Sovietwarplanes

Hey guys,

Currently i am working on my 1/48 MiG-3 from trumpeter. The build process is almost complete and were now moving to the painting process  ;D. I have the idea to paint the tubular frame and seat a bit lighter blue (yellow primer) than the cockpit walls. Unfortunately i don't have the Akan paint, so it will be done with Vallejo paints (mixing, mixing ;D). If i have figure out how to post my photo's here then i will upload some here.

Regards,

Remco

Maybe its handy to tell who black 12 is... Black 12 is the second plane above the more famous red 2 (with the so called red wings and black propeller) by the Moscow airfield in the winter of 1941. I will do a winter camouflage.

Hi Remco,
the only color photo of the seat of MiG-3 shows a olive green back armour, with an apparently unpainted lower seat. The photos of the dismantled MiGs shows usually dark tubulars, probably green in the cockpit zone and black in the engine zone. The inner face of panels is reported light blue in the cockpit area, and dark, probably green, in the engine area. The part behind the seat, visible through the glazing, was probably green.  I can't guarantee that it is always so, a veteran reports also of MiGs with interiors in black, in uniform light blue or an unidentified skin color, besides medium grey is possible as the usual color of Soviet planes.
Sorry to have not more conclusive informations.
Regards
Massimo

In most cases the colour depended on the type of metal:

-  yellow primer was usede only for duralluminium
-  duralluminium interior (for example fuselage structure) was sometimes primed, sometimes it wasn't.  It was painted with various oil paints: gray, gray-green, brown-gray, light green
-  steel was painted in similar colours: gray, gray-green, brown-gray, light green
-  cast iron was commonly painted in dark green or olive green
-  primer for iron (if used) was red

Its a difficult situation here... I have made the following;
- The seat will be green
- Tubulars will be grey
- cockpit sidepannels will be blue
- The part behind the seat will be the same as the cockpit sidepannels
- The radio's on the space behind the seat will be green and black

any suggestions??

Regards,

Remco

Hi 4bogreen,

you can find some inspiration about MiG-3 colors here http://www.mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/colorized/colorized.html (http://www.mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/colorized/colorized.html)

(http://www.mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/colorized/510-08r.jpg)

Regards,
     66misos

Finally, as promised the photo's off the cockpit

(http://s20.postimage.org/tqpp7y8jd/fotos_21_02_2013_086.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/tqpp7y8jd/)

(http://s20.postimage.org/qy131nxkp/fotos_21_02_2013_087.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/qy131nxkp/)

I hope you like it  :)

Regards,

Remco

Very nice start, Remco!

Regards,

Jason

Hi Remco,
your cockpit is basically light blue and that is not likely  :-[.  The official cockpit colour was "steel gray" and you should use it.

My suggestions:
-  fuselage frame - medium or darker gray-green
-  cockpit sides - steel gray
-  back armour - dark/olive green
-  radio - light gray-green

(http://www.reaa.ru/yabbfiles/Attachments/Kabina_MiG-3.JPG)
(http://images.mipt-telecom.net/images/4/big/2012/08/06/25934874f37157271c53423d9245de70.jpg)
(http://portal.istra.ru/lee/albums/251207muzeitechniki/IMG_0166.JPG)

HTH,
KL

Thanks for the feedback guys, see i am still learning  ;)

I like the pics you posted!
The following i ''learned''
-tubular frames- a bit off very dark grey-green
-cockpit sides steel gray (i am still having a bit off second thoughts about the blue  :-\)
-seat-green
-radio's gray-green and black
-area behind the seat-green
Any other suggestions?

Regards,

Remco
 

Hi,
I agree with green for the radio deck.
(http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/mig3/struc2m.jpg)
(http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/mig3/rad200r.jpg) This one is from I-200 n.3.
Unfortunately I haven't conclusive photos, but this one shows that the rear fuselage of the plane was painted green before installing the metallic tail surfaces. It is likely that they did this before mounting the rear glazing too.
(http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/mig3/MiG-3_1s.jpg)
Besides a light blue surface would be very visible from above and would create reflexes inside the canopy.
(http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/mig3/structv.jpg) This seems to suggest a dark color, green or grey, for the lower part of the seat too.
The landing gear was painted with the outer color, light blue, apart for the wheels whose disk was green. it's likely that this was made on some other surfaces too; so for those accessible from above, green is likely.
About the sides: at least the one in Finland had light blue ones, but it's possible that it was not the same for all ones.
Then, maybe it is obvious, but I would add: black on instrument panel, switches box and throttle box, and on the strut supporting the gunsight, all parts that could create reflexes inside the widshield.
Regards
Massimo

Massimo,
Do you have any "photographic evidence" for light blue cockpit?  Vesivehmaa MiG-3 is a prewar plane, painted according to the standards - IMHO, there was no reason for improvisations and substitutes.

Radio:

(http://cruzworlds.ru/fans/img/user_pics/198003304884444.jpg)
(http://cruzworlds.ru/fans/img/user_pics/thumbs/234866128466635.jpg)

Parashute "cup" should be A-14 "steel gray".  Made of dur-alluminium and within the cockpit...  preserved Yak-3 in Paris has steel gray lower seat.

Wheels are made of cast iron, so dark green/olive green is OK.

HTH,
KL

At present time, no, only the report of Lumppio on the pieces in the Finnish museum and an interview of a technician that wrote that blue was a possible option aside black and another unidentified skin color.
The panels of the engine and weapon bays are dark on the inside, it could be unfaded green, but I guess that a light color would be good on a part of the cockpit that couldn't be seen from above nor create reflections inside the canopy.
From what we have seen, the color of the cockpit was not uniform (green, black) so I guess that grey is possible, but I would go on the only documented option, also because it is not clear why, if grey was the standard inside color, it seems not to have been used on many other parts.
On the photos of the wreck, I don't understand if the grey pavement is really grey, or aluminium that lost all its paint.
Regards
Massimo

Remco

The cockpit is good. But is it possible to make the pictures bigger?

Michel

Hi Remco<
your floor looks green
(http://s20.postimage.org/viio2urwd/fotos_21_02_2013_086.jpg)

Cockpit floor should be A-14 steel gray - this can be clearly seen in the following photo:
(http://images.mipt-telecom.net/images/4/big/2012/08/06/25934874f37157271c53423d9245de70.jpg)

Parts of the floor that look gray-green are actually places were yellow primer is seen through the gray paint.
HTH,
KL

Hey guys! here are some bigger pictures from my work!
I really like all off you're enthusiasm to help me make some right decisions for the colors. I really like the photo's you posted for me.

(http://s20.postimage.org/x5hiyxznd/foto_s_27_2_2013_019.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/x5hiyxznd/) 
I have done some scratch build on the exhaust covers. Also modified the gun collars i.a. to the Aber  gun barrel set. This set don't have the heat resistance collars :-\

(http://s20.postimage.org/930p42j09/foto_s_27_2_2013_020.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/930p42j09/)
Here is the modified rudder tail. I used the Brengun set for the Allanger kit for the control surface to modify the Trumpeter control surface

(http://s20.postimage.org/te7ycmlyx/foto_s_27_2_2013_024.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/te7ycmlyx/)

(http://s20.postimage.org/4ieip4zax/foto_s_27_2_2013_022.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/4ieip4zax/)
The R-82 rockets and rails...

(http://s20.postimage.org/95kkqwmnt/foto_s_27_2_2013_023.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/95kkqwmnt/)
...and the landing gear

Regards,

Remco

@ JL,

The bottom off the cockpit is not green. This is a sanded part of the photo etch set from Eduard  ;)

Hi,
is this information sure, or an interpretation of the photo? It should be possible to contact who saw the original wreck.
Excellent work, this should improve the kit a lot.
Regards
Massimo

It's "photo interpretation", but I am sure that I see A-14 steel gray.
Regards,
KL

Hey guys!  :)

Progress is slow, but here are some pictures off the cockpit. I have done some serous remodeling off the tubes frame and the floor. The tubes frame was 3mm to short, and have to cut the rear struts out and replaced them with new rods. Also the overall length is longer by adding a 3mm longer piece by gluing it on the existing rod. By looking at the restored Finnish mig-3 in progress, i saw that the floor was placed above and on the tubular frame.

(http://s20.postimage.org/cal0g6shl/fotos_modelbouw_006.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/cal0g6shl/)

(http://s20.postimage.org/de54s5d4p/fotos_modelbouw_007.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/de54s5d4p/)

(http://s20.postimage.org/hbsehjzy1/fotos_modelbouw_008.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/hbsehjzy1/)

I hope you like it!

