Sovietwarplanes

Great Patriotic War Aviation => Lend-lease planes => Topic started by: Pascal on June 13, 2012, 12:40:04 AM



Title: Airacobra Mk.I, Ivan Gaidaenko
Post by: Pascal on June 13, 2012, 12:40:04 AM
Hi everybody,

My new project is an American plane with a RAF camo and red stars...

I choose Gaidaenko's aircraft because I've recently read his chapter in this book:

(http://img4.hostingpics.net/pics/898230drabkin.jpg) (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=898230drabkin.jpg)

and I liked it!

I've found a profile...

(http://img4.hostingpics.net/pics/555477gaidayn9.jpg) (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=555477gaidayn9.jpg)

...and this pic:

(http://img4.hostingpics.net/pics/943142gaidayn1.jpg) (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=943142gaidayn1.jpg)

Could you help me to find some other pics and data about this plane (serial AH 636)?

Thank you in advance,

Pascal


Title: Re: Airacobra Mk.I, Ivan Gaidaenko
Post by: Troy Smith on June 13, 2012, 05:44:52 AM
HI Pascal

can't help with this  plane specifically, but am posting some links to info on RAF Airacobras and their camo.  [and I don'r really see any RAF camo features in the above photo though] 

Also I'm now very cautious about trusting a profile drawing, for example this shows the remains of the RAF roundel, where it seems that standard British practice was to overpaint RAF markings and apply red stars before delivery.

There are photo in Red Stars vol.4 of Spitfire VB's in Iran having the roundels oversprayed and stars applied.
eg after stars applied, note stars on wing and just visible new paint/overpainted roundels.

(http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/english/articles/spit/Spitfire_002_IWM%20E23983.jpg)
Quote
Supermarin Spitfire Vb being prepared for delivery to the Soviet Union at Abadan, Iran in 1943.

There are some articles on this blogspot by Nick Millman, which should be of use, one specifically about ex-RAF Airacobra's in the VVS

http://amair4raf.blogspot.co.uk/search?q=airacobra

finally, links to a pdf of this
(http://books.gigaimg.com/avaxhome/5a/6c/000f6c5a_medium.jpeg)

old, published in about 1970,he  and unavailable since then but very good.

various download links here

http://ebookee.org/Camouflage-amp-Markings-Number-12-Tomahawk-Airacobra-amp-Mohawk-RAF-Northern-Europe-1936-45_343846.html
Let me know if you are not sure how to download and un-rar files.

there were 12 on the RAF in this series and 10 on the USAAF, all well worth a read, a LOT of useful info in them, like camoflage diagrams and stencilling  and all are available for download!!

As many of these types ended up in VVS service and were rarely repainted they are of great use to the VVS modeller too.

HTH
T


Title: Re: Airacobra Mk.I, Ivan Gaidaenko
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on June 13, 2012, 09:46:43 AM
Hi Pascal, hi Troy

Quote
[and I don'r really see any RAF camo features in the above photo though] 


I see a camouflage on the photo

(http://img4.hostingpics.net/pics/943142gaidayn1.jpg)

it resembles to this.

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_nxN_vjldtng/S9Bt7n96gFI/AAAAAAAABvs/9Gd26pETgwk/s320/Russian_Cobra_3.jpg)

Just the trapezoidal plate with the stars looks different than on the profile.

Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: Airacobra Mk.I, Ivan Gaidaenko
Post by: Pascal on June 13, 2012, 03:11:06 PM
Thank you, Troy!

So many new questions... :-\

Were the RAF markings overpainted?
What camo: Day Fighter Scheme or Temperate Land Scheme?

I have an authentic copy of

(http://books.gigaimg.com/avaxhome/5a/6c/000f6c5a_medium.jpeg)

...and I agree with your words: "old, published in about 1970,he  and unavailable since then but very good."

Massimo, I see a camouflage too!

Regards,

Pascal


Title: Re: Airacobra Mk.I, Ivan Gaidaenko
Post by: KL on June 13, 2012, 10:39:15 PM
Hi Pascal,
first question is:  "green/brown" or "gray/green"?

M.Bikov in Russian edition of Drabkin's book provides following profile:

(http://militera.lib.ru/memo/russian/drabkin_ay5/82.jpg)

Nick Millman explains:  "The nose stencils on rectangles of the original factory undersurface colour, indicating an early production aircraft with the high demarcation applied by Bell. The stencils were masked off when the RAF MU applied the DFS and filled in the Sky areas on nose and tail with the upper surface colours (also the reason why the camouflage demarcation in these areas on some aircraft is different from the standard scheme)."

Gaidaenko's Airacobra was repainted in Britain in green/gray scheme; it was similar to

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_nxN_vjldtng/S9Bt7n96gFI/AAAAAAAABvs/9Gd26pETgwk/s1600/Russian_Cobra_3.jpg)

profile you posted better represents colours!!!

(http://img4.hostingpics.net/pics/555477gaidayn9.jpg)

Cheers,
KL


Title: Re: Airacobra Mk.I, Ivan Gaidaenko
Post by: xan on June 13, 2012, 11:42:40 PM
I know someone who will be happy with your answer!
Pascal was quite sure he had to paint it in template scheme and was a little disapointed!
Mister K, your intervention are always essentials!

Xan


Title: Re: Airacobra Mk.I, Ivan Gaidaenko
Post by: Pascal on June 13, 2012, 11:52:57 PM
Thank you, KL!

Gaidaenko's Airacobra was repainted in Britain in green/gray scheme

How I like these words! Because these colours are pleasing me very much. But I've another question yet: has Bikov's scheme representation been applied on any Airacobra, or not?

Regards,

Pascal

PS: Xan knows me... ;D


Title: Re: Airacobra Mk.I, Ivan Gaidaenko
Post by: KL on June 15, 2012, 12:54:40 AM
(http://books.gigaimg.com/avaxhome/5a/6c/000f6c5a_medium.jpeg)

Page 281 is missing in my pdf download!  >:(

I would apprecaite it if someone scans (300dpi) and posts (or email me) this page.

Thanks in advance,  :)
KL


Title: Re: Airacobra Mk.I, Ivan Gaidaenko
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on June 15, 2012, 09:18:00 AM
Hi,
it's missing on my download too.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: Airacobra Mk.I, Ivan Gaidaenko
Post by: Troy Smith on June 15, 2012, 03:49:56 PM
I think there is note of a missing page...darn, that's annoying.

But I have a paper copy, will scan when I get chance, will be a few days though as book and scanner are in different places....

