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Print Page - New page on Il-2M3

Sovietwarplanes

Great Patriotic War Aviation => Ilyushins => Topic started by: Massimo Tessitori on March 01, 2013, 06:46:31 PM



Title: New page on Il-2M3
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on March 01, 2013, 06:46:31 PM
Hi,
a new drawing.

(http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/il-2/il2-camo/il-2m3/il2m3-bp-fl-am-07-revengeforkhistenko.jpg)

The plane is this one.
(http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/il-2/il2-camo/il2m3-566shap-mykhilik.jpg)
White 07, a plane of the 566th ShAP during summer 1944.

The inscription behind the star means 'Avenge for Khristenko' ; an unit emblem is painted forward of the star. A thin colored (blue or orange?) band passes through the fin, and the spinner tip is white.
The plane can be attributed to Z.18 because of the conformation of the tail wheel fairing and because of the camouflage of the tail with light brown rudder and dark stabilizer. Unfortunately the arm of the technician covers the gun fairings, so we can't be sure.
The livery seems similar to other planes built in Z.18, and rather different from both templates of 1943; all photos are not sufficent to clarify well how this factory painted its Shturmoviks.
(http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/il-2/il2-camo/il-2m3/53blur.jpg)
(http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/il-2/il2-camo/il-2m3/nn-z18.jpg)

below: a detail of the similar emblem painted on the plane white 17 of the same unit, flown by the (later) twice HSU V.I. Mykhlik, the commander of the squadron It represent the skyline of Leningrad, and the slogan 'Za Leningrad'. means 'for Leningrad'. The characters are not identical to those of 07 because they appear oblique on 17.
(http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/il-2/il2-camo/il-2m3/zaleningrad.jpg)

Below: a detail of Mykhlik and the tail of his plane. We can see that the number 17 was painted higher than the 07; it seems that there is an half-cap of the same color of the oblique band on the top of the rudder (but it could also be an illusion due to the light).

(http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/il-2/il2-camo/il-2m3/zaleningrad17.jpg)

Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: New page on Il-2M3
Post by: KL on March 01, 2013, 10:19:12 PM
Hi Massimo,
Are you sure about the white spinner?
Few 566 shap photos show that planes had coloured spinners, but not white.  IMHO, more likely red, blue and yellow depending on the squadron:

(http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/3/83653351.14e/0_8555a_512eee7c_XL.jpeg.jpg)
(http://s50.radikal.ru/i127/1108/c4/e0bc941aaeed.jpg)
(http://s42.radikal.ru/i096/0908/86/b38af8777248.jpg)
(http://s013.radikal.ru/i324/1108/0c/3a0d5478a65d.jpg)

Regiment's history at http://sescha.info/forum/viewtopic.php?t=350

HTH,
KL


Title: Re: New page on Il-2M3
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on March 01, 2013, 11:25:23 PM
Hi Konstantin,
no, I'm not sure. I've often seen planes with black-white spinners in the Leningrad area. The spinner of this plane looks white on the photo, but I can't be sure.
Maybe the author of the posts on the Russian forum has more informations?
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: New page on Il-2M3
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on March 07, 2013, 09:59:34 PM
Hi,
I've updated the drawing putting in evidence repaintings on the rear fuselage.
According to Alex, planes of 566 ShAP have had two white bands on the rear fuselage as unit markings during Vyborg operation in summer 1944, that were painted off at the time of these photos.
The slogan was clearly painted after this, while it's unclear if the arrow marking was older; it seems so, because its white outlines appear much less contrasting than those of the star.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: New page on Il-2M3
Post by: bbrought on March 08, 2013, 12:23:02 PM
Massimo, I think I have said this before, but your profiles are really fantastic! I can't wait for you to update or renew some of he other aircraft on the site also.


Title: Re: New page on Il-2M3
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on March 08, 2013, 01:07:17 PM
Thank you very much. I think to continue the profiles of Il-2 for a while, them I'll pass on some other thing. Perhaps an update of the MiG-3 page.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: New page on Il-2M3
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on March 11, 2013, 10:43:31 PM
Hi, I've attempted a reconstruction of the other one.


(http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/il-2/il2-camo/il-2m3/il2m3-bp-fl-am-17-zaleningrad.jpg)

Jason, do you want the file of this one too?

Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: New page on Il-2M3
Post by: learstang on March 11, 2013, 10:46:47 PM
Absolutely, Massimo!

Regards,

Jason


Title: Re: New page on Il-2M3
Post by: jonbius on March 12, 2013, 12:39:19 AM
Awesome! I just recently purchased the Accurate MiniaturesM Il-2M3, so these photos and profiles are perfect. Very nice work.


Title: Re: New page on Il-2M3
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on March 12, 2013, 07:40:05 AM
Hi Jon and Jason,
I'm thinking to make all the profiles of Il-2M3 still missing from the photos of the Il-2M3 page. So I think that there'll be some new drawings in the next months, even if they are all known planes.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: New page on Il-2M3
Post by: 4bogreen on March 12, 2013, 08:40:32 AM
Great work Massimo  :D
I think i have found a perfect profile for my IL-2!!
If its a Vyborg plane, it wil fit perfectly with my T-34 tank in Vyborg. To bad there are no decals for it... :'(

Regards,

Remco


Title: Re: New page on Il-2M3
Post by: 4bogreen on March 12, 2013, 09:45:42 AM
Ah! i found the decals  ;)


Title: Re: New page on Il-2M3
Post by: learstang on March 12, 2013, 04:58:19 PM
Speaking of decals, I have a sheet from Eagle Strike Productions, which consists of a very comprehensive set of red stars, even some silver-outlined stars (it's in 1/72nd scale, but they may have it in 1/48th scale).  I have used these stars quite a few times, and they're very nice.  My question is, though, does anyone know of a decal sheet in either 1/72nd scale or 1/48th scale that includes white numerals in the different fonts/styles the Soviets used?  That's the problem I have when I wish to do a scheme that isn't represented in kit or aftermarket sheets - the bort (aircraft number), if it's in white.  Red or black I can make myself, but my printer cannot print out in white.  So if anyone knows of such a VVS sheet, that would be a great help.  I realise there are sheets for British, American, and German white codes (I have these), but I'm specifically looking for a VVS white code sheet.

Regards,

Jason


Title: Re: New page on Il-2M3
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on May 11, 2013, 02:35:48 PM
Hi all,
here is my drawing of an already known plane for the book of Jason.
(http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/il-2/il2-camo/il-2m3/12%2B12.jpg)
(http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/il-2/il2-camo/il-2m3/il2m3-bp-fl-al-3view-12.jpg)
Quote
White 12 belongs to the same unit that appears on a movie of a postwar flight over Berlin.

The most characteristic thing is that the bort number white 12 is reported on the wingtip too.

The white part on the stabilizer looks lighter than the other white parts, so it could be a postwar addition. The plane has metal wings and the frst variant of the pattern of 1943. Note that the camo on the rear part of the fuselage and on the wings is much sharper than on the forward part of fuselage.

The sharp camouflage, the wide stars and the long tail wheel hood allows to attribute it to Z.1, even if the pattern on the right wing is less puzzle-like than usual.

I can't decide if the spinner is red or of the camo color. There are other photos of planes of the same unit, but the thing is unclear in their case too.

(http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/il-2/il2-camo/mstitel/flightoverberlin.jpg)

Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: New page on Il-2M3
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on May 11, 2013, 05:59:22 PM
Hi,
another one.

(http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/il-2/il2-camo/il-2m3/94b.jpg)

(http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/il-2/il2-camo/il-2m3/94a.jpg)

(http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/il-2/il2-camo/il-2m3/slogandet.jpg)

(http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/il-2/il2-camo/il-2m3/il2m3-bp-fl-al-3view-94.jpg)

Quote
Silver (?) 94 of capt.G.M.Parshin of 943 ShAP at the Karelian isthmus during the summer 1944. Parshin flew more than 100 missions with this plane. It has a slogan 'Mest'Barynovykh' (Avenge of the Barynovs, that are the dead in war relatives of these women ) written over the star and four victory marks painted in unknown color, possibly gold.

The photo with the trasversal bands, possibly white, is later; note that the first band is interrupted where the slogan was painted, even if we can't see it clearly on this image. Those three bands characterized the planes of 943th ShAP for the Vyborg operation in summer 1944.

The camo pattern is the first one of the directive of 1943.

The plane seems from Zavod 30, unusually without the tail boot. In consideration of the date, it could have wooden wings.

