Sovietwarplanes

Hi,
I started work on this picture today:
(http://i1063.photobucket.com/albums/t518/66misos/Yak-9/Image002_zpsf2bd3a62.jpg)
Camo pattern on the both wings of "22" does not look like standard 1943 NKAP scheme.

However, there will not be fast progress, holiday and some other duties are ahead.
Regards,
   66misos

Hi Misos, there has to be a change in color at the base of the stabilizer and on the sides of the nose. The plane was certainly repainted, probably the lighter shades are aged color.
Regards
Massimo

Hi Massimo,
I am aware of it. It is evident also on the other Yaks on that photo.

Here is photo of the same plane but from the other side:
(http://static.rcgroups.net/forums/attachments/4/0/5/1/a4775222-75-yak9-22b.jpg)
Also the right wing seems to be repainted far from standard.
Plus compare the level of grey in the tail star (bright), fuselage star (medium) and in the badges on the front fuselage (very dark, significantly different), although in all three cases it should be the same red color.

And here is another photo from the left side:
(http://www.asisbiz.com/il2/Yak-3/Yakovlev-Yak-3/images/Yak-9D-3rd-Squadron-6th-Air-GvIAP-Black-Sea-Fleet-White-22-01.jpg)  

Regards,
   66misos

Hi Misos, I see. Differently faded greys and differently faded reds, it seems. Or perhaps they were polished on the nose to gain speed.
I see that 31 has a slightly different spinner than 22, probably from an earlier batch.
Regards
Massimo

EDIT 25-Aug-2014

Hi,
a little progress today:

(http://i1063.photobucket.com/albums/t518/66misos/Yak-9/140821_jakdevet_01_zps9cf6b911.jpg)

Regards,
    66misos

Hi,
the plane no. 22 is basicaly finished, see picture above. Now the respective corrections according to your comments & suggestions and the rest planes.
Regards,
   66misos

Hi Misos,
looks good. I'm waiting to see the photo completed.
Regards
Massimo

Hi Massimo,
thanks for motivating comment :D

Here are some corrections & tuning on 22 plus added 31.
(http://i1063.photobucket.com/albums/t518/66misos/Yak-9/140825_jakdevet_02_zps6f270499.jpg)

Regards,
   66misos


PS: Massimo, could you post, please, also your work, may be also those from mig3 page in this "colorized photos gallery"? It would be nice and useful to have all color pictures on one place.

Looks good, 66misos! I look forward to the finished picture.

Regards,

Jason

Hi,
all planes finished:

(http://i1063.photobucket.com/albums/t518/66misos/Yak-9/140826_jakdevet_03_zps139031ef.jpg)

Background is the next.
Regards,
    66misos

Hi Misos, looks very good. I'm waiting to see the background.
I've put my colorized photos on the board, as you've suggested.
Regards
Massimo

Hi Massimo,
I would like to ask you for opinion before I start with background. I have read that those planes fly over Sevastopol and it seems to me that there is Black See visible on the original photo. So I took similar picture of Sevastopol area from Google Earth:
(http://i1063.photobucket.com/albums/t518/66misos/Yak-9/Sevastopol03_zps3b529679.jpg)
I know it is from the present plus there is different perspective, but it shows coast line and character of the countryside.

Regards,
    66misos


PS: I saw all those your added colorized photos. Very nice. Didn't you consider to put also type of the plane (LaGG-3, MiG-3 etc.) to the each topic headline? Could be easier when looking for refference.

Hi Misos,
this is a good image, but the colors of the colorized photos will need to be progressively faded ito light blue to take into account of the variability of the thickness of the light-diffusing air from a nearly horizontal perspective.

