Sovietwarplanes

Hi,
here I drew profile of the Tu-2 bomber:

(http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1129317)

It is based on the photos from Massimo's Mig3 pages:
(http://www.mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/tu-2/tu-2camo/tu2.jpg)
and
(http://www.mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/tu-2/tu-2camo/tu2a.jpg)

The first round of the corrections (upper profile of the nose and upper profile of canopy) is already behind. However, it is really challenge to find reliable drawing and detailed photo, especially from the war-time era.
Regards,
  66misos

Hi Misos,
please check the rudder and stabilizers, they were of two different height according to  the version.
The shape of the glazing and struts doesn't seem convincing too.
The rear upper part of the nacelle looks angular on the photo.
The intake over the engine cowlings looks smaller on photos.
Regards
Massimo

Hi Massimo,
do you have, please, reliable drawing that shows differeces between "early" and "late" type of vertical stabilizer&rudder?
Landing wheel struts/legs, same as windshield, are made according to the photos from late Tu-2 walkaround at Monino http://sovietwarplanes.com/board/index.php?topic=1677.0 (http://sovietwarplanes.com/board/index.php?topic=1677.0)

(http://www.clubhyper.com/reference/p7hg_img_21/fullsize/Tu2Ext_fs.jpg)

"The rear upper part of the nacelle looks angular on the photo."
(http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/photos/9/9/3/1414399.jpg)

http://www.tupolev.ru/en/aircrafts/ant-58_(tu-2) (http://www.tupolev.ru/en/aircrafts/ant-58_(tu-2)):
Aircraft 60 (103В)
(http://www.tupolev.ru/files/core/istoria/samolety/ant-58/Tu-2_02.jpg)

Thank you in advance.
Regards,
   66misos

Excellent job on tackling the Tu-2 and it's elusive cammo schemes!
I hope You will extend the range of profiles to late-war machines  :)

This is not entirely true. Early and late editions of the Tu-2 have the same height of the keel. A "high" keel was only on the Tu-2D (of 4 aircraft)
The project Tu2D were taken from the number of airplanes 7-Series aircraft "713", "714", "716" and "718" sent to Moscow, where he underwent a modification at the factory number 156 in long-range bombers.

Hi Misos,
about the stabilizer, it looks that the low tail was characteristic of the prototypes. seems that the plane you're drawn is 100716 at nii vvs in 1943, it was born with low tail and then extended upwards; th modification is vaguely visible on the photo with a lighter crescent moon  part on its front and top.
I've sent some scans from Airwar, it should be a copy of Polish Loctnicze. I can't assure that they are perfect, but show some high and low tails.
I see that the corner of the nacelle is a bit rounded. Probably the idea of angular is due to painting.
The Chinese plane looks to lack of a nearly horizontal strut on the side, visible on the other photo. The look of the part should be a rounded frame around the rear glass, plus two nearly horizontal struts connecting it to the vertical one.
 
Regards
Massimo

Massimo
Low keel was only "103У" and "103B"
Tu 2 throughout the war had a standard keel unchanged Besides 4 Tу 2Д
And if you are talking about the difference in the keel (photo below), then it is a sample of the post-war 1946
(http://s9.postimg.org/gi0e6bf71/image.png)

Hi Johann and Misos,
according to Aviakollectsia, 1(2) 2008, Tu-2 part 1, this plane was seen with its tail in two different configurations.
(http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/tu-2/100716.jpg)
Regards
Massimo

Hmm ... I would not have believed this book. The documents concerning the order and the whole set of production equipment and devices,
It works according to the list compiled by Ch. technologist plant No.156.
Item 7 Plumage. The stabilizer and the elevators are made for the serial car on the plane 103U, with the lifting mechanism, unchanged. (!) On an experimental Tu-2 №100716 keel was made of this Directive.
If you read this book, there is very detail the process of operational development of the aircraft just an example board №100716 But (!) Not a single word about the capacity of the keel. I know of no picture TU-2 graft of keels, except of experimental platform "713", "714", "716" and "718", and after the war samples.
Yes, and the drawings in this book does not inspire confidence. Especially hereinafter have upomenaniya of Tu-2 №100716, given to the state of the Tu-2S Ie from production aircraft
it is no different. And again, all the photographs №100716 seen snandartnye keels. From where the author took about graft keel mystery. (and drawing it is not very convincing)

