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Sovietwarplanes

Modeling Soviet Warplanes => Colors, schemes, & research => Topic started by: learstang on August 29, 2013, 05:55:29 PM



Title: AKAN AMT-7 Blue
Post by: learstang on August 29, 2013, 05:55:29 PM
Well I finally bought me some AKAN acrylic lacquers (from Linden Hill) and used the AMT-7 Blue on a Shturmovik I'm finishing (Dakoplast/Eastern Express single-seater).  Hmmmm, is all I can say.  Very dark, too dark.  It looks more like PRU Blue to me than any Light Blue or Sky Blue I'd expect to see on a GPW VVS aeroplane.  In the pictures below I compare it with an Il-2 (Toko arrow) I've done in Testors Model Master Russian Topside Blue.  It may be that the AKAN colour is closer to the original, but I'm going to stick with the MM paint.  I know I could lighten up the AKAN paint with white, but I don't like mixing colours.  I like using paints straight from the bottle.  It takes me long enough as it is to finish my models without having to worry about mixing custom colours each time I paint one.  As it is now, I intend on overpainting the AKAN colour with the MM paint.  Any comments (about the colours, not the mediocrity of the builds)?

Regards,

Jason

(http://i768.photobucket.com/albums/xx323/Learstang/AKANAMT-7b_zps8e3eda26.jpg) (http://s768.photobucket.com/user/Learstang/media/AKANAMT-7b_zps8e3eda26.jpg.html)

(http://i768.photobucket.com/albums/xx323/Learstang/MMRussianTopsideBlue2_zpsa6276d20.jpg) (http://s768.photobucket.com/user/Learstang/media/MMRussianTopsideBlue2_zpsa6276d20.jpg.html)

(http://i768.photobucket.com/albums/xx323/Learstang/Comparison2_zpsaaf617b4.jpg) (http://s768.photobucket.com/user/Learstang/media/Comparison2_zpsaaf617b4.jpg.html)


Title: Re: AKAN AMT-7 Blue
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on August 29, 2013, 07:22:23 PM
Hi Jason,
you could add white, or light blue, directly in the bottle of the AKAN blue.
I like acrylics because they are easy to blend directly in the can, Humbrol don't allow to do this well so the mix can change its shade according on how long it is mixed.
If you have to repaint the undersurfaces, it could be better to file the outer flaps rear edge, it looks to have a strange ondulation.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: AKAN AMT-7 Blue
Post by: learstang on August 29, 2013, 07:41:17 PM
I noticed that about the flap.  I'll sand it down before I repaint.  I suspect it happened because of using too much glue on the trailing edges of the wing.

Regards,

Jason


Title: Re: AKAN AMT-7 Blue
Post by: 66misos on August 30, 2013, 11:26:38 AM
Hi Jason,
here is AKAN Acrylics AMT-7 Blue test paint (on Avenger) during sunny summer day:
(http://i1063.photobucket.com/albums/t518/66misos/P-39_Sukhov/20130608_081957-1_zpsbbbfa946.jpg)

That AKAN paint is not so dark in comparison with blue sky.

     66misos


Title: Re: AKAN AMT-7 Blue
Post by: Apex1701 on August 30, 2013, 04:33:19 PM
Hi Learstang,

nice work on the Il-2.
As for Akan AMT-76 being too dark get a look at the Yak-3 underside form Mus?e de l'air in France.
http://sovietwarplanes.com/board/index.php?topic=1151.45
You'll see in Reply # 56 that for my eyes, the blue is quite dark, nearer the AKAN than MM paint.

All the best

Jean


Title: Re: AKAN AMT-7 Blue
Post by: learstang on August 30, 2013, 06:06:06 PM
Hi Learstang,

nice work on the Il-2.
As for Akan AMT-76 being too dark get a look at the Yak-3 underside form Mus?e de l'air in France.
http://sovietwarplanes.com/board/index.php?topic=1151.45
You'll see in Reply # 56 that for my eyes, the blue is quite dark, nearer the AKAN than MM paint.

All the best

Jean

Jean, thank you!  I agree that the wing colour on the French Yak-3 is closer to the AKAN paint, but notice that the paint on the fuselage of the French Yak-3 is lighter than that on the wing.  It may be closer to the MM paint I'm using.  At any rate, I've already repainted my single-seater Il-2 in the MM paint.  Accurate or not, I like it a lot better with this paint.  I suppose sometimes it just comes down to what you like.

