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Print Page - Pavla resin parts usable on Yak-6

Sovietwarplanes

Modeling Soviet Warplanes => Model Kits => Topic started by: TISO on January 23, 2012, 03:00:20 PM



Title: Pavla resin parts usable on Yak-6
Post by: TISO on January 23, 2012, 03:00:20 PM
I was compiling a list of resin parts that could be used to upgrade A-model Yak-6M or convert it to Yak-6.
OK from what i so far determined Pavla does produce a number of parts and sets intended for Polikarpov U-2 and/or their model of Yak UT-1/1b (kit No.72034) that could be used on A-model Yak-6. In hope that the guys from Pavla monitor this forum or they will be notified by our members (hint, hint) and will act on it and produce comprehensive set for this model i'm posting the list here.

Pavla resin parts usable for Yak-6 upgrade/conversion:
Engine cover  - Yak-UT-1 part  No.R3 (directly) or from set U72-30 (with modified face) x2  - if anyone has instructions for UT-1/1b and No. of this part please post it here (i lost my instructions after i finished mine)
Engines ? E72-04 Engine Shvetsov M-11 for Po-2 or from set U72-30 or from UT-1/1b kit x2
Propellers  ?  from set U72-30 x2
Wheels  - from set U72-30 ? (i havent checked the dimensions yet)
Machine gun ? ShKAS  from set U72-30
Bombs and bomb carriers for NBB - from set U72-30

For comprehensive set some additional parts would be needed:
Wheel well insert for fixed U/C
entry door on left side of fuselage
roof dooers for gunner
Vac-formed canopy


Title: Re: Pavla resin parts usable on Yak-6
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on January 23, 2012, 04:03:37 PM
Hi Tiso,
I've written already to them on this argument, without any result or answer.
To tell the truth, I don't see much interest to build the Amodel Yak-6M, that was a prototype only, I'm thinking to a kitbashing.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: Pavla resin parts usable on Yak-6
Post by: John Thompson on January 23, 2012, 04:22:44 PM
I find it interesting that Amodel, God bless them for all the VVS types they've kitted over the years, would release a kit of a one-off transport prototype instead of the production version (unless I'm misunderstanding), while ignoring such aircraft as the Yak-1b and Yak-9 (the mid-war M-105 versions), or not retool their old I-16 and I-153 kits. It's hard to believe that anyone is saying, "At last - the kit I've wanted for years - the Yak-6M!". But hey - what do I know?  ???

John


Title: Re: Pavla resin parts usable on Yak-6
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on January 23, 2012, 05:54:18 PM
Hi John,
I find irritating that they made two kits with decals and painting schemes that are a complete what-if. People buying that kit forthemost ignores that it never became operational.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: Pavla resin parts usable on Yak-6
Post by: John Thompson on January 23, 2012, 07:45:26 PM
Pavla resin parts usable for Yak-6 upgrade/conversion:
Engine cover  - Yak-UT-1 part  No.?? (directly) or from set U72-30 (with modified face) x2  - if anyone has instructions for UT-1/1b and No. of this part please post it here (i lost my instructions after i finished mine)

Hi TISO! After I read your post more carefully, I realized that I have the Pavla UT-1/1b kit; here's a scan of a couple of the instruction pages, which show the part number you're looking for to be R3. I hope this helps! (Nice kit, by the way - one of Pavla's better ones, I think. And good work on your writeup about what parts are needed for the conversion.)

(http://s8.postimage.org/za81mgbrl/Pavla_UT_1_scan_001.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/za81mgbrl/)


Hi John,
I find irritating that they made two kits with decals and painting schemes that are a complete what-if. People buying that kit forthemost ignores that it never became operational.
Regards
Massimo


Hi Massimo! I really wish I could understand better what the people at Amodel think about when they decide to release a new kit. I don't believe they will sell very many of this Yak-6M, while I'm sure they would sell many copies of any or all of the four aircraft I suggested in my previous post.

To tell the truth, I don't see much interest to build the Amodel Yak-6M, that was a prototype only, I'm thinking to a kitbashing.
Regards
Massimo

There was an older Yak-6 kit that originated with Apex or VES (but I'm guessing - it could have been someone else) that was reissued under the Encore name. Maybe this kit might be useful to combine with the Amodel kit? I hate to admit this, but I also have one of these kits somewhere - I could try to find it and see how good or bad it is!