Apart from the photo above, is there any other evidence for the profile drawing, eg records of the aircraft serial and bort number?

cheers
T


Title: Re: Airacobra Mk.I, Ivan Gaidaenko
Post by: KL on June 24, 2012, 05:45:14 AM
A couple of colour photos:

In original factory camouflage
(http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/album/watermark.php?file=872)

Re-painted in Briatain in gray-green camouflage scheme
(http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l23/chris7421/Airacobra.jpg)


Title: Re: Airacobra Mk.I, Ivan Gaidaenko
Post by: KL on June 24, 2012, 06:09:28 AM
15 high rez photos at http://www.flightglobal.com/airspace/media/historical1939-1945/default.aspx?mq=601+Squadron

(http://www.flightglobal.com/airspace/media/historical1939-1945/images/15031/fa-18212s-jpg.jpg)

(http://www.flightglobal.com/airspace/media/historical1939-1945/images/15028/fa-18209s-jpg.jpg)

(http://www.flightglobal.com/airspace/media/historical1939-1945/images/15020/fa-18201s-jpg.jpg)

(http://www.flightglobal.com/airspace/media/historical1939-1945/images/15027/fa-18208s-jpg.jpg)


Title: Re: Airacobra Mk.I, Ivan Gaidaenko
Post by: Pascal on October 19, 2012, 03:30:13 PM
Hi!

It's me with a new question about "my" Airacobra...

Gaidaenko says that he has removed the four wing guns on his plane. So, how then could seem the wing edge , after the removal of  weapons? A new fairing, without holes, couldn't replace the original one? Or just a piece of fabric, maybe?

Do you have an idea? Thanks to you.

Regards,

Pascal



Title: Re: Airacobra Mk.I, Ivan Gaidaenko
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on October 19, 2012, 08:47:34 PM
Hi Pascal,
I suppose that they closed the holes with a piece of adhesive tape then repainted over it. It should be nearly unvisible on the model.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: Airacobra Mk.I, Ivan Gaidaenko
Post by: 66misos on October 24, 2012, 10:59:30 AM
Hi Pascal,

Here are pictures from http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/english/articles/romanenko/p-39 (http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/english/articles/romanenko/p-39)
This is Capt. I. V. Bochkov also from the 19th GIAP in front of his P-400 Aircobra I number "16" in East Carelia in 1942:
(http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/english/articles/romanenko/p-39/Bochkov.jpg)
The color around the fuselage red star seems to be different from camouflage color - looks like overpainted RAF roundel. Not sure whether red star has white outline or not (common since 1943, not in 1941/42).
Another Airacobra I aircraft of 19 GIAP (photo from Artem Drabkin collection) :
(http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/english/articles/romanenko/p-39/2-02.jpg)

This is Airacobra I BX168 "White15" of Guards Capt. Bochkov, 19 GIAP:
(http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/english/articles/romanenko/p-39/airacobra1_bx168.jpg)
This profile supports green/grey camo and visible overpainting of the RAF roundels. But no. "15" instead of "16" and no red tail tip. Red stars with thin black outline.

Another profile of the Bochkov's plane from 19GIAP, but green/brown now and red stars with white oultline. But on the other side it shows no. "16" (yellow or white?) and the red tail tip as on the b&w photo and also overpainted RAF roundel.
(http://i16.tinypic.com/2qk5e08.jpg)

The b&w picture posted by KL on June 13, 2012:
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_nxN_vjldtng/S9Bt7n96gFI/AAAAAAAABvs/9Gd26pETgwk/s320/Russian_Cobra_3.jpg)
shows red star with thin white outline plus repainting aound the star is clearly visible - very sharp demacration line and color different from original camo color.

Note the long thin barrel of the 20mm cannon in the propeller spinner.

If I have to make a decission as a modeller now, I would probably go for:
- grey/green camo,
- RAF roundels visibly overpainted,
- red stars with white outline,
- white "16"
- red tail tip.

Regards,
     66misos


Title: Re: Airacobra Mk.I, Ivan Gaidaenko
Post by: KL on October 24, 2012, 07:38:04 PM
Hi Pascal,
on following photos is probably the best documented 19 giap Aircobra - Fomchenkov's Aircobra No "12"
(http://www.airforce.ru/history/modern/19giap/19_giap-3.jpg)
(http://www.litmir.net/BookBinary/110719/1333212006/image058.jpg)
Regiment commander G. Reifshneider
(http://lib.rus.ec/i/17/380017/i_084.jpg)
Kutahov?
(http://airaces.narod.ru/all1/kutahov12.jpg)
with smaller No "12"
(http://lib.rus.ec/i/17/380017/i_085.jpg)

HTH,
KL


Title: Re: Airacobra Mk.I, Ivan Gaidaenko
Post by: AC26 on October 24, 2012, 08:50:09 PM
If I have to make a decission as a modeller now, I would probably go for:
- grey/green camo,
- RAF roundels visibly overpainted,
- red stars with white outline,
- white "16"
- red tail tip.
Hi!

The spinner looks to be silver for me, like the Hyryl? Airacobra. Maybed the number 16 too?

Cheers,

AaCee


Title: Re: Airacobra Mk.I, Ivan Gaidaenko
Post by: 66misos on October 25, 2012, 08:56:57 AM
Hi AaCee,

photos of Airacobras from 19 GIAP shows former RAF P-400 with propeller in "standard" RAF colors - spinner of Sky color while black propeller blades with yellow tips and yellow stencils. And with 20mm cannon.

Number "12" at this photo:
(http://www.airforce.ru/history/modern/19giap/19_giap-3.jpg)
seems to be not sprayed over the mask but hand brushed - like white areas on the Galchenko's LaGG-3:
(http://i1063.photobucket.com/albums/t518/66misos/LaGG-3/Galchenko16b.jpg)
In case of no. "16" I would go for white.

Airacobra at Hyryl? Museum is former US P-39Q-15BE with 37mm cannon and Aeroproducts propeller - grey blades with black stencils and without yellow tips. Spinner seems to be repainted to silver.
(http://www.museo-opas.fi/sites/default/files/styles/museo-slide/public/museum/Ilmatorjuntamuseo_Airacobra.jpg)

Number "26" is silver with more homogenous coverage then "12":
(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk313/petriola/DSCN0282.jpg)

Regards,
     66misos


Title: Re: Airacobra Mk.I, Ivan Gaidaenko
Post by: KL on October 25, 2012, 08:01:48 PM
Hi 66misos/AaCee,

Quote
photos of Airacobras from 19 GIAP shows former RAF P-400 with propeller in "standard" RAF colors - spinner of Sky color while black propeller blades with yellow tips and yellow stencils. And with 20mm cannon.

