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Print Page - U-2 ID and cockpit colours.

Sovietwarplanes

Pre-GPW Aviation => Reconaissance, trainers and light bombers, single-engined, of '20s and '30s => Topic started by: Javier Planells on May 18, 2014, 12:19:20 AM



Title: U-2 ID and cockpit colours.
Post by: Javier Planells on May 18, 2014, 12:19:20 AM
Hi guys,

I got South Front's huge decal sheet on the Kukuruznik and wanted to build one of the Agitation & Propaganda Squadron U-2s. It's CCCP-N740 "Pionerskaya Pravda". It's displayed as Satin Dark Khaki-lacquer 3B over Satin Light Blue/Grey (sic). It's an early two seater, so instructions tell you that "early releases were clear varnished, leaving the natural colours of materials".

Is this matter of colours correct for the time frame, 1933?

Another thing that got me troubled is that SF displays N740 as a two seater, and Maslov's book on the U-2 says it was a three seater with upper wing fuel tank and a gaudier scheme.

(http://www.aviapress.com/book/vma/vma012.jpg)

What can I do? Who should I trust? ???

Have a great weekend!


Title: Re: U-2 ID and cockpit colours.
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on May 19, 2014, 08:27:31 AM
Hi Javier,
I would look for a photo to decide; in absence of this, Maslov looks more reliable also because describes unusual characteristics.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: U-2 ID and cockpit colours.
Post by: Javier Planells on May 20, 2014, 04:34:55 AM
Thanks, Massimo :D

Well, that's the thing. There's not a single photograph on that plane, anywhere. Not even in Maslov's own book. The only "Pionerskaya Pravda" I found online is the Yakovlev AIR-3.

(http://www.xaraxtreme.ru/big/item_1729.jpg)

I'm thinking about a different scheme, now. Not with the nice slogan, but it'll do since it's been so long since I last built a model kit. Thanks SF for the 75 options ::)


Title: Re: U-2 ID and cockpit colours.
Post by: KL on May 20, 2014, 09:16:53 PM
Photos exists at http://deruluft.livejournal.com/2687.html?thread=318335:

(http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/deruluft/8685093/2706/2706_600.jpg)

(http://aviaforum.ru/attachment.php?s=48b9581c62b77fbd6dd53961cbb12005&attachmentid=209873&stc=1&d=1290401451)

It was probably painted similar to the other U-2s of the "Maxim Gorky" propaganda squadron.
(http://s005.radikal.ru/i211/1011/ec/e09a46ecc570.jpg)

(http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/deruluft/8685093/1286/1286_900.jpg)

Komsomol Pravda
(http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/deruluft/8685093/2257/2257_600.jpg)

Selkor
(http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/deruluft/8685093/1618/1618_600.jpg)





Title: Re: U-2 ID and cockpit colours.
Post by: Javier Planells on May 20, 2014, 10:16:01 PM
Thank you, KL!!!

Now that you confirmed my fears I'm choosing a different option, so I won't have to modify the fuselage or purchase the - for my short-breathed wallet - expensive AB models kit. And it is still a flashy one, CCCP-C134, one of Maslov's photo and profiles (incorrectly labeled as C124 in the profile) and in South Front decal sheet. It's right above N740, that started this thread.

(http://begemotdecals.ru/files/instr1.jpg)

Thank you Massimo and KL for helping with this topic!


Title: Re: U-2 ID and cockpit colours.
Post by: Javier Planells on May 20, 2014, 11:10:19 PM
Actually, looking at the Maslov profile and the pictures of N740, there's something weird. Cabane struts are of the normal type for any two seater, instead of the  inverted V and separate rear struts usually found in the SV three-seater, cabin and sanitary types. Also, the center wing cutout is present, without the upper wing fuel tank clearly visible on the other three and two-seaters. Elevator horns outside the fron cabin don't match the three-seater configuration as well.

Could it actually be a two-seater and Maslov's profile be incorrect?