Here are the photos of the Tu-2 (103) №100716 made at different times, but not on the same keel is not high ...
(http://www.airwar.ru/image/idop/bww2/tu2-716/tu2-716-4.jpg)
(http://www.airwar.ru/image/idop/bww2/tu2-716/tu2-716-2.jpg)
(http://www.airwar.ru/image/idop/bww2/tu2-716/tu2-716-1.jpg)
(http://www.airwar.ru/image/idop/bww2/tu2-716/tu2-716-5.jpg)
(http://coollib.com/i/76/269776/pic_19.jpg)

But the high keel. But I repeat - they appeared only in 1946
(http://coollib.com/i/76/269776/pic_33.jpg)

Hi,
now I am confused.
The standard keel is of high or low type? Nearly all the drawings of Aviakollectsia show an high type on profiles, and low type only on prototypes and maybe on very early planes,
Is the keel of Tu-2D an even taller one?
Regards
Massimo

Все кили Ту-2 периуда 2 мировой имели стандартный киль без изменений с тип 103U до последующих модификаций. Исключения Ту-2Д (всего 4 самолета) А вот Ту-2 образца 1946 года имели высокий киль.
1- прототип
2- Ту-2 серийный
3- Ту-2Д
4- Ту-2 обр 1946 года
(http://s8.postimg.org/ae5osbc79/image.jpg)

Reply #6 on: September 29, 2015
I do knowingly led the comparison. 1 and 2 of the photo - matching angle 98% and the size of the image too. Visible differences between the military and post-war model. A photo 3 just discussed in the first post plane. Angle slightly disrupted but clearly videm keel that is the same as on the production aircraft.

Hi All,
thanks a lot for your imputs. I wonder how many differences there is.
My understanding is that (in some extent) size/shape of the vertical stabilizers were same (pict 3 above). And in 1946 it was increased (pict 4 above).
According to those drawing the vertical stabilizer in my profile should be OK.

It looks like I have to make another war-time and after-war profiles really fast to have a time to discus/correct them.
Thank you agan.
Regards,
  66misos

This video is about as good as it gets for a WWII aircraft.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWWfam0tw_Y

Hi,
black-green version after another corrections (hope already finished):
(http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1129835)

This 3-color version
EDIT - corrected camouflage on the nose:
(http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1129946)

should be this plane:
(http://www.mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/tu-2/tu-2camo/n8g.jpg)

(http://www.mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/tu-2/tu-2camo/tu2inflight6.jpg)

(http://www.mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/tu-2/tu-2camo/tu2n6above.jpg)

Regards,
    66misos

Hi Misos,
I think that the nose of the second plane should be light brown, regardless of the factory template. Looks common between Tu-2s.
Regards
Massimo

Hi Massimo,
may be yes, but I do not see demarcation line between respective light brown and dark (grey) which starts in the middle of the cockpit and continues to the front. There are strong light reflections on the upper nose.
Regards,
  66misos

I think so too. And the dividing line color of the cockpit in the picture is shifted further

(http://s17.postimg.org/qd56d5rtb/image.jpg)

Hi,
3-color camo version corrected on the nose according to your inputs - see my Reply #16 above.
Thank you.
Regards,
   66misos

Hi,
here is the next one:
EDIT: see my post at http://sovietwarplanes.com/board/index.php?topic=2112.msg17734#msg17734 (http://sovietwarplanes.com/board/index.php?topic=2112.msg17734#msg17734)

It should be this plane:
(http://www.mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/tu-2/tu-2camo/tu2fff.jpg)
Description from Massimo's Mig3 page:
"This plane, delivered with the camouflage during the war, had its upper surfaces repainted in solid green after the war's end."
And I would add that according to the strongly weathered star on the vertical stabilizer they repainted only originally dark grey and light brown areas. Original green color they kept as it was. Plus, it seems they added red star on the rear fuselage - at least I see there something what could be top tip of the star.
Similiarly to this plane:
(https://im2-tub-ru.yandex.net/i?id=f0f6d704dc3cfbc332874d79332c4650&n=33&h=190&w=405)
Best regards,
  66misos

Hi Misos,
interesting interpretation, about the repainting of brown and grey areas only.
The rectangular light on the end of the fuselage is missing.
Regards
Massimo

Such an option is not interesting?
camouflage pattern on it AMT-11 AMT-12
the inscription on the starboard side, on the left is only the inscription Москва