Yes, I will buy anything if it has red stars on it... :-[

Cheers!
John


Title: Re: Pavla resin parts usable on Yak-6
Post by: John Thompson on January 23, 2012, 08:28:35 PM
I was curious so I looked among my storage boxes; I was wrong (gee, that never happened before...)! The kit I have is an old Russian (?) one of the Yak-4, not the Yak-6. However, there was an old Alfa Yak-6 kit which was reissued by Encore. I tried to find sprue images on the Internet; this was the best I could do:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-72-YAKOVLEV-YAK-6-RUSSIAN-WWII-TWIN-ENGINE-MEDIUM-TRANSPORT-ENCORE-/190594102166

There are several images on the page which can be enlarged, but they're not very good, since they were photographed with the parts inside the plastic bag. And in spite of what it says, the panel lines, etc., appear to be raised, not recessed.

Here's one that someone built:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/miguelludwig/3284122007/

One in progress:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:L5mRZuLIHy8J:www.network54.com/Forum/47751/message/1249370083/WIP%2B-%2BEncore%2BYak%2B6,%2Bsome%2Bmore%2Bdone%2B%26gt%253B+Encore+Yak-6&cd=7&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca

A listing from Scalemodels.ru of several Yak-6 kits:
http://scalewiki.ru/%D1%8F%D0%BA-6#encore_1_72_yak-6
(Scroll up and down to see them all)

I think I'll go and lie down now...  :-\

John


Title: Re: Pavla resin parts usable on Yak-6
Post by: learstang on January 23, 2012, 08:49:59 PM
Good work, John and TISO!  It's nice to know about the Yak-6M as I've been tempted on several occasions to buy it.  I suppose I'll pass on it now.  However, what about the Yak-6 in the link, John, with all the bombs - was that a production variant?

Regards,

Jason


Title: Re: Pavla resin parts usable on Yak-6
Post by: John Thompson on January 23, 2012, 09:48:33 PM
However, what about the Yak-6 in the link, John, with all the bombs - was that a production variant?

Regards,

Jason

According to Gunston's "Osprey Encyclopedia of Russian Aircraft", the prototype, at least, was designed to carry a total of up to 500 kilos of bombload on five racks under the wing centresection. He also says further: "Though of low performance, about 1000 built and used with great effect in front line, both as transport and as close support and night attack aircraft with various arrangements of pilot-aimed bombs and up to ten RS-82 rockets under outer wings."

The English Wikipedia page is here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakovlev_Yak-6

Two more versions of the same basic kit, as reissued by Intech and Zvezda; this time we have much better sprue images:
http://www.cybermodeler.com/hobby/kits/intech/kit_intech_yak-6.shtml
http://modelingmadness.com/reviews/allies/ussr/broeyak6.htm

Now I don't dare to lie down - if I happened to fall asleep, I'd probably dream I was being attacked with 10 RS-82's launched from a Yak-6...  :'(

John


Title: Re: Pavla resin parts usable on Yak-6
Post by: KL on January 23, 2012, 10:11:11 PM
However, what about the Yak-6 in the link, John, with all the bombs - was that a production variant?

According to Gunston's "Osprey Encyclopedia of Russian Aircraft", the prototype, at least, was designed to carry a total of up to 500 kilos of bombload on five racks under the wing centresection. He also says further: "Though of low performance, about 1000 built and used with great effect in front line, both as transport and as close support and night attack aircraft with various arrangements of pilot-aimed bombs and up to ten RS-82 rockets under outer wings."

Yak-6 NBB was made only as a single prototype!  It did not pass 1942 tests.  There were plans to install more powerfull engines, but those did not appear.  Yak-6 production stopped in fall 1943.  Instead ShChe-2 entered production.
Only 381 Yak-6s were produced - all were transports.

from: http://www.airwar.ru/enc/cww2/yak6.html


Title: Re: Pavla resin parts usable on Yak-6
Post by: John Thompson on January 23, 2012, 10:22:34 PM
Thanks, KL - I'll be able to sleep better now, knowing that I won't be rocketed to death. Gunston's book is approaching 20 years since it was written; I wonder if a new edition is in the works.