Correct, spinner should be in original Sky Type S (duck egg colour), propeller was black Curtiss and the cannon was long barrel 20mm Hispano.  Same as here:
(http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l23/chris7421/Airacobra.jpg)

Quote
- red tail tip.

IMHO, no red tail tips.  Special tactical markings were very unlikely in 1942.  Those were used primarilly for formation flying, when many different units operated in relatively small area, like eastern Europe in 1944/45 or southern Finland during the Winter War.

Quote
Number "12" at this photo:
(http://www.airforce.ru/history/modern/19giap/19_giap-3.jpg)
seems to be not sprayed over the mask but hand brushed

Number "12" is definitely hand brushed - the same for all other plane numbers in 19 giap...  IMHO, number "12" was probably silver.  On most photos it looks white and only in the photo above (in spec lighting conditions) brush strokes are visible.  It's the same with the number "26" on Hyryl? Museum P-39Q - number is hand painted with silver paint.  The paint itself is very reflective and very, very fine grained - it's actually very hard to get its metallic lustre on photos.  Usually it looks white on photos.  Some paint manufacturers call such paints "Metallic White"...

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk313/petriola/DSCN0282.jpg)

Finally, propeller on Hyryl? Museum P-39Q is not original.  one original propeller blade is displayed under the plane.
Silver nose and vertical tail were standard for Leningrad military district in 1944.

HTH,
KL


Title: Re: Airacobra Mk.I, Ivan Gaidaenko
Post by: 66misos on October 26, 2012, 11:35:37 AM
Hi,
there seems to be several trues, e.g. several P-39 modifications and marking versions in time.

1.) Here is RAF Airacobra with 6 exhaust stack (RAF version):
(http://www.flightglobal.com/airspace/media/historical1939-1945/images/15031/fa-18212s-jpg.jpg)


2.) Airacobra with:
- 12 exhaust stack,
- big white or silver no. "12",
- red star on fuselage with thin white or silver outline,
- victory stars on fuselage:
(http://www.airforce.ru/history/modern/19giap/19_giap-3.jpg)
(http://airaces.narod.ru/all1/kutahov12.jpg)


3.) Airacobra with:
- 12 exhaust stack,
- big white or silver no. "12",
- red star on fuselage with thin white or silver outline but on the different position (see panel line through the fuselage red star),
- different shape of dark camo color under the fuselage red star,
- no victory stars
- area under the left underwing red star seem to be overpainted (see lighter color orond the star then grey camo color):
(http://lib.rus.ec/i/17/380017/i_084.jpg)


4. Airacobra with:
- 12 exhaust stack,
- small white or silver no. "12", different font,
- red star on the fuselage with thin black outline,
(http://lib.rus.ec/i/17/380017/i_085.jpg)


5.) Two Airacobraa with:
   Front Airacobra:
-6 exhaust stack (US style),
   Back Airacobra:
- big white or silver number on the tail,
- no white outline of the fuselage red star visible, e.g. should be red star with black outline,
(http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/english/articles/romanenko/p-39/2-02.jpg)


6.) Airacobra with:
-6 exhaust stack (US style),
- red star on fuselage with thin white or silver outline,
- area under the fuselage red star seem to be overpainted,
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_nxN_vjldtng/S9Bt7n96gFI/AAAAAAAABvs/9Gd26pETgwk/s1600/Russian_Cobra_3.jpg)


7.) Airacobra with:
- 12 exhaust stack,
- color of no. "16" not solid, similiar to "12",
- outline of the right underwing red star (just right from pilot right arm) is too dark to be white, but lighter than color around and too light to be black; is it silver?
- red star on fuselage at the same position as on big "12" with victory stars (see panel line above star), outline look same as on the right underwing star - dirty white or silver in the wing shadow? See how evident is white/silver outline on the other photos
- tail tip above "16" painted - red or different color?
(http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/english/articles/romanenko/p-39/Bochkov.jpg)


regards,
     66misos


Title: Re: Airacobra Mk.I, Ivan Gaidaenko
Post by: Pascal on October 26, 2012, 03:33:21 PM
Thank you to all of you!

But, except for Massimo, you don't say nothing about my question: how are the wing guns holes covered? I like Massimo's point of vue...

KL and Misos, do you really means that numbers and stars outlines could be silver? Like the AML decals?

Regards,

Pascal


Title: Re: Airacobra Mk.I, Ivan Gaidaenko
Post by: learstang on October 26, 2012, 05:58:15 PM
Pascal, silver was probably used more than we think.  In fact, where some profiles have yellow, silver is probably more appropriate.  Silver was an approved colour for markings, but yellow wasn't.  In some black and white photographs, silver and yellow can look very similar, and I think people have made the wrong conclusion that the borts and/or star outlines were yellow instead of silver.  Personally, I'm rather sceptical of much usage of yellow early in the war, as it was the Axis identifying colour, and there was the possibility of mistaken identity (you'll notice that the Germans didn't use much red on the Eastern Front).  I think its usage was probably rare (again, I'm talking about early in the war - towards the end of the war, from 1944 on, yellow was used on spinners to indentify which flight a particular aeroplane belonged to [this was done with the Il-2, for example], but by then the Red Air Force was using large formations, the Luftwaffe wasn't much of a threat anymore, and the Red Air Force was more concerned with keeping its formations in order than it was of mistaken identity).

Regards,

Jason


Title: Re: Airacobra Mk.I, Ivan Gaidaenko
Post by: KL on October 26, 2012, 07:29:14 PM
But, except for Massimo, you don't say nothing about my question: how are the wing guns holes covered? I like Massimo's point of vue...

It is also posible that Gaidaenko actually reffers to later P-39Qs with wing guns in containers.  Those containers were usually removed from VVS Airacobras.  Check tread about Pokrishkin's Airacobras at  http://sovietwarplanes.com/board/index.php?topic=1367.30


KL and Misos, do you really means that numbers and stars outlines could be silver? Like the AML decals?
Yes, silver was commonly used for numbers - one of the numbers of Musee de l'Air Yak-3 is also silver:  number 25 applied in Saratov factory.  one of the Red Stars (orange star)  is also outlined in silver...

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7028/6464947669_30c2fd50aa_b.jpg)

KL


Title: Re: Airacobra Mk.I, Ivan Gaidaenko
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on October 26, 2012, 07:45:00 PM
Hi all,
yellow was common for markings before the war, and probably was used for brief time at its beginning, then it was nearly abandoned for years. Probably a yellow number can't make too much confusion with a German plane, but a yellow spinner was really risky for friendly fire.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: Airacobra Mk.I, Ivan Gaidaenko
Post by: learstang on October 26, 2012, 10:53:10 PM
Regarding the wing guns, I have a question - how often were the guns in the wings removed, as opposed to the underwing .50's, as in the P-39Q's?  I seem to recall reading, perhaps on this site, perhaps on this very thread, that the wing guns were normally retained, whilst the guns in the underwing pods were often (usually?) removed.  This is of some interest to me as I'm currently trying to finish up two P-39's, one a -P, with the internally mounted wing guns still in place, and one a -Q, with the underwing pods removed.

