Sovietwarplanes

Hi guys,
i'm Enrico a newbie and i've a doubt:i 've to built the Zvezda 1\48 La 5FN of Vitali Popkov and I want to replace the decals sheet.....I 've found two sheets a Aeromaster one (n? 48086) and a Aml one (n?48012) ....booth have the airplane I searching for but the upper surfaces camo are different,the first one have grey ,green and brown while the second have dark grey and grey blue.....also the bottom surfaces seem to be different..........I think these are two different aircraft!!!What do you think-know?Ciao Enrico.
P.S.Also suggestion where find decals are very appreciated....... ;)

hi Kiko,
if I'm not wrong, your la-5 can only be two grey camo wich was the fighter's camo;
the three tone camo was for the bombers, training plane etc..

Xan

Enrico, that first scheme sounds like the three-colour scheme, which was used on IL-2's (amongst other aeroplanes) but never on fighters.  The second scheme is the so-called "two-grey" scheme, which was introduced in 1943 and was used by fighter aeroplanes.  The colours are AMT-12 Dark Grey and AMT-11 Grey Blue.  The undersides would be the normal AMT-7 Blue.  A few La-5FN's were painted in the black/green scheme which was introduced in the middle of 1941, but almost all would have been in the two-grey scheme.  Here is a thread from this site which discusses the two greys - http://sovietwarplanes.com/board/index.php?topic=1151.0  Hopefully this helps!

Regards,

Jason

from http://www.rudolf.webservis.ru/72ag_books/mono/la5alekseenko/index.htm
photo that inspired most of the better profiles
(http://www.rudolf.webservis.ru/72ag_books/mono/la5alekseenko/pic/24.jpeg)

from this forum http://sovietwarplanes.com/board/index.php?topic=201.30
probably the most accurate profile  :)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-4OveyRzFAIQ/TnzJRu00vTI/AAAAAAAAIgw/KSlQzkPetp0/s800/Popkov_01_La5FN.jpg)

note the nose "air intake" and the light ring!

Hi,
I had a look to the old topic http://sovietwarplanes.com/board/index.php?topic=201.15 (http://sovietwarplanes.com/board/index.php?topic=201.15) , the photos posted by Renato, and have a consideration: the dark grey band on the stabilizer passes at different height on the photo of the white-nosed plane and on that one where 01 and the white stripes on the fuselage are visible. So I guess that they are not the same plane. This doesn't necessarily mean that the profiles are wrong, of course.
Regards
Massimo

Great work of historic re-costruction!At the end I can think to do:camo in Amt-11/Amt-12/Amt-7,no white tip on the tail,white spinner with a little white strip on cowling,no badge or lion's head on cowling.Only one thing about the demarcation line between upper and lower surfaces....from profile I can't see it very well,and if that continue on the rudder,perhaps no one can answer.....but same suggestions are ever appreciated.Thanks a lot guys.Enrico.

I don't have a set, but remember seeing those Aeromaster decals before. It is actually not the bomber 3-colour scheme, but something completely different and very strange. Here you go:

http://www.squadron.com/images/profiles/AeroMaster/jpg48/AN48086a.jpg
http://www.squadron.com/images/profiles/AeroMaster/jpg48/AN48086b.jpg

You see models built up occasionally following that scheme:
http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/rh/articles.php?id=6855
http://www.modelingmadness.com/reviews/allies/ussr/cleaverla5.htm

It is claimed to be a "winter scheme".

About the AML decals: I have this beautifully printed sheet but it is at home. I just noticed on their website that the "01" and stars for Popkov's plane are printed in silver:
http://www.aml.cz/dec/d48012-d.jpg
http://www.aml.cz/dec/d48012-b1.jpg
How plausible is this? On this image:
(http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w43/Renato71/Popkov_La-5FN.jpg)
It does look like the star and numbers might be a different colour than the white vertical lines behind them.

Light grey "winter scheme"; I wonder who came up with that one - maybe the same person who came up with the brown/green camouflage that still plagues profiles to this day.

Regards,

Jason

In "Person's" theory planes were factory painted in one gray.  Two gray scheme was a field modification.  ;D

For this discussion it is important to identify misconceptions surounding Popkov's La-5FN:
-  there was no light gray "winter scheme"
-  there was no gray with green & brown bloches scheme
-  there is no photographic evidence (in popular literature?) for guards sign and tiger head on engine cowling

La-5FN tested in NII VVS in September 1944:
 (http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm13/klesnikov/Posted%20in%20forums/La-5FN_NII_VVS-2.jpg)

Number 01 is a coincidence - it denotes the 1st plane in the production series of 100 or 50 planes.

