Sovietwarplanes

Great Patriotic War Aviation => Lavochkins => Topic started by: barneybolac on February 08, 2015, 03:07:21 AM



Title: La's of 790 IAP
Post by: barneybolac on February 08, 2015, 03:07:21 AM
Stumbled across these two aircraft with some interesting markings. Any more known about these espically the La-7 with the badge nose art what is that emblem?

http://aviadejavu.ru/Site/Arts/Art4628.htm

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/LA%205%207%20Russian/4-4_zps2qb7rax6.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/LA%205%207%20Russian/4-4_zps2qb7rax6.jpg.html)

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/LA%205%207%20Russian/4-2_zpstwuptqd1.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/LA%205%207%20Russian/4-2_zpstwuptqd1.jpg.html)

Also while at it this La-7 anymore known about it?

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/LA%205%207%20Russian/110804221620_La-7_zvezda_na_koke_Gvardiyakopirovanie_zpshqbhfdqv.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/LA%205%207%20Russian/110804221620_La-7_zvezda_na_koke_Gvardiyakopirovanie_zpshqbhfdqv.jpg.html)

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/LA%205%207%20Russian/110804221629_Pa-7_zvezda_na_koke_Gvardiya_2kopirovanie_zpshjm9y1rh.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/LA%205%207%20Russian/110804221629_Pa-7_zvezda_na_koke_Gvardiya_2kopirovanie_zpshjm9y1rh.jpg.html)


Title: Re: La's of 790 IAP
Post by: barneybolac on February 08, 2015, 04:51:00 AM
Stumbled across these two aircraft with some interesting markings. Any more known about these espically the La-7 with the badge nose art what is that emblem?

http://aviadejavu.ru/Site/Arts/Art4628.htm

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/LA%205%207%20Russian/4-4_zps2qb7rax6.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/LA%205%207%20Russian/4-4_zps2qb7rax6.jpg.html)

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/LA%205%207%20Russian/4-2_zpstwuptqd1.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/LA%205%207%20Russian/4-2_zpstwuptqd1.jpg.html)

Also while at it this La-7 anymore known about it?

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/LA%205%207%20Russian/110804221620_La-7_zvezda_na_koke_Gvardiyakopirovanie_zpshqbhfdqv.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/LA%205%207%20Russian/110804221620_La-7_zvezda_na_koke_Gvardiyakopirovanie_zpshqbhfdqv.jpg.html)

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/LA%205%207%20Russian/110804221629_Pa-7_zvezda_na_koke_Gvardiya_2kopirovanie_zpshjm9y1rh.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/LA%205%207%20Russian/110804221629_Pa-7_zvezda_na_koke_Gvardiya_2kopirovanie_zpshjm9y1rh.jpg.html)

Translated the text on the LA-7 photo.

"Fighter La-7 bearing the number "27" the commander of the 1st AE Major A.K.Sannikova; on the hood of the engine are shown in white arrow (the sign of the rapid identification of aircraft in the air 790 IAP) and the Order of Kutuzov. Sit on the fuselage technology, from left to right: st.serzhant Jacob Rosenbaum, st.serzhant Akhtam Kasimov, st.serzhant Nikolai Eremin. The picture was taken at the airport Shchuchin in Belarus in autumn 1945.
Aviation and Space 2007-07 / M.Nikolsky - 790 th Fighter III degree Order of Kutuzov Regiment"


So Order of Kutuzov Regiment III rd class is the badge ID.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_Kutuzov


Title: Re: La's of 790 IAP
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on February 08, 2015, 08:00:56 AM
Hi,
great photos, thank you for posting. I like the badge on the nose very much. The La-5 seems numbered 17.
Pity that they don't show the rear part of the planes.   Who knows if there is any more information on the Russian book?
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: La's of 790 IAP
Post by: warhawk on February 08, 2015, 12:26:11 PM
Excellent images, thanks for sharing!

An interesting point is that wing root sand filter is clearly visible on the third image.
Does this suggest GPW use of these?