Regards,

Jason


Title: Re: Airacobra Mk.I, Ivan Gaidaenko
Post by: Pascal on October 26, 2012, 11:03:13 PM
It is also posible that Gaidaenko actually reffers to later P-39Qs with wing guns in containers.

Thanks, Konstantin!

But Gaidaenko reffers to Airacobra I, with the 20 mm cannon, two nose guns and four guns in the wings... that he says he had removed.

Are you sure for the number 25?

(http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/2456703525.jpg) (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=2456703525.jpg)

Here are the 21 and 18 numbers:

(http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/9234142118.jpg) (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=9234142118.jpg)

Yes, the grey under paint is not the same...

Jason, Gaidaenko says:

"Cobras were light and armed with a 20mm gun, two large-calibre machine guns and four machine guns of rifle calibre in the wings. I removed the wing machine guns from my Cobra and it was a perfect plane, even in vertical fights."

Thank you for your communications,

Pascal


Title: Re: Airacobra Mk.I, Ivan Gaidaenko
Post by: learstang on October 26, 2012, 11:26:33 PM
Is bort 18 in silver?  It's definitely a different colour than bort 21.

Regards,

Jason


Title: Re: Airacobra Mk.I, Ivan Gaidaenko
Post by: KL on October 26, 2012, 11:56:59 PM
"25" is silver.  As I said before, silver paint is very reflective and in most photos it looks white.  Flash makes things even worse. A real nightmare if you want to show silver on your photos.

Both "21" and "18" are white.  "21" was oversprayed with gray-greenish paint and then over it "18" was sprayed.  Gray-green and white "18" were probably sprayed by the French, on their way back to France, most likely using some western paints.

HTH,
KL


Title: Re: Airacobra Mk.I, Ivan Gaidaenko
Post by: Pascal on October 27, 2012, 12:18:09 AM
Gray-green and white "18" were probably sprayed by the French, on their way back to France, most likely using some western paints.

I think the same thing.

Go for silver! ;)

This is my model, in progress:

(http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/987226croix.jpg) (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=987226croix.jpg)

Thank you.

Pascal


Title: Re: Airacobra Mk.I, Ivan Gaidaenko
Post by: learstang on October 27, 2012, 01:00:38 AM
Looks good, Pascal!  Which kit is this?  I just saw your answer about the wing guns, at least on this particular aeroplane, thank you!

Regards,

Jason


Title: Re: Airacobra Mk.I, Ivan Gaidaenko
Post by: KL on October 27, 2012, 05:29:38 AM
[Are you sure for the number 25?

(http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/2456703525.jpg) (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=2456703525.jpg)

Is it silver???  ???  You have probably seen it...


Title: Re: Airacobra Mk.I, Ivan Gaidaenko
Post by: Pascal on October 27, 2012, 05:26:04 PM
No, I have not seen it, this pic comes from a friend... I'll ask him! But I believe you: I've said before that I see a different grey with white, probably because it is silver...

Jason, the kit is 1/48 Hasegawa, and it is very nice to assembly.

Pascal


Title: Re: Airacobra Mk.I, Ivan Gaidaenko
Post by: learstang on October 27, 2012, 05:51:31 PM

Jason, the kit is 1/48 Hasegawa, and it is very nice to assembly.

Pascal

Thank you for the information, Pascal!  I didn't realise Hasegawa had one in 1/48th scale, though to be honest, 1/48th is not my scale.  I'm more interested in 1/72nd scale.  Nonetheless, I'll watch this build with interest, as I'm a big fan of the Soviet Kobras.

Regards,

Jason


Title: Re: Airacobra Mk.I, Ivan Gaidaenko
Post by: 66misos on October 29, 2012, 02:06:57 PM
Hi,

have you any idea what colors were used to overpaint RAF roundels on the fuselage/upperwings (green AMT-4?) and underwings (blue AMT-7?) ?
Similiar colors was probably used also for P-39 delivered directly from USA with Olive Drab on the upper surfaces and grey underwings.
Thak you.

Regards,
     66misos


Title: Re: Airacobra Mk.I, Ivan Gaidaenko
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on October 29, 2012, 02:24:11 PM
Hi Misos,
if I remember well, green was used to delete the white fields on the undersurfaces of the P-39 preserved in a Finnish museum.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: Airacobra Mk.I, Ivan Gaidaenko
Post by: KL on October 29, 2012, 05:48:09 PM
if I remember well, green was used to delete the white fields on the undersurfaces of the P-39 preserved in a Finnish museum.

white discs on the undersurfaces of the P-39 preserved in the Finnish AAA Museum are overpainted with grayish blue-green paint.  Fuselage white discs were overpainted with light gray-green paint.  Probably both are non-aviation oil paints.  It is important to note that different paints/shades were used for top and for undersides.
I wouldn't exclude use of spec. aviation oil paints to cover those white discs or USAF/RAF markings.

HTH,
KL 


Title: Re: Airacobra Mk.I, Ivan Gaidaenko
Post by: Troy Smith on October 29, 2012, 06:18:41 PM
Hi,

have you any idea what colors were used to overpaint RAF roundels on the fuselage/upperwings (green AMT-4?) and underwings (blue AMT-7?) ?
Similiar colors was probably used also for P-39 delivered directly from USA with Olive Drab on the upper surfaces and grey underwings.
Thak you.

Regards,
     66misos

Hi Looked thorugh the thread, after a part writing a post

If your doing 'white 16' as in the pic further down...

But first, the pic bewlow seems to show an example of what I'm saying didn't happen much...

The b&w picture posted by KL on June 13, 2012:
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_nxN_vjldtng/S9Bt7n96gFI/AAAAAAAABvs/9Gd26pETgwk/s320/Russian_Cobra_3.jpg)
shows red star with thin white outline plus repainting aound the star is clearly visible - very sharp demacration line and color different from original camo color.

Note the long thin barrel of the 20mm cannon in the propeller spinner.

If I have to make a decission as a modeller now, I would probably go for:
- grey/green camo,
- RAF roundels visibly overpainted,
- red stars with white outline,
- white "16"
- red tail tip.