KL

Hi all,
often repaintings are very evident a on grey/grey camouflage. Besides, the existence of grey/grey scheme is known to illustrators since the late '80s.
Probably, the illustrators  hadn't keys to interpretate the photo of a plane with repaintings before that age.
The same image of 01 badly grounded features some repaintings that could have given strange ideas to an artist of the '70s.
Regards
Massimo

IMHO, La-5FN Number 01 is a fine example of standard 1943 two-gray scheme:

(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm13/klesnikov/Posted%20in%20forums/La-5FN_NII_VVS-2.jpg)

(http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/colors/1943-45-fighters/tem-fighters1943.jpg)

Regards,
KL 

Yes, but there are traces of repainting on the rear fuselage and stabilizer and perhaps a red star deleted and repainted . If one don't recognize the standard pattern, he can think to a three-shade camo.
Regards
Massimo

Tree-shade fighter camo scheme aka ?Sick Leopard Scheme?

(http://airwar.valka.cz/sssr/la_05/clipart/cam_04.jpg)

(http://www.monkeydepot.com/v/vspfiles/photos/SM0009-2.jpg)

(http://www.hobbymastercollector.com/files/SM2002-5.jpg)

(http://www.internetmodeler.com/1999/april/aviation/la5-10.jpg)
(http://www.internetmodeler.com/1999/april/aviation/la5-11.jpg)

(http://bob.plord.net/Ships/Aircraft/SovietUnion/pix/La5FN2.jpg)

I just cannot get used to that "winter scheme" interpretation  :o

Does anyone have an opinion on the second part of my post - white versus silver "01" and fuselage star? AML interprets it as silver, and that close-up photo that I showed does seem to show a possible difference between the star / number and the white bands around the fuselage.

With the introduction of "gray-gray" scheme it was clearly formulated in VVS documents that "winter scheme is no longer required".
Painting procedure for g-g scheme was also established to paint darker gray first. Field repaints in overall lighter gray cann't be excluded but afaik
they are not documented "beyond reasonable doubt".
I agree with AML and vouch for silver paint.
Cheers,
Mario

But, what is the reason to put all those giant photos of wrong models based on wrong drawings of 20 or more years ago?  It's unuseful to repeat here how planes were painted, now we know much more that at those times.

About  numbers of 01: I don't think it's silver, it's too uniform. No shining on the upper part, no shadows where it reflect the dark uniform.
I think that it's simply an older and darker layer of white, painted much before the stripes.
Regards
Massimo

"About  numbers of 01: I don't think it's silver, it's too uniform. No shining on the upper part, no shadows where it reflect the dark uniform.
I think that it's simply an older and darker layer of white, painted much before the stripes.
Regards
Massimo "

I'm agree with white old star........(also because so doing I don't need another decals sheet!!!!!!!!!!Just for joke guys.... :D :D :D)
Thanks again for your answers........Enrico.

Thanks for all your inputs. I was actually planning to do one of the other schemes on the AML sheet, but these discussions on Popkov's aircraft now made me reconsider again. I think there is enough uncertainty from that photo to conclude that it "might" be silver, although I agree with Massimo and Kikko that it could also just be older paint. The difference is quite noticeable though. I do think in this case, because I have the AML sheet, because their interpretation is not quite impossible and it would certainly make for an interesting interpretation, I might just go for Popkov's plane but with the silver 01 and stars. I am also still in two minds whether the rudder tip should be white or not...

I am working on two other projects at the moment, so I still have time to consider it. Massimo, this whole discussion on Popkov's aircraft could make for an interesting article on your La-5 pages?

Regards,
Bennie

Hi Bennie, hi Enrico,

Certainly, the fact to have a decals sheet is a good reason to accept it unless it's proven wrong and there is a better alternative.

I think I'll certainly include photos of those planes and some comments, but they will be only a quick resuming of the topic because, unfortunately, a clear conclusion was not reached.
I suppose that the next plane of which I'll collect photos will be the SB.

Regards
Massimo

The SB - good choice, Massimo!

Regards,

Jason