Title: Tu-2 profile drawings Post by: 66misos on September 28, 2015, 05:34:43 PM Hi,
here I drew profile of the Tu-2 bomber: (http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1129317) It is based on the photos from Massimo's Mig3 pages: (http://www.mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/tu-2/tu-2camo/tu2.jpg) and (http://www.mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/tu-2/tu-2camo/tu2a.jpg) The first round of the corrections (upper profile of the nose and upper profile of canopy) is already behind. However, it is really challenge to find reliable drawing and detailed photo, especially from the war-time era. Regards, 66misos Title: Re: Tu-2 profile drawings Post by: Massimo Tessitori on September 28, 2015, 09:55:56 PM Hi Misos,
please check the rudder and stabilizers, they were of two different height according to the version. The shape of the glazing and struts doesn't seem convincing too. The rear upper part of the nacelle looks angular on the photo. The intake over the engine cowlings looks smaller on photos. Regards Massimo Title: Re: Tu-2 profile drawings Post by: 66misos on September 29, 2015, 09:53:04 AM Hi Massimo,
do you have, please, reliable drawing that shows differeces between "early" and "late" type of vertical stabilizer&rudder? Landing wheel struts/legs, same as windshield, are made according to the photos from late Tu-2 walkaround at Monino http://sovietwarplanes.com/board/index.php?topic=1677.0 (http://sovietwarplanes.com/board/index.php?topic=1677.0) (http://www.clubhyper.com/reference/p7hg_img_21/fullsize/Tu2Ext_fs.jpg) "The rear upper part of the nacelle looks angular on the photo." (http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/photos/9/9/3/1414399.jpg) http://www.tupolev.ru/en/aircrafts/ant-58_(tu-2) (http://www.tupolev.ru/en/aircrafts/ant-58_(tu-2)): Aircraft 60 (103В) (http://www.tupolev.ru/files/core/istoria/samolety/ant-58/Tu-2_02.jpg) Thank you in advance. Regards, 66misos Title: Re: Tu-2 profile drawings Post by: warhawk on September 29, 2015, 11:44:21 AM Excellent job on tackling the Tu-2 and it's elusive cammo schemes!
I hope You will extend the range of profiles to late-war machines :) Title: Re: Tu-2 profile drawings Post by: Johann on September 29, 2015, 01:25:06 PM Hi Misos, please check the rudder and stabilizers, they were of two different height according to the version. The shape of the glazing and struts doesn't seem convincing too. The rear upper part of the nacelle looks angular on the photo. The intake over the engine cowlings looks smaller on photos. Regards Massimo This is not entirely true. Early and late editions of the Tu-2 have the same height of the keel. A "high" keel was only on the Tu-2D (of 4 aircraft) The project Tu2D were taken from the number of airplanes 7-Series aircraft "713", "714", "716" and "718" sent to Moscow, where he underwent a modification at the factory number 156 in long-range bombers. Title: Re: Tu-2 profile drawings Post by: Massimo Tessitori on September 29, 2015, 01:45:08 PM Hi Misos,
about the stabilizer, it looks that the low tail was characteristic of the prototypes. seems that the plane you're drawn is 100716 at nii vvs in 1943, it was born with low tail and then extended upwards; th modification is vaguely visible on the photo with a lighter crescent moon part on its front and top. I've sent some scans from Airwar, it should be a copy of Polish Loctnicze. I can't assure that they are perfect, but show some high and low tails. I see that the corner of the nacelle is a bit rounded. Probably the idea of angular is due to painting. The Chinese plane looks to lack of a nearly horizontal strut on the side, visible on the other photo. The look of the part should be a rounded frame around the rear glass, plus two nearly horizontal struts connecting it to the vertical one. Regards Massimo Title: Re: Tu-2 profile drawings Post by: Johann on September 29, 2015, 02:51:30 PM Massimo
Low keel was only "103У" and "103B" Tu 2 throughout the war had a standard keel unchanged Besides 4 Tу 2Д And if you are talking about the difference in the keel (photo below), then it is a sample of the post-war 1946 (http://s9.postimg.org/gi0e6bf71/image.png) Title: Re: Tu-2 profile drawings Post by: Massimo Tessitori on September 30, 2015, 07:25:40 AM Hi Johann and Misos,
according to Aviakollectsia, 1(2) 2008, Tu-2 part 1, this plane was seen with its tail in two different configurations. (http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/tu-2/100716.jpg) Regards Massimo Title: Re: Tu-2 profile drawings Post by: Johann on September 30, 2015, 08:17:12 AM Hmm ... I would not have believed this book. The documents concerning the order and the whole set of production equipment and devices,
It works according to the list compiled by Ch. technologist plant No.156. Item 7 Plumage. The stabilizer and the elevators are made for the serial car on the plane 103U, with the lifting mechanism, unchanged. (!) On an experimental Tu-2 №100716 keel was made of this Directive. If you read this book, there is very detail the process of operational development of the aircraft just an example board №100716 But (!) Not a single word about the capacity of the keel. I know of no picture TU-2 graft of keels, except of experimental platform "713", "714", "716" and "718", and after the war samples. Yes, and the drawings in this book does not inspire confidence. Especially hereinafter have upomenaniya of Tu-2 №100716, given to the state of the Tu-2S Ie from production aircraft it is no different. And again, all the photographs №100716 seen snandartnye keels. From where the author took about graft keel mystery. (and drawing it is not very convincing) Title: Re: Tu-2 profile drawings Post by: Johann on September 30, 2015, 08:29:45 AM Here are the photos of the Tu-2 (103) №100716 made at different times, but not on the same keel is not high ...