John

(Although there's more "What If" potential here, as in "What if the intended engines had become available, and it was put into service with those 10 RS-82 rockets?". I see it in a four-colour Il-2 camouflage scheme, with HSU and Red Banner emblems on the nose, and "Death to the Fascist Occupiers!" inscriptions on the fuselage...  :D )


Title: Re: Pavla resin parts usable on Yak-6
Post by: K.Ingraham on January 24, 2012, 10:27:21 AM
Now I don't dare to lie down - if I happened to fall asleep, I'd probably dream I was being attacked with 10 RS-82's launched from a Yak-6

Really John, it's more like you need to lay off the garlic habanero buffalo wings just before bedtime.  ;D


Title: Re: Pavla resin parts usable on Yak-6
Post by: John Thompson on January 24, 2012, 02:06:09 PM
Really John, it's more like you need to lay off the garlic habanero buffalo wings just before bedtime.  ;D


Among buffalo wings, I think those are the equivalent of an RS-82 rocket!  :D

John



Title: Re: Pavla resin parts usable on Yak-6
Post by: learstang on January 24, 2012, 06:32:36 PM
Really John, it's more like you need to lay off the garlic habanero buffalo wings just before bedtime.  ;D


Among buffalo wings, I think those are the equivalent of an RS-82 rocket!  :D

John



Or ROFS-132 rockets!  Now we are getting into that most obscure subgenre of humour - VVS humour ("A VVS pilot, an AVMF pilot, and an ADD pilot all walk into this bar...")!

Regards,

Jason


Title: Re: Pavla resin parts usable on Yak-6
Post by: John Thompson on January 24, 2012, 08:27:17 PM

("A VVS pilot, an AVMF pilot, and an ADD pilot all walk into this bar...")!

Regards,

Jason

Don't tell me, let me guess - the AVMF pilot orders an extra-extra-large coffee, black; the VVS pilot orders a Molotov cocktail; and the ADD pilot forgets why he went into the bar in the first place and tries to put his bank card into the pinball machine to make a withdrawal...

John


Title: Re: Pavla resin parts usable on Yak-6
Post by: TISO on January 24, 2012, 11:04:27 PM
I was also puzzled by A-model choice of Yak-6M. I welcomed and bought it anyway. It's a good IMHO accurate and pretty detailed kit. The only put off is the M version the only difference from series machines being the engine cowlings and retractable U/C. One of its engines will find a new meaning of life that is it will end up on A-models Yak-18 (which on my example has a rather crude and mishapen engine cowling). As for A-model selling this kit IMHO it will be bought mostly by the idiots like me who want to convert it to production model. ;) I still haven't managed to get my head around their choice of Yak-8 model (also one off prototype) which is a bit spruiced up Yak-6M.

Just a note on majority of series produced Yak-6 planes U/C legs were fixed in down position and undercarrige bays faired over. Test showed that max speed is approx. 10km/h lower but they managed to get rid of heavyish U/C retraction mechanism which alse improved reliability.


AFAIK all previous kits of Yak-6 are same old Alfa moulds. For conversion purposes of A-model kit they are unusable (engines, props... are horrible) shape of the nose iz wrong (too small and too pointy), no details in the cockpit, a bit wrongly shapen windscreen...

I have old Zvezda issue of this kit which i started to correct but didn't finish (i did mention "the dreaded curse of TISO" didn't i?). I basicly bought 2 Pavla sets for Polikarpov U-2 (U72-30) for this purpose (i got them rather cheap now intended for A-model kit) mostly for engines, engine covers, props and weighted wheels (+ there is no such thing as too many bombs, MG's etc.)
In Pavla set U72-30 for Polikarpov U-2 I mentioned you get this:
(http://www.pavlamodels.cz/images/resiny/air/72-30/72-30_1.jpg)


Title: Re: Pavla resin parts usable on Yak-6
Post by: John Thompson on January 24, 2012, 11:41:06 PM
Hi TISO! The Pavla resin parts look good - it seems like you are on the right path to building a production-version Yak-6. Good luck, and please post some images if you can.

John


Title: Re: Pavla resin parts usable on Yak-6
Post by: TISO on January 24, 2012, 11:42:43 PM
A rather good article and even better set of drawings published by Modelist-Konstruktor (magazines No.5 and No.6 from 1979) and republished by everyone since:
http://hobbyport.ru/avia/yak_6.htm (http://hobbyport.ru/avia/yak_6.htm)


