Sovietwarplanes

I'm curious.

I do share a great interest with the model representations of Soviet aircraft with everyone here on this forum, but I'm wondering why? What is it about the LaGGs, La-5s, Po-I-3s and Yak UTI-1s that endear themselves to us?

I'm coming back to modelling aircraft after many years of practically living inside other people's PC cases, for pleasure and profit. Time for a change, and what better way to stay frosty than the quiet fume-ridden atmosphere of modeling? First decision was 'what shall I build'? Which scale? was the second.

We've all been there. Remember those P40s, FW190s or 1/48th B-17s (which turned out ok, as it goes, in my case) and probably too many spitfires and bf109s to recall?

The soviet machines up to 1947 ish are relatively new as subjects. In days iof yore I can recall an airfix Il-2 (with an Il-10 on the box), an airfix Pe-2 and Yak 9 and that was about all you got as choices.

Plus, I love a spot of Soviet history in all it's glory(?) and buy a lot of books on this subject (just recently Yakovlev's 'Aim of a Lifetime', brilliant stuff). So a natural choice was the VVS as my own minor insignificant tribute to the brave, ordinary, russian man and woman aviator who fought a war of desperate brutality against a regime of unparalleled evil, not counting its own Government. I've finally decided to use the 1/72nd scale and start with 'requisitioned' Imperial WW1 biplanes (SPAD, Nieuport etc.) in soviet colours and work up to something like the La-9 or An-2 and end there. Not much a of a jet fan, so that's ok by me. The build pile is large enough for a comprehensive collection now. Happy bunny. Interesting aircraft of a period now long ago should keep me busy for a while.

So. What is it that appeals to -you- about this subject matter, either the history or planes/pilots concerned or both. Any replies well appreciated!

Thanks.

hello!


That could be a long topic to discuss, but cutting it shortly I would express myslef in the following words.
The interest to VVS of WWII came to me by all means in my life: some history issue, the living location (Lithuania), friends, relatives etc.
But the main of them is the glory and braveness of those people who has faught during WWII. The ability to watch many of them alive when I still was a kid. Listening to them, speaking to them. All of this made me interested to the history of VVS and then the start of modeling in 1/72. The simplicity and in same case the spirit of all those aircrafts by VVS make me interested in them very much. Modeling any a/c and getting more to know about it and especially the pilot who flew it makes me stuck on this subject. I am happy that I do have an interest on the subject.

BR Audrius

Agree totally.

I suppose we're all paying our tributes in our own small way to those, often, young men (and women) who paid the ultimate price fighting for their homeland in whatever country of your choice.

Thanks for your reply : )

A difficult question!

For me, it was a number of things, as I suspect is the case for anyone.? History/reference reading, modeling, wargaming, avaition art collecting . . . it's all a way of memorializing a very intense period of history.? For the most of my life, I was similiar to other aviation enthusiast in my unwavering admiration of what the German war industry managed to turn out.? However, about 10 years ago I learned fluent Russian from native speakers, and picked up much history and culture from them.? By this point, I've even lived in St Petersburg a few months.? It's like my second home.? So, you could say my switch to Russian aircraft was something personal.? I know the people, and I understand them for the most part.? (The one I would most like to know is a dancer at the Marstall Club just off Nyevskij Prospekt!? :o? But I digress . . .)? Also, knowing the history and seeing what they had to suffer through both internally and externally during WWII led me to have a deep admiration for the sacrifice of the common Russian under such horrible circumstances.? I clearly remember looking up at the I-16 hanging in the Naval Museum in Petersburg, seeing how this thing was put together, and thinking, "my God, it took great balls to climb into this thing and fly into battle!"? But fly they did.?

Another thing is that as far as modeling goes, the very last thing the world needs is another monograph or model on the Bf109.? Don't get me wrong, I love that plane, too.? But it's been done to death.? There just aren't nearly as many people doing Russian subjects, and I prefer not to follow the crowd.? And last, perhaps two years ago by now, I entered into a discussion with one Massimo Tessitori over some different ideas I had about one of his MiG-3 profiles, and well, here we are today!? ?;D

I agree also with the memorial aspect of the hobby.? You will never see a more surprised look than a Russian who has just discovered some westerner is so very interested in Russian military history from WWII!