Title: Re: La's of 790 IAP
Post by: barneybolac on February 10, 2015, 02:00:11 AM
This is not a 790 IAP La-7 I thought I would keep it in this thread for the recent info on these La-7's I have been looking for. Anyone know what unit this is with?
The link refers to the pilot as A.I.Mayorova.

Using google translator it says ST Georges & a word that makes no sense for the slogan?

http://aviadejavu.ru/Site/Crafts/Craft19957.htm

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/LA%205%207%20Russian/pic_37_zpsp3tdl1pg.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/LA%205%207%20Russian/pic_37_zpsp3tdl1pg.jpg.html)


Title: Re: La's of 790 IAP
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on February 11, 2015, 03:30:00 PM
Hi,
I've asked Ilya Grinberg. Here is his answer:
Quote
Speaking of the photograph, although the inscription is partially obstructed, there is little doubt the the text says Georgievskiy Putyeyets. The first word describes the region and the second word means affiliation with railway.
So it is Railman from Georgievsk.
Clearly, railway workers from Georgievsk raised funds and the aircraft was allocated with an inscription to recognize their contributions.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: La's of 790 IAP
Post by: barneybolac on February 11, 2015, 09:47:47 PM
Hi,
I've asked Ilya Grinberg. Here is his answer:
Quote
Speaking of the photograph, although the inscription is partially obstructed, there is little doubt the the text says Georgievskiy Putyeyets. The first word describes the region and the second word means affiliation with railway.
So it is Railman from Georgievsk.
Clearly, railway workers from Georgievsk raised funds and the aircraft was allocated with an inscription to recognize their contributions.
Regards
Massimo

Thank you this makes sense now the online translations are sketchy at best.

Now to figure who this aircraft was with during the war.


Title: Re: La's of 790 IAP
Post by: barneybolac on February 12, 2015, 12:10:49 AM
One more aircraft I have a question on. The profiles I have found on this La-7 from the 813th show it with a red or orange looking nose. The photo seems to show a colour other than red.
Thoughts as to what colour it is?



(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/LA%205%207%20Russian/25-3_zpsuqhsaz4h.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/LA%205%207%20Russian/25-3_zpsuqhsaz4h.jpg.html)

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/LA%205%207%20Russian/Untitled_zpsj2ino0op.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/LA%205%207%20Russian/Untitled_zpsj2ino0op.jpg.html)

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/LA%205%207%20Russian/1_29_zpsyictlzih.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/LA%205%207%20Russian/1_29_zpsyictlzih.jpg.html)

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/LA%205%207%20Russian/18-3_zpsjskihzrv.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/LA%205%207%20Russian/18-3_zpsjskihzrv.jpg.html)


Title: Re: La's of 790 IAP
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on February 12, 2015, 09:42:17 PM
Hi,
I've asked both to Alex Ruchkovsky and to Timoshenko.
AR thinks that the plane is still bearing the factory camouflage, even if worn and retouched, because it thas still the numbers in the factory 21 style. He says that this unit should have a white band under the star... and I think to see a very worn white band on the fuselage undersurface under the number.
He thinks that the nose is painted with a different shade of red, lighter than the one of stars. I think to have seen different shades of red appearing different on bw photos, even if I suspect they are similar when seen to naked eye.
Timoshenko thinks that, if the plane was painted in uniform color, it should be green instead of grey.

It's all that I have collected till now. No sure informations.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: La's of 790 IAP
Post by: barneybolac on February 12, 2015, 10:00:40 PM
Hi,
I've asked both to Alex Ruchkovsky and to Timoshenko.
AR thinks that the plane is still bearing the factory camouflage, even if worn and retouched, because it thas still the numbers in the factory 21 style. He says that this unit should have a white band under the star... and I think to see a very worn white band on the fuselage undersurface under the number.
He thinks that the nose is painted with a different shade of red, lighter than the one of stars. I think to have seen different shades of red appearing different on bw photos, even if I suspect they are similar when seen to naked eye.
Timoshenko thinks that, if the plane was painted in uniform color, it should be green instead of grey.