(http://retrovtap.ru/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B0%D1%80%D1%88%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%B0-%D0%9A%D0%B0%D0%B1%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%B4%D0%B8%D0%BD-%D0%92%D0%B0%D1%81%D0%B8%D0%BB%D0%B8%D0%B9.-%D0%BE.%D0%A1%D0%B0%D1%85%D0%B0%D0%BB%D0%B8%D0%BD.-%D0%BD%D0%BE%D1%8F%D0%B1%D1%80%D1%8C-1945%D0%B3.jpg)

(http://retrovtap.ru/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/345-%D0%B1%D0%B0%D0%BF-6-%D0%B4%D0%B1%D0%B0%D0%BF.-%D0%BE.%D0%A1%D0%B0%D1%85%D0%B0%D0%BB%D0%B8%D0%BD-1945..jpg)

(http://retrovtap.ru/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/%D0%9A_%D0%BD-%D0%A0%D0%BE%D0%BC%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B2-%D0%90%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%BA%D1%81%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B4%D1%80-%D0%92%D0%B0%D1%81%D0%B8%D0%BB%D1%8C%D0%B5%D0%B2%D0%B8%D1%87.-%D0%BE.%D0%A1%D0%B0%D1%85%D0%B0%D0%BB%D0%B8%D0%BD.-1945.jpg)

(http://retrovtap.ru/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/%D0%A1%D0%B0%D1%85%D0%B0%D0%BB%D0%B8%D0%BD.-1946.%D0%A7%D1%83%D0%B2%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B2-%D1%83-%D0%A2%D1%83-2-345-%D0%B1%D0%B0%D0%BF.jpg)

(http://retrovtap.ru/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/%D0%9F%D0%BE%D0%B3%D0%BE%D0%B4%D0%B8%D0%BD-%D0%90.%D0%98.-%D0%BE.%D0%A1%D0%B0%D1%85%D0%B0%D0%BB%D0%B8%D0%BD.-1945-%D0%B3.jpg)

Hi Johann,
are you sure that this plane was grey? I know that it was represented in this way on Aviakollectsia's profiles, but I have many doubts that this is reliable.
I made some researches and what I have found is published here: http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/tu-2/tu-2camo/tu-2camo.htm (http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/tu-2/tu-2camo/tu-2camo.htm).
Unfortunately it's rather unconclusive, but plane 32 of the same unit shows clearly two dark shades on the rudder that are compatible with green/grey/brown factory template, while the upper surface of wings of this and of of many planes seems strangely light as if it was all brown; more probably, it's in faded 3-colors camo, while only the rear fuselage and tail were freshly repainted because more accessible.
Of course, it's impossible to deduct colors from a bw photo, but the ministerial template of 1945, with amt-11 and 12, is not shown in any of the known photos. If factories turned to grey camo in 1945, they should have built hundreds of planes with that painting. Besides it's known that postwar-built Tu-2s and even Tu-14 had the 3 shades camouflage made in glossy colors.
Regards
Massimo

Hi Massimo - For the same publication, can be supplemented. The inscription on the starboard side
Moscow
From the workers of the Kiev region
Москва
От трудящихся Киевского района
As for the color, I think I stepped on a rake tezhe that Кондратьев (Kondratiev).
Based same research Вахламова (Vahlamova) gray-gray camouflage on this machine could not be. It was introduced in the 45 and 44. The photo was taken in I offer my apologies for inaccuracy.

Hi,

@Massimo,
The rectangular light on the end of the fuselage is added, see pict above. Thanks for note.

@Johann,
It is quite time consuming to trace all that text (Moskva, ot...) and I have only limited time now. So may be latter.

EDIT:
Here are two profiles of Hungarian Tu-2 from the fifties from the Russian forums, I do not know how they are reliable.
(http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1130514)

(http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1130515)

According to the description is had standard VVS painting and marking, only stars seems to be modified.
Regards,
   66misos

Hi Johann,
I hoped that you have some sure information on grey Tu-2s.
Regards
Massimo

Unfortunately, the bombers are not my element.

Hello Missos!

Sadly there are only a few picture about the Hungarian TU-2 "T?zok".
You can find some here:

http://www.avia-info.hu/talalat.php?GTA=t799 (http://www.avia-info.hu/talalat.php?GTA=t799)

They were in use only a short time period. They had several versions, and repaired war demages could be found on them.
What is impotant that the Hungarian insignia is white in a red star, and within the white there is a green disc according to the national colours.
(http://www.eliteday.com/blueprint/repules/magyar/jelzesek/h-felsjel.jpg)

Hi,
@Massimo, I browsed Google and Rusdian Yandex, but I cannot find any photo of grey-grey camo. I found Tu-2T only in standard 3-color camo.