(http://www.airwar.ru/image/idop/bww2/tu2-716/tu2-716-4.jpg) (http://www.airwar.ru/image/idop/bww2/tu2-716/tu2-716-2.jpg) (http://www.airwar.ru/image/idop/bww2/tu2-716/tu2-716-1.jpg) (http://www.airwar.ru/image/idop/bww2/tu2-716/tu2-716-5.jpg) (http://coollib.com/i/76/269776/pic_19.jpg) Title: Re: Tu-2 profile drawings Post by: Johann on September 30, 2015, 08:35:32 AM But the high keel. But I repeat - they appeared only in 1946
(http://coollib.com/i/76/269776/pic_33.jpg) Title: Re: Tu-2 profile drawings Post by: Massimo Tessitori on September 30, 2015, 09:12:33 AM Hi,
now I am confused. The standard keel is of high or low type? Nearly all the drawings of Aviakollectsia show an high type on profiles, and low type only on prototypes and maybe on very early planes, Is the keel of Tu-2D an even taller one? Regards Massimo Title: Re: Tu-2 profile drawings Post by: Johann on September 30, 2015, 09:54:28 AM Все кили Ту-2 периуда 2 мировой имели стандартный киль без изменений с тип 103U до последующих модификаций. Исключения Ту-2Д (всего 4 самолета) А вот Ту-2 образца 1946 года имели высокий киль.
1- прототип 2- Ту-2 серийный 3- Ту-2Д 4- Ту-2 обр 1946 года (http://s8.postimg.org/ae5osbc79/image.jpg) Title: Re: Tu-2 profile drawings Post by: Johann on September 30, 2015, 10:00:05 AM Reply #6 on: September 29, 2015
I do knowingly led the comparison. 1 and 2 of the photo - matching angle 98% and the size of the image too. Visible differences between the military and post-war model. A photo 3 just discussed in the first post plane. Angle slightly disrupted but clearly videm keel that is the same as on the production aircraft. Title: Re: Tu-2 profile drawings Post by: 66misos on September 30, 2015, 10:26:32 AM Hi All,
thanks a lot for your imputs. I wonder how many differences there is. My understanding is that (in some extent) size/shape of the vertical stabilizers were same (pict 3 above). And in 1946 it was increased (pict 4 above). According to those drawing the vertical stabilizer in my profile should be OK. It looks like I have to make another war-time and after-war profiles really fast to have a time to discus/correct them. Thank you agan. Regards, 66misos Title: Re: Tu-2 profile drawings Post by: barneybolac on September 30, 2015, 03:31:14 PM This video is about as good as it gets for a WWII aircraft.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWWfam0tw_Y Title: Re: Tu-2 profile drawings Post by: 66misos on September 30, 2015, 06:15:11 PM Hi,
black-green version after another corrections (hope already finished): (http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1129835) This 3-color version EDIT - corrected camouflage on the nose: (http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1129946) should be this plane: (http://www.mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/tu-2/tu-2camo/n8g.jpg) (http://www.mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/tu-2/tu-2camo/tu2inflight6.jpg) (http://www.mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/tu-2/tu-2camo/tu2n6above.jpg) Regards, 66misos Title: Re: Tu-2 profile drawings Post by: Massimo Tessitori on October 01, 2015, 05:56:07 AM Hi Misos,
I think that the nose of the second plane should be light brown, regardless of the factory template. Looks common between Tu-2s. Regards Massimo Title: Re: Tu-2 profile drawings Post by: 66misos on October 01, 2015, 08:40:48 AM Hi Massimo,
may be yes, but I do not see demarcation line between respective light brown and dark (grey) which starts in the middle of the cockpit and continues to the front. There are strong light reflections on the upper nose. Regards, 66misos Title: Re: Tu-2 profile drawings Post by: Johann on October 01, 2015, 09:48:18 AM I think that the nose of the second plane should be light brown, I think so too. And the dividing line color of the cockpit in the picture is shifted further (http://s17.postimg.org/qd56d5rtb/image.jpg) Title: Re: Tu-2 profile drawings Post by: 66misos on October 01, 2015, 11:14:18 AM Hi,
3-color camo version corrected on the nose according to your inputs - see my Reply #16 above. Thank you. Regards, 66misos Title: Re: Tu-2 profile drawings Post by: 66misos on October 02, 2015, 06:33:04 PM Hi,
here is the next one: EDIT: see my post at http://sovietwarplanes.com/board/index.php?topic=2112.msg17734#msg17734 (http://sovietwarplanes.com/board/index.php?topic=2112.msg17734#msg17734) It should be this plane: (http://www.mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/tu-2/tu-2camo/tu2fff.jpg) Description from Massimo's Mig3 page: "This plane, delivered with the camouflage during the war, had its upper surfaces repainted in solid green after the war's end." And I would add that according to the strongly weathered star on the vertical stabilizer they repainted only originally dark grey and light brown areas. Original green color they kept as it was. Plus, it seems they added red star on the rear fuselage - at least I see there something what could be top tip of the star. Similiarly to this plane: (https://im2-tub-ru.yandex.net/i?id=f0f6d704dc3cfbc332874d79332c4650&n=33&h=190&w=405) Best regards, 66misos Title: Re: Tu-2 profile drawings Post by: Massimo Tessitori on October 02, 2015, 07:40:45 PM Hi Misos,
interesting interpretation, about the repainting of brown and grey areas only. The rectangular light on the end of the fuselage is missing. Regards Massimo Title: Re: Tu-2 profile drawings Post by: Johann on October 03, 2015, 06:11:45 AM Such an option is not interesting?