It's all that I have collected till now. No sure informations.
Regards
Massimo


This is helpful I do see what could be a faded band under the #3 as well as one on the top portion of the star.

Would be nice to find more photos of this group.


Title: Re: La's of 790 IAP
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on February 13, 2015, 02:01:25 PM
Yes, more photos would be good.
Or, at least a scan of this photo made with a black sheet on the back of the page. This scan seems to show trasparencies from the back face and could be tricky.
AR added this link to another plane of the same division.
http://cs307408.vk.me/v307408473/58fd/0bbg3SlGz-4.jpg (http://cs307408.vk.me/v307408473/58fd/0bbg3SlGz-4.jpg)
The second plane shows a nose lighter than the stars, but it is nearly sure that it was red due to the regulations of the division. This seems to confirm the use of a different shade of red.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: La's of 790 IAP
Post by: barneybolac on February 14, 2015, 01:32:18 AM
Yes, more photos would be good.
Or, at least a scan of this photo made with a black sheet on the back of the page. This scan seems to show trasparencies from the back face and could be tricky.
AR added this link to another plane of the same division.
http://cs307408.vk.me/v307408473/58fd/0bbg3SlGz-4.jpg (http://cs307408.vk.me/v307408473/58fd/0bbg3SlGz-4.jpg)
The second plane shows a nose lighter than the stars, but it is nearly sure that it was red due to the regulations of the division. This seems to confirm the use of a different shade of red.
Regards
Massimo


The link you posted here with that photo was the reason why I thought it was another colour.

This is why.

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/LA%205%207%20Russian/2%20giap%20la%2051_zpsszvitvtg.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/LA%205%207%20Russian/2%20giap%20la%2051_zpsszvitvtg.jpg.html)

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/LA%205%207%20Russian/2%20giap%20la%2052_zpsjaphhfm6.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/LA%205%207%20Russian/2%20giap%20la%2052_zpsjaphhfm6.jpg.html)

Always thought it was a strange shade of yellow? I think your right though it is a light shade of red.

These two links support the red nose.
In this instance a red/blue cowling in the first link with the two profiles.

http://soviet-aces-1936-53.ru/abc/s/sobolev_ap.htm

The second link has a photo that I think matches the red/blue combination. The third aircraft over shows the lower portion of the #81 that is in the profile maybe?

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/LA%205%207%20Russian/la7%20b_zpssgvexm5k.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/LA%205%207%20Russian/la7%20b_zpssgvexm5k.jpg.html)

http://arsenal-info.ru/b/book/1679230005/16

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/LA%205%207%20Russian/la5_2giap_zpsej4xh1ax.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/LA%205%207%20Russian/la5_2giap_zpsej4xh1ax.jpg.html)

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/LA%205%207%20Russian/la7_2giap_zpsci44uurk.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/LA%205%207%20Russian/la7_2giap_zpsci44uurk.jpg.html)



Title: Re: La's of 790 IAP
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on February 14, 2015, 03:24:12 PM
Hi,
you think that the profile n.81 is inspired to the photo below?  It's very likely, but in my idea we can see planes 87 and 31/51 on the background, not 81.
Besides I think that the color of the spinnrer, though unclear, fits better with the front ring than with the side of the cowling.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: La's of 790 IAP
Post by: barneybolac on February 14, 2015, 06:49:22 PM
Hi,
you think that the profile n.81 is inspired to the photo below?  It's very likely, but in my idea we can see planes 87 and 31/51 on the background, not 81.
Besides I think that the color of the spinnrer, though unclear, fits better with the front ring than with the side of the cowling.
Regards
Massimo


You are most likely right I was assuming.  ;D


Title: Re: La's of 790 IAP
Post by: barneybolac on February 20, 2015, 11:04:03 PM
Was looking at this video on Youtube it has a few Lavochkins to see.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOdASyKz3TU

At the end of the film there is a La-5 #05 that crosses in front of a UTI La-5 I think #07? It takes 3 frames to see this aircraft completely. The arrows on that La-5 is not something I have seen before either. They seem to be more on La-7's from the profiles & photos I have seen.