@Ochotnik,  thank you for link. The first one, Tu-2 "10", looks nice with Hungarian tricolore (red-white-green) on the spinner. What color is on the tip of the spinner - red or green?
And, of course, I will correct the stars - little green circle in the middle and white outline.
Regards,
   66misos

Hello Missos!

I am not sure that at the spinner had the national colours, but if it was than the first was red.
Istv

Hi,
here are photos of Hungarian Tu-2 from the link provided by Ochotnik:

(http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1131239)
We can see that on the Russian profiles above is except incorrect Hungarian marking also incorrect font of "53".

(http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1131240)

I finally decided for "10" - it has after-war four-blades propeller, very probably one big circular window on the rear fuselage and (IMHO) nice tricolora on the spinner:
(http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1131241)

(http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1131800)
Regards,
   66misos

Hi Misos,
the photo seems to show plane 10 without defensive armament. The border between green and blue should be a bit revised on the nacelle, both forward and behind the wing. I would move the 10 a bit backwards.
Regards
Massimo

Hi Massimo,
IMHO it has armament. Rear top gun cover is open and IMHO gun is only turned tu side, but there is visible something.
I correcced border line between green and blue color on both nacelle and rear fuselage, plus "10" is moved a bit backwards - see picture above.
Thanks for remarks.

Let's continue with the Bulgarian Tu-2:
(http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1131799)

Photos of the original:
(http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1131379)

(http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1131380)

And photo of the description table from the museum in Bulgaria where this plane is displayed:
(http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1131381)

Regards,
   66misos

Hi Misos,
seems that the trim tab was present on the right rudder only.
I would lift a bit the straight part of the border between green and blue on the fuselage.
Regards
Massimo

Hi Massimo,
I will try it tomorrow. That trim tam - Oh s..t! >:( Seems I should correct it on all other profiles.... :'(
In the meantime here is the last one from today - Tu-2 from Poland:

(http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1139337)

Here is original:
(http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1131491)

And here seems to be the same plane but repainted:
(http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1131493)

Here seems to be visible bottom of the tail in the different color (red like painted on other profiles?):
(http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1131492)

Regards,
   66misos

Hi Misos,
I think that, IF the bottom of the tail was really red, it should be higher on the rudder than on the stabilizer. On the inner side, the lower part was certainly light blue. I wonder if the right and left rudders are interchangeable.
The number 8 on the photos has changed both position and size, the drawing shows the size of the bigger one in the position of the smaller one.
The trasparent nail of the gunner's canopy looks too long and straight.
Regards
Massimo

Hi Massimo,
I correct tails on all profiles. Bulagrian and Hungarian are ready, same as Poland. I made also some changes according to your comments. Only red bottom on the Polish Tu-2 I kept in the same line - see pictures above.
And in the meantime here is Tu-2 from North Korea:
(http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1131796)

(http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1131797)
Regards,
   66misos

Hi,
here are last two Tu-2 from Asia:

China:
(http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1139338)

Original:
(http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1131900)

and other planes:
(http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1131904)

(http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1131905)

(http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1131906)


Indonesia, originally chinese plane, only marking and btail number is repainted:
(http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1139339)

No good photo found, only this one with 4-blades propeller:
(http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1131907)

So I took some inspiration from this profile (not very correct) and from chineese plane above:
(http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1131908)

Regards,
   66misos

Hi Misos,
interesting profiles.
I think that the position of the rear gun should be modified, the outline of the opening appears curve in profile on its rear, not straight.
Regards
Massimo

Hi Massimo,
Thanks for comment. You are right, on some photos from angle (perspective) it looks like curve. But on other photos not. It seems there were several modifications even in this part of the plane. Plus even straight line on the oval object (like fuselage) looks like curve from angle.
However, my profiles are strict side view without applying perspective. So I decided to let it as is now unless I found good line drawing of this part of Tu-2.
Regards,
   66misos

Hi,
in the meantime I started work on the view from the top:
(http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1132158)

Drawing is still not finished, only black and green areas are estimated according to this photos:
(http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1132159)

Regards,
    66misos

Hi Misos,
it looks that this is the only photo where the camo of the wings can be seen clearly.
Regards
Massimo

Hi Massimo,
here is another picture of black-green top side:
(http://russianhistoryblog.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/tu-2.jpg)
When comparing with the scheme in the post above, it seems to have exchanged black and green areas.