camouflage pattern on it AMT-11 AMT-12 the inscription on the starboard side, on the left is only the inscription Москва (http://retrovtap.ru/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B0%D1%80%D1%88%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%B0-%D0%9A%D0%B0%D0%B1%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%B4%D0%B8%D0%BD-%D0%92%D0%B0%D1%81%D0%B8%D0%BB%D0%B8%D0%B9.-%D0%BE.%D0%A1%D0%B0%D1%85%D0%B0%D0%BB%D0%B8%D0%BD.-%D0%BD%D0%BE%D1%8F%D0%B1%D1%80%D1%8C-1945%D0%B3.jpg) (http://retrovtap.ru/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/345-%D0%B1%D0%B0%D0%BF-6-%D0%B4%D0%B1%D0%B0%D0%BF.-%D0%BE.%D0%A1%D0%B0%D1%85%D0%B0%D0%BB%D0%B8%D0%BD-1945..jpg) (http://retrovtap.ru/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/%D0%9A_%D0%BD-%D0%A0%D0%BE%D0%BC%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B2-%D0%90%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%BA%D1%81%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B4%D1%80-%D0%92%D0%B0%D1%81%D0%B8%D0%BB%D1%8C%D0%B5%D0%B2%D0%B8%D1%87.-%D0%BE.%D0%A1%D0%B0%D1%85%D0%B0%D0%BB%D0%B8%D0%BD.-1945.jpg) (http://retrovtap.ru/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/%D0%A1%D0%B0%D1%85%D0%B0%D0%BB%D0%B8%D0%BD.-1946.%D0%A7%D1%83%D0%B2%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B2-%D1%83-%D0%A2%D1%83-2-345-%D0%B1%D0%B0%D0%BF.jpg) (http://retrovtap.ru/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/%D0%9F%D0%BE%D0%B3%D0%BE%D0%B4%D0%B8%D0%BD-%D0%90.%D0%98.-%D0%BE.%D0%A1%D0%B0%D1%85%D0%B0%D0%BB%D0%B8%D0%BD.-1945-%D0%B3.jpg) Title: Re: Tu-2 profile drawings Post by: Massimo Tessitori on October 03, 2015, 07:06:16 AM Hi Johann,
are you sure that this plane was grey? I know that it was represented in this way on Aviakollectsia's profiles, but I have many doubts that this is reliable. I made some researches and what I have found is published here: http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/tu-2/tu-2camo/tu-2camo.htm (http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/tu-2/tu-2camo/tu-2camo.htm). Unfortunately it's rather unconclusive, but plane 32 of the same unit shows clearly two dark shades on the rudder that are compatible with green/grey/brown factory template, while the upper surface of wings of this and of of many planes seems strangely light as if it was all brown; more probably, it's in faded 3-colors camo, while only the rear fuselage and tail were freshly repainted because more accessible. Of course, it's impossible to deduct colors from a bw photo, but the ministerial template of 1945, with amt-11 and 12, is not shown in any of the known photos. If factories turned to grey camo in 1945, they should have built hundreds of planes with that painting. Besides it's known that postwar-built Tu-2s and even Tu-14 had the 3 shades camouflage made in glossy colors. Regards Massimo Title: Re: Tu-2 profile drawings Post by: Johann on October 03, 2015, 08:20:55 AM Hi Massimo - For the same publication, can be supplemented. The inscription on the starboard side
Moscow From the workers of the Kiev region Москва От трудящихся Киевского района As for the color, I think I stepped on a rake tezhe that Кондратьев (Kondratiev). Based same research Вахламова (Vahlamova) gray-gray camouflage on this machine could not be. It was introduced in the 45 and 44. The photo was taken in I offer my apologies for inaccuracy. Title: Re: Tu-2 profile drawings Post by: 66misos on October 03, 2015, 11:42:48 AM Hi,
@Massimo, The rectangular light on the end of the fuselage is added, see pict above. Thanks for note. @Johann, It is quite time consuming to trace all that text (Moskva, ot...) and I have only limited time now. So may be latter. EDIT: Here are two profiles of Hungarian Tu-2 from the fifties from the Russian forums, I do not know how they are reliable. (http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1130514) (http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1130515) According to the description is had standard VVS painting and marking, only stars seems to be modified. Regards, 66misos Title: Re: Tu-2 profile drawings Post by: Massimo Tessitori on October 03, 2015, 02:32:26 PM Hi Johann,
I hoped that you have some sure information on grey Tu-2s. Regards Massimo Title: Re: Tu-2 profile drawings Post by: Johann on October 03, 2015, 05:23:48 PM Unfortunately, the bombers are not my element.
Title: Re: Tu-2 profile drawings Post by: Ohotnyik on October 04, 2015, 07:47:59 AM Hello Missos!
Sadly there are only a few picture about the Hungarian TU-2 "T?zok". You can find some here: http://www.avia-info.hu/talalat.php?GTA=t799 (http://www.avia-info.hu/talalat.php?GTA=t799) They were in use only a short time period. They had several versions, and repaired war demages could be found on them. What is impotant that the Hungarian insignia is white in a red star, and within the white there is a green disc according to the national colours. (http://www.eliteday.com/blueprint/repules/magyar/jelzesek/h-felsjel.jpg) Title: Re: Tu-2 profile drawings Post by: 66misos on October 04, 2015, 08:32:15 AM Hi,
@Massimo, I browsed Google and Rusdian Yandex, but I cannot find any photo of grey-grey camo. I found Tu-2T only in standard 3-color camo. @Ochotnik, thank you for link. The first one, Tu-2 "10", looks nice with Hungarian tricolore (red-white-green) on the spinner. What color is on the tip of the spinner - red or green? And, of course, I will correct the stars - little green circle in the middle and white outline. Regards, 66misos Title: Re: Tu-2 profile drawings Post by: Ohotnyik on October 04, 2015, 05:10:37 PM Hello Missos!