Regards,
     66misos


BUT, if it's this plane...
Here are pictures from http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/english/articles/romanenko/p-39 (http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/english/articles/romanenko/p-39)
This is Capt. I. V. Bochkov also from the 19th GIAP in front of his P-400 Aircobra I number "16" in East Carelia in 1942:
(http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/english/articles/romanenko/p-39/Bochkov.jpg)
The color around the fuselage red star seems to be different from camouflage color - looks like overpainted RAF roundel. Not sure whether red star has white outline or not (common since 1943, not in 1941/42).
This is exactly what i mean by the rest of the post....

It's quite possible they roundels were overpainted and red stars applied BEFORE delivery to the VVS, so RAF colours would have been used.
Looking through the thread agin I note I already posted some of this, but without a good photo...
I note you posted this
this applies to Day Fighter scheme (DFS) of Dark Green, Ocean Grey (or mixed grey) and Medium Sea Grey.
If in DFS then the match would have been good, but if in the original factory applied delivery scheme for the Airacobra which was the Temperate Land Scheme (TLS) of Dark Green, Dark Earth and Sky., then as the Airacobras were in US equivalent paint, then there would be a slight difference. [see the Boston below]..or
(http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/english/articles/romanenko/p-39/Bochkov.jpg)
also see - http://amair4raf.blogspot.co.uk/search?q=airacobra

Note the sky turn up visible just before the tailplane
and
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_nxN_vjldtng/S9BrUjeGD1I/AAAAAAAABvM/koss4kkGRV8/s1600/Russian_Cobra_1.jpg)
Quote
The well known photograph below shows either Ivan Bochkov or Efim Krivosheev in front of the latter's Cobra Bort # 16 of the 19 GIAP. The under surface colour sweep up under the tail may just be seen and this aircraft was almost certainly still in the Bell delivery colours of Du Pont Dark Green, Dark Earth and Sky.

There are photos of Spitfires being remarked like this in Iran, here they are after repainting.  If you look carefully you can see where the RAF roundels have been overpainted. Note upperwing stars, and black border on fuselage stars
(http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/english/articles/spit/Spitfire_002_IWM%20E23983.jpg)
Quote
Supermarine Spitfire Vb being prepared for delivery to the Soviet Union at Abadan, Iran in 1943.

Bearing this in mind then it explains why the painted out roundels are often in a similar shade of paint.

for example, here is an ex-raf Boston, note the carefully painted out roundel, and the matched camo demarcation line, though the Boston was painted by Douglas to RAF specifications there were slight differences in the colours.  There are photos of Boston at the factory in the US that shows this, though the difference is small as the colours were to British specifications.
[ see Nick Millmans blogspot for more on this - http://amair4raf.blogspot.co.uk]
(http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/photogallery/boston/b-10.jpg)

and why these Hurricanes have upperwing stars.
(http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z27/marluc_foto/Hurricane/HurricaneVVS_white16.jpg)

(http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z27/marluc_foto/Hurricane/HurricaneII_white14_2.jpg)
Though this plane shows signs of extensive repainting of the rear fuselage and fin...that's another topic.

Have a look at your source picture, and make a best guess.   
Certainly the VVS painted out the US applied white discs,  but when the red stars were to a VVS standard they were used as supplied it seems, look at later B-25 in VVS specified camo or later Kingcobra deliveries for example.

Finally, in the post I took you quote from, you show some profiles...well, i'm now of the belief
 NEVER TRUST A PROFILE WITHOUT A SUPPORTING PHOTO!!!!!

glad i had a look through this again for the pic of bort 12 Konstantin posted
Cheers
T


Title: Re: Airacobra Mk.I, Ivan Gaidaenko
Post by: AC26 on October 29, 2012, 08:44:35 PM
white discs on the undersurfaces of the P-39 preserved in the Finnish AAA Museum are overpainted with grayish blue-green paint.  Fuselage white discs were overpainted with light gray-green paint.
Hi,

I'd say underwing overpainting to be a grayish green, but the fuselage overpainting is made with adark green color.

Cheers,

AaCee


Title: Re: Airacobra Mk.I, Ivan Gaidaenko
Post by: KL on October 29, 2012, 09:12:35 PM
white discs on the undersurfaces of the P-39 preserved in the Finnish AAA Museum are overpainted with grayish blue-green paint.  Fuselage white discs were overpainted with light gray-green paint.

I'd say underwing overpainting to be a grayish green, but the fuselage overpainting is made with adark green color.
AaCee

Yes, I should have checked photos.  Surrounding of the fuselage disc is light gray-green...
But the fact that different paint was used for underside discs remains.  There was an attempt (not allways succesfull) to match colour with the surrounding American colour.

(http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6057/5868555475_8f4663f0c2_z.jpg)

(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5149/5868557395_3e46849012_z.jpg)


Title: Re: Airacobra Mk.I, Ivan Gaidaenko
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on October 29, 2012, 10:50:54 PM
Looking at Hurricane n.14, I think to see a slogan on two lines in front of the star, but looks unreadable.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: Airacobra Mk.I, Ivan Gaidaenko
Post by: Troy Smith on October 30, 2012, 12:53:51 AM
Looking at Hurricane n.14, I think to see a slogan on two lines in front of the star, but looks unreadable.
Regards
Massimo
Hi Massimo
there is another photo of n.14 in this thread here.
http://sovietwarplanes.com/board/index.php?topic=877.0
which is clearer.  This side of the Hurricane has another rectangular access panel behind the first fabric covered panel, which look as if they have been replaced, or possibly left in the original finish, but hard to tell.
Also if you look at the picture of n.16 above you can see that two of the wing gun access panels are replacements.

cheers
T


Title: Re: Airacobra Mk.I, Ivan Gaidaenko
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on October 30, 2012, 08:09:49 PM
H Troy, I see the panel, but I think to see a writing too. Who knows if anyone can recognize some words of it?
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: Airacobra Mk.I, Ivan Gaidaenko
Post by: AC26 on October 30, 2012, 09:29:37 PM
white discs on the undersurfaces of the P-39 preserved in the Finnish AAA Museum are overpainted with grayish blue-green paint.  Fuselage white discs were overpainted with light gray-green paint.

I'd say underwing overpainting to be a grayish green, but the fuselage overpainting is made with adark green color.
AaCee

Yes, I should have checked photos.  Surrounding of the fuselage disc is light gray-green...
But the fact that different paint was used for underside discs remains.  There was an attempt (not allways succesfull) to match colour with the surrounding American colour.
The surrounding in the fuselage is overpainting of the US national insignia bars.

Also, this is a composite airframe having wings from an other plane.

