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General Category => works in process => Topic started by: 66misos on October 27, 2014, 01:03:28 PM



Title: La-5FN 1944
Post by: 66misos on October 27, 2014, 01:03:28 PM
Hi,
here I started to colorize another photo:
(http://i1063.photobucket.com/albums/t518/66misos/La-5FN/141027_CSLa-5FN_Zima1944-45vPolsku_zps7eca0652.jpg)
It should show Czechoslovak La-5FN and pilots somewhere in Poland during their fly from SU to Slovakia in winter 1944/45.

And here is my Oct 27 update:
(http://i1063.photobucket.com/albums/t518/66misos/La-5FN/141028_lapatfn_02_zps22ae5465.jpg)

Your comments are again more than welcome.
Regards,
     66misos


Title: Re: La-5FN 1944
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on October 27, 2014, 01:46:41 PM
Hi Misos,
looks a good start. I would check if the thin panel covering the exhaust pipes should be bare metal too.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: La-5FN 1944
Post by: learstang on October 27, 2014, 05:29:18 PM
Good work, so far, 66misos! I hope it's as good as your Il-2 work.

Regards,

Jason


Title: Re: La-5FN 1944
Post by: 66misos on October 27, 2014, 06:22:34 PM
Hi Jason,
it very depends on the quality of the source photo. This one is closer to Il-2 above Berlin than to the last one, Il-2 at the Budapest airport.
Anyhow, be sure I will do my best ;)
Regards,
    66misos


Title: Re: La-5FN 1944
Post by: MrTrollinski on October 28, 2014, 01:55:57 PM
Very good! :D I will love the finalized version!


Title: Re: La-5FN 1944
Post by: 66misos on October 28, 2014, 04:41:32 PM
Hi,
a little update today - pilots uniforms, although not sure about all that colors. I replaced colorized WIP photo above.
Massimo, I checked other Czechoslovak La-5FN in the MBI publications. They were (often) repainted in the field, not following standard scheme very strictly, they all seems to have repainted thin panel covering the exhaust pipes.
I found this photo also in the mentioned MBI publication. Caption says: "Training of the pilots of the 1. Czechoslovak mixed air division in SU, Przemysl, winter 1944-45. In the background, behind a group of Czechoslovak airmen, stands one of the La-5FNs usedf there (photo: J. Vrany collection)"
Regards,
    66misos


Title: Re: La-5FN 1944
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on October 29, 2014, 07:34:48 AM
Hi Misos,
good work.
As suggested previously, the colors of the uniforms (and of all the image in general) could be less flat if you turn lights to yellow-red and shadows to blue-cyan.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: La-5FN 1944
Post by: 66misos on October 29, 2014, 12:58:22 PM
Hi Massimo,
another advance plus adjustments according to your recommendations:
(http://i1063.photobucket.com/albums/t518/66misos/La-5FN/141029_lapatfn_03_zpsbeed1247.jpg)
Regards,
   66misos


Title: Re: La-5FN 1944
Post by: 66misos on October 30, 2014, 04:09:46 PM
Hi,
finished photo is posted in the galery at http://sovietwarplanes.com/board/index.php?topic=1902.0 (http://sovietwarplanes.com/board/index.php?topic=1902.0)
Regards,
   66misos


Title: Re: La-5FN 1944
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on October 31, 2014, 06:58:06 AM
Hi Misos,
it is an excellent work as usual, but I would suggest to saturate colors, particularly on the ground and crew.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: La-5FN 1944
Post by: 66misos on November 02, 2014, 05:44:17 PM
Hi Massimo,
I reworked pilot's uniforms but the ground is intentionally left as it is. Also on the other forum is was recognized as frozen ground with the dry gras - exactly what I wanted to do.
I already updated picture in the galery.
Thanks for advice.
Regards,
    66misos


Title: Re: La-5FN 1944
Post by: 66misos on November 03, 2014, 02:57:02 PM
Hi,
I have got interesting note at Czech modelforum - "Board numbers were (usually) outlined red or blue. Why did you make it solid white?"
This is original photo:
(http://i1063.photobucket.com/albums/t518/66misos/La-5FN/141027_CSLa-5FN_Zima1944-45vPolsku_zps7eca0652.jpg)
There is some outline visible. However, I do not know whether it is original outline or only compression artefacts.