Regards,

Jason


Title: Re: AKAN AMT-7 Blue
Post by: learstang on August 30, 2013, 06:11:50 PM
66misos, I agree that against a sunlit sky, it doesn't look nearly as dark.  However, the colour still doesn't look "right" to me.  The AKAN AMT-7 may be accurate - I don't know, as the small sample of original AMT-7 I have is probably much faded.  However, it's not just the dark tone of the AKAN paint; it appears to have too much green to me.  Anyhow, as I explained to Jean, it's an academic point now as I've already repainted my single-seater Il-2 with the MM Russian Topside Blue.  Accurate or not, it just looks better to me.

Regards,

Jason


Title: Re: AKAN AMT-7 Blue
Post by: KL on August 30, 2013, 07:55:42 PM
Hi Jason,
IMHO, A. Akanihin has a problem with quality control and consistency ...  :-\

From photos you posted, MM Russian Topside Blue is still too light to represent AMT-7.

(http://www.pyperpote.tonsite.biz/listinmae/images/stories/ListinMAE/appareils/yak/yak3/IMG_9292.jpg)
(http://i768.photobucket.com/albums/xx323/Learstang/Comparison2_zpsaaf617b4.jpg)
(http://www.pyperpote.tonsite.biz/listinmae/images/stories/ListinMAE/appareils/yak/yak3/IMG_9285.jpg)


Fuselage and wings of Mus?e de l'air Yak-3 are the same colour. Posted photos are not perfect: fuselage was closer to flash and looks brighter than it is. Wings are obliquely lit, partially in shade so the photo is not very representative.  But you can get an idea - AMT-7 was quite intense blue.

On your photo, light blue on the left side would be appropriate for prewar AII Light Blue. Problem with AKAN AMT-7 chip that I have is small amount of gray.  Real AMT-7 was pure blue.

HTH,
KL


Title: Re: AKAN AMT-7 Blue
Post by: learstang on August 30, 2013, 08:52:01 PM
Konstantin, the colour I'm using probably is too light, but it's the closest out-of-bottle match I've found in flat enamels, so far.  I realise that by just sticking with Testors Model Master flat enamels I'm limiting myself.  I suppose if I could overcome my distaste for acrylics or more exotic (non-U.S.) enamels I could find a better match.  By the way, the AKAN acrylic lacquer AMT-7 worked quite well with my airbrush (a Badger 150).  Not only did it spray well, with good coverage, and a short drying time, using just a bit of the AKAN thinner, but I was able to clean up the airbrush afterwards quite easily and then use my flat enamel without any problems.  Not like normal acrylics where I have to disassemble the entire airbrush after each use then soak it all in a special acrylic dried paint dissolver.

Regards,

Jason


Title: Re: AKAN AMT-7 Blue
Post by: Seawinder on August 31, 2013, 03:14:50 AM
Hi Jason.
I posted a photo of the AKAN AMT-7 on one of my Yaks some months ago...

http://sovietwarplanes.com/board/index.php?topic=1532.15

As I take another look at the completed model, I don't think it looks too dark. It's certainly darker than the Model Master Topside Blue, but I've come to the conclusion that that paint's even a bit too light for AII Blue, which I think is lighter than AMT-7. Perhaps it's a matter of what we become used to seeing. Anyway, I'm glad you (like I) found the acrylic lacquer nice to work with. I will say that it's a bit more fragile than any Model Master enamel, but certainly tougher than a lot of aqueous acrylics.

Cheers,
Pip


Title: Re: AKAN AMT-7 Blue
Post by: learstang on August 31, 2013, 04:25:52 AM
Pip, your AKAN AMT-7 looks to be lighter than mine.  Mine, although a lovely colour, was just too dark.  I agree that Testors Model Master Russian Topside Blue is probably too light for AMT-7, but until I can find something I think is better, it will have to do.  AKAN AMT-7 is just not the answer, not for me.  Again, I realise I can lighten it, but that goes against my no-mixing "philosophy".

Regards,

Jason


Title: Re: AKAN AMT-7 Blue
Post by: Seawinder on August 31, 2013, 06:10:24 PM
Hi Jason.
What you say about the difference between your batch and mine seems to fit in with Konstantin's remark about AKAN's quality control. It that's true, it's really too bad since there seem to be more and more modelers who are relying on the AKAN paints for accurate VVS colors. Of course, the only real way to compare your and my paints would be for us to get together in person sometime with our models!