Several day ago I posted request at VIF about grey-grey camo on Tu-2 and whether Xuntong grey-grey Tu-2 is authentic or fiction:
(http://www.cybermodeler.com/hobby/kits/xun/images/xun_48002_title.jpg)
Surprisingly there is no response untill now.

However, here is photo of Tu-2T with the torpedos under wings:
(http://www.airwar.ru/image/idop/sea/tu2t/tu2t-2.jpg)
(http://www.airwar.ru/image/idop/sea/tu2t/tu2t-4.jpg)
and it quite nicely fits to this factory 3-color scheme:
(http://www.mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/colors/1943-45-bombers/tem-tu2-43r.jpg)
Regards,
   66misos

Hi Misos,
yes, there is this one but it's too vague.
This Tu-2T is the only one I know to fit well the factory drawing. Other photos seem to show an anomalous extension of light areas over the wings.
Regards
Massimo

Hi,
here are top surfaces:
(http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1133932)

of this plane:
(http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1129835)

Black and green areas are drawn according to the NKAP scheme from June 1941:
(http://www.mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/colors/1941-43/template-twin.jpg)

and modified according to the photos of the actual plane at http://sovietwarplanes.com/board/index.php?topic=2112.0 (http://sovietwarplanes.com/board/index.php?topic=2112.0)

EDIT:
Bottom view:
(http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1133931)
Regards,
   66misos

Hi,
here is the torpedo version from my Reply #44 http://sovietwarplanes.com/board/index.php?topic=2112.msg17683#msg17683 (http://sovietwarplanes.com/board/index.php?topic=2112.msg17683#msg17683)
which nicely fits (one of) NKAP scheme from 1943 for two-engines bombers:

EDIT:
(http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1133676)

(http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1133704)

(http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1133906)

Regards,
   66misos

Hi Misos,
looks good.
Regards
Massimo

Hi Massimo,
thank you for kind words. :)
I still corrected & added some details on Top view, plus I added two bottom views - standard and torpedo version - see my posts above.
So, this serie is finished now.
Regards,
   66misos


PS: Thanks all for comments and help.

Hi Misos, you're welcome as usual. You did a good work. It would be interesting to develop it for the site some day.
Regards
Massimo

Hi Massimo,
thanks. :) Probably I will do sometime in the future, I have to focus on the other things now.

In the meantime another nice picture showing upper black-green surfaces - my profile fits it quite well:
(http://www.airwar.ru/image/idop/bww2/tu2/tu2-3.jpg)

Regards,
   66misos

Hi Misos,
good indeed. Where is it from?
Regards
Massimo

Excellent work on the profiles, 66misos! Just to let everyone know, 66misos had done these beautiful profiles for a book I'm finishing up on the Tu-2 for the same publisher who printed my Il-2 book, Fonthill Media. The Tu-2 book should be available some time next year (2016). And don't forget my Il-2 book, available at fine stores everywhere (okay, that was a shameless plug).

Best Regards,

Jason

Hi,
@Massimo, I do not know :-[ I just fast browse Google and/or Yandex.ru and save&post here when found something interesting.
@Jason, I am really glad you like them. Thanks for appreciation. :)
Regards,
   66misos

Hi,
I don't know if it's representative, but I see that this machine has trim tabs on both the ruddes, not protruding.
Regards
Massimo

Hi,
size comparison of Tu-2 and Pe-2:
(http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1134475)
Regards,
   66misos

Hi Misos/Jason,
Pe-2 and Tu-2 had very different purpose and origin, so the difference in size isn't surprising:

Pe-2 was developed from a twin engine high altitude fighter prototype, it was roughly the size of Me-110.  Pe-2 was a "front bomber" meaning short range and modest bomb load; in western air forces such a plane would be classified as a light bomber.

Tu-2 was a multi-purpose medium bomber.  It was similar size as Junkers Ju-88.

IMHO, for more effective size comparison Tu-2 and Pe-2 profiles should be drawn horizontal, "in flight" with their longitudinal axis aligned.  In plan view you should definitively align fuselage axis of both planes too.

It would be interesting to see size comparison of Tu-2 and Ju-88...