Here is enlarged detail with alternatives:
(http://i1063.photobucket.com/albums/t518/66misos/La-5FN/141103_lemovaniecisla01_zps3ff34e57.jpg)

At Massimo's Mig3 page is this picture:
(http://www.mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/colors/mark-colors/whiteblue.jpg)
with this text: "White number with blue outline; the only original fragment of La-5FN shows a dark blue outline around the white bort number. Those numbers were standard and painted in the factory, so it is likely that all La-5F. FN and La-7 had this style of numbers."
Seems I should again rework/update colorized picture ???
Regards,
    66misos


Title: Re: La-5FN 1944
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on November 03, 2014, 03:10:27 PM
Hi Misos,
I didn't noticed this detail. Sorry.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: La-5FN 1944
Post by: 66misos on November 03, 2014, 03:35:00 PM
Hi Massimo,
it is OK, there is no reason to appologize. Just oppozite, I like these discussion on the different forums. More people, more notes and corrections with the common goal - color picture as much historicaly accurate as possible. I do not like one-man-show approach like some other profile painters with "historian hut". ;)
Regards,
   66misos


Title: Re: La-5FN 1944
Post by: 66misos on November 06, 2014, 07:28:06 PM
Hi,
I was a bit quite. My comp was gone :'( I use "spare" 6 years old PC (formerly my daughter's PC) now. No possible to make pictures on it, just to play on internet.
Here are some outcomes from discussions about outline of the board numbers at:

1.) airforce.ru forum (Mikhail Bykov, Igor Zlobin...):
- black outline was very rare,
- if outline is very apparent, it is most probably red or dark blue,
- if outline is visible only a little, is is most probably blue like that one on Mig3 page.

This is another Lavochkin used by Czechoslovaks in SU - outline is very light:
(http://www.cs-letci.com/ww2/sssr/letadla/pic/vendl02.jpg)

2.) modelforum.cz forum:
- Photo of the La-7 remnants found near by Klimkovice, Czech Republic on September (2014) - board number is dark blue:
(http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1023704)
- dark blue outline - zavod 381 in Moscov,
- light blue outline - zavod 21 Gorkij.

regards,
  66misos


Title: Re: La-5FN 1944
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on November 06, 2014, 08:45:49 PM
Hi Misos,
the indications of Modelforum.cz sound convincing and exhaustive. It's the first time I see these remains of La-7.
The answers of airforce.ru sound guessed.
Was there any other factory producing Lavockins in 1943/45, other han 381 and 21?
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: La-5FN 1944
Post by: KL on November 06, 2014, 10:24:08 PM
Was there any other factory producing Lavockins in 1943/45, other than 381 and 21?

Hi Massimo & Missos,

yes, La-7 was also produced by Zavod 99 in Ulan-Ude (East Siberia).  Zavod 99 made a total of (only!) 250 La-7s...

You guys have to understand how Soviet aviation industry worked during WWII:  Production wasn't shared between 3 factories - there was rather a "Main factory" and one or more "Shadow factories".  For various reasons (organization, geography etc.), "shadow factories" usually contributed only a small number of planes.  In case of La-7, of over 6000 planes which were produced:

-  Zavod 21 (Main factory) made over 85%
-  Zavod 381 made about 10%
-  Zavod 99 made less than 5%

For La-5 number of planes made by the "Main factory" (Zavod 21) is even higher.  Zavod 21 made over 90% of the total of about 9000 La-5s.

Did outline denote factory?  Judging by photos - probably not.  Light blue should be present on 9 of 10 photographed planes and that is not what we see on photos...
Or, the variability of outlines (from black to light gray on b/w photos) depends on other factors - sensitivity of the film, lighting etc...

HTH,
KL

  


Title: Re: La-5FN 1944
Post by: KL on November 06, 2014, 10:36:10 PM
...
2.) modelforum.cz forum:
- Photo of the La-7 remnants found near by Klimkovice, Czech Republic on September (2014) - board number is dark blue:
(http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1023704)


thanks for posting this!  Looks like another myth has been busted - all those profiles (and models) with red outlined numbers are questionable now.  :o
Regards,
KL


Title: Re: La-5FN 1944
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on November 07, 2014, 05:00:25 AM
Hi KL,
thank you for your answer. So, there is the vague possibility that 5% of Lavockins had a red outline, but blue is the rule.
I hope that some decals producer will be informed of the thing and will produce a set of standard numbers to correct the existing kits.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: La-5FN 1944
Post by: 66misos on November 07, 2014, 07:40:02 AM
Hi,
KL, thank you for interesting info.
Massimo, Igor Zlobin at his page http://fighters.front.ru/str/mod.htm (http://fighters.front.ru/str/mod.htm) offers decals for La-5/7 with two slightly different fonts and several outline alternatives:
(http://fighters.front.ru/deca/23232/72001.jpg)  (http://fighters.front.ru/deca/23232/72001-1.jpg)
Regards,
   Misos


Title: Re: La-5FN 1944
Post by: KL on November 07, 2014, 06:43:15 PM
Hi Misos,
only one colour, light blue, on that decal sheet is based on evidence.  All other colours are guessed from black and white photos and they could be all wrong...
On both wrecks from eastern Europe (other wreck is from Poland), outline is blue - so, at this time, there is no evidence for black and two shades of red.

regards,
KL