I've some doubts on the colors of the bands (white?), number (silver?) and slogan (for which I've supposed the use of golden paint).

Jason, as usual I'll send the files after eventual corrections.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: New page on Il-2M3
Post by: KL on May 11, 2013, 06:01:47 PM
Quote
White 12 belongs to the same unit that appears on a movie of a postwar flight over Berlin.

Hi Massimo,
there was a thread about Il-2 No 25 "Mstitel" somewhere on the old forum where we discussed who and when took in-flight photos.  Just wondering how do you know it was a "postwar movie"?
Regards,
KL


Title: Re: New page on Il-2M3
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on May 11, 2013, 06:17:23 PM
You are right, if the flight was on 30 April 1945, the date of the capture of the Reichstag, combats were ended there, but officially the war wasn't still end.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: New page on Il-2M3
Post by: KL on May 11, 2013, 08:42:56 PM
You are right, if the flight was on 30 April 1945, the date of the capture of the Reichstag, combats were ended there, but officially the war wasn't still end.

It was a combat flight, planes were armed and carried RS rockets.  Combats on the Soviet-German front ended on May 15th, 1945.
It wasn't a movie; a series of photos more likely.
Regards,
KL


Title: Re: New page on Il-2M3
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on May 12, 2013, 12:09:47 PM
Hi,
another one, very similar to 94.

(http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/il-2/il2-camo/il-2m3/93-1.jpg)
(http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/il-2/il2-camo/il-2m3/il2m3-bp-fl-al-3view-93.jpg)
Quote
White 93 is another plane of the 943 ShAP, very similar to the one of Parshin, but without the rear part of the canopy and with the usual flexible boot on the tail wheel typical of the planes of Z.30.
The camo pattern conforms to the first template of the directive of 1943.

Please, let me know anything wrong.

Regards
Massimo



Title: Re: New page on Il-2M3
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on May 13, 2013, 02:34:33 PM
Hi,
any idea on what is the object under the wings?
(http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/il-2/il2-camo/il2band.jpg)
It resembles a German auxiliary tank.
According to some informations, the plane is of a reconaissance unit and this could be a camera pod.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: New page on Il-2M3
Post by: learstang on May 13, 2013, 06:05:49 PM
I've wondered myself about that one, Massimo.  At first I thought it might be the elusive PLBG-150 fuel tank, but it's too short for that.  I also thought it might be the smoke-dispensing apparatus, but I believe that was hung from the wingroot bomb shackles.  I've never seen anything other than rockets hung under the outer wings, except for this photograph.  If it is a camera pod, it's not attached to an Il-2KR, as this aeroplane doesn't have the forward-mounted antenna.  However, it could just be some kind of field modification.

Regards,

Jason

P.S.  Just as an aside, this photograph may help explain why the AMT-1 on the nose was darker - it was covered by the tarpaulin and didn't fade as much.  However, you still see the darker AMT-1 on that famous in-flight photograph of the Il-2 taken from the front in a three-quarters' shot.  That was a brand-new Il-2 and was being flown by V.K. Kokkinaki, Ilyushin's chief test pilot, so the nose covering is at best only a partial explanation for the darker AMT-1 on the forward fuselage.


Title: Re: New page on Il-2M3
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on May 13, 2013, 10:28:08 PM
Hi Jason,
I've compared it with a German auxiliary tank, and it is a modified form of it. Besides I know that this plane was of 10 ORAP, a reconaissance unit.  I think that the German fuel tank was converted into a photographic pod, in facts I see a rectangular hatch on its lower side and at least two triangular windows. Note the absence of the rocket rails on this side, but I think that they had preserved them under the other wing as balance weights.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: New page on Il-2M3
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on May 13, 2013, 10:55:27 PM
I wonder if it could have a large camera instead of the rear machine gun. I don't see any barrel protruding from the cover.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: New page on Il-2M3
Post by: learstang on May 14, 2013, 02:54:08 AM
I wonder if it could have a large camera instead of the rear machine gun. I don't see any barrel protruding from the cover.
Regards
Massimo

That's certainly possible.  I think if it had the UBT, they'd have a shroud covering just the gun, not the entire rear cockpit.