Regards,

Remco

Progress is slow but very good. :D

Hi Remco,
since your fuselage frame still isn't painted, I have a new suggestion for it's colour:  Mig-3 was made by Zavod 1 in Moscow and it replaced I-153 on production lines in 1940.  Following are photos of I-153 frame, Mig-3 frame was painted with same paint:

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-R1zYv8GB9xE/Ti_NbTtM7JI/AAAAAAAAAqI/nhpkN-7BmGQ/s1600/I-153_engine2.jpg)
(http://img851.imageshack.us/img851/7421/bottle.jpg)

The colour is medium green-gray, not dark green-gray.  Frame of the wreck in Moscow Zadorozhnii Museum is the same colour.
HTH,
KL

@B_realistic,
I have to look at it my whole life, so i take it slow and do annything possible to make it as accurate as posssible.
Misschien zie ik je wel bij de eerstvolgende KMK meeting Michel ;)

@KL
I like your paint option for the frame. It looks like light olive green...The dust on it makes it a bit grey...
To bad that there is no damaged or scratcht parts on the frame, to see if there is some red primer underneath its paint. That wood be great from a artistic way of view to make the cockpit a bit damaged by going in and climbing out.

Regards,

Remco

Hi,
grey-green (ALG-5?) looks credible, this medium grey-green appears suspiciously common, looks the same of Yak-9U and other in museums; it is the same unconvincingly identified as Ae-9 by Akan.  
 However I see a dark color on this photo.
(http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/mig3/structv.jpg)
I think it's green as the outside, or not too different.
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-R1zYv8GB9xE/Ti_NbTtM7JI/AAAAAAAAAqI/nhpkN-7BmGQ/s1600/I-153_engine2.jpg)
Note that the grey-green appears as dark as the outside green in this photo, but I have seen the plane with my own eyes and the outer color was dark. Do we know the exact shade from the restorers?
The color of the struts of an I-15bis, possibly the same of the I-153, appears light on bw photos from Squadron Signal and other monographs. Could it be a joke of the flash, again?
Good work on the cockpit, really!
Regards
Massimo

Okay, at the moment i have primed the cockpit and is drying now.
Now i come at the difficult moment off deciding what color i have to use... ???
- cockpit walls- A-14 steel
- frame- ALG-5
- seat- olive green
- floor on the frame- olive green
I only don't know the color for the radio shelf and rear behind the seat...  ???

Hi,
I'm fairly sure that it is green as the outside.
I am doubtful that they employed A-14 here. In my guess, if one uses this color, he has to use it on the whole cockpit, but it seems not so.
Regards
Massimo

There were always so called subcontractors who delivered components all painted and well to the factory. Even the p-39 had sometimes two different colors in its wheelbays. Simply because boeing used different primer than bell...

Its difficult to a "right" decision here, simply that we don't have REAL color chips and solid reliable info on this... :-[
Its all about interpretation Massimo...

Color CHIPS EXIST (at least those from 1948), planes in museums are REAL, paint on them is ORIGINAL, REAL Soviet era paint.  Finally, there is A LOT OF RELIABLE INFO!!!

It's not all about interpretation - we also use period information about paints, production technology, etc.  We also rely on analogies, logic...

Green-gray preserved on Muse de l'Air I-153 frame is not ALG-5.  ALG-5 did not exist in 1939 when this plane was made.

As I mentioned before, plane's internal structure was painted with anticorrosive oil paints of various colours.  Internal colours on preserved REAL planes and wrecks in museums vary between light green-gray, grass green, brown and various shades of gray.  Most likely there wasn't a standard colour for plane's metal structure.

At the same time, cockpit colour was standardized - it was supposed to be steel gray!  Cockpit floor and seat of the Mig-3 wreck preserved at the Zadorozhni Museum are steel gray.  Do you need more evidence?  Back armor of this wreck and many other back armors unearthed in last 10-15 years are consistently darker yellowish green .  Why interpretation if there is a wreck with preserved original colours???

Only the colour of cockpit sides remains uncertain.  Mainly because Massimo refers to people who moved Mig-3 parts at Vesivehmaa museum 20-30 years ago...

HTH,
KL

@ KL,
So if i will do it correctly the whole cockpit will be steel gray including the frame and seat completly?
I have read that the colors off the soviets were changed by 1947 and cataloged in 1948...
The color 4bo green was also changed in 1947, so colorphoto's from the 1950 are not a benchmark for acurate colors from the 1940's. (Don't be mad KL, i have your color knowlege in high degree)

Regards,

Remco

No, it will not be gray only - see my previous post.


Where did you read about the change?  I am specially interested in 4BO change - how did it look before and after?

Hi KL!

There are MiG-3 parts in two locations in Finland: Wing parts and horizontal stabilizer at Vesivehmaa P?ij?t-H?meen Ilmailumuseo and side panel, rear fuselage and likely rudder at Tikkakoski Central Finland Aviation museum storage. I have seen years ago (less than 20...  ;) ) the side panel mentioned and it had light blue interior colour. I have no reason to suspect the FS number given by Mr. Lumppio.

Pictures? I try to find something...

Cheers,

AaCee

Hi AC26,
Three locations: fragment of wing leading edge is in Tusula, in the Anti Aircraft Artillery Museum...
Rudder was also stored in Vesivehmaa in 1980es .
Cheers,
KL

Hi KL,

The change of 4bo green i read was in the book of Mikhail Baryatinskiy, Russian armor vol. 4 T-34 1939-1943.
Also a very good book about camouflage is the Armada veritkal #5, Camouflage of the tanks of the red army.
I bought it for 15 euro (20$). I was very lucky, because this book was little published.

I get a bit confused here about the colors now...(currently i also work on a T-34 wreck that has a widespread of colors  :))...and start mixing things up here...
- tubes- ? Green? primer red? blue? grey?  ???
- seat- A-14 steel gray
- Floor on frame- A-14 steel gray
- cockpit walls- ? Blue? Grey?  ???
- area behind seat- eh, green?  ???

Thanks for the help and input  :)

Hi,
Is it the same of your photos? Eventually, where can one find photos, or the report of someone that saw the original thing?

If I remember well the post of Kari Lumppio, he refers to the use of outside green as a base color, including many internal surfaces; even the light blue of undersurfaces was painted over it. Available photos are compatible with this assertion.

Regards
Massimo

Hello KL,

I stand corrected. I don't remember this. Last time I visited there was several years ago after Airacobra arrived Hyryl?. Maybe time for a new visit?

Yes, but it was moved maybe 20 years ago together an I-153 and an R-5 rudders to Tikkakoski for a special exhibition when their U-2 conservation was ready and the plane put on temporary display.

Originally my key message was to confirm light blue for the MiG-3 side panel inner colour.

Cheers,

AaCee

Hi, three photos from Alex Ruchkowsky.

Here we see the lower part of the seat and the floor without any paint, it is unclear if it lost it or was never painted. The tubes strut is dark grey.
(http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/mig3/ccockpitwreck.jpg)


This thing is said to be a seat. The color would fit for a glycol tank, but the details really suggest the lower part of a seat.
(http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/mig3/greenseat1.jpg)

(http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/mig3/greenseat2.jpg)

Regards
Massimo

Three photos are from the internet, I have them saved too!  Has Ruchkovskii seen the wreck?


I really don't understand this:  you can't see gray A-14, or Ruchkowsky can't see gray A-14, or both of you pretend not to see gray A-14??
"without any paint... Never painted"??  What is the gray layer covering  the seat? Can you see the scratches through this misterious gray substance?

Two more photos:
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm13/klesnikov/Posted%20in%20forums/Nc2_Gr_0ffb39c52b6434e4a4980d018d513bcd_resize_zps837c70bb.jpg)
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm13/klesnikov/Posted%20in%20forums/90602473_zps937f393d.jpg)

I am 100% sure that the seat is gray A-14.  Same with the floor.  Left side of the cockpit was also attached when wreck was recovered and it was also gray,  see photos above - gray next to green back armor.

I can not see any light blue in the cockpit of this wreck.  Mig-3 preserved in Finish museums could be different.  I would appreciate photographic evidence.

Regards,
KL

Hi,
maybe the photo can be found on Internet, but the image that he sent is more than 3000 pixel wide. Here is a detail, where you can see a part of the seat and of the floor. Metallic reflexes are clearly visible, this is not grey paint.


(http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/mig3/cockpitwreck2.jpg)

Regards
Massimo

Hi,
This is becoming ridiculous.  Are you referring to snow?  White reflective substance on seat bottom and around the control column is snow!
The seat is gray even on your blown-up picture.
Regards,
KL

Hi,
some snow is on the upper part. On the lower part, metallic reflexes are clearly visible, where the piece is fully clean. Perhaps grey, or other paints, were there 70 years ago, but now the piece is clean.
I can distinguish snow, don't worry.
Regards
Massimo

Hey guys,

I am busy painting the cockpit now (some familly issues and a sick kid are not helping :-[) and have a question about the radio equipment behind the seat. What color do this set (RSI-3 radio set) have? I am also making the oxigen bottles at the back (maybe we see a glimps off them  ;D)

Check page 1 of this thread!!!   Reply #11   ;)
Cheers,
KL

Sorry KL, the link doesn't work  ??? (Thanks for the help  :D)

Found it KL  ;D (stupid me  ::)) Was the round thing on top of the radio black or the same color as the other radio parts?
(painting the oxigen bottles now). I have also made some changes about the armored plate. The rear is vissible now, and i had to fill the gap...
Has annybody an idea what color of the bay should be where the radiators are? Undersurface blue or A-14 grey...? ???