I am not sure that at the spinner had the national colours, but if it was than the first was red. Istv Title: Re: Tu-2 profile drawings Post by: 66misos on October 04, 2015, 10:11:50 PM Hi,
here are photos of Hungarian Tu-2 from the link provided by Ochotnik: (http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1131239) We can see that on the Russian profiles above is except incorrect Hungarian marking also incorrect font of "53". (http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1131240) I finally decided for "10" - it has after-war four-blades propeller, very probably one big circular window on the rear fuselage and (IMHO) nice tricolora on the spinner: (http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1131241) (http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1131800) Regards, 66misos Title: Re: Tu-2 profile drawings Post by: Massimo Tessitori on October 05, 2015, 06:25:21 AM Hi Misos,
the photo seems to show plane 10 without defensive armament. The border between green and blue should be a bit revised on the nacelle, both forward and behind the wing. I would move the 10 a bit backwards. Regards Massimo Title: Re: Tu-2 profile drawings Post by: 66misos on October 05, 2015, 11:41:36 AM Hi Massimo,
IMHO it has armament. Rear top gun cover is open and IMHO gun is only turned tu side, but there is visible something. I correcced border line between green and blue color on both nacelle and rear fuselage, plus "10" is moved a bit backwards - see picture above. Thanks for remarks. Let's continue with the Bulgarian Tu-2: (http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1131799) Photos of the original: (http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1131379) (http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1131380) And photo of the description table from the museum in Bulgaria where this plane is displayed: (http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1131381) Regards, 66misos Title: Re: Tu-2 profile drawings Post by: Massimo Tessitori on October 05, 2015, 08:07:57 PM Hi Misos,
seems that the trim tab was present on the right rudder only. I would lift a bit the straight part of the border between green and blue on the fuselage. Regards Massimo Title: Re: Tu-2 profile drawings Post by: 66misos on October 05, 2015, 08:29:36 PM Hi Massimo,
I will try it tomorrow. That trim tam - Oh s..t! >:( Seems I should correct it on all other profiles.... :'( In the meantime here is the last one from today - Tu-2 from Poland: (http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1139337) Here is original: (http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1131491) And here seems to be the same plane but repainted: (http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1131493) Here seems to be visible bottom of the tail in the different color (red like painted on other profiles?): (http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1131492) Regards, 66misos Title: Re: Tu-2 profile drawings Post by: Massimo Tessitori on October 06, 2015, 06:55:30 AM Hi Misos,
I think that, IF the bottom of the tail was really red, it should be higher on the rudder than on the stabilizer. On the inner side, the lower part was certainly light blue. I wonder if the right and left rudders are interchangeable. The number 8 on the photos has changed both position and size, the drawing shows the size of the bigger one in the position of the smaller one. The trasparent nail of the gunner's canopy looks too long and straight. Regards Massimo Title: Re: Tu-2 profile drawings Post by: 66misos on October 06, 2015, 11:46:51 PM Hi Massimo,
I correct tails on all profiles. Bulagrian and Hungarian are ready, same as Poland. I made also some changes according to your comments. Only red bottom on the Polish Tu-2 I kept in the same line - see pictures above. And in the meantime here is Tu-2 from North Korea: (http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1131796) (http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1131797) Regards, 66misos Title: Re: Tu-2 profile drawings Post by: 66misos on October 07, 2015, 04:49:19 PM Hi,
here are last two Tu-2 from Asia: China: (http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1139338) Original: (http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1131900) and other planes: (http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1131904) (http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1131905) (http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1131906) Indonesia, originally chinese plane, only marking and btail number is repainted: (http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1139339) No good photo found, only this one with 4-blades propeller: (http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1131907) So I took some inspiration from this profile (not very correct) and from chineese plane above: (http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1131908) Regards, 66misos Title: Re: Tu-2 profile drawings Post by: Massimo Tessitori on October 07, 2015, 07:51:57 PM Hi Misos,
interesting profiles. I think that the position of the rear gun should be modified, the outline of the opening appears curve in profile on its rear, not straight. Regards Massimo Title: Re: Tu-2 profile drawings Post by: 66misos on October 08, 2015, 10:21:24 AM Hi Massimo,
Thanks for comment. You are right, on some photos from angle (perspective) it looks like curve. But on other photos not. It seems there were several modifications even in this part of the plane. Plus even straight line on the oval object (like fuselage) looks like curve from angle. However, my profiles are strict side view without applying perspective. So I decided to let it as is now unless I found good line drawing of this part of Tu-2. Regards, 66misos Title: Re: Tu-2 profile drawings Post by: 66misos on October 08, 2015, 04:16:11 PM Hi,
in the meantime I started work on the view from the top: (http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1132158) Drawing is still not finished, only black and green areas are estimated according to this photos: (http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1132159) Regards, 66misos Title: Re: Tu-2 profile drawings Post by: Massimo Tessitori on October 09, 2015, 07:37:03 AM Hi Misos,