"Pionerskaya Pravda"

(http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/deruluft/8685093/2706/2706_600.jpg)

U-2SV

(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/07/11/article-2360652-1AC310F2000005DC-429_634x393.jpg)

Hummm, I'm afraid some extra help form you gentlemen would come in handy ;D


Title: Re: U-2 ID and cockpit colours.
Post by: KL on May 21, 2014, 12:00:28 AM
it was a two-seater:

(http://s49.radikal.ru/i124/1011/17/750488e9960a.jpg)

There is a profile of the same plane in Ivanov's book.  it is a two-seater, its fuselage number is N-840 and its colours don't have anything in common with the profile in Maslov's book.  in the text Ivanov mentions that there were two "Pionirskaya Pravda" planes N-363 and N-400.
Wikipedia mentions only N-840.  N-363 had a different name - "Sovhoznaya Gazeta".

Confusing...  profile in Maslov's book is probably wrong....


Title: Re: U-2 ID and cockpit colours.
Post by: Javier Planells on May 21, 2014, 12:08:06 AM
Thanks KL.

As far as I recall, in SF decal sheet N840 is red nosed with a silver fuselage and red cheating lines, and N740 is green over blue, as stated at the beginning of the thread.

This subject about agitation machines is passionating.


Title: Re: U-2 ID and cockpit colours.
Post by: Javier Planells on May 21, 2014, 12:23:47 AM
Oooops, I forgot to upload SF's instructions about N840. Upper left corner of the sheet.  ;D

(http://begemotdecals.ru/files/instr3.jpg)


Title: Re: U-2 ID and cockpit colours.
Post by: KL on May 21, 2014, 07:15:38 PM
Whoever made the instruction, mixed up the planes.  The instruction says that "Komsomolskaya Pravda" had registration N840.  "Komsomolskaya Pravda" was actually  registered as SSSR-N330.

(http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/deruluft/8685093/2257/2257_600.jpg)

 


Title: Re: U-2 ID and cockpit colours.
Post by: Javier Planells on May 22, 2014, 06:45:15 AM
Understandable... So many "Pravdas" flying around ;D

Thanks for your help, KL.


Title: Re: U-2 ID and cockpit colours.
Post by: hunter019 on June 18, 2014, 02:04:22 PM
Understandable... So many "Pravdas" flying around ;D

Thanks for your help, KL.
Peace to this house.
Welcome all the participants of this forum, the forum veterans.
In Russia there are many truths :)
The first three U-2 agiteskadrile since the USSR-SH330 (Ш330). On 05/03/1933 USSR-N330 "Komsomolskaya Pravda". Deducted 22.10.1935 (RS-6)
I am glad that my company used SF reconstruction stains early U-2. http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/hunter019/ Basis drawing made ​​Yuri Tepsurkayev and coloring - me :)
For those interested can share electronic versions of books on this machine before and after Shvi.
If possible I will share their knowledge in terms of design cars before the war and after it.
Pleased to meet you.
Alexey


Title: Re: U-2 ID and cockpit colours.
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on June 18, 2014, 02:24:22 PM
Hi Alexey,
welcome to this forum.
I just had a look at your page and I highly appreciate your profiles and your coloring technique.
I am very interested to share books about U-2 and other planes.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: U-2 ID and cockpit colours.
Post by: hunter019 on June 18, 2014, 03:25:18 PM
Once again, all welcome!
U-2 ""Kolkhoznaya gazeta/Kolhoznaya newspaper" - a label applied over existing concrete for propaganda trip. This can be seen in the photo. CCCP-N8 ...


Title: Re: U-2 ID and cockpit colours.
Post by: KL on June 18, 2014, 09:11:27 PM
Hi Alexey,
Welcome aboard!  You may write your posts in Russian and someone here will translate them  :)

I am also interested in U-2 books you mentioned - can you post a list of U-2 books you have in electronic format?

Cheers,
Konstantin


Title: Re: U-2 ID and cockpit colours.
Post by: hunter019 on June 19, 2014, 08:59:41 AM
Hi Alexey,
Welcome aboard!  You may write your posts in Russian and someone here will translate them  :)
I am also interested in U-2 books you mentioned - can you post a list of U-2 books you have in electronic format?
 