Hi,
I suppose blue as for the landing gear. The flaps on the intake appear in the same way.
Regards
Massimo

Thanks Massimo! I thought also undersurface blue, but i wasn't shore about it. I have discoverd that there was no "floor" under the tubular frame and i removed this kit item. Now i have to repaint the inside again, and the seat  :D. The more i look at this plane, the more i discover...i like this plane now even more... ;D

Hello,

A couple of pictures of the rear fuselage at Tikkakoski storage:
plus.google.com?77000387940344883/albums/5633393064105837249/5855875261535454258?banner=pwa
plus.google.com?77000387940344883/albums/5633393064105837249/5855875212399880418?banner=pwa

Unfortunately I'm still missing the side panel...

Cheers,

AaCee

Hi AaCee,

Are these links to images? They don't function.

Regards
Massimo

Hello Massimo,

Should be. Try these;
https://plus.google.com/photos/104977000387940344883/albums/5633393064105837249/5855875261535454258?banner=pwa
https://plus.google.com/photos/104977000387940344883/albums/5633393064105837249/5855875212399880418?banner=pwa

My apologies for the inconvenience.

Cheers,

AaCee

PS. Please consider to consolidate this and previous msg for clarity if you think it appropriate.

No problem. Thank you for the splendid photos, it seems that the light blue (or blue-grey?) color is on many parts.
The wood color inside was a surprise for me, I thought that they would have painted it in some way.
Regards
Massimo

WOW  :o

Thanks AaCee!! Just what i needed! The wood inside is definitely a surprise! I am gonna airbrush the rear in woodcolor  :D
As we can see, the rear section (rim part, i don't know the English word for it  :-[) that connect to the tubular frame is also the outside color. My fuselage is white. I think it was done in the factory, and not oversprayed in the field...
My conclusion/question is the following;
Should i paint the rim in the fuselage color white (most likely for me), or green as on the photo?  ???

Thanks (again) for the support guys  :D

Hi Massimo,

I think the original color is grey green. When it faded, the green faded away, and the grey bleached thouwards very light grey, having a blue...eh...glow... That is why we think that the inside of MiG's are blue inside...
I think that could be possible? What do you think?

Regards,

Remco

What are people's thoughts about the colors used by Aviarestoration of Novosibirsk in their restored MiG-3 cockpit? They used what I take to be ALG-5 for the floor and the seat. I achieved, and used, something close to what is shown in the walkaround photos by mixing yellow zinc chromate with black. Konstantin seems adamant that the cockpit color (or most of it) should be A-14. Is the research/execution of Aviarestoration therefore to be discounted? I will add that my model of an early MiG-3 is virtually finished, and I don't intend to try to redo the cockpit!

Pip

Like most restorers, Aviarestoration didn't pay to much attention to colours.  They have limited colour authenticity to the external finish.  Wreck preserved in Finland is more relevant.
As explained before, back armour and wheels should be green because both were made of cast iron.  Lower part of the seat and cockpit floor are duralluminium, most likely A-14 steel gray.

HTH,
KL

Hi Remco,
I don't know, but the color couldn't have changed so much. External colors are  apparently well preserved although their exposition to sun was surely longer than the inside parts when the plane was serviceable.
Kari has suggested that this could be A.28m that was also used for inside, but I think that this paint was utilized on planes only after the mid of 1941 (most likely later) and this plane was built in very early 1941, so probably it isn't so. My suggestion is to copy the color as it is.

in the case of the back, I would say pressed steel sheet.

Regards
Massimo


 

Is that green colour a primer for cast iron?  If so, which green is it, as it appears different than A-24m (which I know wasn't a primer but a top coat, a camouflage colour)?  I notice that modern Russian aircraft still seem to use that green for the wheels.

Regards,

Jason

Photo of crashed/inverted MiG-3, showing green wheels (which I'd have thought were more likely to be aluminum than cast iron, but whatever):

(http://s11.postimg.org/a38i9vfu7/Mi_G_3_128.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/a38i9vfu7/)

John

Yes, you are right John - wheels were made of the cast "Silumin" which is alluminum-silica alloy.  Green (grass green) was standard colour for aluminium and magnesium parts.
HTH,
KL

However, the question still remains - what is (was) the designation for this paint?

Regards,

Jason

This may be of interest:
http://web.archive.org/web/20100815010800/http://vvs.hobbyvista.com/Research/Wheels/part_1.php

In particular:
"the claim has always been that the MiG-3 wheels were painted with the trademark Soviet "green" colour (type and nomenclature unknown) which one may see even today on wheels, intake cones and such items [one lacquer described in the 1974 VVS camouflage regulations refers to this paint as 'KO-814 aerolak', but adds in the diagram, "or others..."]. The two surviving and un-rebuilt units we have for examination do seem to show a green paint on this in roughly this category."

So it could be almost anything, based on the above. My guesses would be 4BO (although 4BO seems dark), since this oil-based paint was not specific to the aviation industry but, as an oil-based enamel would have good durability on metal (they used a lot on tanks, so I hear), or some mixture of ALG-5 (which would account for variations in colour).

John

According to E. Pilawskii "anything" was norm in the Soviet Union.  Pilawskii writes that cockpits could have been painted in any colour or left unpainted, according to him almost any paint and combination of colours could have been used to camouflage planes.  All this, according to him, because there were no standards in Russia, orders and instructions were ignored and workers could do whatever they wanted.
You don't have to be a historian to know that it wasn't like that...

Long before Pilawskii's "wheel treatise" appeared, modelers have noticed that wheels on all Cold War Soviet planes were the same green colour.  In Aviakollektsiya Tu-16 book, V. Rigmant mentions that paint on Tu-16 wheels was dark green A-15f.  Radar and antenna cowers were painted with radar wawe transparent HV-16 green.

Good stuff - so the answer to Jason's question is apparently dark green A-15f! Thank you, Konstantin!

(FWIW, Xtracolours has a colour called X628 Wheel Hub Green in their line of enamels - it's close to FS34090, to my eye)

John

Yes, thank you gentlemen; that's what I wanted to know!  I have been using Testors Model Master Medium Green for wheel hubs, but it looks like a brighter green might be closer to the actual colour.  I may take a look at that Xtracolour paint, John.

Regards,

Jason

Hi all,
for what I know, A-15 is a postwar paint. If I remember well, this was written in a mail of Orlov to a Spanish researcher that asked him about AEh-15, an hypotized name for the 'factory green' suggested by EP.
Regards
Massimo

Orlov only said that fictional "factory green" might have been confused with the postwar A-15f.  It's not clear when A-15 appeared...
A-14 gray appeared in late 1930es and remained a cockpit colour in postwar years, till early 1960es.  After the war it was also referred to as A-14f (original A-14 was an oil paint, A-14f was an alkyd paint).

regards,
KL  

Hey guys,

Progress is slow, but here is a small update (colors are not definitive). Keeping busy  ;D

(http://s20.postimg.org/8vwhrw0xl/foto_24_03_2013_009.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/8vwhrw0xl/)

(http://s20.postimg.org/srsh7fhyx/foto_24_03_2013_010.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/srsh7fhyx/)

(http://s20.postimg.org/ci2b4j7ax/foto_24_03_2013_011.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/ci2b4j7ax/)

(http://s20.postimg.org/nixg9jzjt/foto_24_03_2013_012.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/nixg9jzjt/)

Euh I think that there is a problem in displaying the pictures. ::)

To correct myself and to conclude:

1.  Back armor was made of pressed steel and painted in olive green (probably 3B Protective, Early T-34 tanks were primed with dark green 3B and then painted with yellowish olive green 4BO)

2.  Wheels were made of the cast aluminum alloy and painted in dark green.  This dark green could have been A-15.

3.  Magnesium parts were painted in blue A-9 (this from Orlov and Vahlamov).  Some planes may had magnesium wheels.

Hth,
KL

PS.  back armor and head cushions were covered with dark brown artificial leather called "brezant"

Thanks KL,

I use the wreck photo's a bit as a guide. I was in doubt about the head cushion. I knew it was brezant, but in the wreck photo it looks like fabric. Russian uniform khaki. Now i just make it leather brown... :D
The back armor is a lighter green then olive green on the photo. Has the color of the plate been faded? the closest color i could find is camouflage light green. And then i mixed it up to the photo color with a drop of white...A total of two drops camouflage light green and one drop of white. The normal olive green color is to dark, and the light olive color is a bit to grey...
Maybe i am wrong, or seeing it different  ???