I started getting into GPW-era VVS about 2000 when the ICM Yak-9 and Accurate Miniatures Il-2 were still new on the market.
to this day those are still two of my favorite VVS kits.(the Yak-9 is my favorite subject matter)
my interests grew as I learned about the different types and most especially when I learned about all the different colors and patterns applied to them.

now,... to seperate lie from truth.

Thanks for your answers. :)

Incidentally, you may have already visited www.iremember.ru and signed the guestbook. I adore the site, hair-raising accounts (and from my perspective especially the women sniper's recollections) make you think long and hard about Leningrad (900 days siege as you'll be aware) Kursk, and other savagery at other fronts.

Ciao.

Hi,
it's my time to explain the reason of my interest for the VVS.
I like planes of all nations and ages; many years ago I was particularly fond of Japanese planes; I love all classic warplanes, and I particularly amazed by painting of German, Italian and Japanese army planes. I avoid accurately any ideoogical or political influence on these and following choices.
Well, the reason that makes more interesting for me to write of Russian planes is that they are the less known, despite the huge number that took part to actions.
Except for few subjects, documents on Russian planes are relatively few, dispersed on a wide number of sources, or hardly accessible to many due to geographic and linguistic difficulties.
Any work collecting and connecting such informations is satisfying because it contributes to fill an undeserved void, as a puzzle. Subjects as Messerschmitts and Mustangs are amazing and I have them in my model collection, but they hardly need further description.
Besides, the possibility to update this work written on a web site gives an advantage on paper-written books that are unmodifiable, so one can't know if the authors themselves are still convinced of what they have written.
I would add: my interest is mainly modellistic and pictorial, even if I have sometimes to look for historical informations, just to complete the documentation on a subject.
Massimo :)

I guess that it is now my turn to try to explain my interest in the VVS.  First, as background, I am a modeler and have been building models since the 1950s,  I love aircraft and seem to have a very broad interest.  I build WW I, WW II and modern aircraft and have been studying various aircraft for many years.  I have my share of Mustangs and 109s but I find myself drawn to some of the lesser known aircraft or at least some lesser known markings of well known aircraft.  I find myself drawn to build aircraft with specific stories.  For instance, I build aircraft of the aces as well as those of specific personnel.  I have a model of Galchenko's LaGG-3 and Mykhlik's Il-2 while one of the I-16s in my collection has Finnish markings.  To me, the interesting part is the research, not necessarily the model itself.  The fairly recent availability of previously unavailable information about the VVS offers a rich source of some very interesting stories and aircraft markings.

I guess that after all, my interest in the VVS is just a small but very interesting part of my aircraft enjoyment.

Clare

Some reasons are the same as Audrius wrote. History of Poland in XXth century, interest in Russian/Soviet military history...
But I also remember the begining of it - after reading "Niebo vojny" by A. Pokryshkin some in late 1980's. Before this book like many Polish teenagers I was interested in Spitfires and Hurricanes of Polish Squadrons in RAF.
BTW Jakovlev's "Cel zizni" is a book I dont like - its an autopromotion of a Soviet politician of Stalin's era who did all his best, as a head (komissar) of Soviet aviation industry, to gain factories for his fighters and to promote his designs in favour of the others (i.e. aprovall for I-26 which failed to pass state tests). In some cases, in his book, Jakovlev is clearly missing the truth so one should be carefull reading this (i.e. case of delta wood, Polikarpov - "man who failed to give the Motherland a fighter to defend it").

Hi,
I agree about Yakovlev and Polikarpov, the I-185 was not a failure at all, and ITP too was obstacled by the ministry, for what I read. It would be interesting to know how an hypotheric operative I-180 would be, certainly it killed many test pilots, but it was well developed at the time of its suppression, differently from other types.
Massimo

Absolutely agree.

I've been poring over this book for months. The work itself is remarkable because of the literary and political overtones, and other subtle brush-strokes that are harder to absorb. It's a prosaic jigsaw he gives us, the pieces of which are scattered and don't provide us with the image they were meant to assemble into, methinks.

A S Y seems to be constantly walking a tightrope, one, perhaps of his own crafting. On the one hand, he does refer to Stalinesque excesses in a negative (but ineffectual) light, but always falls short of a downright crticism of Stalin (and this extends to Voroshilov and others). One revealing photo, which you will be aware of, is of Stalin resting his hand upon A S Y's shoulder in comradely fashion during an UT-2 demonstration -kind of sets the scene for that remarkable favouritism shown in later years. A S Y is clearly enraptured.