And as there were discussion about the prop. Exhibition blades are made fronm glass.fibre.

Cheers,

AaCee


Title: Re: Airacobra Mk.I, Ivan Gaidaenko
Post by: 66misos on November 06, 2012, 08:15:43 PM
Hi,

here http://www.16va.be/19_gviap_eng_part1.html (http://www.16va.be/19_gviap_eng_part1.html) I found interesting info about 19 GIAP and:

(http://www.16va.be/css/photos/19_gviap/p-39_16.jpg)
No. "16" with the different number layout and re-painted(?) tail rudder, without painetd tail tip and different color of propeller blades. Note fuselage red star with thin white outline.

Seems Airacobras in 19 GIAP (at least no. "12" and "16") were repainted within their carrier or there were old Airacobras replaced by new ones using the same board number.

regards,
     66misos


Title: Re: Airacobra Mk.I, Ivan Gaidaenko
Post by: Pascal on January 28, 2013, 11:54:36 PM
Hi,

have you any idea what colors were used to overpaint RAF roundels on the fuselage/upperwings (green AMT-4?) and underwings (blue AMT-7?) ?

This question is still waiting for an answer... I'd like to know your idea about it.

My friend returned to the MAE in Le Bourget, and has verified the Yak-3's 25 number. It is well silver, as KL said. Thank you Konstantin, your knowledge is so precious for us.

Pascal


Title: Re: Airacobra Mk.I, Ivan Gaidaenko
Post by: 66misos on January 29, 2013, 10:52:00 AM
Hi Pascal,

let me summarize info I collected in the thread about Victory marks on Pokryshkin's P-39:

There is an interesting article "Early Versions of Airacobra Aircraft in Soviet Aviation" by Valeriy Romanenko at http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/english/articles/romanenko/p-39/ (http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/english/articles/romanenko/p-39/). I picked up info about L-L aircraft delivery/acceptance process:
"?The crates containing aircraft components were opened, inventoried, and checked for damage in the presence of the representative of the Import Directorate. Special attention was given to the "newness" of the aircraft (had this aircraft been subjected to previous use and repair)...a significant portion of the Hurricanes and P-40Cs that had arrived earlier had been flown for some time in the RAF and had exhausted a significant percentage of their use life. Representatives of the military commission of the USSR in Great Britain had noted cases when new aircraft arriving from the USA were taken into the inventory of the Royal Air Force to replace other aircraft already in use. These aircraft underwent repair, were disassembled, packed in crates, and sent to the USSR."
So Hurricanes and P-40Cs were relatively old.

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_P-39_Airacobra (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_P-39_Airacobra):
"...Britain transferred about 200 P-39s to the Soviet Union...Another 200 examples intended for the RAF were taken up by the USAAF after the attack on Pearl Harbor as the P-400...The Airacobras already in the UK, along with the remainder of the first batch being built in the US, were sent to the Soviet Air force..."
So P-39s were relatively new.

V. Roman in his book Airacobras over Kuban writes, that there was a big airplane assembling factory in Abadan (e.g. South path) built by Douglas in line with USAF order. Red stars painted in Abadan were in line with rules, e.g. with the thin (1cm) black outline. But blue circles were repainted rather sloppy, often with British or Russian paints, which did not match original US Olive Drab and Neutral Grey?
My understanding is that if there was shortage of OD then British or Russian paints (which were in enough quantities) were used. I know you are interested in Airacobras delivered via Northern path but situation there should/could be similar.

So regarding P-39s unless photo of the particular plane shows something else I would vote for RAF paints which were seem to be on hands. And as modeller I would distinguish this "new, fresh" repainting from "old" surrounding camo by slightly different color and level of matt/gloss.

Btw, what color is used on the tail tip at this photo?
(http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/english/articles/romanenko/p-39/Bochkov.jpg)

Happy modeling,
    66misos


Title: Re: Airacobra Mk.I, Ivan Gaidaenko
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on January 29, 2013, 07:01:03 PM
Hi Misos,
you're making a very interesting work of research on these planes. Would you obtain a page for the site to resume it, when you'll think it will be complete?
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: Airacobra Mk.I, Ivan Gaidaenko
Post by: KL on January 29, 2013, 10:52:56 PM
Hi Pascal/Missos,
IMHO, South route, Abadan in Iran, and painting practices at the assembly facilities there are not relevant for Gaidaenko's P-39... Planes started to arrive through South route in early 1943.  Those were former USAAF P-39s or direct L-L to Soviets, no British Airacobras...  most of these planes were used on central and south parts of the front (Kuban region is on the Black Sea).

Gaidaenko's 19 giap started to receive Airacobras in May 1942 (year before Kuban fightings!!!) and it was active on the Karelian Front (opposing Finland, quite far away from the Black Sea  :)).   Those were definitely British Airacobras Mk I (some used, some conserved by the British) and they arrived through the North Route, i.e. on PQ convoys to Murmansk/Archangelsk.  Some were even lost on route in German submarine attacks...
There was nothing similar to US Abadan facilities in the North.

IMHO, British markings were overpainted by the Soviets, probably with oil paints they had there - not necessarily aviation paints.  I don't think they used AMT paints, especially not the blue AMT-7. AMT-7 appeared sometimes in 1942, maybe even later than May 1942.

P-39 in the Finish museum should give you an idea how this was done and how different Soviet colours could be when compared to British colours.

HTH,
KL


Title: Re: Airacobra Mk.I, Ivan Gaidaenko
Post by: 66misos on January 30, 2013, 11:42:50 AM
Hi KL,
I know that P-39 assembling factory (a part of complex assembling facilities) in Abadan was built from US money to serve/assembly US planes. Not to delivery RAF paint. And nevertheless those RAF paints were there. Looks like British delivered them together with their planes within the same L-L contract. So why not to expect British paints also on the North?

I wrote:
Quote
...assembling factory in Abadan (e.g. South path) built by Douglas ...I know you are interested in Airacobras delivered via Northern path...
Do not worry I know that Karelia is not somewhere around Black See  ;)

V. Roman in his book "'Аэрокобры вступают в бой" writes:
"...Virtually all delivered aircraft (P-39 to RAF - my note) had standard English camouflage of gray and green areas, however, of the "American shade/hue" and British markings and serial numbers - AN570-739, AR264-384, BW100-183, BX135-434..."
In this case the new fresh repainting with standard British RAF paints could make a visible difference from surrounding grey/green of "American shade/hue".
I would like to stress that statement above is not in "must" but in "could be" position. I do not want to exclude some Russian paints but I do not have a clue about their code numbers.
Form modeller point of view using RAF paints of different hue/gloss/Matt seems to be less improvisation then inventing some grayish/greenish color (like "tractor green") ;) And again, unless photo of particular plane shows something different.