Regards,

Remco

Dark brown paint peeled off the head rest on the wreck (after 70 years in mud).  IMHO, both darker or yellowish olive greens (3B or even 4BO) could be appropriate for back armor.  Gray on wreck photos is mud, degraded paint etc.
KL

Hi,

is green color on AN-12 wheel discs at http://sovietwarplanes.com/board/index.php?topic=1541.0 (http://sovietwarplanes.com/board/index.php?topic=1541.0) :

(http://i1276.photobucket.com/albums/y474/asekular1/w_an26_krivoirog_43_zpsc6c2829b.jpg)   (http://i1276.photobucket.com/albums/y474/asekular1/64-ka_zpsa6d6ab00.jpg)

appropriate also for MiG-3?

Regards,
     66misos

IMHO, yes.  Look for older walkaround photos from 1980es or 1990es or museum planes that were not repainted recently.
Cheers,
KL

Hi,
I know that old color photos are nreliable, but look at this
(http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/mig3/undcolor.jpg)

(http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/mig3/color2mm.jpg)

Regards
Massimo

Hey guys!

It has been a while, but here are some photo's from the cockpit. These  colors are the base colors. I still have to weather the cockpit by fading and chipping. I recently received my postorder of AKAN colors. I ordered the colors on hobbycolours.net. and everything went smooth. corresponding is by e-mail and you must have a pay-pal account.
My version of A-14 steel grey is to light. I have to darken it a bit down... ::)

(http://s20.postimg.org/k06w9ra61/foto_s_17_04_2013_154.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/k06w9ra61/)
Cockpit has all PE installed.

(http://s20.postimg.org/f2tbon86x/foto_s_17_04_2013_155.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/f2tbon86x/)
The blue oxygenbottle  is glued to the tubular frame

(http://s20.postimg.org/y96irtoop/foto_s_17_04_2013_156.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/y96irtoop/)
The armorplate is painted 4bo green(Vallejo/AK colors) and the seat A-14 steel grey

(http://s20.postimg.org/nnmnftid5/foto_s_17_04_2013_157.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/nnmnftid5/)
The yellow and green wires next to the radio shelf are made for tubings in the cockpit next to the tubular frame

(http://s20.postimg.org/6bmaudovt/foto_s_17_04_2013_159.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/6bmaudovt/)
I decided to make the wooden parts unpainted like one of the photo's made of a wreck.

I hope you like it  :D

Regards,

Remco

Looks good, Remco!  I don't know if you've decided on a paint scheme yet, but how about the "zebra-striped" MiG-3?

Regards,

Jason

Great to see some pictures. :D
There are alot of shemes available for the Mig-3.
Maybe a winter sheme? :D

Thanks Jason  :)

I always like to make "rarities" so the zebra striped will fit me nice. But not this time. I wanted a white plane. I am building so called black 12. It is the plane next up to the fa mos red 2. The thing i liked most, is because it has an full aluminum nose. Thou gether with the overall white and ALL blue undersurface it wil look very nice  ;D

Currently i am busy to filter the cockpit. When i recieved my AKAN paint, i saw that my interpetation of A-14 steel grey a bit lighter is. Now i use filters to tone the colors down to a more A-14 worthy color...I intend to have three filter layers on it, and then check it to compare to A-14.

Then i go for to filter on the radio componements and the seat. The seat will be faded on the leather parts.
Then the magic chipping will occure and dirty the cockpit floor a bit  ;D

Photo's will be posted as soon as i am ready with the filter  :)

Regards,

Remco

Hi Remco,
what filter do you use?
I tried some based on turpentine + artistic oil paints. But something went wrong as it was dry after maybe 2 weeks, or even longer  >:(
Now I use only a very very diluted enamel paints and Tamiya Panel Line Accent Color - black, brown and grey. And by mixing them I can get anything betwen light grey through brownish dark grey and very dark grey/brown to black.
Good luck with your Mig-3.

     66misos

The problem is with the turpentine. When it's too old you need to replace it. Just use white spirit instead. It's better.

hi all,
How is this Tamiya? Is it a thinned acrilic trasparent color, or what else?
Regards
Massimo

Hi Massimo,
those Tamiya Panel Line Accent Color - black, brown and grey are not acrylics. It is something synthetic. If necessary, I thin it with the same thinner (generic oil-synthetic thinner, local product, nothing specific for modellers, e.g. it is a big amount for minimum money :)) as I use sometimes to thin Humbrol and Revell enamels and mainly for airbrush cleaning after using enamels.

You can use it directly from bottle, it looks like a thinner in which you clean brush. And it works very well in all kinds of the recessed lines and other details. I thin it only when color is too strong for a particular purpose.
Examples: engine - not thinned black/brown mixture, upper wings - thinned black/brown/grey mixture, under wings - thinned grey/brown mixture, etc.

      66misos

Hey guys  :D

66misos,
I think the combination of turpentine and oil paint is what makes it greasy. I use MiG modeling turpentine for washes. Now in combination with Humbrol 87, i hope to make the base color a bit darker.

Its better if you use more known brands in the modeling world, like MiG, Humbrol, Testors enz.
This especially counts for oil paints like Rembrands, Van Gogh and my new personal favorite Abteilung 502. These Abteilung paints are first class. The drying time on these oil paints is reduced by 50% if you use lighter fluids like Zippo, instead of turpentine, then the drying time is even more reduced  :D.

MiG also makes good and ready to go washes and filters. I have a lot of these and use them with great ease. On the back armorplate i also Will use a MiG filter. The one for light green vehicles.

Hi Misos, hi all,
from what you write, it looks comparable with the mix that I'm already using. Maybe I'll buy it for a test, to see if its smell is better of worse. Do you know how it reacts on enamels?
Regards
Massimo

Hi Massimo,
as I thin it with the same thinner as enamels, I would expect some "negative" reaction. That is why I rather apply some acrylic coat on the enamels before applying Tamiya Panel Line Accent Color or I work very carefully directly on enamels. It will be too late when seeing some (possible) enamel paint damage on the kit but I am too lazy to experiment with it.

Regards,
     66misos

Small question here; The air system tubes are black... Is the airbottle for the airsystem black? I know that the oxygen bottle is blue. I painted the air system bottle black, then i saw some people painted it blue, and i also painted it blue. Now i read that the airsystem tubes painted black, so assume that the airbottle also must be black  ???

Anny ideas?

Hey guys  :D

It was long, but progress is made!  ;D

(http://s20.postimg.org/6h76zice1/mig_3_07_05_2013_002.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/6h76zice1/)
I weathered the grey with a filter made from Humbrol 87 and Mig thinner for washes (1 paint and 9 thinner). It has 6 layers on it. The wood part i weathered with AK dark brown wash. 1 layer has bin added.

(http://s20.postimg.org/xt2g0uh4p/mig_3_07_05_2013_004.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/xt2g0uh4p/)
Cockpit received the same  grey filter as above.

(http://s20.postimg.org/qed48gv95/mig_3_07_05_2013_007.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/qed48gv95/)

(http://s20.postimg.org/55zfr1gs9/mig_3_07_05_2013_008.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/55zfr1gs9/)
Okay, the hard part here... I used Mig filter for light green vehicles on here, drybrushed the leather and finished with a brown wash to recapture the seems. I had difficulty with making the leather not to worn. This MiG looks not new, but its not a war veteran ether... I sometimes must contain the ''tankbuilder'' in me, because its simply no armor project  ;D

(http://s20.postimg.org/h94relruh/mig_3_07_05_2013_010.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/h94relruh/)
The radio stuff and plank had also grey filters and the radio equipment received a lighter filter with WEM Baltic sea ship color. This had a blueish glow over it and tried to come closer to the Eduard PE radio front. Its strange because i also have La-5 PE from Eduard and here is the (same) radio front darker, more to A-14 steel grey... ???

Hope you like it  ;)

Regards,

Remco

Very good work on the interior, Remco!

Regards,

Jason

Hi 4bogreen,
very nice. I have not patience to pay so much attention to interior. I always admire such work. I am curious for the final result.

   66misos

@Remco
Some good results. :D

Good job with the interiors, Remco.
I would suggest the use of oil paints for washs and filters. They are very easy to use and their long drying time allows corrections. If thinned with Humbrol Enamel Thinner you can achieve very subtle effects due to its capillar distribution in every recess. They can also be used to reproduce wood by simply exploiting the stains that the brush Leaves. See the picture of my Pfalz D.IIIa: http://www.sitohd.com/otto/foto/230978.jpg

Regarding the MiG-3 colors it seems to me that the data COMING FROM WARTIME PICTURES are:
- The frame pipes can be dark or light (some color pictures show them light blue).
- The seat armour is dark.
- The seat is light, as the cockpit floor (see here: http://sovietwarplanes.com/board/index.php?topic=1601.0)
- The instrument panel can be light or dark.
- The inner side of the engine panels are the same color of the outer green upper surfaces.