Regards,
KL   

Hi KL,
so one for you - comparison of Tu-2 and Ju-88G ;)
May be is is not fully exact, but it gives at least idea:
(http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1135236)
Regrads,
   66misos

Hi,
here is updated picture of the after-the-war VVS Tu-2:
(http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1136686)

Photos and info from scalemodels.ru and discussed also at modelforum.cz show that it is originally "32 Moskva":
(http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1135710)

repainted overall green on topside and ended in Kharkov military school in mid fifties:
(http://www.mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/tu-2/tu-2camo/tu2fff.jpg)

(http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1135711)

(http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1134625)

Regards,
  66misos

Hi Misos,
good work. I wonder why the inner face of the stabilizer is shining, perhaps it was retouched with fresh paint.
Regards
Massimo

Hi,
here is Tu-2P in grey-grey camo:

(http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1138732)

(http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1138376)

According to the discussion at http://sovietwarplanes.com/board/index.php?topic=2022.0 (http://sovietwarplanes.com/board/index.php?topic=2022.0) it should/could be this plane:
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Tu%202/Untitled_zps6sgrway4.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Tu%202/14-1_zpsbumyjiw1.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Tu%202/14-2_zpsitoghaya.jpg)

AMt-11/12 areas are estimated according to the photos above and oficial scheme from january 1945:
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Tu%202/vvs%20colour_zpsxcmczsb5.jpg)
Regards,
   66misos

Hi Misos,
nice artwork, but I can't see anything that suggests that plane 4 has grey/grey painting. For example, I think to see a light band on the rear of the engine cowling, not on the front. Not even the contrast on the photos is convincing for a grey/grey plane, it doesn't seem to that seen on photos of Yaks and Lavochkins.
I would check again the rear canopy, its shape doest't seem as that of the photo.
Regards
Massimo

Hi Massimo,
you are right, the contrast between "possible" AMT-11 and AMT-12 on that TU-2P photo is very low, it is usually more evident on La and Yak photos, but there are also examples with the similar contrast:
(http://airfield.narod.ru/yak/yak-9/color2/photo_yak-9d_11-1.jpg)
(http://www.ww2incolor.com/d/210919-4/La5-5s)
(http://www.gonzoaviation.com/AwEshop2UserFiles/image/Gallery/260/la_5fn_20130921_013731348.jpg)
I know, it is not proof, but...

Which rear canopy do you mean, please, the rear part of the front canopy or rear upper gunner?
Regards,
   66misos

Hi Misos,
I mean the fingernail-like trasparent roof over the rear gunner's pocition. The upper profile should be curved downwards, and the upper profile of the cut should be horizontal. The photo shows this well.
Regards
Massimo

Hi  Massimo,
I corrected trasparent roof over the rear gunner according to the photos:
(http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1138733)
added some antena or probe on the nose, slightly changed dark grey area on the engine gondola and replaced my picture above.
Thanks for comment.
Regards,
  66misos

Hi Misos,
it's much better now.
Regards
Massimo

Hi Misos,
Vitaliy has suggested that there is a  face painted on the engine ring, including a smiling mouth as that of emoticons.
Regards
Massimo

Good idea :) AFAIK it would be very unusual sence of humor in VVS.

Here is a top view of the grey-grey "White 4" from my previous post:
(http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1139590).
AMT-11/AMT-12 areas are made according to the scheme for Pe-2 from January 1945.
I know it is more-less What-if for this particular aircraft, but at least is nicely shows grey-grey scheme ;)


Here at http://www.bellabs.ru/51/Interview/Zajfman-5.html (http://www.bellabs.ru/51/Interview/Zajfman-5.html) I have found nice photos of overall light grey Tu-2 from 1 GMTAP, September 1948:
(http://www.bellabs.ru/51/Photos/1GMTAP-1948_Zajfman_Tu-2.jpg)
Propeller spinners had different color, probably red.
This is another plane, or at least another pilot from the same unit:
(http://www.bellabs.ru/51/Photos/1GMTAP-1948_Denisov_2.jpg)
Again overall light grey, board number probably red "4".

Similar light grey Tu-2 is visible also on this photo:
(http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1139580)

Overall light grey paint reminds me this Tu-2D (65), also a couple of years after the war:
(http://s4.postimg.org/gdyp3tgtp/1_100_Tu55.jpg)

Could it be gloss light grey-blue A-36g, used for overall painting on La-9/11/15/17, Yak-9P?
Regards,
   66misos

Hi Misos,
for what I see on the photo, this decoration was on the left engine only.  I wonder if they could have used red paint for the eyes and mouth.
The overall light grey plane is interesting, I vote for A-36g.
Regards
Massimo

Hi Massimo,
all photos show complete front part only of the left gondola, the right one is not visible. So I do not know.
Anyhow, something like this?
EDIT Nov 2, 2015:
(http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1139973)
Regards,
   66misos

Hi Misos,
I'm not sure, but I think not to see the mouth on the other engine, or to see something much thinner.
Besides I think that the eyes were black.
Regards
Massimo

Hi Massimo,
"smiling face" is corrected.