Мир дому сему!
Техническое описание самолета У-2 с мотором М-11. Завод N23. 1937г.
Самолет У-2. Н.М.Лебедев. Воениздат.1937г.
Сканы страниц книги по У-2 до 1937г.
Самолет У-2. Учебник для летных школ. Воениздат.1939г.
Техническое описание самолета У-2 с мотором М-11. Государственное научно-техническое издательство машиностроительной литературы. 1941г.
Самолет У-2. Учебник для летных школ. Редакционно-издательский отдел Аэрофлота. 1941г.
Методические указания по выполнению упражнений Курса летной подготовки военных авиационных школ первоначальной подготовки ВВС РККА. Часть мервая. Самолет У-2. Воениздат НКО СССР. 1941
Самолет По-2. В.А.Иванов, М.В.Липатов. Редакционно-издательский отдел Аэрофлота. 1946г.
Самолет По-2. Оборонгиз. 1946г.
Ремонт самолета По-2. Технические условия на дефектацию и ремонт. В.К.Краковяк. Редакционно-издательский отдел Аэрофлота. 1947г.
Взлетные характеристики самолетов Ил-12, С-47, Ли-2, По-2. Редакционно-издательский отдел Аэрофлота. 1948г.
Самолет По-2 и его модификации. М.В.Липатов. Редиздат Аэрофлота. 1951г.
Самолет Поликарпов-2. Издательство ДОСААФ.1952г.
Руководство по летной эксплуатации самолетов По-2С, По-2Л и По-2А. Редакционно-издательский отдел Аэрофлота. 1952г.
Авиационный мотор М-11. Воениздат.1941г.
Поликарпов У-2. ?Небесный тихоход?. М.Маслов. Цейхгауз. 2011г.

Samolot Po-2 konstrukcja i technika pilotazu. Polska. Wojskowy instytut naukowo-wydawniczy. 1946r.

К сожалению, я не знаю, как на этом форуме вставлять фотографии и писать ответы в ветку без цитирования :(
Unfortunately, I do not know how this forum insert photos and write answers to the branch without citing :(




Title: Re: U-2 ID and cockpit colours.
Post by: KL on June 19, 2014, 06:39:32 PM
Hi Alexey,
Thanks for the list, excellent material  :)  I'll check what I have, there could be few U-2/Po-2 publications that I don't see on your list...

To start "ответы без цитирования" just click "REPLY" button.

To insert picture:
1.  click second button (http://sovietwarplanes.com/board/Themes/default/images/bbc/img.gif)
2.  insert direct link to your image (ссылку jpg-а) between ][



it will read something like ['img'] http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/9826/33977769.0/0_7bc66_d1cb9bb3_orig.jpg [/img] or without spaces:

(http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/9826/33977769.0/0_7bc66_d1cb9bb3_orig.jpg)


Title: Re: U-2 ID and cockpit colours.
Post by: hunter019 on June 19, 2014, 08:23:43 PM
Bring to your attention the electronic copies of books online Krakow Aviation Museum. Scans books out there in the expansion .jpeg. They can download the program-downloaders sites.
http://www.muzeumlotnictwa.pl/digitalizacja_archiwaliow/digitalizacja.php
Dear, maybe have someone correct drawings on Bloch MB-210?


Title: Re: U-2 ID and cockpit colours.
Post by: hunter019 on June 20, 2014, 08:06:27 PM
Мир дому сему.
Уважаемый KL, скажите, а как вставить картинку из своего компьютера, а не из интернета? Я так и не понял этого :(


Title: Re: U-2 ID and cockpit colours.
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on June 20, 2014, 08:49:43 PM
Hi Alexey
could you at least include an automatic translation in English, please? Maybe it is not too good but it is understandable.
не могли бы вы по крайней мере включают автоматический перевод на английском языке, пожалуйста? Может быть, это не слишком хорошо, но это и понятно.

Quote
Peace to this house.
Dear KL, tell me, how to insert a picture from your computer instead of from the Internet? I did not understand this

Please forgive me if I answer to a question to Konstantin.
Unfortunately it is impossible to insert a picture directly from your computer. All pictures have to be hosted somewhere and then linked.
Пожалуйста, простите меня, если я отвечаю на вопрос Константину.
К сожалению, невозможно вставить картинку прямо с вашего компьютера. Все фотографии должны быть размещены где-то, а затем связаны между собой.