Analysis of wrecks shows:
- Dark grey or black frame pipes.
- Steel back armour is bright green Painted what seems a black or dark grey primer.
- A black cover is fixed above the natural aluminium instrument plate. It seems that the cover can be removed without affecting the instruments fixing.
- The seat is a bright light green or natural aluminium. It seems to me unlikely that the bent seat is faded A-14: no scratches can be seen.
- According to witnesses, the inner side of the Finnish wreck are light blue.
- On the Finnish wreck the radio vane behind the pilot is natural wood. This is very srange because it means that the fuselage is painted after fixing the rear canopy or after masking the inside.

In my modest opinion I think that the inner colors could have different standards, possibly due to different sub-contractors. A picture of Yak-1 assembly line in the book "Colors of the Falcons" shows light and dark fuselage frames.

Hi Otto,
Are you sure? I think that the inside of the rear fuselage is unpainted wood, but the radio deck is green as the outside.
Regards
Massimo

It is very difficult to see, but while the canopy inner frame and base are green, the fuselage sides under the canopy seem natural wood.
Are there other color pictures of this item?

Are you referring to this?
https://plus.google.com/photos/104977000387940344883/albums/5633393064105837249/5855875212399880418?banner=pwa&pid=5855875212399880418&oid=104977000387940344883 (https://plus.google.com/photos/104977000387940344883/albums/5633393064105837249/5855875212399880418?banner=pwa&pid=5855875212399880418&oid=104977000387940344883)
Hard to say... the plate with the hole looks green to my eye as its extension aside the canopy frame, but I can't be sure. However it was visible from above, so I think it should be green.
(http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/mig3/struc2m.jpg) this image doesn't show difference, I think it was already painted green.
Regards
Massimo

Hey guys  :D

@ Otto: Thanks for the link to your build. It seems very nice  8). I painted the rear in a plain woodcolor, because you almost not see it. The cockpit is small and when the seat is installed, you don't see much behind it... So detailing the wood is in this case pointless  :(
In the case of the metals painted in A-14, i have a theory. The aluminium was primed in yellow(ish) paint, steel usually in dark red. The difference in background coses the declaration of the topcolor. This could explain the different "shade" of the A-14 paint on different underground... The US made P-39 even had different wheelbay colors. This because the wings were made by Boeing, and the fuselage by Bell. Boeing used a yellowish primer, Bell a more greenish one. So there was a difference in color in the wheelbay era, partly green and yellow  :D Its possible that the MiG (especially in the early series) had different primercolors...

The MiG is put on halt, because i wanted to build the La5F and paint some figures to go with my T-34, for a competition...

Regards,

Remco  :)

It has been a while... Now i have glued the flaps in place. It needs a lot of TLC...

(http://s20.postimg.org/fpsplcy7t/tmp_DSC_0146_154581089.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/fpsplcy7t/)

(http://s20.postimg.org/548u9crw9/tmp_DSC_01471488337377.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/548u9crw9/)

(http://s20.postimg.org/hzgtw475l/tmp_DSC_0150_1623330749.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/hzgtw475l/)

(http://s20.postimg.org/55is2rtq1/tmp_DSC_0148377417636.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/55is2rtq1/)

(http://s20.postimg.org/eekycw2m1/tmp_DSC_0149_1640287654.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/eekycw2m1/)

Regards,

Remco

I also tried to install the Eduard flaps on my MiG-3, but I destroyed them :'(.
What did you use to reproduce the exhausts' fairings? Is it lead? I removed the kit ones and reinstalled them after thinning.

Well Otto, the wings are so thin, that the plastic starts to deform due the heat of sanding.
I hope i can fix this. I put a lot of time and effort in it. Failure (again) is not an option.
The fairings are from lead. It went in very nice and looks good on to scale.

Hi Remco, a friend of mine used lead for such pieces, but after a long time it formed a white powder that required to retouch the paint.
Regards
Massimo

Hi Massimo,

Its called lead oxide (the white pouder). I have read something on it, and general advice is to use a metal primer. I have a bottle of primer where the M1 Abrams tanks are sprayed with. I think it will hold the lead oxide off for quite a while. A bigger worry for me, is the very thin plastic wing. And how to glue this properly on the metal flaps... Challanges, Challanges...

Hi Remco, isn't cyanoacrilate good enough?
Regards
Massimo

Massimo, yes the CA glue is good, but i dint have my favorite brand now. I have to buy some new.
The big issue is that i have to pinch the two parts thought. The flaps are very fragile, so it Will be challenging  ;D

Hi Remco,
perhaps it is better to pass a thin layer of cyanoacrylate glue on the plastic on the inside and let it dry before gluing the piece.
Regards
Massimo

Hi Massimo,

Seems like a good solution. I have a new bottle of Zapp a gap, so we have a try. Currently i have set a goal to finnish the La-5F first, so i think i can second. Although i have plans worked out for making a LaGG-3 with engine expsosed and the engine panels off... Also a bit of a kitbash. Seems a very nice idea.

Regards,

Remco

Hi Remco,
a LaGG-3 with engine exposed looks interesting. What pieces will you use?
Regards
Massimo

Hi Massimo!

I will use the  Zvezda Yak-3 engine and engineframe where i can. I was looking for info and (again) ended up here (where else??)
The frame is not the same as the LaGG-3, but i can modify the frame (i love scratch building). I use the ICM kit and the vector cockpit set. Also some eduard PE and a new canopy i have to build this plane.

Regards

Remco

Hi Remco, interesting idea, to use the Yak-3 of Zvezda. A good and cheap source of details. Can the kit be built after having subtracted those pieces?
Regards
Massimo

Yes Massimo, Zvezda Yak-3 has parts to show the engine compartment both "all open" and "all closed". A clever solution, but my self-flogging plans for it are leaving only some engine panels open, thus needing trimming and scratch-building.

Well, i have taken a look for the detail on the engine and its great! Its a kit on its own. Zvezda did a great job!
Now i have a very nice yak-3 and a engine for my Lagg-3. I think doing the same with my Petlyakov Pe-2...

Hi guys,

i have taken the mig-3 out of the mothballs (big sneeze of the dust  :D). The flaps have been succesfully glued to the warped plastic. Now for the last time i put the parts on witch i have doubts, in the putty. I hope i have the plane in the basecolors before christmas (ambitious, i know). I have a bit of daubts how to paint the landing gear leggs. A-14, underside blue or silver (sometimes seen on VVS planes). The basecolors are Akan MK7 white, Alclad  polished aluminium. The only thing i have to choose, are between Akan AMT-7 or A II G blue... Suggestions are welcome!

Regards,

remco

Hi Remco,
what plane do you want to represent? Black 12?
I don't think it has MK-7 on its wings and rear fuselage, but a glossy nitro paint.
About the legs, for what I know they are of the colour of the outside, that is light blue.
From the photo, one can suspect that the undersurface is silver; if this is scarcely credible, I suggest the lighter and more glossy of the blue shades, that is AII light blue.
Regards
Massimo

Hi Massimo,

Its the black 12 plane i want to build. I kan also use A-11 for the white part. If its a matt paint, its no problem. I always spray the model in a glossy lacquer (Alclad aqua gloss alc 600). MK-7 is a bit off white with a greyish glow.

The underside and landing gear will be A II G blue. I think its possible that the undersurface was silver, i have more the idea its the A II G blue color...

I have just sanded the parts were i put some putty on it. I have to clean the parts and the its primer time.

Thanks for your advice Massimo!

Regards,

Remco

Another question that has me wandering all the time. The panel on top between the windshield and the silver nose, with the radiomast on it. I think its also a bare metal/ aluminium cover. The contast between the radiomast and the cover is just as high as the nose section. Red two and the plane further down the row have evendently white covers compared with black 12... It looks very plaussible. Also it could be a field emergency repair. Take out the nose and damaged panels. Although many parts had a basecolor or primer (or they had only a stash of silver paint...)
Any thought about this??

Hi Remco,
the panel over the nose seems silver too. From what I remember, the technicians of the unit made a great effort to make operational the biggest number of planes for the ceremony, so they cannibalized some to do so. This explains the odd look of some of them.
Regards
Massimo

I already thougth it was silver  :D That wil be a nice addition to the colors. Now i know a bit better to paint and how to weather this bird. Great! Now i only have to make the tail wheel cover, and then were on to the cleaning procces. Followed by the painting  :)

I was not really sasisfied with my RS-82 rockets. Vector makes a kit and i went of to purchace it.

(http://s20.postimg.org/3ouyik2ih/image.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/3ouyik2ih/)

This is how it supose to look like, parts are unfortunally broken, like some wings of the rockets and some of the rails are broken from their casting blocks...  :-\

Let's see some more photographs, Remco!

Regards,

Jason

oke Jason, here are the rockets...

(http://s20.postimg.org/4rpcpkam1/DSC_0439.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/4rpcpkam1/)

Unfortunately the rockets need a lot of attention.