it looks that this is the only photo where the camo of the wings can be seen clearly. Regards Massimo Title: Re: Tu-2 profile drawings Post by: 66misos on October 09, 2015, 12:00:38 PM Hi Massimo,
here is another picture of black-green top side: (http://russianhistoryblog.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/tu-2.jpg) When comparing with the scheme in the post above, it seems to have exchanged black and green areas. Several day ago I posted request at VIF about grey-grey camo on Tu-2 and whether Xuntong grey-grey Tu-2 is authentic or fiction: (http://www.cybermodeler.com/hobby/kits/xun/images/xun_48002_title.jpg) Surprisingly there is no response untill now. However, here is photo of Tu-2T with the torpedos under wings: (http://www.airwar.ru/image/idop/sea/tu2t/tu2t-2.jpg) (http://www.airwar.ru/image/idop/sea/tu2t/tu2t-4.jpg) and it quite nicely fits to this factory 3-color scheme: (http://www.mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/colors/1943-45-bombers/tem-tu2-43r.jpg) Regards, 66misos Title: Re: Tu-2 profile drawings Post by: Massimo Tessitori on October 09, 2015, 02:23:39 PM Hi Misos,
yes, there is this one but it's too vague. This Tu-2T is the only one I know to fit well the factory drawing. Other photos seem to show an anomalous extension of light areas over the wings. Regards Massimo Title: Re: Tu-2 profile drawings Post by: 66misos on October 10, 2015, 11:40:28 AM Hi,
here are top surfaces: (http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1133932) of this plane: (http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1129835) Black and green areas are drawn according to the NKAP scheme from June 1941: (http://www.mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/colors/1941-43/template-twin.jpg) and modified according to the photos of the actual plane at http://sovietwarplanes.com/board/index.php?topic=2112.0 (http://sovietwarplanes.com/board/index.php?topic=2112.0) EDIT: Bottom view: (http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1133931) Regards, 66misos Title: Re: Tu-2 profile drawings Post by: 66misos on October 10, 2015, 08:13:31 PM Hi,
here is the torpedo version from my Reply #44 http://sovietwarplanes.com/board/index.php?topic=2112.msg17683#msg17683 (http://sovietwarplanes.com/board/index.php?topic=2112.msg17683#msg17683) which nicely fits (one of) NKAP scheme from 1943 for two-engines bombers: EDIT: (http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1133676) (http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1133704) (http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1133906) Regards, 66misos Title: Re: Tu-2 profile drawings Post by: Massimo Tessitori on October 10, 2015, 09:02:47 PM Hi Misos,
looks good. Regards Massimo Title: Re: Tu-2 profile drawings Post by: 66misos on October 12, 2015, 08:04:51 PM Hi Massimo,
thank you for kind words. :) I still corrected & added some details on Top view, plus I added two bottom views - standard and torpedo version - see my posts above. So, this serie is finished now. Regards, 66misos PS: Thanks all for comments and help. Title: Re: Tu-2 profile drawings Post by: Massimo Tessitori on October 13, 2015, 06:11:24 AM Hi Misos, you're welcome as usual. You did a good work. It would be interesting to develop it for the site some day.
Regards Massimo Title: Re: Tu-2 profile drawings Post by: 66misos on October 13, 2015, 05:56:30 PM Hi Massimo,
thanks. :) Probably I will do sometime in the future, I have to focus on the other things now. In the meantime another nice picture showing upper black-green surfaces - my profile fits it quite well: (http://www.airwar.ru/image/idop/bww2/tu2/tu2-3.jpg) Regards, 66misos Title: Re: Tu-2 profile drawings Post by: Massimo Tessitori on October 13, 2015, 07:17:41 PM Hi Misos,
good indeed. Where is it from? Regards Massimo Title: Re: Tu-2 profile drawings Post by: learstang on October 13, 2015, 07:21:13 PM Excellent work on the profiles, 66misos! Just to let everyone know, 66misos had done these beautiful profiles for a book I'm finishing up on the Tu-2 for the same publisher who printed my Il-2 book, Fonthill Media. The Tu-2 book should be available some time next year (2016). And don't forget my Il-2 book, available at fine stores everywhere (okay, that was a shameless plug).
Best Regards, Jason Title: Re: Tu-2 profile drawings Post by: 66misos on October 13, 2015, 10:01:00 PM Hi,
@Massimo, I do not know :-[ I just fast browse Google and/or Yandex.ru and save&post here when found something interesting. @Jason, I am really glad you like them. Thanks for appreciation. :) Regards, 66misos Title: Re: Tu-2 profile drawings Post by: Massimo Tessitori on October 14, 2015, 07:06:03 AM Hi,
I don't know if it's representative, but I see that this machine has trim tabs on both the ruddes, not protruding. Regards Massimo Title: Re: Tu-2 profile drawings Post by: 66misos on October 15, 2015, 11:05:47 AM Hi,
size comparison of Tu-2 and Pe-2: (http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1134475) Regards, 66misos Title: Re: Tu-2 profile drawings Post by: KL on October 17, 2015, 08:19:52 AM Hi Misos/Jason,
Pe-2 and Tu-2 had very different purpose and origin, so the difference in size isn't surprising: Pe-2 was developed from a twin engine high altitude fighter prototype, it was roughly the size of Me-110. Pe-2 was a "front bomber" meaning short range and modest bomb load; in western air forces such a plane would be classified as a light bomber. Tu-2 was a multi-purpose medium bomber. It was similar size as Junkers Ju-88. IMHO, for more effective size comparison Tu-2 and Pe-2 profiles should be drawn horizontal, "in flight" with their longitudinal axis aligned. In plan view you should definitively align fuselage axis of both planes too. It would be interesting to see size comparison of Tu-2 and Ju-88... Regards, KL Title: Re: Tu-2 profile drawings Post by: 66misos on October 18, 2015, 10:31:37 AM Hi KL,
so one for you - comparison of Tu-2 and Ju-88G ;) May be is is not fully exact, but it gives at least idea: (http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1135236) Regrads, 66misos Title: Re: Tu-2 profile drawings Post by: 66misos on October 23, 2015, 12:19:37 PM Hi,