Here is a few still shots I took.

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/LA%205%207%20Russian/la%20stripe_zpsyavowpl4.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/LA%205%207%20Russian/la%20stripe_zpsyavowpl4.jpg.html)

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/LA%205%207%20Russian/Untitled_zpsjocxjmyk.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/LA%205%207%20Russian/Untitled_zpsjocxjmyk.jpg.html)

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/LA%205%207%20Russian/uti%20la_zpsvgaznrty.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/LA%205%207%20Russian/uti%20la_zpsvgaznrty.jpg.html)

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/LA%205%207%20Russian/Untitled%20a_zps9aw7ke0d.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/LA%205%207%20Russian/Untitled%20a_zps9aw7ke0d.jpg.html)

I noticed in this link this La-5 has similar markings & colours possibly the same unit as #05?

http://sovietwarplanes.com/board/index.php?topic=239.390

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/LA%205%207%20Russian/La_5_F_1_zpspjl3mccb.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/LA%205%207%20Russian/La_5_F_1_zpspjl3mccb.jpg.html)


Title: Re: La's of 790 IAP
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on February 21, 2015, 07:03:11 AM
Hi,
interesting images indeed. Looking at the spinner and the arrow, it is well likely that 04 and 05 are of the same unit.
07 seems not to have the arrow and has a white rudder, presumably different. The plane of the first image has a painted steel plate with the arrow on it, whilethe nose of the star of 05 looks cutten, as if it was painted on the steel plate and the paint has been lost.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: La's of 790 IAP
Post by: barneybolac on February 21, 2015, 07:03:02 PM
Another interesting video showing a squadron starting its engines.

#82 5th aircraft in has some interesting tail markings & no white or silver borders on the stars on the tail or the fuselage compared to the rest. Possibly a different engine cowl colour as well.

The film is at the 8.31 min mark.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5z-ZnF-vow

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/LA%205%207%20Russian/la7%20number%2082_zpsl55ufb9m.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/LA%205%207%20Russian/la7%20number%2082_zpsl55ufb9m.jpg.html)





Title: Re: La's of 790 IAP
Post by: AC26 on February 21, 2015, 08:18:33 PM
Was looking at this video on Youtube it has a few Lavochkins to see.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOdASyKz3TU

At the end of the film there is a La-5 #05 that crosses in front of a UTI La-5 I think #07? It takes 3 frames to see this aircraft completely. The arrows on that La-5 is not something I have seen before either. They seem to be more on La-7's from the profiles & photos I have seen.
Great film, thank you!

Could #05 and #07 with white spinners and rudders be from 191 IAP?

Cheers,

AaCee


Title: Re: La's of 790 IAP
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on February 21, 2015, 09:31:08 PM
Hi,
the movie doesn't show if plane 05 has a white rudder or not. The first plane with an arrow, seen from the rear, hasn't a white rudder.
The movie shows some Lavochkins with nice oblique bands on the tail too.
Plane 82 is really strange and interesting. I wonder if it has a star on the tail, it should extend on the white parts of the rudder but I can't see this.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: La's of 790 IAP
Post by: barneybolac on February 21, 2015, 10:17:19 PM
Was looking at this video on Youtube it has a few Lavochkins to see.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOdASyKz3TU

At the end of the film there is a La-5 #05 that crosses in front of a UTI La-5 I think #07? It takes 3 frames to see this aircraft completely. The arrows on that La-5 is not something I have seen before either. They seem to be more on La-7's from the profiles & photos I have seen.
Great film, thank you!

Could #05 and #07 with white spinners and rudders be from 191 IAP?

Cheers,

AaCee


#07 I think is the first prototype LA-5 UTI no rear canopy was put on this aircraft & the latter photo of 07 with the white rudder seems to show the same thing?