The rest of the plane goes pretty well. The rails of the rockets belong to Petlyakov Pe-2 like planes, so i wil use the rockets only. I am almost finished with the toutch ups and sanding. I wil put it thoughetter and take some photo's soon

Regards,

Remco

Ouch on the rockets! I'm sure you'll get them sorted out, Remco.

Regards,

Jason

I think the rockets will be OK Jason. No worries  ;D I put the plane thoughetter with blue tac (sort of) and had a intresting discovery. The landing gear leggs are made when there is no weight on it! When i installed the upper landing gear covers (the part with the knack in it), did not cover the leggs completely. When i looked for reference photo's, my plane was ''high'' on his leggs, while on photo's, the plane is lower to the ground... On to my sidecutter, putty and sanding tools. Modification: Lost count... ::)

Regards,

Remco

Hi,

This is a bad thing never described before, for what I know. I suggest to insert a metal pin to streghten the legs after the cutting.

Regards
Massimo

Hi Massimo,

I have made the leggs a bit shorter. I have added a metal pin for strenght, like you suggested. Looking now at the angle now and the photo's, the plane now has a more realistic height. Also the PE parts are now better in place.

(http://s20.postimg.org/j8m9ezvsp/DSC_0442.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/j8m9ezvsp/)

I have taken a look at the control surfaces on the wings, and filled these up with a small evergreen strip due a too large gap between the wing and the control sufaces. Finally the last part with putty...

Regards,

Remco

Yes! The plane is done! i only have to make a small modification to the gunsight, but that is a small thing.
I am ''bluetacking'' the plane all thoughetter for some photo's.  :D :D :D
And then...primertime!!!

Ready... Yes, Ready  :o Now everything has come thougether, i can see why the MiG-3 is such an atractive aircraft. Its lines are beautiful. A sleek and dynamic design.

(http://s20.postimg.org/ji7q4dpdl/IMG_20141217_020451.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/ji7q4dpdl/)

(http://s20.postimg.org/ityvlfqnt/IMG_20141217_020425.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/ityvlfqnt/)

(http://s20.postimg.org/pygougxx5/IMG_20141217_020357.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/pygougxx5/)

(http://s20.postimg.org/x2yi3i56h/IMG_20141217_020335.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/x2yi3i56h/)

(http://s20.postimg.org/90ho8mojd/IMG_20141217_020309.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/90ho8mojd/)

I hope you like it!

Regards,

Remco

Looking good, what colour are you using for the inside of the flaps ?

Cheers

Dennis

Good work, Remco! I look forward to seeing her with the paint on.

Regards,

Jason

Thanks guys  :D

@ Dennis- I wil paint the inside of the flaps AII blue, just like the underside.

@ Jason- I hope to paint soon. Do you know what colors the rockets and rocketframe was? My best guess is 4BO green...

Regards,

Remco

I don't know about the MiG-3, Remco, Massimo is a better bet there. However, for Il-2's, I paint the rocket rails black or the undersides colour (blue) (black if they're the old-style RO-82 rails, or blue if they're the streamlined rails). The rockets could be green, or they could be silver (natural metal), or they could be black, or a combination of black and silver. Sometimes they were black with a silver arming vane; sometimes black with a silver nose; sometimes silver with a black nose, etc. I'd look at photographs if you have them.

Regards,

Jason

Hi Remco, hi Jason,
there are photos of a set of rails for MiG-3 with olive green finish somewhere, I think on scalemodels.ru.
About the rockets, I've photos of black rockets with olive green terminal part and fins; another photo shows silver body with green (or black) rear part.
Regards
Massimo

Intresting details here. I have looked at some photo's and seeing some rockets with a silver nose and black rear. The rocket rails is going to be olive green. Thanks for the assistance!  :)

I'm glad that came up now I know what to do with my kits rockets, thanks

Cheers

Dennis

Truly a great job, Remco  :D. I tried to mount Eduard flaps on my MiG-3, but I destroyed them  :'(!
You said that you will paint the flaps inner side blue, but Massimo's profile shows silver undersurfaces. Has anything changed in the information about this aircraft?

Hi Otto,
there are not new informations apart the known photo, only different interpretations, both possible.
Regards
Massimo

Hey guys!

Today i went up to the addic and immediately started spraying my MiG-3  :D . I am almost ready with the basecolor. Unfortunately, spraying the windshield, went not that well... The mask let lose while spraying and now i have two black dots on it  >:( . I did purchase the ICM replacement canopy from squadron, and i only intended to use the hood on it. The windshield is a bit smaller for the Trumpeter kit but i am having it ready, if i can not save the kit windshield. I sanded carefully the spots away with my glass fiber sanding pen and diped it again in the Alclad ALC 600 gloss clear cote. This stuff is great! When diped in, you can GE with Zapp a gap on it without having the so called whiteout on glass parts. The most is gone, but i think i have a try by poleshing the spots and dip it again in the lacquer. This procces must be done first, or i can not paint the Alclad aluminium coat on it...

@ Otto- its just my conclusion by looking at the photo (especially the landing gear doors). Both can be possible. That's also the nice thing, people are always openminded here. And the most important thing here, is to have fun. And building this MiG is fun and a challenge

Regards,

Remco

Hi Remco,
the white paint on the windshield was acrilic, or an enamel? Acrilics can be easily removed by alchohol without fogging the canopy (please make a test on a sprue before attempting, sometimes one can find types of plastic different from expectations).

Regards
Massimo

Welcome back, Remco!
I suggest to avoid solvent on the clear parts. And I don't like using clear varnish on them. I am almost sure that paint can be removed by gently polishing it with a cotton stick or cotton ball soaked with Tamiya Rubbing Compound. See it here:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/TAMIYA-Model-Polishing-Compound-Combo-Set-Coarse-Fine-Finish-87068-87069-87070-/200831646612
Starting with Coarse, then Fine and Finish all the paint, dirt and scratches should be removed. The final touch is cleaning the piece with a goggles-cleaning cloth.
Only if necessary (heavier fogging or scratches on the canopy), you can precede these operations by rubbing it with Alclad Micro Mesh clothes. See them here:
http://www.cybermodeler.com/hobby/tools/mm/tool_micromesh.shtml
On my MiG-3 I thinned down the canopy in a rough manner with coarse sandpaper, and through this method I polished it back to crystal clear shine. You can see these operations here:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/98044098@N04/sets/72157634837916105/
I would suggest to purchase these polishing stuff: their performance, not only on canopies but also on painted surfaces, is amazing!

Hey guys!

Well, as soon things went bad, i took action instandly. The pollishing of the canopy was a small disaster. I need the things that Otto sugested badly. I cut off the glass part from the base. I thought i had cut it properly, the base part i need broke in three pieces. The glass went of perfect in one piece. Just how i NOT needed it. While cursing for a whole 15 minutes, i was ready to glue the base part thoughetter. After trying to fit this chinese 3D puzzle, i stoped at the eight time. I cot cut off the parts straight and glued a piece of styrene between it. Also a thin piece of styrene was glued on for stability. Now waiting how it dries up and sand it in to place. Then the big challange of making the glass on the base... Did i mentioned that modeling aircraft is cursed by me??

Some say modeling is a relaxing hobby! :-X
I did not understand exactly what happened to your MiG, but it seems not much different from a disaster I made on a Fokker D.VII wing just after I finished painting lozenge camouflage with airbrush and custom made masks! :'(

Hi Remco,
I suggest to take some time before making risky works on this canopy again.
I wonder if vacuformed canopies for Trumpeter are available on the aftermarket. They would fit better. I haven't seen the windshield of your vacuformed canopy, but the piece of ICM is not the best one of their kit, and I wonder if the vacuformed piece could have the same errors as an heritage.
Regards
Massimo

Remco, the only aftermarket canopy appears to be Squadron's for ICM MiG-3, matching the kit's piece.
I think that, if you can repair your canopy, no matters if it's not clear anymore, you can use it as a mould for vacuform. You should separate the clear part from the upper fuselage portion, then fill it with Milliput or similar putty and sand off all the frames. The shape is not too complicate and vacuforming should be successful. The clear central "frames", which were glue joints, can be reproduced by masking and spraying clear varnish on them.
As an alternative, you could buy another kit (MiG-3 is worth making more than one!) and make a resin copy of the canopy to be used as a vacuform mould.

Hmm, i am taking a shot now with the Squadron signal vacuformed windshield designed for the ICM kit. Its a bit shorter and does not have the nice detail. Unfortunally i don't have a vacuform machine. I will have a tripple check when ready. I now glued and filled the base to the plane. Hope i can sand it properly whitout destroying the detail. Alclad paint goes there, so no room for errors... My next plan (plan 3) is indeed to buy a new kit for the windshield. The rest i can use for my MiG-210 project... I have come so far, willing to give up on it twice, now its time to finnish this beautiful plane.