Best regards
Massimo
С уважением
Массимо


Title: Re: U-2 ID and cockpit colours.
Post by: KL on June 20, 2014, 11:58:41 PM
Мир дому сему.
Уважаемый KL, скажите, а как вставить картинку из своего компьютера, а не из интернета? Я так и не понял этого :(

Уважаемый Aleksey, первый шаг - Вы должны загрузить картинку на Яндекс-fotki или Photobucket...,  затем использовать ссылку на загруженную картинку.


Title: Re: U-2 ID and cockpit colours.
Post by: hunter019 on June 21, 2014, 07:33:27 PM
Peace to this house.
Dear Massimo, thanks for the tip. I will use electronic translators.
Thank you, Constantine.
(http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/6728/33977769.0/0_7e20c_1ce6e06_XL)
In the nose of the aircraft visible plate covering the main inscription. the keel is an inscription made ​​specifically for this flight.


Title: Re: U-2 ID and cockpit colours.
Post by: KL on June 21, 2014, 10:59:22 PM
Hi Alexey,
This improvisation with U-2 and the fake "Krestyanskaya Gazeta" name might be related to the fact that the real "Krestyanskaya Gazeta" was an another plane: ANT-9

(http://s41.radikal.ru/i091/0901/34/c6599e35108e.jpg)

(http://s42.radikal.ru/i098/0901/c8/0316e8e8dd42.jpg)

СССР-Л131 АНТ-9 Эксплуатантом являлся Аэрофлот. Зарегистрирован 31 июля 1932 года. В июне 1933 года замечен в приказах ГВФ. В 1933 году передан в Особую сводную авиаэскадрилью им. Максим Горького. 17 августа 1933 года зарегистрирован как СССР-N131. Имел имя собственное "Крестьянская газета". Применялся для агитационных целей.

from:  http://aviahistory.ucoz.ru/index/0-196

There are references to an ANT-9 "Krestyanskaya Pravda" -  did this plane exist? 


Title: Re: U-2 ID and cockpit colours.
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on June 22, 2014, 07:47:12 AM
Hi Konstantin,
could you include a translation of the Russian texts, please?
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: U-2 ID and cockpit colours.
Post by: hunter019 on June 22, 2014, 07:55:45 PM
Peace to this house
СССР-Л131 АНТ-9 . Aeroflot was the operator. Joined July 31, 1932. In June 1933 Seen in orders GVF. In 1933 transferred to the special squadron consolidated them. Maxim Gorky. August 17, 1933 registered as a Soviet-N131. Had a proper name "Peasant newspaper." Used for propaganda purposes.

Books that I have in electronic form:
Technical description of the U-2 with M-11. Plant N23. 1937.
U-2. N.M.Lebedev. Voenizdat.1937g.
Scans pages of a book on the U-2 to 1937.
U-2. Textbook for flight schools. Voenizdat.1939g.
Technical description of the U-2 with M-11. State Scientific and Technical Publishing engineering literature. 1941.
U-2. Textbook for flight schools. Publishing department of Aeroflot. 1941.
Methodical instructions on using exercises Course military aviation flight training schools initial training of Air Force. Part of Merv. U-2. Voenizdat NKO. 1941
Po-2 aircraft. VAIvanov, M.V.Lipatov. Publishing department of Aeroflot. 1946.
Po-2 aircraft. Oborongiz. 1946.
Repair Po-2. Technical specifications for fault detection and repair. V.K.Krakovyak. Publishing department of Aeroflot. 1947.
Takeoff Performance of IL-12, C-47, Li-2, Po-2. Publishing department of Aeroflot. 1948.
In the plane 2 and its modifications. M.V.Lipatov. Redizdat Aeroflot. 1951.
Polikarpov-2 plane. Publisher DOSAAF.1952g.
Flight Manual Po-2C aircraft, Po-2L and Po-2A. Publishing department of Aeroflot. 1952.
Aircraft engine M-11. Voenizdat.1941g.
Polikarpov U-2. "Heavenly slug." M.Maslov. Storeroom. 2011.

Samolot Po-2 konstrukcja i technika pilotazu. Polska. Wojskowy instytut naukowo-wydawniczy. 1946r.