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/LA%205%207%20Russian/uti%20la_zpsvgaznrty.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/LA%205%207%20Russian/uti%20la_zpsvgaznrty.jpg.html)

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/LA%205%207%20Russian/img013_zpsbfygbcou.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/LA%205%207%20Russian/img013_zpsbfygbcou.jpg.html)

Also there is another UTI La-5 #100 that has the same white rudder.

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/LA%205%207%20Russian/img014_zpsw5pxxrkd.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/LA%205%207%20Russian/img014_zpsw5pxxrkd.jpg.html)

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/LA%205%207%20Russian/17-e089aed7b9_zpss7x9rdwm.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/LA%205%207%20Russian/17-e089aed7b9_zpss7x9rdwm.jpg.html)

This might narrow down possibility's for those more knowledgeable.




Title: Re: La's of 790 IAP
Post by: barneybolac on February 21, 2015, 10:28:18 PM
Hi,
The movie shows some Lavochkins with nice oblique bands on the tail too.

Regards
Massimo

Have identified the unit with the oblique bands.

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/LA%205%207%20Russian/03%20la-7_zpsdoqkxckd.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/LA%205%207%20Russian/03%20la-7_zpsdoqkxckd.jpg.html)

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/LA%205%207%20Russian/la-7%2032nd_zpsxwklzeyi.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/LA%205%207%20Russian/la-7%2032nd_zpsxwklzeyi.jpg.html)


Title: Re: La's of 790 IAP
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on February 22, 2015, 07:47:02 AM
Hi,
looking better at th tail of n.82, I think to see the upper brace of a star as an interruption in the white oblique border of the rudder.
Plane 07 could really be the same after white repaintings. I wonder if the slogan was preserved.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: La's of 790 IAP
Post by: barneybolac on February 24, 2015, 06:18:10 AM
Was looking at this video on Youtube it has a few Lavochkins to see.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOdASyKz3TU

At the end of the film there is a La-5 #05 that crosses in front of a UTI La-5 I think #07? It takes 3 frames to see this aircraft completely. The arrows on that La-5 is not something I have seen before either. They seem to be more on La-7's from the profiles & photos I have seen.
Great film, thank you!

Could #05 and #07 with white spinners and rudders be from 191 IAP?

Cheers,

AaCee

Can only find partial pictures but none complete with these La-5's and the arrows painted on the side.

116 IAP.

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=ru&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fsoviet-aces-1936-53.ru%2Fabc%2Fu%2Fulitin.htm&edit-text=

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/LA%205%207%20Russian/la%2037_zpsnqxbtzdx.png) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/LA%205%207%20Russian/la%2037_zpsnqxbtzdx.png.html)


Title: Re: La's of 790 IAP
Post by: barneybolac on March 25, 2015, 11:05:18 PM
Hi,
He says that this unit should have a white band under the star...

Massimo


Was looking at a profile of the 813 IAP La-5 with a white stripe.

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/LA%205%207%20Russian/0203271_zpsgxkafokz.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/LA%205%207%20Russian/0203271_zpsgxkafokz.jpg.html)

I think I may have found this aircraft in this Youtube video or at least one very much like it seventy?? something for the number. It is only visible for a brief moment & the video quality is not the best.

Can be seen at the 23.14 min mark.

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/LA%205%207%20Russian/Untitled_zpsjqg8puh4.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/LA%205%207%20Russian/Untitled_zpsjqg8puh4.jpg.html)



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5f2sSQDhEU



Title: Re: La's of 790 IAP
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on April 04, 2015, 07:47:32 AM
Hi,
I've had a look to the video.
The number could be 71 (or 74).
The light stripe looks darker than the outline of the star;
all the cowling looks glossy red;
there is a sort of black triangle where you have marked 'badge'. Could it be part of a Guards edge or what else?
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: La's of 790 IAP
Post by: barneybolac on April 04, 2015, 04:32:59 PM
Hi,
Could it be part of a Guards edge or what else?
Regards
Massimo


That was what I was thinking part of the badge.