Regards
Massimo

Hi Massimo,
here is the first attempt for background:
(http://i1063.photobucket.com/albums/t518/66misos/Yak-9/140826_jakdevet_04_zps34428849.jpg)
I feel it still not OK, but the first step is done.
   66misos

Hi Misos,
good as first attempt. You've still to make a blue gradient on the ground to the horizon, and shadows of the clouds on the ground should appear dark blue-grey.
Regards
Massimo

Hi,
the blue gradient on the ground to the horizon added as well as a bit blue-grey hue to shadows of the clouds on the ground. Plus overall change of the color to give background a bit darker blue-grey look, more similar to the Google Earth photo.
(http://i1063.photobucket.com/albums/t518/66misos/Yak-9/140827_jakdevet_06_zpsf801b94f.jpg)
Regards,
   66misos

EDIT: 27-Aug-2014

You both should do a book of colourised VVS photographs!

Regards,

Jason

Hi Misos, very good. Now you can work on the trasparent parts, one should see somewhat of the back color, somewhat of the color that reflects and, if it is not perfectly trasparent, somewhat of the color of the glazing itself.
Hi Jason,
it's not a bad idea.
Regards
Massimo

This is fantastic stuff, I don't understand how you are doing it but it's great.

Cheers

Dennis

Hi,
thank you all for comments ;D

Massimo, I reworked cockpit of "22" and a bit improved blending two far planes with background, see picture above (Reply #15).
Hope it could be considered as finished.

Jason, such book could be quite interesting, I already had that idea. However, I am not sure about copyright of the source bw photos. Here everything is just hobby, free of charge, but the book is for business.

Regards,
   66misos

66misos, copyrights are certainly an issue with a book, but some of these photographs may be public domain if they're older than 70 years. At least that's my reading of Russian copyright law - no doubt there are others on this site (Konstantin?) who could shed more light on that.

Regards,

Jason

Hi,
there was interesting and long discussion about Copyrights on images at ARC forum http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/index.php?showtopic=132676 (http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/index.php?showtopic=132676)
Regards,
   66misos

Fantastic work!
congratulations Misos!
Xan

Yes; very nice work indeed!

Regards,

Jason

Thanks all for comments  ;D
(EDIT 16-Sep-2014)
(http://i1063.photobucket.com/albums/t518/66misos/Yak-9/140916_Yak-9D_Grib_EN02A5_zps4ed0fc30.jpg)

KL wrote at http://sovietwarplanes.com/board/index.php?topic=1864.msg15328#msg15328  (http://sovietwarplanes.com/board/index.php?topic=1864.msg15328#msg15328)

This is NKAP 1943 Template:
(http://www.mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/colors/1943-45-fighters/tem-fighters1943.jpg)

and its application:
(http://www.mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/yak3/bourgetupperview.jpg)

But Grib's no. 22 looks different in following areas:
- left wing looks similar to template, but with sharp edges, while rest of the camo has soft edges,
- right wing looks different, although it could be matter of reflections, shadows and weathered areas,
- AMT-11 area on the left fuselage between cockpit and engine does not continue to the left wing like on template, but it ends on the left wing root and whole wing root is  AMT-12, like the 3rd Yak from the bottom in the right row on the photo above and also on this photo:
(http://www.mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/yak179/Yak-9/yak9-930.jpg)

Probably "modified NKAP" is not right word, may be "not fully in line with NKAP template".
Plus thanks for "-s", I will correct it.

Best regards,
     66misos

Hi,
I posted this picture also at airforce.ru http://vif2ne.ru/nvi/forum/0/0.htm (http://vif2ne.ru/nvi/forum/0/0.htm) with interesting comments from their member "St". Here I summarized them.
- In this serie Yak-9DD had "warm" grey colors (a bit of brown need to be added),
- Which greay, AMT-11 and/or AMT-12? This codes were used only in instructions. On the stock they had ...what they had. Show me color chart and I will show, what Mr. Grib, HSS showed to me,

I sent him link to VVS paint chart at mig3 pages and additional general color chart (see bellow) with following result:
- "Выкладки" is someone's "research" but it is not rule.