Here is next one - bluegrey (A-36g) Tu-2 from 1948 according to the photos above:
(http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1140088)

Do you know, when they in VVS after the WWII started to paint again red stars on the upper wings?
Regards,
   66misos

Hi Misos,
nice profile.
In 1945-1950 there was much confusion on the position of the stars. I think that the standard on 6 positions (tail, upper and lower surface of wings) was established around 1950. I suppose that this Tu-2 hadn't stars on the wing upper surface.
Regards
Massimo

Various 1941-45 disruptive camouflage schemes developed for VVS combat planes didn't have stars on upper wing - that is the reason why wartime VVS planes didn't have stars on upper wing surfaces.

As soon as disruptive camouflage disappeared from VVS planes, stars reappeared on wing tops...  IMHO, all postwar VVS planes had stars on upper wing surfaces.

Regards,
KL

Hi,

I do not think so. Here are some examples of the after-war VVS planes in the single color paint scheme without red stars on the upper wings:
I-250, October 1945:
(https://www.litmir.co/BookBinary/264759/1443096571/i_013.jpg)
(https://www.litmir.co/BookBinary/264759/1443096571/i_014.jpg)

Tu-8, late fourties:
(http://img0.liveinternet.ru/images/attach/c/11/114/916/114916640_1947tu84.jpg)

Yak-15, 1947
(https://www.litmir.co/BookBinary/264759/1443096572/i_032.jpg)
(https://www.litmir.co/BookBinary/264759/1443096572/i_033.jpg)

MiG-9, 1947:
(https://www.litmir.co/BookBinary/264759/1443096572/i_059.jpg)

Yak-200, 1952-3 (light blue-grey A-36g?):
(http://ram-home.com/ram-old/yak-200-kr1.jpg)

Il-28, in overall silver painting, the red stars are already on the upper wing:
(http://photo.qip.ru/photo/morlet/2300879/xlarge/40329342.jpg)

Regards,
   66misos

Hi,
here are another photos from 1 gmtap:
(http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1140132)

(http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1140142)

(http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1140284)

So here I made a sister to "red 4" according to the photo above:
(http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1140290)

Regards,
  66misos

Hi Misos,
interesting images. I see some red trims on horizontal surfaces too.
Regards
Massimo

Hi Massimo,
yes, I think so - one on the right wing and two on the both horizontal stabilizers.

Here is another top view:
(http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1141665)

It should be this plane:
(http://www.mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/tu-2/tu-2camo/n8g.jpg)
(http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1129946)

The upper surface painting looks like modification of this scheme:
(http://www.mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/tu-2/tu-2camo/tu-2%20template8.jpg)
Dark grey and green areas on the wings are repainted with the fresh light brown - a bit darker than weathered original light brown.
Regards,
   66misos

Hi Misos, yes, it seems so... but I wonder why they should put all that brown on the wings.
Regards
Massimo

Hi Massimo,
I also do not understand it. That time, during VVS aerial superiority, fighters abandoned masking against ground (black-green) but were masked against far horisont, e.g. grey-bluegrey colors.
Applying so big areas of the light brown, it looks like flying low above desert or dry grassland. And similar repainting with some light color was done also on some Pe-2. ???
I would prefer light bluegrey AMT-11 or its oil equivalent, but this color does not look usually co bright on the photos.
Regards,
   66misos

Hi,
so here it is for comparison - the same "white 6", but repainted with blue-grey AMT-11, not with light brown:
EDIT: Deleted as apparently incorrect, see color photo in the post bellow.
Regards,
   66misos

Hi Misos,
Looks too strange.
Regards
Massimo

Question from scalemodels.ru:


From 1955 - Massimo was right  :-X

Hth,
KL

Hi,
we had here after-war "Moskva 32":
(http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1136686)

and here is war-time "Moskva 32":
(http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1141667)

Profile is based mainly on this photo:
(http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1135710)
What is not visible on this photo I estimated according to the photos of the similarly camouflaged planes.