Cheers.


Title: Re: AKAN AMT-7 Blue
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on August 31, 2013, 07:06:47 PM
Or to take a photo of the painted model aside a known chip as a FS catalogue open on the page of FS-25190. You are relying too much on color photos and their accuracy  for this comparison.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: AKAN AMT-7 Blue
Post by: Seawinder on August 31, 2013, 09:34:09 PM
Or to take a photo of the painted model aside a known chip as a FS catalogue open on the page of FS-25190. You are relying too much on color photos and their accuracy  for this comparison.
Regards
Massimo

Yes, that's what I thought I was saying. Anyhow, your idea about the FS 25190 comparison is a good one, so here it is:

(http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj243/pnmoss/AkanAMT-7_zpsa59bf610.jpg)

As you can see, my sample has a bit more green in it, bringing it actually closer to 25193, but it's no darker than 25190.

Cheers,
Pip


Title: Re: AKAN AMT-7 Blue
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on August 31, 2013, 10:13:54 PM
Clear image indeed.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: AKAN AMT-7 Blue
Post by: learstang on August 31, 2013, 11:21:09 PM
Off-topic, but I suppose I can do that since this is my topic, that 25189 looks like PRU Blue.  Anyone else think so?  And Pip, thank you for posting that photograph.  Do you have the FS Standards book - I'd love to buy one, but the ones I've seen are rather pricey (over $100USD).

Regards,

Jason


Title: Re: AKAN AMT-7 Blue
Post by: Seawinder on September 01, 2013, 12:09:51 AM
Off-topic, but I suppose I can do that since this is my topic, that 25189 looks like PRU Blue.  Anyone else think so?  And Pip, thank you for posting that photograph.  Do you have the FS Standards book - I'd love to buy one, but the ones I've seen are rather pricey (over $100USD).

Regards,

Jason

Hi Jason.
Indeed, 35189 is often given as an FS approximation for PRU Blue. I've got the small chip versions of both FS595A and B. As I recall, 595B was in the $60 when I bought it. I think it's a worthwhile investment, but I don't plan to buy 595C -- figure what I've got will do.

Pip


Title: Re: AKAN AMT-7 Blue
Post by: learstang on September 01, 2013, 12:27:10 AM
Off-topic, but I suppose I can do that since this is my topic, that 25189 looks like PRU Blue.  Anyone else think so?  And Pip, thank you for posting that photograph.  Do you have the FS Standards book - I'd love to buy one, but the ones I've seen are rather pricey (over $100USD).

Regards,

Jason

Hi Jason.
Indeed, 35189 is often given as an FS approximation for PRU Blue. I've got the small chip versions of both FS595A and B. As I recall, 595B was in the $60 when I bought it. I think it's a worthwhile investment, but I don't plan to buy 595C -- figure what I've got will do.

Pip

Thank you, Pip!  I think I could come up with $60 for such a useful book, if I can find it at that price.  I've certainly bought more expensive ones.  And thank you for confirming what I thought about 25189.  Now, as I recall, that first number - the 2 or 3 refers to the specularity - matte or glossy, is that correct, with 2 being matte and 3 being glossy, or some such?

Regards,

Jason


Title: Re: AKAN AMT-7 Blue
Post by: Seawinder on September 01, 2013, 04:07:55 AM

Thank you, Pip!  I think I could come up with $60 for such a useful book, if I can find it at that price.  I've certainly bought more expensive ones.  And thank you for confirming what I thought about 25189.  Now, as I recall, that first number - the 2 or 3 refers to the specularity - matte or glossy, is that correct, with 2 being matte and 3 being glossy, or some such?

Regards,
Jason

Hi Jason.
1XXXX is gloss, 2XXXX is semigloss, 3XXXX is matte.

Cheers


Title: Re: AKAN AMT-7 Blue
Post by: learstang on September 01, 2013, 05:33:41 AM

Thank you, Pip!  I think I could come up with $60 for such a useful book, if I can find it at that price.  I've certainly bought more expensive ones.  And thank you for confirming what I thought about 25189.  Now, as I recall, that first number - the 2 or 3 refers to the specularity - matte or glossy, is that correct, with 2 being matte and 3 being glossy, or some such?

Regards,
Jason

Hi Jason.
1XXXX is gloss, 2XXXX is semigloss, 3XXXX is matte.

Cheers

Thank you, Pip!  I knew it was something like that.

Regards,

Jason