here is updated picture of the after-the-war VVS Tu-2: (http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1136686) Photos and info from scalemodels.ru and discussed also at modelforum.cz show that it is originally "32 Moskva": (http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1135710) repainted overall green on topside and ended in Kharkov military school in mid fifties: (http://www.mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/tu-2/tu-2camo/tu2fff.jpg) (http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1135711) (http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1134625) Regards, 66misos Title: Re: Tu-2 profile drawings Post by: Massimo Tessitori on October 24, 2015, 06:57:28 AM Hi Misos,
good work. I wonder why the inner face of the stabilizer is shining, perhaps it was retouched with fresh paint. Regards Massimo Title: Re: Tu-2 profile drawings Post by: 66misos on October 28, 2015, 01:13:24 PM Hi,
here is Tu-2P in grey-grey camo: (http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1138732) (http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1138376) According to the discussion at http://sovietwarplanes.com/board/index.php?topic=2022.0 (http://sovietwarplanes.com/board/index.php?topic=2022.0) it should/could be this plane: (http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Tu%202/Untitled_zps6sgrway4.jpg) (http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Tu%202/14-1_zpsbumyjiw1.jpg) (http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Tu%202/14-2_zpsitoghaya.jpg) AMt-11/12 areas are estimated according to the photos above and oficial scheme from january 1945: (http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Tu%202/vvs%20colour_zpsxcmczsb5.jpg) Regards, 66misos Title: Re: Tu-2 profile drawings Post by: Massimo Tessitori on October 28, 2015, 02:21:03 PM Hi Misos,
nice artwork, but I can't see anything that suggests that plane 4 has grey/grey painting. For example, I think to see a light band on the rear of the engine cowling, not on the front. Not even the contrast on the photos is convincing for a grey/grey plane, it doesn't seem to that seen on photos of Yaks and Lavochkins. I would check again the rear canopy, its shape doest't seem as that of the photo. Regards Massimo Title: Re: Tu-2 profile drawings Post by: 66misos on October 28, 2015, 02:57:08 PM Hi Massimo,
you are right, the contrast between "possible" AMT-11 and AMT-12 on that TU-2P photo is very low, it is usually more evident on La and Yak photos, but there are also examples with the similar contrast: (http://airfield.narod.ru/yak/yak-9/color2/photo_yak-9d_11-1.jpg) (http://www.ww2incolor.com/d/210919-4/La5-5s) (http://www.gonzoaviation.com/AwEshop2UserFiles/image/Gallery/260/la_5fn_20130921_013731348.jpg) I know, it is not proof, but... Which rear canopy do you mean, please, the rear part of the front canopy or rear upper gunner? Regards, 66misos Title: Re: Tu-2 profile drawings Post by: Massimo Tessitori on October 28, 2015, 06:10:08 PM Hi Misos,
I mean the fingernail-like trasparent roof over the rear gunner's pocition. The upper profile should be curved downwards, and the upper profile of the cut should be horizontal. The photo shows this well. Regards Massimo Title: Re: Tu-2 profile drawings Post by: 66misos on October 29, 2015, 05:05:14 PM Hi Massimo,
I corrected trasparent roof over the rear gunner according to the photos: (http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1138733) added some antena or probe on the nose, slightly changed dark grey area on the engine gondola and replaced my picture above. Thanks for comment. Regards, 66misos Title: Re: Tu-2 profile drawings Post by: Massimo Tessitori on October 29, 2015, 07:01:45 PM Hi Misos,
it's much better now. Regards Massimo Title: Re: Tu-2 profile drawings Post by: Massimo Tessitori on October 30, 2015, 06:20:39 AM Hi Misos,
Vitaliy has suggested that there is a face painted on the engine ring, including a smiling mouth as that of emoticons. Regards Massimo Title: Re: Tu-2 profile drawings Post by: 66misos on November 01, 2015, 03:07:17 PM ...face painted on the engine ring, including a smiling mouth as that of emoticons... Good idea :) AFAIK it would be very unusual sence of humor in VVS.Here is a top view of the grey-grey "White 4" from my previous post: (http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1139590). AMT-11/AMT-12 areas are made according to the scheme for Pe-2 from January 1945. I know it is more-less What-if for this particular aircraft, but at least is nicely shows grey-grey scheme ;) Here at http://www.bellabs.ru/51/Interview/Zajfman-5.html (http://www.bellabs.ru/51/Interview/Zajfman-5.html) I have found nice photos of overall light grey Tu-2 from 1 GMTAP, September 1948: (http://www.bellabs.ru/51/Photos/1GMTAP-1948_Zajfman_Tu-2.jpg) Propeller spinners had different color, probably red. This is another plane, or at least another pilot from the same unit: (http://www.bellabs.ru/51/Photos/1GMTAP-1948_Denisov_2.jpg) Again overall light grey, board number probably red "4". Similar light grey Tu-2 is visible also on this photo: (http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1139580) Overall light grey paint reminds me this Tu-2D (65), also a couple of years after the war: (http://s4.postimg.org/gdyp3tgtp/1_100_Tu55.jpg) Could it be gloss light grey-blue A-36g, used for overall painting on La-9/11/15/17, Yak-9P? Regards, 66misos Title: Re: Tu-2 profile drawings Post by: Massimo Tessitori on November 01, 2015, 03:36:16 PM Hi Misos,
for what I see on the photo, this decoration was on the left engine only. I wonder if they could have used red paint for the eyes and mouth. The overall light grey plane is interesting, I vote for A-36g. Regards Massimo Title: Re: Tu-2 profile drawings Post by: 66misos on November 01, 2015, 04:03:19 PM Hi Massimo,
all photos show complete front part only of the left gondola, the right one is not visible. So I do not know. Anyhow, something like this? EDIT Nov 2, 2015: (http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1139973) Regards, 66misos Title: Re: Tu-2 profile drawings Post by: Massimo Tessitori on November 01, 2015, 05:41:13 PM Hi Misos,
I'm not sure, but I think not to see the mouth on the other engine, or to see something much thinner. Besides I think that the eyes were black. Regards Massimo Title: Re: Tu-2 profile drawings Post by: 66misos on November 02, 2015, 07:01:07 PM Hi Massimo,
