

On the right side of the 2nd photo / left underwing / some lighter color is visible under the star, AMT-7  overpaint?
(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc295/noirussini/Planes/P47D%20Thunderbolt%20in%20soviet%20service/P-47%20reference%20pictures/imageff.jpg)


Middle: Some interesting photo of the nose, the color looks darker, perhaps long term storage and the motor was covered as seen on previous pic?
(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc295/noirussini/Planes/P47D%20Thunderbolt%20in%20soviet%20service/P-47%20reference%20pictures/LL_RS4_doc_082_P_47.jpg)

Another shot
(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc295/noirussini/Planes/P47D%20Thunderbolt%20in%20soviet%20service/P-47%20reference%20pictures/255Regimentofthenewspaper.jpg)

An artwork of the 39 - without the white stripes
(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc295/noirussini/Planes/P47D%20Thunderbolt%20in%20soviet%20service/P-47%20reference%20pictures/1tb-1.jpg)
Version of the Czech decal manufacturer, AML
(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc295/noirussini/Planes/P47D%20Thunderbolt%20in%20soviet%20service/P-47%20reference%20pictures/p-47d-27-p-39n-in-russian-s-sky.jpg)

An artwork of the 39, Razorback 1 in OD
(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc295/noirussini/Planes/P47D%20Thunderbolt%20in%20soviet%20service/P-47%20reference%20pictures/2613.jpg)
An artwork of the 23 - yellow this time
Also the Razorback 1 in 2 tone
(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc295/noirussini/Planes/P47D%20Thunderbolt%20in%20soviet%20service/P-47%20reference%20pictures/image.jpg)

Any comments considering the model or the background information are more than welcome.

Best regards
Tibor
-



 
 

Dude!  Excellent build and quite the informative post!  It'll have to come back when I have a little more time to read all of it, but thanks for posting it here!

I agree!  Brilliant work on the P-47 and thank you for the information.  As it happens, I'm completing a couple of lend-lease "Kobras" then I want to finish my lend-lease P-47.  The information you have here will come in very handy.  And welcome to the forum, Tibor!

Best Regards,

Jason

Welcome to the forum Tibor.Congratulations for your excellent P-47,you?ve done a superb work.And thanks for all the information and the pictures,there?s a pair of them I didn?t see before.Greetings.

Martin

Hi Tibor,
an excellent model indeed. Thank you for your research on this subject too.

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc295/noirussini/Planes/P47D%20Thunderbolt%20in%20soviet%20service/P-47%20reference%20pictures/262c.jpg)

The last image looks to show an unusual spinner, isn't it?

Regards
Massimo

Yes Massimo,is it an small spinner? Never seen one in any P-47.
Greetings

Martin

It does indeed look like a small spinner.  The Soviets did use some very small spinners - I'm reminded of the small spinners fitted to the Li-2.

Regards,

Jason

Thank you all for the nice comments. Great observation of the spinner, looks like a different origin one than the US versions.

Hi all,
it seems to have some disruptive camouflage too.
Regards
Massimo

Probably two-grey?

Regards,

Jason

It looks so dark... maybe black over OD?
Massimo

I suppose it depends on the timeframe.  Black over olive drab would produce a similar camouflage to the normal VVS black/green camouflage.

Regards,

Jason

The time-frame would be for grey-grey, but I haven't seen many lend-lease planes completely repainted.
Regards
Massimo

Do you suppose we could use this as part of our lend-lease pages?

Hi John,
do you mean: adapt the documents in this post to make a page on the P-47 for the site? It is possible, of course, if Tibor agrees... but some more documents would be useful.
Regards
Massimo

Wonderfull work!
there is a lot of work on the olive drab and on the light grey colours
all the colors (particularry the colours to cover the american stars ) are very credible
congratulation, it's really wonderfull !
Xan

Hi, thanks Xan,

JP, Massimo, you can use any info from my post, but keep in mind some of my limits:
-That the photos are from the internet, so there could be possible copyright issues.
-Also my research is limited, I'm rather a modeller than a researcher, the most of the information was from the MBI book.

so Massimo is right, some more sources should be used if an article is planned to be published. Or perhaps any primary research involved.
Anyway if I can help you just let me know.

Also some of you guys might have to finnish book:
Red Stars 4 - Lend-Lease Aircraft in Russia (Red Stars, Volume 4) C-F Guest and G. Petrov (Kustanyaja, Tampere, Finland, 2002 - it could have usefull info and pictures about the Soviet Thunderbolts also.

Thanks Tibor,
I have that book, I'll have a look.
Regards
Massimo

Nice job on your model. A slight hijack on my part since we are on the 255TH. The profile posted of the Razorback has any one photos of this plane?


(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/image.jpg)

A book I have says the scheme is supported by photographic evidence.

The photo is in the 4th part of the Red Stars.
It is surely camouflaged but I am unsure that the photo is about this plane.
There is a stripe or a range of numbers ont he tail.

Istv?n

(http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h257/vadasz/LL_RS4_doc_082_P_47.jpg)

Hi Tibor,

very nice kit (velmi pekny model  ;). I very like camo fading and weathering. One can get a very good idea how also Airacobras could look like.
I really appreciated your approach to US national marking repainting on the fuselage and underwing:
And AMT-4 on fuselage?

Regards
    66misos SK

Tibor,

this is wonderful how you've weathered yor P-47. :o
The color differencies are very subtle and good.
This is one of the best weathered P-47 I've seen and yes I'm direct a fan from your work. :D
I've sent you a PM.

Michel

 Very nice work indeed! I like both the painting which is very well done, but also all the subtle weathering, give this special air to the model.

 One question though, about the camouflaged P-47:


 Was there really an aircraft painted in this scheme, or is it a misunderstood play of light and shadow on the background?

 Panayotis

Hi Panayotis,
I think it's really camouflaged, even if I am not sure that the drawing is exact. I would say... defendable. However I would follow better the pattern of the Lavochkins.
Regards
Massimo