Title: Re: U-2 ID and cockpit colours.
Post by: hunter019 on June 22, 2014, 08:31:48 PM
Today the site of the Krakow aviation Museum downloaded yet these books:
Инструкция по техническому обслуживанию Самолета У-2 с мотором М-11. Военное издательство НКО. 1943г.
Ремонтные допуски и руководство по контролю самолета У-2. Редакционно-издательский отдел Аэрофлота. 1939г.

Атлас картеров авиадвигателей. Скубачевский Г.С. МАИ.  1938г.
Боевой устав истребительной авиации Красной Армии. 1940г.
Сборник руководящих материалов по ремонту. Редакционно-издательский отдел Аэрофлота.  1938г. (по ТБ-1 или ТБ-3)

Инструкция по уходу за дерновыми покрытиями на аэродромах ГВФ.  Редакционно-издательский отдел Аэрофлота.  1940г.
Инструкция по эксплоатации топлив и масел в ГВФ.  Редакционно-издательский отдел Аэрофлота.  1940г.
Классификация веса самолета. Редакционно-издательский отдел Аэрофлота.  1936г.
Механизация аэродромной службы. Редакционно-издательский отдел Аэрофлота. 1939г.
Указания по ремонту зимнего шасси самолета ПС-40. Редакционно-издательский отдел Аэрофлота. 1939г.
Указания по ремонту моторных рам самолета ПС40 1940. Редакционно-издательский отдел Аэрофлота. 1940г.
Хранение самолетов под открытым небом. Редакционно-издательский отдел Аэрофлота. 1940г.

Технические условия Управления Военных Воздушных Сил CССР на поставку стальной проволоки.  Издание научного комитета Управления военн.воздушн. сил СССР. 1924г.
Технические условия Управления Военных Воздушных Сил CССР . Текстильные и резиновые материалы.  Издание научного комитета Управления военн.воздушн. сил СССР. 1924г.
Технические условия Управления Военных Воздушных Сил CССР . Дерево и фанера.  Издание научного комитета Управления военн.воздушн. сил СССР. 1924г.
...

Maintenance Instructions U-2 aircraft with M-11. Military Publishing House NKOs. 1943.
Repair tolerances and control manual U-2 aircraft. Publishing department of Aeroflot. 1939.

Atlas engines crankcase. Skubachevskii G.S. MAI. 1938.
Field Manual of fighter aircraft of the Red Army. 1940.
Compilation guidance on repair. Publishing department of Aeroflot. 1938. (TB_1 or TB-3)

Care instructions turf airfields GVF. Publishing department of Aeroflot. 1940.
User exploitation of fuels and oils in GVF. Publishing department of Aeroflot. 1940.
Classification of aircraft weight. Publishing department of Aeroflot. 1936.
Mechanization airfield services. Publishing department of Aeroflot. 1939.
Repair Instructions winter landing gear PS-40. Publishing department of Aeroflot. 1939.
Repair instructions for motor frames aircraft PS40 1940. Publishing department of Aeroflot. 1940.
Keeping aircraft in the open. Publishing department of Aeroflot. 1940.

Specifications of the Office of Military Air Force USSR for the supply of steel wire. Edition of the scientific committee of the Office voenn.vozdushn. Forces of the USSR. 1924.
Specifications of the Office of Military Air Force USSR. Textile and rubber materials. Edition of the scientific committee of the Office voenn.vozdushn. Forces of the USSR. 1924.
Specifications of the Office of Military Air Force USSR. Wood and plywood. Edition of the scientific committee of the Office voenn.vozdushn. Forces of the USSR. 1924.
....
....
Instrukcja techniczna podstawowe wiadomosci z teorii silnikov lotniczych oraz budowa i uzvtkowanie silnikf M-11D. Wojskowy instytut naukowo-wydawniczy. 1948r.
Opis Silnika M-11Fr-1. Kalisz. 1956
Opis Silnika M-11Fr-1 Odrozniajacy Go Od Silnika M-11D. 1953
Instrukcja uzvtkowania silnika M-11D. Kalisz. 1956
Wykaz Czesci Zapasowych i Narzedzi do Silnika M-11Fr-1


Title: Re: U-2 ID and cockpit colours.
Post by: hunter019 on July 22, 2014, 09:28:11 AM
Peace to this house.
All the books that I have on the U-2 posted here:
https://yadi.sk/d/QOyLVqBWWxa9o
2 gig