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Pre-GPW Aviation => Planes of the WW1 and of the Civil War => Topic started by: Pascal on July 02, 2013, 12:21:05 AM



Title: Georgy Stepanovich Sapozhnikov's Sopwith Snipe
Post by: Pascal on July 02, 2013, 12:21:05 AM
Hi!

A friend of mine is about to build a 1/32 Sopwith Snipe from Wingnut Wings. He has chosen to represent the Sapozhnikov's plane, and he would like to know the colours of the markings on the plane. Sometimes stars are red and sometimes they are black... The colour of the rudder is questionable too: blue or beige?

(http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/266659snipe.jpg) (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=266659snipe.jpg)

If you have any information about this plane, I will thank you for my friend!

Pascal


Title: Re: Georgy Stepanovich Sapozhnikov's Sopwith Snipe
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on July 02, 2013, 02:53:53 PM
Hi,
it is represented as beige in a profile on a profile on Red Stars 3 of Geust and Petrov.
However, beige should be the color of unpainted linen, and it is likely that the fabric was painted with national colors when the plane was in British service, so it could well have been repainted.
The light stripes can't be due to mere illumination.
I guess that the rudder was painted light blue with white stripes, or anything that fits the image.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: Georgy Stepanovich Sapozhnikov's Sopwith Snipe
Post by: KL on July 02, 2013, 08:49:25 PM
In 1920 when this plane was captured, stars were red.  Few black stars appeared earlier, in 1918.  According to V. Kondratiev, arrow was black - it was the marking of 1st Squadron.
Following is from scalemodels.ru forum http://scalemodels.ru/modules/forum/viewtopic_t_23822_start_540.html
Rudder was beige (dopped fabric):

(http://s3.postimg.org/k8twsdsjn/sapojn6.jpg)

(http://s2.postimg.org/v1epvcf7t/Sopwith_7_F1_Snipe_1.jpg)

(http://s2.postimg.org/x4p530f0p/Sopwith_7_F1_Snipe_2.jpg)

Regards,
KL


Title: Re: Georgy Stepanovich Sapozhnikov's Sopwith Snipe
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on July 02, 2013, 09:24:16 PM
Hi,
Quote
Rudder was beige (dopped fabric):
is this information sure, or an interpretation of the profile? It is impossible to remove paint from fabric, so they should have remade the skinning new to delete the original British colors.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: Georgy Stepanovich Sapozhnikov's Sopwith Snipe
Post by: KL on July 02, 2013, 10:16:41 PM
Quote
Rudder was beige (dopped fabric):
is this information sure, or an interpretation of the profile? It is impossible to remove paint from fabric, so they should have remade the skinning new to delete the original British colors.

Profiles and decals were result of forum discussion. If you read decal instruction, colour of stars and arrows has remained open (black and red decal options).  Rudder colour wasn't even discussed, blue rudder hasn't been mentioned.

IMHO rudder was re-skinned, ribs were taped and it was left unpainted.

regards,
KL


Title: Re: Georgy Stepanovich Sapozhnikov's Sopwith Snipe
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on July 02, 2013, 10:24:09 PM
Quote
IMHO rudder was re-skinned, ribs were taped and it was left unpainted.
Could be, but to replace an intact skinning is much more expensive than repainting it.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: Georgy Stepanovich Sapozhnikov's Sopwith Snipe
Post by: Pascal on July 03, 2013, 09:25:25 AM
Quote
Could be, but to replace an intact skinning is much more expensive than repainting it.

Maybe the original one was damaged?

Many thanks to you, Massimo and Konstantin!

Pascal


Title: Re: Georgy Stepanovich Sapozhnikov's Sopwith Snipe
Post by: Troy Smith on July 07, 2013, 04:26:52 AM
Quote
IMHO rudder was re-skinned, ribs were taped and it was left unpainted.
Could be, but to replace an intact skinning is much more expensive than repainting it.
Regards
Massimo
HI Massimo

Yes, but it is a critial control surface.   
An example, in the 1930's the RAF had problem with their Hawker Fury's, which had painted control surfaces, and as they were kept immaculate in time the paint  being continually touched up, which led to problems, maybe even crashes..[this is from memory, must check from where later ] leading to the RAF bringing in regulations saying not to paint on control surfuces, except whe a complete repaint was done, and I presue contorl surfaces could be checked for their balance.  And with very few exceptions, this was adhered to since then. [only one coming to mind, Hurricanes in France in late 1939 with French style rudder stripes]

I digress, my point is a badly painted over rudder could cause control problems, and I don't think you can easily strip dope off fabric, so a recovered or replaced rudder is only option.

Or simply a recovering because of damage....

Never seen this about Sopwith Snipes before...very interesting.

Cheers
T


Title: Re: Georgy Stepanovich Sapozhnikov's Sopwith Snipe
Post by: KL on July 07, 2013, 06:58:57 AM
Never seen this about Sopwith Snipes before...very interesting.

True, this plane is an interesting case, definitively worth modelling.  It's almost unique because there is at least half a dozen photos of it in recent literature.  Some of the published photos are decent size and very good quality. Still, they are quite inconclusive for colour interpretation - so one has to follow what is generally accepted; that the plane remained in standard British colours (except its rudder).

KL