Title: Re: La's of 790 IAP
Post by: barneybolac on April 04, 2015, 04:55:25 PM
Was looking at this video on Youtube it has a few Lavochkins to see.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOdASyKz3TU

At the end of the film there is a La-5 #05 that crosses in front of a UTI La-5 I think #07? It takes 3 frames to see this aircraft completely. The arrows on that La-5 is not something I have seen before either. They seem to be more on La-7's from the profiles & photos I have seen.
Great film, thank you!

Could #05 and #07 with white spinners and rudders be from 191 IAP?

Cheers,

AaCee

Can only find partial pictures but none complete with these La-5's and the arrows painted on the side.

116 IAP.

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=ru&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fsoviet-aces-1936-53.ru%2Fabc%2Fu%2Fulitin.htm&edit-text=

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/LA%205%207%20Russian/la%2037_zpsnqxbtzdx.png) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/LA%205%207%20Russian/la%2037_zpsnqxbtzdx.png.html)

Another pilot from the 116 IAP who is in the photo.

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=ru&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fsoviet-aces-1936-53.ru%2Fabc%2Fp%2Fpantelkin.htm&edit-text=


Title: Re: La's of 790 IAP
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on April 04, 2015, 09:07:17 PM
Hi,
the cowling looks very posished, perhaps it's gloss red.
I wonder if the camouflage is green-black or grey-grey. The contrast of the star suggests a black background.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: La's of 790 IAP
Post by: barneybolac on April 05, 2015, 12:10:05 AM
Hi,
the cowling looks very posished, perhaps it's gloss red.
I wonder if the camouflage is green-black or grey-grey. The contrast of the star suggests a black background.
Regards
Massimo

Silver or yellow #37?


Title: Re: La's of 790 IAP
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on April 05, 2015, 07:38:00 AM
I can't say. There are many photos of planes of the same unit, and it's clear that the outline of the star and the number is repainted and darker than the arrow, but I can't see nor the characteristic reflection of a metallic color and, often,  not even of a glossy color (on this photo, the whole side around the number appears gloss and reflective).
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: La's of 790 IAP
Post by: barneybolac on April 05, 2015, 08:19:31 AM
There are many photos of planes of the same unit,
Regards
Massimo

I have been struggling to find any from this unit. Where may I ask have you been looking?


Title: Re: La's of 790 IAP
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on April 05, 2015, 07:05:22 PM
There are three photos of similar planes on the MBI monograph at pag.46, but, now that I read, they are credited to 31 IAP, 295 IAD, not 116 IAP.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: La's of 790 IAP
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on May 01, 2015, 08:06:19 PM
Hi,
could anyone read and type this inscription in Russian, please?


(http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/la5/la5uti/07slogan.jpg)
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: La's of 790 IAP
Post by: KL on May 01, 2015, 08:33:28 PM
"Подарок фронту в честь 25-летия ВЛКСМ"

It means "Present to the front in the honour of the 25th anniversary of the Komsomol"
VLKSM is another name for Komsomol, see here:   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Komsomol


Regards,
KL


Title: Re: La's of 790 IAP
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on May 01, 2015, 10:33:57 PM
Thank you Konstantin. It was a long time from your last post in December.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: La's of 790 IAP
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on May 03, 2015, 01:33:46 PM
Hi,
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/LA%205%207%20Russian/uti%20la_zpsvgaznrty.jpg)
interestingly, this plane is not a repained variant of the better known 07, but a rare variant of La-5UTI with 'bubble' canopy. Look at the back, it's completely different.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: La's of 790 IAP
Post by: learstang on May 03, 2015, 05:43:49 PM
Interesting, Massimo - one for the book?