- for overall camouflage use 8765D/8775D (AMT-11?):
(http://www.materials-world.com/paint-colors/duron/images/Duron-Colors-36.gif)

- for blotches use ironM.2134-30 (AMT-12?):
(http://www.trishasdesignstudio.com/benjamin-moore-color/Benjamin-Moore-Color-27.gif)

- Bottom: juicy dark blue - blue 550B-5. (AMT-7):
(http://www.materials-world.com/paint-colors/behr/behr-colorsmart/images/behr-colorsmart-28.gif)

On b/w photos such colors look bright.

Are these "warm" grey colors applicable only for Grib's Yak-9D "22"? You need to find serial numbers. 60 aircraft from the Yak-9DD serie had such coloring.
Regards,
   66misos

Hi Misos, interesting indeed, thank you for sharing.
The replacement seems to be limited to AMT-11, replaced with a brownish shade.
Regards
Massimo

Hi Misos,
forum member "St" is A. Stankov, author of "Поршневые истребители ?Як? периода 1941-1945 гг. в полках ВВС" book:

(http://mirknig.com/uploads/posts/2010-12/thumbs/1292663636_stankov-a.v.-porshnevye-istrebiteli-yak-perioda-1941-1945gg.-v-polkah-vvs.-1999.jpg)

This book and Stankov's post at VIF are somewhat controversial.  Book contains many previously unpublished photos from private collections, unique information collected from veterans and interesting information from memoirs.  But, Stankov's book and his postings at VIF also reveal that he gives priority to this kind of information over the information that can be found in official documents.  Or, that he doesn't care what is in archives and what other researchers say...  Result of this is that Stankov isn't respected by other VIF members (for a good reason!).

His book and postings are also full of biased and unfunded conclusions (like "Soviet pilots and planes were the best in the world", "VVS pilots were better trained that LW pilots" etc.).  Many profiles in his books can be considered as wrong or misinterpreted - there are dozens of planes in fictional "Green-Dark Green" camouflage scheme, dozens of planes in one tone colouring that were supposedly operative during GPW (one tone colouring was typical for prewar and postwar periods only!) etc.  IMHO, Pilawskii heavily relied on Stankov's book!

Regardless, Stankov is an expert and should be praised for information he had collected from the veterans.  One should know where are the limits of this type of information.


IMHO (or according to my monitor), all 3 colours are within the standards...

HTH,
KL

Hi Misos,


When I compare NKAP template and the photo - I see similarities and I conclude that the plane has been camouflaged in compliance with NKAP scheme.

When you compare NKAP template and the photo - you see differences.  You are looking for deviations from NKAP scheme...


-edges of camouflage fields (sharp or soft) were not defined in 1943 NKAP scheme.  On sketches they look sharp, but in factories planes were sprayed.  Also, consider that the wings may have been painted before the final assembly.
-left wing root is poorly visible on the photo - AMT-11 area may actually look like the one on NKAP template (depends how you see the photo)

Anyway, I don't see any need for comments on NKAP scheme (modified, not fully in line etc.)

Cheers,
KL 

Hi KL,
I agree with you that camo scheme on "22" is very similar to NKAP 1934 template. Even if I agree regarding wings, there is significant difference - AMT-11 area on the left fuselage between cockpit and engine does not continue to the left wing like on template, but it ends on the left wing root and whole wing root is  AMT-12. This part is completely different from NKAP template.

I will be without computer next cca 2 weeks, only smartphone. I will update picture ("warm" grey) then.

Btw, is that "St" from AIF former "Alex"?

Regards,
    66misos

Have you seen VIF post at http://vif2ne.ru/nvi/forum/0/co/162154.htm  - illustrates precisely what I said about "St"....
Better don't waste your time with extremely suspicious  information...

Cheers,
KL

Hi KL,
Thanks for link, you saved me a lot of time. :) I read post at that link plus some others. There seems to be quite a "hot atmosphere" at AIF around "St".  :o
Regards,
   66misos