Title: Re: Pavla resin parts usable on Yak-6
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on January 25, 2012, 06:58:32 AM
Hi Tiso,
have you checked the shape of the wings? I think they are different between production version and Yak-6M.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: Pavla resin parts usable on Yak-6
Post by: TISO on January 25, 2012, 06:07:44 PM
Wings and elevators look the same to me but rudder on M is a bit larger and has to be filed down a bit (which i forgot to list among differences). BTW if you look closely at centroplane part (bottom) you can see that there are some faint markings for holes for bomb carriers of NNB. There is also pito tube for production version (crossed out). Also there are 2 versions of this kit.  The one on skies is as transport with passangers seats but the one on wheels has a different back part with gunner doors, MG but no pasanger seats

BTW AML produces a rather nice decal set AML 72 015 "Yak twins" (http://www.aml.cz/en/AD7215-1.html) which has options for 4 Yak-6 planes and a lot of service markings


Title: Re: Pavla resin parts usable on Yak-6
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on January 25, 2012, 07:21:15 PM
Hi Tiso,
look at the drawings of the link. The wing platform of the M is arrow-shaped as that of late Il-2s, while the production version is straight-winged. I think that one has to use the wings of the Alpha with the fuselage of Amodel.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: Pavla resin parts usable on Yak-6
Post by: TISO on January 26, 2012, 04:23:37 PM
Hi Tiso,
look at the drawings of the link. The wing platform of the M is arrow-shaped as that of late Il-2s, while the production version is straight-winged. I think that one has to use the wings of the Alpha with the fuselage of Amodel.
Regards
Massimo
Huh you are right Massimo i need to get myself some glasses. I checked and after 1/2 hour of spewing profanities all around and especcialy in A-models general direction i decided i will try cutting uper wing at reinforcement line (outside of the engines) and together with lower surface reworking it a bit to chenge the angle.



Title: Re: Pavla resin parts usable on Yak-6
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on January 26, 2012, 05:53:52 PM
Hi Tiso,
this is a good way to save the Alfa kit, but all details of the outer wing have to be rebuilt parallel to the flying axis.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: Pavla resin parts usable on Yak-6
Post by: TISO on January 28, 2012, 08:32:58 PM
Hi Tiso,
this is a good way to save the Alfa kit, but all details of the outer wing have to be rebuilt parallel to the flying axis.
Regards
Massimo
Killjoy ;D The moment i tought about correction i started pondering this one. I'll tell you when i find a good solution :P


Title: Re: Pavla resin parts usable on Yak-6
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on January 29, 2012, 09:08:22 AM
Hi Tiso,
there is a very interesting topic on the subject at http://scalemodels.ru/modules/forum/viewtopic_t_36461_start_20.html (http://scalemodels.ru/modules/forum/viewtopic_t_36461_start_20.html). They show a photo of a late Yak-6 that seems to have arrow wings. Perhaps that wing was introduced before the changes on the engines. Besides, there are other images that I didn't know in the previous page. Do you understand what they write about?
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: Pavla resin parts usable on Yak-6
Post by: TISO on January 31, 2012, 08:36:28 PM
http://babelfish.yahoo.com/translate_url?doit=done&tt=url&intl=1&fr=bf-home&trurl=http%3A%2F%2Fscalemodels.ru%2Fmodules%2Fforum%2Fviewtopic_t_36461_start_20.html&lp=ru_en&btnTrUrl=Translate (http://babelfish.yahoo.com/translate_url?doit=done&tt=url&intl=1&fr=bf-home&trurl=http%3A%2F%2Fscalemodels.ru%2Fmodules%2Fforum%2Fviewtopic_t_36461_start_20.html&lp=ru_en&btnTrUrl=Translate)


Title: Re: Pavla resin parts usable on Yak-6
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on January 31, 2012, 10:14:33 PM
There is this text:
Quote
The plant of ╧47 several times transferred the periods of the production of its modernized aircraft and constructed it only in May, and during the tests Yak-6 ╧3014347 proved to be in July 1943. (they passed on July 6 to 14, the chief engineer major [M].[D].[Yaskov], the chief pilot - Major [A].[V].[Sinelnikov]).

From series machines it differed in terms of the following (selectively):

Wing is made sectional.
Are increased the sweepback of the outer planes of wing from 9 " to 15╟ and dihedral from 8╟ 50 ' to 10╟ 50 '.
Is increased the area of ailerons from 1,93 [m]2 to 2,13 [m]2.
Is changed the angle of stabilizer setting (- 3╟ instead of 0╟).
From the right side of fuselage is made folding cargo hatch a size of 850x1100 mm, which is opened inward.
In the outer planes of wing are established two additional fuel tanks on 90 l (total capacity - 560 l instead of 380 l).