Regards,

Jason


Title: Re: La's of 790 IAP
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on May 03, 2015, 10:20:07 PM
Hi Jason,
probably. I should have other photos of this variant, but I can't find them now. I wait to know if it was built in some number.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: La's of 790 IAP
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on June 17, 2015, 08:37:45 AM
Hi,
returning on this one:
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/LA%205%207%20Russian/18-3_zpsjskihzrv.jpg)
I think that the dark color, grey or green, extends down to the lower part of the side, covering the light blue, the greys and previous markings. The profiles don't report this thing correctly.
Besides the dark color is poorly covering.
The numbers are roughly shaped, they are a poor imitation of the factory codes, so they have to have been repainted.
The clothes are undoubtly heavy. I wonder if it is really the winter 1944/45, or after the war.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: La's of 790 IAP
Post by: 66misos on June 18, 2015, 05:32:23 PM
Hi,
this I found when looking for info about Dolgushin:
...discussion between M.Bykov and other members at airforce.ru forum from 2008:
8 iak introduced following fast recognition elements for its regiments: Lavochkins in 263 iap had white tail, in 156 iap they had white tail with red top and two red stripes while the bottom red stripe was only on rudder and Lavochkins in 813 iap had white band around the fuselage under the fuselage red star...

It is consistent with La-5FN profile and screenshot posted by Barney:
...Was looking at a profile of the 813 IAP La-5 with a white stripe.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/LA%205%207%20Russian/0203271_zpsgxkafokz.jpg)

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/LA%205%207%20Russian/Untitled_zpsjqg8puh4.jpg)

The same profile of La-5FN "07" with the white band from 813 iap is also in the MBI book Lavockin La-5.
Unfortunately I did not find any photo of the real Lavochkin from 813 iap from WWII period.
Regards,
    66misos


Title: Re: La's of 790 IAP
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on June 19, 2015, 07:07:27 AM
Hi Misos,
these informations are good, thank you for posting them. This makes something clear on the screenshot, that has been elusive till not.
The screenshot could be compatible with an uniformly red cowling. Pity not to see the number of this plane. 
Returning to the La-7, this profile suggests how could it have been before the rough dark repainting that deleted the camouflage and the white band. It's particularly interesting to see thatthe mark was already there and is not a postwar addiction.
The light shade of the nose remains elusive; if it's some red, it doesn't resemble to that of the stars, nor of the mark that appear dark.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: La's of 790 IAP
Post by: 66misos on June 19, 2015, 11:00:15 AM
Hi Massimo,
this is also from Vakhlamov's article about Dolgushin:
"Red engine cowling and spinner were introduced by Lieutenant-General A.S. Osipenko in July 1944 before the Bobruisk Operation as the recogniotion marks of the Air Corps (8 iak). At the same time identification marks of the regiments were accepted. For the 156 iap they were alternating horizontal stripes on the tail fin and rudder - three red and three white."

813 iap was part of 8 iak. The red cowling of this plane:
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/LA%205%207%20Russian/18-3_zpsjskihzrv.jpg)
is pretty consistent with Dolgushin's La-7 or this plane from 156 iap, which also was a part of 8 iak:
(http://www.airforce.ru/history/savasleika/photos/156iap.jpg)

I wonder if they in VVS that time used two different red paints giving different appearance on the bw photos.
This is another La-7 from 156 iap:
(http://i1063.photobucket.com/albums/t518/66misos/La-7/156giap02_zpsghrhhxij.jpg)
Note how dark is red on fuselage star (factory paint?) and how bright is red (some field paint?) on the victory starlets beneath cockpit.

On the other side, note how dark is the last red victory starlet on the Klubov's P-39 in comparison to the other white-outlined victory starlets:
(http://planetavvs.ru/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/klubov2.jpg)

Regards,
   66misos


Title: Re: La's of 790 IAP
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on June 19, 2015, 11:31:44 AM
Hi Misos,
this sounds convincing.
Note the dark blotches on the cowing of the plane with the eagle. They could seem shadows, but there is not any similar shadow on the men, so it could be a repainting made with two different reds. I wonder if they were so different if seen with one's eyes.
Regards
Massimo