'...Stalin waved me closer, made room for me to sit near him and put his hand on my shoulder. ...that memorable day of my life'

It's a phenomenal image, put simply.

I also get the impression that some other hand is at work here. State-appointed censors notwithstanding, there are some curious errors and omissions. Sergei Lavochkin? He'd have known better than that, but didn't or wouldn't find a mechanism to correct it.

As for N N Polikarpov, and I quote directly:

'...After all these years as an undisputed authority...outstripped by hitherto obscure beginners who had created...the MiG, the YAK and LAGG...'.

'He (Polikarpov) was keenly aware...that to have nothing to offer the country in its hour of greatest need was more than a personal fiasco...'

He then goes on to dilute his own commentary by adding some personal compliments, a tried and trusted mechanism of the adept politician --however the meaning is clear, is it not?

A very intriguing individual is A S Y. Of that there can be no doubt.

Edited for: grammar.

Why the VVS? Because it is more of a challenge. If I see one more Monograph on the Mustang or another aftermarket Resin Detail set for a Spitfire I will go nuts. THIS way I have to really look for stuff. It makes me work harder. It makes me think. It becomes more fun this way.

On a personal note - a few years ago I was working in the former Eastern block and met a lovely lady who became my wife. on subsequent visits I became 'switched on' to Soviet history and particularly the Great Patriotic War. I became to realise that every other theatre of World War 2 was a side-show in comparison. Yet we in the 'West' still no very little about this conflict. We still know little about the people, places and history...

Therefore we should all endeavour to do justice to the Russian-speaking World, culture & history (not excluding Ukrainian, Kazak, etc, etc...). We can enjoy our modelling hobby and forge friendship and understanding - east to west, and back again.

Mark ,? Hello and welcome to the group!
Thank You for doing the hard stuff, those Me (or Bf) 109's have got to be snap with all the stuff out there on them.
I like your description of 'doing it the hard way' I , too like the VVS stuff because it is a challenge
that helps keep the brain cells in tip-top working condition.


Yes, the west is still largely in the dark about our Soviet allies during that time, mostly due to the Cold War that followed it. the Cold War probably did more damage to our understanding of the The Great Patriotic War than we will ever know. (sigh!)


Here ! Here ! I'll drink to that ! (we should make your words our 'Mantra')

Hi all,

new to the forum but i've been keeping up with the site for a while.  great info.

as far as why i'm building the soviet planes, my grandfather was fixing them in prussia in 1944.  that and i always go for the less popular and practically no one builds anything but the same old 109's and 190's.  maybe there's something magic about those digits.  :)

I guess it's my turn.
I was always into history & moddeling in 1/72 and I was dead bored to see only 109's, 190's Spits, Mustangs and odd B-17 getting their due in the moddeling circles. So became interested into Yugoslav, French, Polish, Italian planes ( anything but messerschmidt's, focke wulfs, spits, and mustangs) but decent models of Soviet planes were not available (except for few KP models). Then in late 90's I got Il-2 by TOKO, Yak-9 by ICM and translation of the book by Emelyanenko (birthdays are usefull after all ;D).
That got me thinking and digging around for more. Little or almost nothing was known about conditions in which these brave man and women fought. Most of one could find were German accounts. Than a friend loaned me his collection of Czeh PKR, HiPM magazines. Then i got my first books, more models, more books and magazines, still more moddels, couple of CD's with soviet military music and Il-2 forgotten battles and now i'm hooked for life ;D
Now i got a fame in my moddeling club for beiing the odd one who knows more than others on topic of VVS in GPW (and truth be told i'm a begginer in this topic).There a precious few of us "VVS in GPW" buffs in Slovenia.

Apart from admiration for the men and women of the VVS who fought so bravely against great obstacles during the GPW, I would say that Russian aircraft of this period are the most attractive and interestingly camouflaged and marked of *all* airforces.

Because of this, I suggest that the question to kit manufacturers and producers of decals, books, and accessories is, "Why NOT the VVS?". Many people in this thread have commented on the many kits, etc., available for the Mustang, Bf-109, and other types. If it were not for such manufacturers as Amodel, ICM, and Dakoplast (gone, but not forgotten), modelbuilders would have almost nothing in 1/72 scale.