Quote
P-39 in the Finish museum should give you an idea how this was done and how different Soviet colours could be when compared to British colours.
(http://i1063.photobucket.com/albums/t518/66misos/P-39%20Airacobra/P-39_Mix03.jpg)
If you mean this plane than there are no British colors on this late P-39Q version. There is OD with standard late USAF marking used after august 1943. Olive Drab looks very rusty/weathered/eroded, almost translucent.

Regards,
     66misos


PS: Do you have, please, any idea about color on the tail tip of "16" on the photo im my previous post? It looks darker than (white,silver?) digits but not sure whether same as red star partially visible on the fuselage.


Title: Re: Airacobra Mk.I, Ivan Gaidaenko
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on January 30, 2013, 12:37:00 PM
Hi Misos, hi all,
Quote
PS: Do you have, please, any idea about color on the tail tip of "16" on the photo im my previous post? It looks darker than (white,silver?) digits but not sure whether same as red star partially visible on the fuselage.

(http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/english/articles/romanenko/p-39/Bochkov.jpg)

Utilizing the picker of my Photoshop on the photo, I see the same shade of grey (64%) both on the star on the fuselage and on the tail cap. So I think it's red.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: Airacobra Mk.I, Ivan Gaidaenko
Post by: 66misos on January 30, 2013, 03:08:00 PM
Hi Massimo,
thank you for color clarification and also for appreciation in your post above :D. We can discuss it later, however, I think it never will be complete  :(

regards,
     66misos


Title: Re: Airacobra Mk.I, Ivan Gaidaenko
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on January 30, 2013, 05:20:34 PM
Hi Misos,
the work can always be updated before publishing. It would be good to have more color profiles before starting.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: Airacobra Mk.I, Ivan Gaidaenko
Post by: KL on January 30, 2013, 06:33:29 PM
Quote
Do not worry I know that Karelia is not somewhere around Black See

Hi Misos,  :)
I am only trying to say that time, location, country of origin etc could make a difference and should be taken in account.

Quote
In this case the new fresh repainting with standard British RAF paints could make a visible difference from surrounding grey/green of "American shade/hue".
I would like to stress that statement above is not in "must" but in "could be" position.

Stress in my post is on "IMHO" - in my opinion.  So other options are possible.  British paints applied by the British, british paints applied by the Soviets, soviet oil aviation paints are also possible...

Quote
PS: Do you have, please, any idea about color on the tail tip of "16" on the photo im my previous post? It looks darker than (white,silver?) digits but not sure whether same as red star partially visible on the fuselage.

Coloured tail tips were regimental quick recognition markins.  They would appear on all planes in a regiment, not on a single plane.  Tipically this type of markings appeared when several units operated in a relatively small area.  For example, during the Winter War or Berlin operation (in both cases Soviet VVS had heavy numerical superiority and were in offensive!!!).
Anyway, red tail tip would be very unusual in 1942.  Did other 19 giap planes have any regimental markings?

HTH,
KL   


Title: Re: Airacobra Mk.I, Ivan Gaidaenko
Post by: KL on February 02, 2013, 01:14:35 AM
Hi Pascal,
Since there are no British Airacobra wrecks, maybe we should rely on wrecks of other British planes delivered in 1941/42 and used by VVS in the North in 1942.  Following Tomahawk and Hurricane fit in this category:

(http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/english/articles/sheppard/p40recovery/p-40e_01.jpg)
(http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/english/articles/sheppard/p40recovery/p-40e_03.jpg)
(http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/english/articles/sheppard/p40recovery/p-40e_09.jpg)
from http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/english/articles/sheppard/p40recovery/index.htm

(http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/english/articles/sheppard/hurricane_Z5252/hurricane_11.jpg)
(http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/english/articles/sheppard/hurricane_Z5252/hurricane_12.jpg)
(http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/english/articles/sheppard/hurricane_Z5252/hurricane_06.jpg)
from http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/english/articles/sheppard/hurricane_Z5252/index.htm

If only these two planes are considered, it looks that colours vere a fairly good mach to original American/British colours, markings were probably sprayed with templates, number was carefuly drawn...
HTH,
KL


Title: Re: Airacobra Mk.I, Ivan Gaidaenko
Post by: Pascal on February 02, 2013, 10:51:55 PM
Hi Konstantin,

Thank you for your message, I think you're right and I'll consider these wrecks. I know that Airacobras were repainted in Britain before sending to Russia. There, Soviet mechanics applied red stars and markings. What about Tomahawks and Hurricanes? The same process, or red stars were painted before leaving Britain?

Here is my model, in its current state:

(http://img4.hostingpics.net/pics/459332reprise.jpg) (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=459332reprise.jpg)

I still wonder how English roundels were covered ... ;)

Pascal


Title: Re: Airacobra Mk.I, Ivan Gaidaenko
Post by: Pascal on February 16, 2013, 10:34:21 PM
Hi,

Here is my Airacobra:

(http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/513525P1090936.jpg) (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=513525P1090936.jpg)

My inspiration came from this detail:

(http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/439961detailetoile.jpg) (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=439961detailetoile.jpg)

I consider that new markings were paint by British before delivery... So there will be stars on uppersurfaces.

What is your feeling?

Regards,

Pascal


Title: Re: Airacobra Mk.I, Ivan Gaidaenko
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on February 16, 2013, 10:57:57 PM
Hi Pascal,
looks good.
About lighter dishes: I think that the British grey (Ocean grey, if I remember well) was darker when new and then faded; if this color was used, it could be that it appeared lighter in photos because of its more glossy finish and reflects the sky. However it could also be another color but ocean grey.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: Airacobra Mk.I, Ivan Gaidaenko
Post by: KL on February 17, 2013, 12:48:35 AM
Quote
I consider that new markings were paint by British before delivery... So there will be stars on uppersurfaces.

What is your feeling?

I agree that British overpainted RAF roundels before delivery.  :)

Who painted Red Stars seems to be a separate question.
IMHO, it really depended on what part of the front those ex-RAF planes ended-up:  There are examples of Tomahawks and Huricanes that have markings complient with VVS regulations (wing undersides, fuselage and tail).  It looks that those were confined to Central Front.
Many Tomahawks and Huricanes on North Front had non-complient markings (stars missing from tailfins or stars on wing upper surfaces).   Some Hurricanes had stars on upper wing surfaces, other din't...