Hi,
I don't think that a kit of MiG-3 without canopy would be useful for a conversion into I-210, because they had the same canopy. Eventually it could give a backup in case of unsatisfactory result of the conversion work.
Eventually, you could employ a kit with ruined windshield to make a diorama where the canopy is covered by a cover, by snow or damaged by enemy fire.
Regards
Massimo

The MiG-3 windshield, after removing the lower "metallic" part, is rather simple and it should not be necessary a vacuform machine to thermoform it. See the pictures here:
http://mab.forumfree.it/?t=67626889&st=45
I used this system to make a new windshield for my ICM 1/72 I-16.

Hey,

Well i had a look, and have decided i will buy a new kit. Its no problem. Now i can see with parts i have to inclued from the Zvezda La-5 kit, to build a MiG-I210. Massimo, is the windshield of the I210 the same as the La-5? I think i read it somewere... The canopy and rear window is the same. In the Squadron signal vacuformed canopy are two sets. So i can use the canopy of the second set for the I210.
Windshield is diped in Alclad ALC 600. Almost time for a second shot. Thanks for the info Otto!

Remco

Hi Remco,
the canopy of I-210 is a standard MiG-3 one. Probably you can use the engine cowling and other pieces from a La-5, but not the windshield.
From the photos, I think that the fuselage has to be 'fattened' if compared to a standard MiG-3, in section by sure, and probably in height too.
Regards
Massimo

Hi Massimo,

I had a look at some photo's and youre right. Its indeed the MiG-3 whindshield. 

Working on the new windshied went great. Its almost finished and ready for installment. Its masking time for me. I have to mask all the parts that not have to be aluminium. i wil be so happy when i finnish the basecolor. Then the fun part starts for me. Hope to spray the aluminium tomorrow. I wil post some photo's when the basecolor is done.

regards,

remco

Hi Remco,

I'm happy that your work on the new windshield is going well. Is it from the other Trumpeter kit?
As a conversion for a MiG-3, I-230 looks very attractive, and probably it will give a way to use a MiG-3 without canopy (and to vacuform a new one)
Regards
Massimo

The aluminium is sprayed on... Now i have to put on my beloved Alclad ALC 600 coat on the plane and then the fun part starts. I am so glad the paint went on nicely.

Massimo, i wanted to build actual warbirds. I am not a prototype builder. In tank modeling we also have the socalled "paper panzers" of kits who never leave the drawing boar,  or not came further than a wooden mock up. I personally find it a waist of time and material.  Instead they could make a nice new T-60 light tank, or a MiG-31 or a new Yak 1,7 and 9. Oh well, we see what happens...

Hi Remco,
I see your preference for operative planes, so we can take into account that 7 I-230s were built, compared to 5 I-210s, and saw a limited operative use with the PVO (if I remember well, with the same unit of Black 12).
I agree about the need of new and better kits of those subjects; I would add that the T-54, although being one of the most built and exported tanks, is heavily badly represented by all the few producers that remembered its existance.
Regards
Massimo

Hi Massimo,

I never thought that the I-230 was active. I have just read some about it. Intresting. Plane looks very nice. Maybe in the future...

I just did some detail painting on it (rear landingwheel and tarp). A small chip has let lose on the propellor. I think i spray it again. Everything is very smooth, and i am happy with it. I gonna make some photo's and post them.

Regards,

Remco

Hi Remco,
I-230 saw limited activity. It could be more difficult than I-210, I've the impression that the structural differences were deeper despite the same engine. I think that it will require a new widened canopy, a new ventral cooler, modifications to the tail and a new landing gear, apart for the obvious lenghtening of the fuselage.
Regards
Massimo

The I-230 is indeed to difficult to build. Tonight i am going to spray the aluminium (again).

Hey guys,

Everthing went perfect! Small question. The red stars under the wings, were they black outlined or just red?

Regards,

Remco

Hi Remco,
I suppose that they were as those on the fuselage.
Regards
Massimo

Oke, thanks Massimo  :D

Finally paint!!!!  :D

(http://s20.postimg.org/aaeanphh5/IMG_20150216_144830.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/aaeanphh5/)

(http://s20.postimg.org/5eanw0hbt/IMG_20150216_144958.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/5eanw0hbt/)

(http://s20.postimg.org/jjggxtqd5/IMG_20150216_144908.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/jjggxtqd5/)

(http://s20.postimg.org/stsl1d12x/IMG_20150216_145033.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/stsl1d12x/)

All painted in Alclad AII light blue, MK-7 white and Alclad polished aluminium. Decal time!

Hope you like it!

Regards,

Remco

Hi Remco,
very nice paint job. However I am surprised with such big unpainted/NMF areas. Is that according to the real plane? Could you post a photo?
Regards,
   66misos

Here it is 66misos

(http://s20.postimg.org/s04q22u2h/foto12.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/s04q22u2h/)

HTH,

Remco

Hi Remco, hi Misos,
I like how the model is coming.
The aluminium areas have to be intended as aluminium painted, not as natural metal.
Regards
Massimo

Hi Massimo,
Do you mean silver "serebrjanka" discussed in the thread about colorizing winter Il-2. http://sovietwarplanes.com/board/index.php?topic=1799.msg15562#msg15562 (http://sovietwarplanes.com/board/index.php?topic=1799.msg15562#msg15562)
Pilot had to have it difficult with such big shining area just in front of him, especially with reflections during sunny days. He could not see anything with sun ahead.
I would say it was dirty white and play of light. Note how darker looks wing and horizontal stabilizer upper surface.
Regards,
    66misos

Hi Misos,
it's true that shining is unpleasant for a pilot, but Soviet planes of late '30s were often painted silver without any antiglare panel, so it's possible that this one was so too, as it looks. I don't think that there are multiple shades of white on this plane. The uppersurfaces were not more lightened than the undersurfaces because they received the light of the sun, but not the light reflected by the snowy surface.
I wonder if the back of the prop blades was black, but it doesn't seem.
Regards
Massimo

No worries Massimo! If i wanted to paint it perfect natural aluminium, i had to put on a gloss coat first. Now it looks painted on. And i still have to weather it. So i am no that concerned  :D

I just put on the decals, i wil post some photos soon!

Regards,

Remco

Photo's  :D

(http://s20.postimg.org/l3vwqgbeh/IMG_20150218_113830.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/l3vwqgbeh/)

(http://s20.postimg.org/sl545o0xl/IMG_20150218_113741.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/sl545o0xl/)
...and the i discovered that something is not right...

(http://s20.postimg.org/5xpuzildl/IMG_20150218_113801.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/5xpuzildl/)
Hmm, i i don't tell, you don't see it??  :D
On to the airbrush...

Hi Remco,
the elevator with inverted painting, you mean?
Well, I've always thought that light blue bands could be camouflaging on a snowy background.
Regards
Massimo

Hi massimo,

It was a funny thing. I tried to fit one of the elevator (the wrong one ofcourse), and it would fit badly. I was a bit mad, becouse it always fited while testing. So, i got the right one and hold them thoughetter and found the problem  :D

I corrected the parts and sprayed them right. I hope tomorrow i can put on the gloss coat.

Regards,

Remco

I have put on the gloss coat on the MiG for protection from weathering. I want to chip/weather the windows with the masks first, so i can not exedential toutch the transparant glass parts. Then i make some photo's of the whole. Its a very nice combination of colours wth the blue, white, silver and red stars.

Regards,

Remco  :D

Hi Remco,
i wait to see images of your finished model.
Regards
Massimo

Hey Massimo  :D

Well, the plane is not finnished yet. Now i am busy with pre-chipping of the blue undersurface. I am not happy with a row of rivets i placed back then. I am going to try to correct this also... Photo's!

(http://s20.postimg.org/3mmc2dzuh/IMG_20150305_182344.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/3mmc2dzuh/)

(http://s20.postimg.org/547sdy4l5/IMG_20150305_182448.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/547sdy4l5/)

(http://s20.postimg.org/a1lcz26k9/IMG_20150305_182423.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/a1lcz26k9/)

(http://s20.postimg.org/eq1cu8vqx/IMG_20150305_182519.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/eq1cu8vqx/)

Busy, busy, busy... :D

Hello Remco, your are doing a good and clean job on your MiG!
Sorry, but I noticed a little mistake: the two vertical "frames" on the windscreen were not metallic, but glued joints between its three elements. See here:
http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/mig3/yuri-rr/canopy.htm
It seems to me that also wartime pictures confirm this.
I think the best (or the only) way to reproduce them is leaving these two "frames" unpainted. In case you want to correct it, DON'T USE SOLVENT! Gently rub them with a cotton swab soaked with Tamiya Polishing Compound and the paint quickly disappears without leaving traces.

Hi,
that is right, pity that I didn't noticed this when the first canopy was unmasked.
Hasn't this windscreen already been passed with any gloss cote, isn't it?
Regards
Massimo

Hey guys!