"smiling face" is corrected. Here is next one - bluegrey (A-36g) Tu-2 from 1948 according to the photos above: (http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1140088) Do you know, when they in VVS after the WWII started to paint again red stars on the upper wings? Regards, 66misos Title: Re: Tu-2 profile drawings Post by: Massimo Tessitori on November 02, 2015, 09:57:01 PM Hi Misos,
nice profile. In 1945-1950 there was much confusion on the position of the stars. I think that the standard on 6 positions (tail, upper and lower surface of wings) was established around 1950. I suppose that this Tu-2 hadn't stars on the wing upper surface. Regards Massimo Title: Re: Tu-2 profile drawings Post by: KL on November 03, 2015, 06:57:38 AM In 1945-1950 there was much confusion on the position of the stars. I think that the standard on 6 positions (tail, upper and lower surface of wings) was established around 1950. I suppose that this Tu-2 hadn't stars on the wing upper surface. Various 1941-45 disruptive camouflage schemes developed for VVS combat planes didn't have stars on upper wing - that is the reason why wartime VVS planes didn't have stars on upper wing surfaces. As soon as disruptive camouflage disappeared from VVS planes, stars reappeared on wing tops... IMHO, all postwar VVS planes had stars on upper wing surfaces. Regards, KL Title: Re: Tu-2 profile drawings Post by: 66misos on November 03, 2015, 11:12:50 AM Hi,
...As soon as disruptive camouflage disappeared from VVS planes, stars reappeared on wing tops... IMHO, all postwar VVS planes had stars on upper wing surfaces... I do not think so. Here are some examples of the after-war VVS planes in the single color paint scheme without red stars on the upper wings: I-250, October 1945: (https://www.litmir.co/BookBinary/264759/1443096571/i_013.jpg) (https://www.litmir.co/BookBinary/264759/1443096571/i_014.jpg) Tu-8, late fourties: (http://img0.liveinternet.ru/images/attach/c/11/114/916/114916640_1947tu84.jpg) Yak-15, 1947 (https://www.litmir.co/BookBinary/264759/1443096572/i_032.jpg) (https://www.litmir.co/BookBinary/264759/1443096572/i_033.jpg) MiG-9, 1947: (https://www.litmir.co/BookBinary/264759/1443096572/i_059.jpg) Yak-200, 1952-3 (light blue-grey A-36g?): (http://ram-home.com/ram-old/yak-200-kr1.jpg) Il-28, in overall silver painting, the red stars are already on the upper wing: (http://photo.qip.ru/photo/morlet/2300879/xlarge/40329342.jpg) Regards, 66misos Title: Re: Tu-2 profile drawings Post by: 66misos on November 03, 2015, 12:47:10 PM Hi,
here are another photos from 1 gmtap: (http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1140132) (http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1140142) (http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1140284) So here I made a sister to "red 4" according to the photo above: (http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1140290) Regards, 66misos Title: Re: Tu-2 profile drawings Post by: Massimo Tessitori on November 03, 2015, 01:23:24 PM Hi Misos,
interesting images. I see some red trims on horizontal surfaces too. Regards Massimo Title: Re: Tu-2 profile drawings Post by: 66misos on November 03, 2015, 06:14:26 PM Hi Massimo,
yes, I think so - one on the right wing and two on the both horizontal stabilizers. Here is another top view: (http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1141665) It should be this plane: (http://www.mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/tu-2/tu-2camo/n8g.jpg) (http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1129946) The upper surface painting looks like modification of this scheme: (http://www.mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/tu-2/tu-2camo/tu-2%20template8.jpg) Dark grey and green areas on the wings are repainted with the fresh light brown - a bit darker than weathered original light brown. Regards, 66misos Title: Re: Tu-2 profile drawings Post by: Massimo Tessitori on November 03, 2015, 07:05:33 PM Hi Misos, yes, it seems so... but I wonder why they should put all that brown on the wings.
Regards Massimo Title: Re: Tu-2 profile drawings Post by: 66misos on November 03, 2015, 10:57:56 PM Hi Massimo,
I also do not understand it. That time, during VVS aerial superiority, fighters abandoned masking against ground (black-green) but were masked against far horisont, e.g. grey-bluegrey colors. Applying so big areas of the light brown, it looks like flying low above desert or dry grassland. And similar repainting with some light color was done also on some Pe-2. ??? I would prefer light bluegrey AMT-11 or its oil equivalent, but this color does not look usually co bright on the photos. Regards, 66misos Title: Re: Tu-2 profile drawings Post by: 66misos on November 04, 2015, 11:28:28 AM Hi,
so here it is for comparison - the same "white 6", but repainted with blue-grey AMT-11, not with light brown: EDIT: Deleted as apparently incorrect, see color photo in the post bellow. Regards, 66misos Title: Re: Tu-2 profile drawings Post by: Massimo Tessitori on November 04, 2015, 01:51:53 PM Hi Misos,
Looks too strange. Regards Massimo Title: Re: Tu-2 profile drawings Post by: KL on November 06, 2015, 03:34:45 AM Question from scalemodels.ru:
Quote Знаететe, пожалуйсто, от которого годa после войны опять красили красные звезды на верхних плоскостях крыльев? From 1955 - Massimo was right :-X Hth, KL Title: Re: Tu-2 profile drawings Post by: 66misos on November 06, 2015, 06:55:48 PM Hi,
we had here after-war "Moskva 32": (http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1136686) and here is war-time "Moskva 32": (http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1141667) Profile is based mainly on this photo: (http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1135710) What is not visible on this photo I estimated according to the photos of the similarly camouflaged planes. IMHO this photo show light brown areas on the upperwing, not bluegrey: (http://www.mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/tu-2/tu-2camo/tu2coloraa.jpg) so idea of AMT-11 could be abandoned. Regards, 66misos Title: Re: Tu-2 profile drawings Post by: Massimo Tessitori on November 07, 2015, 06:14:33 AM Hi Misos,
looks a good reconstruction of this plane. Are there other drawings in sight? Regards Massimo Title: Re: Tu-2 profile drawings Post by: 66misos on November 07, 2015, 09:28:02 PM Hi Massimo,