It would be good to find a single photo of ex-British Airacobra that shows wing upper surfaces.  If you can't find any it becomes a personal choice....  :-X

Regards,
KL


Title: Re: Airacobra Mk.I, Ivan Gaidaenko
Post by: Pascal on February 17, 2013, 03:08:11 PM
It would be good to find a single photo of ex-British Airacobra that shows wing upper surfaces.  If you can't find any it becomes a personal choice....

You're right, Konstantin! This is the only photo I know, and I can't see anything: neither a star or even an overpainted area...

(http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/467244aile.jpg) (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=467244aile.jpg)

Regards,

Pascal


Title: Re: Airacobra Mk.I, Ivan Gaidaenko
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on February 17, 2013, 04:45:42 PM
I can't see stars or repaintings on the fuselage too.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: Airacobra Mk.I, Ivan Gaidaenko
Post by: 66misos on February 18, 2013, 05:02:36 PM
Hi Pascal,
note the red star on this picture:
(http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/439961detailetoile.jpg)
is not concentric with overpainted RAF roundel - left star tip is quite inside while right tip is quite outside the roundel. Top star tip seems to be OK. Moreover, my feeling is that overpained roundel is not precise circle - its left side goes directly down while it should slightly turns right. Neither roundel nor star goes over the vertical panel line, to the left on this picture.

No explanation why "new overpainting" is lighter then old, original camouflage, if both performed by British and with the same colors. I would only guess that the new, fresh overpainting is matt and still clean while original camouflage of the same colors is already dirty and greasy. But this I would expect with light colors, not with Dark Green ???

Note the dark vertical line in the middle of top rear fuselage - panel line:
(http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/467244aile.jpg)
and just behind that panel lines to the left is a couple of lighter short lines - exactly where I would expect overpainted RAF roundel and red star with white/silver outline. No explanation why full star is not visible when even exhaust pipes are visible. Soot from the smoke of hit plane? Retouch?

RAF roundel (usually) did not exceed over that vertical panel line, to the right on this photo:
(http://www.flightglobal.com/airspace/media/historical1939-1945/images/15027/fa-18208s-jpg.jpg)

Anyhow, I am really curious for your final result. I keep fingers.

Regards,
     66misos


Title: Re: Airacobra Mk.I, Ivan Gaidaenko
Post by: 66misos on March 21, 2013, 05:37:42 PM
Hi Pascal,

this I found today at http://scalemodels.ru/modules/forum/viewtopic_t_12_start_380.html (http://scalemodels.ru/modules/forum/viewtopic_t_12_start_380.html)

(http://airaces.narod.ru/all2/gaidayn2.jpg)

regards,
    66misos


Title: Re: Airacobra Mk.I, Ivan Gaidaenko
Post by: Pascal on March 21, 2013, 09:35:53 PM
Hi Misos,

Thanks for this photograph...

My Airacobra is almost finished. I'll post some pics soon.

Pascal


Title: Re: Airacobra Mk.I, Ivan Gaidaenko
Post by: Pascal on March 24, 2013, 11:22:25 PM
Hi,

Here is my model now finished:

(http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/723630finifini4.jpg) (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=723630finifini4.jpg)

(http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/677707finifini.jpg) (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=677707finifini.jpg)

(http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/690353finifini2.jpg) (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=690353finifini2.jpg)

(http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/247445finifini3.jpg) (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=247445finifini3.jpg)

Pascal


Title: Re: Airacobra Mk.I, Ivan Gaidaenko
Post by: jonbius on March 25, 2013, 12:01:41 AM
Very nice work! You did a great job on that.


Title: Re: Airacobra Mk.I, Ivan Gaidaenko
Post by: Ohotnyik on March 25, 2013, 07:36:56 AM
Hallo Pascal,
Congratualtions.I have an empty place in my shelf to place it.
It is really beutiful.
Istvan


Title: Re: Airacobra Mk.I, Ivan Gaidaenko
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on March 25, 2013, 03:55:04 PM
Very good-looking. I like it very much.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: Airacobra Mk.I, Ivan Gaidaenko
Post by: KL on March 25, 2013, 04:20:20 PM
Congratulations, great model!
It was also an interesting research.
What is the colour of the undersides?
Cheers,
KL


Title: Re: Airacobra Mk.I, Ivan Gaidaenko
Post by: learstang on March 25, 2013, 04:50:48 PM
Beautiful early Kobra, Pascal!  Brilliant work!

Regards,

Jason


Title: Re: Airacobra Mk.I, Ivan Gaidaenko
Post by: Troy Smith on March 25, 2013, 06:05:58 PM
Great job Paxcal

came out really well.

one question/point, why no upperwing stars? It seems to have been standard British practice to apply upperwing stars, so the VVS would either keep them or paint them out.

I really like the detail of of the stecllling on the sky background, neat touch.

cheers
T


Title: Re: Airacobra Mk.I, Ivan Gaidaenko
Post by: 66misos on March 25, 2013, 06:09:02 PM
Hi Pascal,

very nice kit. I like it really very much.
What color did you use for number "33" and red star outline?
Happy modeling.

     66misos


PS: What happend to antena wire?


Title: Re: Airacobra Mk.I, Ivan Gaidaenko
Post by: Pascal on March 25, 2013, 09:45:05 PM
Thanks to you!

KL, the underside is British Medium Sea Grey. Do you think that it could be Sky? I wondered, seeing the stencils on access doors...

Troy, I think that british roundels were repainted by British people, but soviet markings were applied by Soviets, and so it was no star on upperwing. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's what I guess.

Misos, I used matt aluminium for these markings, applied with a brush on the "33", to give a relief appearance. The antenna wire must still be tight, and painted...

Pascal


Title: Re: Airacobra Mk.I, Ivan Gaidaenko
Post by: KL on March 26, 2013, 06:15:51 PM
KL, the underside is British Medium Sea Grey. Do you think that it could be Sky? I wondered, seeing the stencils on access doors...

Originally the undersides were Sky.  Have they been overpainted at the same time when top was overpainted in gray + green?  I don't know - good question for RAF camouflage experts!

Misos, I used matt aluminium for these markings, applied with a brush on the "33", to give a relief appearance.

the original Soviet paint was glossy and highly reflective - almost like glossy side of Aluminium foil.

HTH,
KL


Title: Re: Airacobra Mk.I, Ivan Gaidaenko
Post by: 4bogreen on March 26, 2013, 06:37:18 PM
Looking good Pascal!  :)
Very good presatation of an early Airacobra (P-400)!
Good use of satin and matt coloring  :D

I think of purchacing the following books of the cobra; ''Cobra! Bell aircraftcorparation 1934-1946'' and ''Airacobra over kuban P-39 k,l,m''

Regards,

Remco