IMHO this photo show light brown areas on the upperwing, not bluegrey:
(http://www.mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/tu-2/tu-2camo/tu2coloraa.jpg)
so idea of AMT-11 could be abandoned.
Regards,
   66misos

Hi Misos,
looks a good reconstruction of this plane.
Are there other drawings in sight?
Regards
Massimo

Hi Massimo,
thanks for kind comment. :)
Here is "Moskva 32" from the top:
(http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1141666)
I also slightly reworked side view (post above) to better match photo and this top view.

Yes, there are still additional Tu-2 planes in the queue to show variability in camouflage schemes.
Regards,
    66misos

Hi,
here is another profile - Tu-2S "Blue 20" in front of the Factory 23 building, October 1944. The light brown painting over the wings looks the same, or at least very similar to the Tu-2S "Moskva 32". I not sure if tail upper surfaces are also painted light brown or it is only the light reflection.

(http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1160128)

(http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1160129)

EDIT Dec 29 - upper surfaces of the horizontal stabilizers partially painted light brown:
(http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1160420)

Here is the enlarged lightened photo showing the right tail:
(http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1160131)

Do you know anybody, please, board number of this Tu-2?
(http://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/pages/tu-2/tu-2camo/tu2chiarom.jpg)
That diagonal light stripe on the tail is interesting. On the Russian pages I saw old profile of the Tu-2 with yellow, white outlined diagonal stripe on the tail and with board number "White 84" on the fuselage.
Thank you in advance.
Regards,
     66misos

Hi Misos,
the extension of those light parts is a mystery. On the tail of n.20 it doesn't even seem a reflection, because it would be obscured by the reflection of the fin.  I think you should paint the stabilizers on the assumption that the light part is brown.
Regards
Massimo

Hi Massimo,
thank you for your comment. I updated the picture in my post above.
Regards,
    66misos

Tu-2S 836 bap.
Ten Tu-2S aircrafts were built from a money collection of kolkhozniks from the Meschevskij rajon. The request for collection was published in the local newspaper on Feb 15, 1944, subsequently it was collected 4.1 millions rubles (ie. 410 thousands rubles per one Tu-2S). Aircrafts were built in the Zavod №.23 from where they flew to 836 bap on Oct 19, 1944 and were assigned to the third squadron. They participated in the Berlin Operation.

(http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1163485)

(http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1162283)

(http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1162964)

(http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1162284)

(http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1162285)

Regards,
   66misos

Hi Misos,
I'm happy to see the work proceeding.
To be honest, I think that both inscriptions are oversized on the drawings.
Regards
Massimo

Hi Massimo,
thanx for comment.
So I adjusted photos trying to compensate perspective. Then I superimposed text (separately blue and red) and board numbers (separately 21 and 25) over adjusted photos and adjusted texts and numbers to fit photos as much as possibble. And results are above - texts are a bit smaller, board numbers are a bit larger. I already replaced pictures.
Regards,
   66misos

Beautiful profiles, Michal!

Regards,

Jason

Hi,
here is the profile of Tu-2R from Massimo's Mig3 page:

(http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1170233)

(http://www.mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/tu-2/tu-2camo/tu2n3.jpg)
This Tu-2R was rebuilt in 1943 from an early Tu-2VS, adding large cameras in the bomb bay. It was tested and later flown in combat by 2nd DRAP.
It seems to show a 1942 black-green 'reversed' painting scheme, but its stars are already of the type introduced in late 1943. Strangely, the contrast on the nose sides looks much lower than on the tail.

Here is scheme of the camera installation:
(http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1170234)

Hovewer, here we can see opening on the bomb bay right door:
(http://www.mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/tu-2/tu-2camo/tu2fo.jpg)

Here on the bomb bay left door no small door are visible, although according to the camera on the ground it should be Recon version:
(http://www.mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/tu-2/misos/grey-grey-4/Pict03.jpg)

regards,
   66misos

Hi Misos,
is the plane of the second photo the same one of the first? The camo looks different.
The contrast on the tail is visible on other Tu-2s too. I wonder if it is because of the use of AMT colors on the rudder, that should be less matt than the A-xxm used on metal parts. If so, something similar could be seen on elevators and ailerons too.
Regards
Massimo

Hi Massimo,
thanks for comment.
No, all three photos show different aircrafts. The second and third photos are there only to show the doors on the bomb bay.
Regards,
   66misos

Hi,
here are top and bottom view of the recon Tu-2R from my post above:

(http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1173360)

(http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1173370)

Regards,
   66misos

Hi Misos,
very good, as usual. I'm not sure about the camouflage, but it's an excellent drawing anyway.  But... shouldn't be a window for the camera on the bombs bay?
Regards
Massimo