Title: Re: La's of 790 IAP
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on June 19, 2015, 11:41:33 AM
Hi Misos,
here is a scan of an old magazine with an article about this pilot (Fedyusin I think) from Alex. On the photo, there is an interesting la-7 with a white band. Is it possible to identify the unit and have more informations on it?
(http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/la-7/la-7colors/7_fedyusin.jpg)
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: La's of 790 IAP
Post by: barneybolac on February 23, 2017, 11:45:49 AM
Hi,
great photos, thank you for posting. I like the badge on the nose very much. The La-5 seems numbered 17.
Pity that they don't show the rear part of the planes.   Who knows if there is any more information on the Russian book?
Regards
Massimo

Was looking at this site some more from a recent post on the forums.

http://wio.ru/simbols/sov.htm

Translated to English.

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=ru&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwio.ru%2Fsimbols%2Fsov.htm&edit-text=

There is a brief description of the tail of this unit.

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/LA%205%207%20Russian/Untitled%20790_zps1hfhwimj.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/LA%205%207%20Russian/Untitled%20790_zps1hfhwimj.jpg.html)


Title: Re: La's of 790 IAP
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on February 23, 2017, 12:00:16 PM
Hi,
Quote
Was looking at this site some more from a recent post on the forums.

http://wio.ru/simbols/sov.htm

Translated to English.

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=ru&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwio.ru%2Fsimbols%2Fsov.htm&edit-text=

There is a brief description of the tail of this unit.

Yes, I noted the lines on the tail. I've already drawn a profile without them before having seen this page, but I think I'll add them before uploading the definitive version.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: La's of 790 IAP
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on February 23, 2017, 12:13:53 PM
Hi all
I would return on this image:
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/LA%205%207%20Russian/18-3_zpsjskihzrv.jpg)

The main doubt is the color of the nose.

Quote
"Red engine cowling and spinner were introduced by Lieutenant-General A.S. Osipenko in July 1944 before the Bobruisk Operation as the recogniotion marks of the Air Corps (8 iak). At the same time identification marks of the regiments were accepted. For the 156 iap they were alternating horizontal stripes on the tail fin and rudder - three red and three white."

I see that it had to have a red nose, but here the description of the 'cowling' could be intended as 'front of the cowling'.
The problem is that the light part of cowling that we see on this photo can't be red, when compared to the red stars and to the red parts of the emblem that seem black on the photo.
The picker of Photoshop suggests that the darkness of the panel on the side of the cowling is fully comparable to that of the white outline of the star and of the white part of the number. So, I think that the white band on the rear fuselage was deleted from there and moved on the side of the cowling.
I suppose that the front and the spinner were red.
It could be that the cowling was fully red when there was still a white band on the fuselage, then it changed for some reason.
Any ideas on this?

Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: La's of 790 IAP
Post by: barneybolac on February 23, 2017, 07:42:47 PM
Stumbled across these two aircraft with some interesting markings. Any more known about these espically the La-7 with the badge nose art what is that emblem?

http://aviadejavu.ru/Site/Arts/Art4628.htm



(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/LA%205%207%20Russian/4-2_zpstwuptqd1.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/LA%205%207%20Russian/4-2_zpstwuptqd1.jpg.html)

Also while at it this La-7 anymore known about it?



I translated the information from the link above on the LA-7 the aircraft was #27.

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/LA%205%207%20Russian/Untitled%2027_zpsye06lw4d.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/LA%205%207%20Russian/Untitled%2027_zpsye06lw4d.jpg.html)


Title: Re: La's of 790 IAP
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on February 23, 2017, 10:16:36 PM
Good, thank you. I made some corrections to my previous drawing, adding the thin white lines on the tail. Besides I changed the size of stars and the font of numbers to make them more typical of z.381, because 3-guns La-7s were built all there. I'll upload it within few days.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: La's of 790 IAP
Post by: barneybolac on May 04, 2017, 09:19:09 AM
Some more info in this link.

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=ru&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fsoviet-aces-1936-53.ru%2Fabc%2Fs%2Fsannikov.htm&edit-text=