Regards,

Jason


Title: Re: New page on Il-2M3
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on November 12, 2013, 01:33:39 PM
Hi, a new drawing of Il-2.
(http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/il-2/il2-camo/il-2m3/il2m3-bp-fl-al-3view-greygrey57-p.jpg)

(http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/il-2/il2-camo/il-2m3/57.jpg)

This downed Il-2 white 57 shows good resemblance with the template of 1945 below, and could be painted according to it. On the other hand, the pattern appears uncompatible with the usual templates of 1943, at least for its light tail side.
Unfortunately the date and place of the photo are unknown; should it have been taken before 1945, this interpretation would become hardly sustainable.
At present time, this is the only photo interpretable in this way in my directory.

(http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/colors/1945-50-oldtypes/tem-il2-45r.jpg)

Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: New page on Il-2M3
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on December 27, 2013, 08:12:24 AM
Hi,
here is another drawing
(http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/il-2/il2-camo/il-2m3/il2m3-bp-fl-al-3view-110arrow-p.jpg)
from this photo
(http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/il-2/il2-camo/il-2m3/110arrow-809shap264shad-mid1944.jpg)
Image via A. Ruchkovsky.
Plane 110 with arrow of 809th ShAP of 264th ShAD in mid 1944. The pilot photographed is Moskovkin, but it isn't clear if this was the plane he flew.
The plane is interesting both because of the arrow and of the unusual number (note that the digits 1 are different). Unfortunately the view is only partial. The plane was hypothetically identified as an 'arrow' built in z.18 because of its long mast and confused camouflage.

Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: New page on Il-2M3
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on September 02, 2014, 09:55:06 PM
Hi,
two new drawings of Il-2 of 1944 of 704 ShAP.
(http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/il-2/il2-camo/il-2m3/il2m3-stoyanka34.jpg)
This plane is part of a line in Stoyanka airfield.
(http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/il-2/il2-camo/il-2m3/il2m3-zenin1.jpg)
This is from a photo of pilot A.I. Zenin.
Both photos are from Vitaliy Timoshenko.
Unfortunately I was recommanded not to show them, sorry.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: New page on Il-2M3
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on November 03, 2014, 06:11:06 PM
Hi all,
there is a beautiful photo of Il-2 on this forum:

http://forums-su.com/viewtopic.php?f=194&t=583322 (http://forums-su.com/viewtopic.php?f=194&t=583322)

Looks a Il-2 with wooden arrow wing; the wooden wings and the relatively small stars suggest a plane built in Z.30 in the winter/spring 1944.
The wings are badly damaged.
Do you agree it is an arrow winged plane? The discontinuity in angulation of what remains of the rear edge of the wing seems an indication for this.
The markings on the tail are particularly beautiful. Any idea of the unit bearing them?
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: New page on Il-2M3
Post by: learstang on November 03, 2014, 06:58:15 PM
Interesting photograph, Massimo. The two small square panels on top of the wing look like the gun/ammo hatches for a metal-winged arrow, yet the wing is broken like it's wooden.

Regards,

Jason


Title: Re: New page on Il-2M3
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on November 04, 2014, 06:04:04 AM
Hi Jason,
yes, seems you're right. I don't know if it depends on the factory (maybe Zavod 1, producing wood-winged planes, had a different standard) or if the new panelling replaced the old one before switching to metal wings in spring 1944.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: New page on Il-2M3
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on November 06, 2014, 03:46:58 PM
Hi,
I was suggested by Alex Ruchkovsky that this plane could be likely a straight wing Il2-37. The wing is broken and distorted, but the flap hinge line looks aligned with the aileron, that is typical of straight winged ones, and the splitted hatches seem resembling to those seen on photos of wrecks of this type.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: New page on Il-2M3
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on November 07, 2014, 01:50:05 PM
Hi, as Alex has suggested, a further exam of the photo has shown the rocket rails rear ends, that were not on Il2-37.
I had a closer look to the metal plate whose disconinuity suggested an arrow wing, but I see that the sheet is deformed and separed from the wing fillet; if one traces a line from the wooden part to the fillet, he can see that the wing is straight.
The relatively small stars are in the style of Z 30, Z.1 had larger stars on the tail, and those on the fuselage were closer to the tail leaving no space
for numbers.
It remains the mistery of the unexpected look of hatches.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: New page on Il-2M3
Post by: learstang on November 07, 2014, 05:44:58 PM
In a way, that's good that it's not an Il-2-37, as that means the drawings don't have to be modified, at least for my book.

Regards,

Jason