thanks for kind comment. :) Here is "Moskva 32" from the top: (http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1141666) I also slightly reworked side view (post above) to better match photo and this top view. Yes, there are still additional Tu-2 planes in the queue to show variability in camouflage schemes. Regards, 66misos Title: Re: Tu-2 profile drawings Post by: 66misos on December 28, 2015, 09:56:48 PM Hi,
here is another profile - Tu-2S "Blue 20" in front of the Factory 23 building, October 1944. The light brown painting over the wings looks the same, or at least very similar to the Tu-2S "Moskva 32". I not sure if tail upper surfaces are also painted light brown or it is only the light reflection. (http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1160128) (http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1160129) EDIT Dec 29 - upper surfaces of the horizontal stabilizers partially painted light brown: (http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1160420) Here is the enlarged lightened photo showing the right tail: (http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1160131) Do you know anybody, please, board number of this Tu-2? (http://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/pages/tu-2/tu-2camo/tu2chiarom.jpg) That diagonal light stripe on the tail is interesting. On the Russian pages I saw old profile of the Tu-2 with yellow, white outlined diagonal stripe on the tail and with board number "White 84" on the fuselage. Thank you in advance. Regards, 66misos Title: Re: Tu-2 profile drawings Post by: Massimo Tessitori on December 29, 2015, 09:42:09 AM Hi Misos,
the extension of those light parts is a mystery. On the tail of n.20 it doesn't even seem a reflection, because it would be obscured by the reflection of the fin. I think you should paint the stabilizers on the assumption that the light part is brown. Regards Massimo Title: Re: Tu-2 profile drawings Post by: 66misos on December 29, 2015, 03:33:13 PM Hi Massimo,
thank you for your comment. I updated the picture in my post above. Regards, 66misos Title: Re: Tu-2 profile drawings Post by: 66misos on January 02, 2016, 12:47:42 PM Tu-2S 836 bap.
Ten Tu-2S aircrafts were built from a money collection of kolkhozniks from the Meschevskij rajon. The request for collection was published in the local newspaper on Feb 15, 1944, subsequently it was collected 4.1 millions rubles (ie. 410 thousands rubles per one Tu-2S). Aircrafts were built in the Zavod №.23 from where they flew to 836 bap on Oct 19, 1944 and were assigned to the third squadron. They participated in the Berlin Operation. (http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1163485) (http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1162283) (http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1162964) (http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1162284) (http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1162285) Regards, 66misos Title: Re: Tu-2 profile drawings Post by: Massimo Tessitori on January 02, 2016, 08:31:56 PM Hi Misos,
I'm happy to see the work proceeding. To be honest, I think that both inscriptions are oversized on the drawings. Regards Massimo Title: Re: Tu-2 profile drawings Post by: 66misos on January 03, 2016, 05:32:40 PM Hi Massimo,
thanx for comment. So I adjusted photos trying to compensate perspective. Then I superimposed text (separately blue and red) and board numbers (separately 21 and 25) over adjusted photos and adjusted texts and numbers to fit photos as much as possibble. And results are above - texts are a bit smaller, board numbers are a bit larger. I already replaced pictures. Regards, 66misos Title: Re: Tu-2 profile drawings Post by: learstang on January 05, 2016, 04:51:36 AM Beautiful profiles, Michal!
Regards, Jason Title: Re: Tu-2 profile drawings Post by: 66misos on January 23, 2016, 05:28:30 PM Hi,
here is the profile of Tu-2R from Massimo's Mig3 page: (http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1170233) (http://www.mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/tu-2/tu-2camo/tu2n3.jpg) This Tu-2R was rebuilt in 1943 from an early Tu-2VS, adding large cameras in the bomb bay. It was tested and later flown in combat by 2nd DRAP. It seems to show a 1942 black-green 'reversed' painting scheme, but its stars are already of the type introduced in late 1943. Strangely, the contrast on the nose sides looks much lower than on the tail. Here is scheme of the camera installation: (http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1170234) Hovewer, here we can see opening on the bomb bay right door: (http://www.mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/tu-2/tu-2camo/tu2fo.jpg) Here on the bomb bay left door no small door are visible, although according to the camera on the ground it should be Recon version: (http://www.mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/tu-2/misos/grey-grey-4/Pict03.jpg) regards, 66misos Title: Re: Tu-2 profile drawings Post by: Massimo Tessitori on January 23, 2016, 06:11:45 PM Hi Misos,
is the plane of the second photo the same one of the first? The camo looks different. The contrast on the tail is visible on other Tu-2s too. I wonder if it is because of the use of AMT colors on the rudder, that should be less matt than the A-xxm used on metal parts. If so, something similar could be seen on elevators and ailerons too. Regards Massimo Title: Re: Tu-2 profile drawings Post by: 66misos on January 23, 2016, 07:00:39 PM Hi Massimo,
thanks for comment. No, all three photos show different aircrafts. The second and third photos are there only to show the doors on the bomb bay. Regards, 66misos Title: Re: Tu-2 profile drawings Post by: 66misos on January 31, 2016, 06:08:37 PM Hi,
here are top and bottom view of the recon Tu-2R from my post above: (http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1173360) (http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1173370) Regards, 66misos Title: Re: Tu-2 profile drawings Post by: Massimo Tessitori on January 31, 2016, 08:46:47 PM Hi Misos,
very good, as usual. I'm not sure about the camouflage, but it's an excellent drawing anyway. But... shouldn't be a window for the camera on the bombs bay? Regards Massimo |