The discharge headers are established on the motors.
For the gyrohorizon is established one large Venturi tube in the flow of screw instead of three on to starboard.
Pilot's seat is elevated on 45 mm, the back of seat is deflected back on 40 mm.

Here the second

In summer 1943[g]. the plant prepared that modernized Yak-6 (head of ╧014347), which had to become standard for a series from 01.10.43[g]. Preparatory works began, but on September 25 was released the order, on which the plant was transferred into the production of the aircraft of cabbage soups -2. Production Yak-6 ceased. Entire plant of ╧47 let out in 1943 224 (according to other data - 217) Yak-6.




But this is clearly the photo of an arrow-winged plane with traditional engine configuration, and it's clearly operative with N-N
(http://scalemodels.ru/images/2012/01/1327169901_36-2.jpg)
So, probably the arrow wing was introduced before the production ceased. There is still some hope for the Amodel!
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: Pavla resin parts usable on Yak-6
Post by: KL on January 31, 2012, 10:50:08 PM
But this is clearly the photo of an arrow-winged plane  with traditional engine configuration, and it's clearly operative with N-N
(http://scalemodels.ru/images/2012/01/1327169901_36-2.jpg)
So, probably the arrow wing was introduced before the production ceased. There is still some hope for the Amodel!

It's not so clear - French N-N Yak-6 should be a regular straight wing plane.  The brake in trailing edge accounts for pronounced "V" of the outer wing panels.
Trailing edge of Yak-6M was a straight line rom wingtip to wingtip when viewed from above.  Following is Yak-6M in spurious camouflage and armed with non existing rear fireing MG

(http://karopka.ru/upload/iblock/294/photo_9_1289694186.JPG)
(http://karopka.ru/upload/iblock/4dc/photo_5_1289694186.JPG)
(http://karopka.ru/upload/iblock/278/photo_3_1289694186.JPG)


Title: Re: Pavla resin parts usable on Yak-6
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on February 01, 2012, 08:35:48 AM

Hi Tiso,
I have to agree. The perspective lines meet the fuselage side in the places expected for an usual Yak-6.
(http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/yak-6/yak-6camo/yak-6atest.jpg)
Pity, so the wing of Amodel is unuseful, I fear.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: Pavla resin parts usable on Yak-6
Post by: KL on February 01, 2012, 11:56:03 PM
A rather good article  and even better set of drawings published by Modelist-Konstruktor (magazines No.5 and No.6 from 1979) and republished by everyone since:
http://hobbyport.ru/avia/yak_6.htm (http://hobbyport.ru/avia/yak_6.htm)

Text published in Modelist-Konstruktor in 1979 is typical for Soviet times - it's misleading in many ways!  Thanks to this text many still believe that Yak-6 was some kind of "wunderwaffe".  In reality Yak-6 program wasn't a success:

check text at http://www.airwar.ru/enc/cww2/yak6.html
-plane could not be used in it's designated role - as a light night bomber
-it wasn't easy to fly, many deficencies noted during prototype tests remained on series planes throughout the production
-factories asigned with it's production had many problems even in starting production
-its use was limited: it was used mainly as a communication plane

after less than a year in production and a modest number of planes made, Yak 6 was discontinued.  It was replaced on production lines by Shche-2 and Po-2.  Shche-2 was better transport and Po-2 was a better night light bomber...


Title: Re: Pavla resin parts usable on Yak-6
Post by: KL on February 02, 2012, 06:20:48 PM
Funny online translation:

There is this text:
Quote
...Preparatory works began, but on September 25 was released the order, on which the plant was transferred into the production of the aircraft of cabbage soups -2. Production Yak-6 ceased.


"The aircraft of cabbage soups - 2" is Shcherbakov Shche-2 !!! :D
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ru/1/17/She-2.jpg)

here mixedup with shchi cabage soup
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4a/Schi.jpg/800px-Schi.jpg)

a side note:
In German, the two-letter word щи becomes eight letters, Schtschi.  Same with the Shche-2

Schtscherbakow Schtsche-2.   :o Check at http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schtscherbakow_Schtsche-2  :)


Title: Re: Pavla resin parts usable on Yak-6
Post by: John Thompson on February 02, 2012, 07:32:19 PM
That looks delicious! And the parsley appears close to AMT-4... :D

John


Title: Re: Pavla resin parts usable on Yak-6
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on February 02, 2012, 11:30:48 PM
Funny, I've noted the same translation in many other occasions too.
Regards
Massimo