I found a photo of the windshield.  Its very hard to find a nice close up of the window
(http://s20.postimg.org/by0641kmx/image.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/by0641kmx/)

With the fuzz i had on the windshield, i think i leave it like that. Like Massimo earlier sad, it can be painted in aluminium. Thanks for the comment, if i knew it earlier, i would do some better research on it.

Regards,

Remco

Hi Remco,
It's certainly better to leave it as it is; being the model nearly finished, the risk to ruin it is too high.
Regards
Massimo

Hey guys!

We are making some progress here with the weathering. Some photo's of a step by step progress.

 (http://s20.postimg.org/qrj0cnpdl/DSC_0563.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/qrj0cnpdl/)

(http://s20.postimg.org/nagy9oqbd/DSC_0560.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/nagy9oqbd/)

This is the underside. I blend the colours with a brush and a little bit of thinner for washes. Works for me.

Top side. The white is done with some oil paint of Panzer abt 503. This to have a nice contrast between the wood and aluminium parts.

(http://s20.postimg.org/m4cyaw20p/DSC_0567.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/m4cyaw20p/)
No paint added

(http://s20.postimg.org/4psq2m4vt/DSC_0566.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/4psq2m4vt/)
Small white dots added for blending

(http://s20.postimg.org/gdmrx5u0p/DSC_0565.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/gdmrx5u0p/)
Here is the result of the blending of the white oil paint

Now the darkness in the wooden parts is now a bit "softer" than before.

Hope you like it!

Great work, Remco! You wil be finished with this MiG-3 soon.

Regards,

Jason

Well, i still have to weather the metal parts and make some oil and grease/fuel staines. Also thinking about a snowy undergroud for effect.

Finally i got some time to weather the aluminium. This is the result till now...

(http://s20.postimg.org/ybc528v21/image.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/ybc528v21/)

(http://s20.postimg.org/u0xh6npyx/image.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/u0xh6npyx/)

(http://s20.postimg.org/s7ukic4s9/image.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/s7ukic4s9/)

(http://s20.postimg.org/6wx0e2mnt/image.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/6wx0e2mnt/)

(http://s20.postimg.org/f154it92x/image.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/f154it92x/)

...and i had started on my snowy base for the MiG.

(http://s20.postimg.org/fx1ly9ird/image.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/fx1ly9ird/)

 :D

Great work there, Remco!

Regards,

Jason

Remco,
although I am not confident about so big metal/alluminium areas on the fron fuselage, I must say it looks realy nice! Very nice.
regards,
   66misos

Very good looking MiG, Remco!
I would suggest a wash with thinned dark oil paint in the wheel bays, like you did on the cowling.
The rear flaps on the engine oil coolers are missing: will you install them later?

Hi 66misos! I have looked the photo a lot of times, but i think i am quite "on target" with this one. Its not perfect, but i do the best i can. It's my second plane, so i am also new to the weathering techniques and wear and tear from planes. Sometimes i am quite surprised by the results, like weathering results of the nose section and the snowy base for the MiG...

Thanks Otto! I am going to weather the wheelbase with mig dark wash. I weathered the aluminium also only with the dark wash. Quite happy with the results, it is now my biggest friend  :D The rear flaps of the oil cooler, i will install them Tonight.

Hi Remco,
beautiful model indeed. I wait to see it on its base.
Regards
Massimo

Busy with the MiG. The rockets and aerial mast must be fitted and then i am calling it finnished.

(http://s20.postimg.org/stulyymux/image.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/stulyymux/)

(http://s20.postimg.org/5ecotm33t/image.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/5ecotm33t/)

(http://s20.postimg.org/6fcxiqk3d/image.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/6fcxiqk3d/)

Regards,

Remco

Hi Remco, very good model.
I suggest to add a stripe of sheet over the junction between cowling and spinner. It was introduced more or less at the start of the war, and covers only the upper part of the slot. I think that an adhesive aluminium tape, or even a painted piece of paper, should work.
Regards
Massimo

Hey Massimo! Thanks.

Were was this piece exactly located? Do you have photo's? Then i can certainly thy to add it.

Hi
it's well visible here, over the gap between spinner and cowling.
(http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/mig3/trainingr.jpg)
It can be seen on plane 12, magnifying the photo.
(http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/mig3/foto12.jpg)
On this plane, it extends on the sides too; the lateral extension changes from plane to plane.
You can find a similar protection on Il-2s too, after the war outbreak.
Regards
Massimo

Hi Massimo!

I see indeed a small strip. Its a weird "upgrade". Why did they do that? Improved aerodynamics? Balancing the propeller? Was the aluminium plating to much stressed in flight?

The best thing next to aluminium tape, is some Tamiya masking tape i have. Cutting a piece of 1.5 or 2mm, and then put it in to place. Painting it with some Modelmaster aluminium paint. It seems to stop at the bottom cowling. I wil make it tonight and post a photo of the upgrade.

Having quite a few aircraft kits, i have to upgrade my aircraft atheisives. I think i have a look for the aluminium tape....

Hi Remco,
I suppose that it was to prevent snow from entering into the gap.
Regards
Massimo

Like this?

(http://s20.postimg.org/6vktjbkmx/image.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/6vktjbkmx/)

(http://s20.postimg.org/6hjhjq0jd/image.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/6hjhjq0jd/)

More or less, but it should adhere to the cowling only, leaving a small gap with the spinner. Besides it should be divided as the panels of the cowling.
Regards
Massimo

Hi guys,

I have made a upgrade on the rocket rails. I was not really sadisfied with the "endproduct". I thought i give it an other shot. I took the rails from the spare parts kit and instead of making new ones with Evergreen, i hollowed them out with a scribing tool. With a razorblade i made a cut in the length of the rails, in the middle. I used a scribing tool to make it hollow. The end of the rails was sanded down and i added the small bolts with my punch and die set. At the back of the rails, i made the aerodynamic fins and the pipes were the rockets are fitted in.

The rockets of Vector were horrible. Lots of fins were broken when i bought it. Fixing them all (almost had a nervous breakdown doing this) and putting them in a small box for more protection (they are bought in ziplock bags) three were broken again... This will be the last time i build RS-82 rockets for sure now.

Regards,

Remco

That small plate was to keep leaking fluid from the propeller (hydraulic fluid, presumably) from splashing onto the window. It was a problem not just with the Mikulins that the MiG's and Il-2's used (AM-35 and AM-38), but also with the Shevtsov M-82's on the La-5.

Regards,

Jason

Hi Jason,
interesting. Lubrification fluid I suppose.
Regards
Massimo

Aluminium tape is in! Now i can make the small strip. Here are the new rocket rails

(http://s20.postimg.org/ttwuueaex/image.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/ttwuueaex/)

While opening the box were the plane is stored, i found out that one of the landing gear leggs are broken off.... On to the Zapp a Gap...  :(

Hi Remco,
you're close to the end. I hope to see your model finished soon.
Regards
Massimo

Hi!

I just put the rocket rails in the primer and found some wire for strength, repairing the landing gear.

The MiG-3 is finnished!!!! :D I will post some photo's soon!

Regards,

Remco

Hi Remco,
it's well all that ends well.
I am very interested to look at them.
Regards
Massimo

Photo's!  :D

(http://s20.postimg.org/qbkhpphkp/DSC_0749.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/qbkhpphkp/)

(http://s20.postimg.org/xdifbwl6h/DSC_0750.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/xdifbwl6h/)

(http://s20.postimg.org/qpltpb1o9/20150528_114352.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/qpltpb1o9/)

(http://s20.postimg.org/e0rj5mvjt/image.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/e0rj5mvjt/)

I am going to make some close ups also...hope you like it!

Regards,

Remco

Hi Remco,
very good-looking model. I hope to see your Yak completed as well.
Regards
Massimo

Very nice, Remco; that turned out well!

Regards,

Jason

Some more detailed photo's
(http://s20.postimg.org/xwm8a4mrd/20150626_153801.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/xwm8a4mrd/)

(http://s20.postimg.org/m8s6fkxmh/20150626_154422.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/m8s6fkxmh/)

(http://s20.postimg.org/71c6v85rt/20150626_155637.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/71c6v85rt/)

(http://s20.postimg.org/3vrl50n5l/20150626_154059.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/3vrl50n5l/)

(http://s20.postimg.org/pjl4t7cxl/20150626_154338.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/pjl4t7cxl/)

Excelent! I like it a lot.
   66misos

Hi Remco,
very good photos. Only, the traces of the glue used to anchor the plane to the ground are desturbing when it is shown upside down.
Regards
Massimo

Very good MiG, well detailed and well painted!
I like the various shades of white on different parts of the airframe.

Hi Massimo!

It are not gluestains. Its unpainted. I thougth, it would not bother, because it was sitting on its base. I can paint it. No problem.

Thanks for the kind words Otto!

Regards,

Remco