John Thompson

My situation is similar. My wife and stepson are from a small town just outside Nizhniy Novgorod. I never knew too much about Soviet avaition during the GPW years but my father-in-law took me to the Chkalov museum (just north of Gorodets) 3 1/2 years ago, and I was hooked  ;D. This region has played such a huge role in the development of VVS fighters over the past 90 years that I had to learn more. Now that my stepson is old enough to start working on these models  too, we start a new history lesson each time we go to the local hobby shop and purchase a kit, it's immensely interesting for both of us. We are truly lucky to have a shop that has a LOT of Soviet stuff in stock, all the time, and a website like this one to use as a point of reference!


I completely agree! When I was growing up in Pennsylvania, we were basically taught in school "USSR is a bad place and you don't want to go there". They were wrong! I advise anyone who has the opportunity to visit - GO! Above the rich history and culture, the people are some of the warmest, most hospitable I have ever met, anywhere in the world...

Jet

I have a very similar story, but what caught my attention is that the lovely woman I've been married to for the last five years is also from a small town near Nizhniy Novgorod. We must have had some very similar experiences in our visits to Russia!

My interest in the VVS came a little differently. I am an aeronautical engineer and have been fascinated by aviation my entire life - in fact my parents say that when I was around 2 years old they quickly noticed that unlike other boys I shunned the little cast metal cars they bought me but that I would play with the toy airplanes until only small pieces were left. So I got into modeling at about age 5 - begging my dad to let me have plastic kits and later balsa kits and finally R/C kits even before I reached the recommended age on the box!

Forward many years, and while I was studying towards my PhD in the United States (I am from South Africa and returned to South Africa after my studies), I used to have a few regular email friends - I guess the modern version of pen-pals. One was a girl from Russia with whom I regularly discussed politics and cultures, etc. At around that time, a computer game called IL-2 Sturmovik was under development, and I would often discuss development issues with the developer, a guy called Oleg Maddox. Many people said the game would not be successful due to its Eastern Front setting, but I was intrigued by this one area of WWII aviation about which I knew very little. The game actually became very popular, but that's another story. The fact is, I got so intrigued that I started getting the itch to visit Russia and see the place for myself. Since I sort-of knew someone from there, I asked her if it would be possible to stay with them for a few days as I travelled through the country. Realising I couldn't speak much Russian, she quickly said traveling through Russia by myself would not be a good idea, but she offered to let me stay with them for the entire time (I can just imagine what her parents must have said about that idea). Well, soon after meeting this girl in real life, my interest in Russia became much more specific as an interest in a particular Russian...

Since then, I have visited and traveled through Russia on many occasions and my modeling have acquired a distinct Soviet WWII flavour, although I still do the odd Spitfire or Bf-109. My library on WWII history and aviation has also become quite lopsided and the great majority of it is now Soviet material. Besides the aviation, I have also become a big fan of David Glantz's books on WWII history, among others.

Strange... I am Russian, but had quite an unpleasant experience from RSA, Jo-burg to be exact... I almost got married there, but Allah saved me from this move... And right in the nick of time. If you'll ever plan to come to St-Petersburg, let me know and i'll show you around. If i'll bee in the city, that is...

I am very sorry to hear about your experience. SA has gone through a bad time in the 90s, especially in terms of crime. Now it feels like it is improving slowly, but it is still a big challenge for the government and nation as a whole. My experience here has been very positive though, I grew up in SA (Krugersdorp then Pretoria), went to the USA for 5 years to complete my PhD and then returned to SA - never regretted my return for a second. My wife also loves it here and I must say the country has been very good to us - we both have really good jobs and live very comfortably. I also enjoy the fact that it feels like both of us really are making a contribution to the future of the country. Mind you, I enjoyed living in the USA very much, but once you have Africa in your blood...

Thanks for the invitation - I spent a week in St Petersburg in winter 2005/06; one of the loveliest cities I have ever had the pleasure to visit. One week was not nearly enough to visit all the places I wanted to see though. Next time I would like to go in summer so I can see all those palace gardens in their full beauty!

Cheers,
Bennie

Probably so! Liliya (my wife) is from Balakhna, roughly halfway between N. Novgorod and Gorodets (traveling north along the Volga). How about those passport control agents at N.N. airport?  ;D LOL
Funny you mention Il-2 as Lil was a great help with some 3-D modelling I did for Operation Flashpoint even before "Breathe" was released to the mod community. I have corresponded infrequently w/ Oleg, a fine gentleman!

Yes, I really liked RSA as a country, but croocks spoilled the picture... What is also unpleasant? it's the absence of direct flights - I had to go through KLM or AF (KLM seems to be better). I spent 2 years in GB and love the country, while I completely dislike the USA, where I spent a year... Currently I'm finishing my PhD...

If You will be willing to come to my city, my e-mail is in the interview section. And have you seen the I-16 in the Naval museum?

... my turn ...
Why VVS ?!  I'm Bulgarian http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulgaria, and our Liberation Day passed not long ago ( 3rd of March). The russian soldiers gave their lives for our freedom in the Russo-Turkish War (1877?1878) and this is the reason for most of us to be grateful to the people of Russia. Neither The Russian Empire nor the Soviet Union. Besides this is not the whole and only reason. I see some people here married russian girls, so they've had the possibility to get known with the "russian soul" from a short distance. It's amazing how these people have done enough great stuff despite the suffering and the cruel fate.
 I got into this forum while I was looking for some info on MiG-3, which IMHO is the most beautiful plane of the WWII era. It doesn't matter that it was not such a "success" like the Yak-s and the La-s this plane simply manifests speed and power.

... there's a lot more, but I dont like long posts  :)

Why the VVS? I've always been a history buff and I've always been attracted by topics which are off the beaten track and difficult to understand. This pretty much describes the Eastern Front as far as materials available to westerners is concerned. I agree that the Eastern Front makes the rest of WW2 look like a side show and the immense scale of the conflict is fascinating in itself. And the story of the Soviet Union and its people teetering on the brink of disaster for two years and then climbing back to first parity and then dominance is compelling.

Plus, I have a Ukrainian girlfriend.

Dam! After reading this posts someone may think that you can't date ex-USSR girls without building a model of VVS planes...

Curious: Why do you like Britain and dislike the USA?? I grew up in Great Britain, live in Canada and have close relatives in the USA.

Just because would be the easiest and most complete answer. Why do you love one woman, but not another?

As an ex-Luftwaffe buff, I very recently turned over to VVS subjects. While I always loved modern russian jets like the MiG-29. MiG-31, Su-27 etc. which I still build in 1/48, I had fascination towards German subjects since my childhood. Well few years ago when my apetite for Luftwaffe models was getting close to well satisfied, I turned on to my other appreciated subjects like Japanese, Italian, French, anything that has elaborate camouflage or colorful markings.  Few months ago I purchased a Dako Yak-9d with the cool artwork and I couldn't avoid to compare that Yak with the MiG-29, sleek looking two-toned grey bird. I managed to purchase several VVS kit from that seller on ebay and there I am now with a new love for that airforce that courageously fought against overwhelming odds.

The best aspect of interest in the VVS is of course the inherent lack of exposure, knowledge that is slowly coming to light, thrilling new sides that make the Soviet air force of that period look less black and white than what years of cold war obscurantism showed us. I remember seeing the La-5 or Il-2 as plain uncolored aircraft with numbers as markings. Now all has changed, I can affirm with security that VVS subjects have some of the most colorful specimens in WW2 aviation history, in par sometimes with their Italian counterparts. Another nice aspect in the modelling theme is the fact that most VVS subjects are no shake N bake kits like US or Japanese subjects are. One has to research troughly, modify, compare with pictures, etc. which in many way makes it all worthwhile as true replica modelling goes. 
Finally, in the matter of aesthetics, I would say most VVS subjects are somewhat unique in the way the designs combine elegant sleekness with rustic apperance which make them so pleasing to the eye.

I ordered the I-185 from aviapress.com, but as usual it takes months even years to be dispatched. Would you know anything of the Maquette kit? It may well be the same as the Eastern Express, but regarding the lack of opinion on either I opted for maquette.

Dave 8)

Hi, :)
I think that it's the same mould, a poor one. I've built it a lot of years ago.
It requires a lot of work and a decision on which prototype has to be reproduced. It's similar to the prototype with M-82 engine, but it should be increased in total length. The final prototype should have a wider diameter cowling.
A lot of excellent drawings and photos do exist on this plane, but I had only a pair of photos when I built my one.
Massimo

Oh dear, looks like I'm in for some 'fun'! ::)
Are there any GOOD kits of the I-185?

Hi, :)
no, for what I know. Four prototypes were built, with strong differences between them . I like that plane, so I hope that Amodel will make it, but it's an hope only. :(
Massimo

Just so happens I'm making a p-40E which, when complete with shark mouth etc, will look like a mad beast ready to kill you!

Dave.