Sovietwarplanes

Great Patriotic War Aviation => Lend-lease planes => Topic started by: 4bogreen on November 04, 2015, 06:29:12 PM



Title: 1/48 57th GIAP Spitfire MK.Vb over the Kunban 1943
Post by: 4bogreen on November 04, 2015, 06:29:12 PM
Hey guys!

I am going to start with building a Russian Spitfire mk.vb over the Kuban area in 1943. Its the famous "538" aircraft. Here is a list of items i have to build this model.

-Airfix A05125 Spitfire MK.Vb
-Eduard 648183 brassin Spitfire MK.V cockpit
-Eduard 648178 Spitfire MK.V wheels
-Master reality in miniature AM48003 Hispano 20mm cannons
-Tigerhead decals 48019 Spitfires in Russian service
-Eduard 648182 Spitfire MK.V "fishtail" exhausts stacks

As usual, any info on Spitfires is welcome. I am not an Spitfire expert.

Regards,

Remco


Title: Re: 1/48 57th GIAP Spitfire MK.Vb over the Kunban 1943
Post by: Troy Smith on November 04, 2015, 08:45:29 PM
Hi Remco

this link
http://spitfiresite.com/2010/07/anatomy-of-spitfire-cockpit.html

a very extensive set of photos of a very carefully restored Vb, note the colours.

A caution, the Airfix kit has very fine part tolerances, even a coat of paint or a missed sprue nib will cause problems fitting, especially in the cockpit area, as this can affect the wings fit and fuel tank cover later on.
There is a very extensive build here
http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234968337-two-148-mkvb-spitfires-tamiya-and-airfix-new-spitfire-collection-expansion-project-finished-photos-now-in-the-rfi-section-080615/

You may find all the cockpit really needs is a zoom set.

I've not seen these Tigerhead decals, but the ones I have seen on Hannants don't look very well researched.

I am ignoring my daughter doing this so that's all for now.
cheers
T


Title: Re: 1/48 57th GIAP Spitfire MK.Vb over the Kunban 1943
Post by: 66misos on November 04, 2015, 10:16:00 PM
Hi Remco,
something for you:
http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/english/articles/spit/ (http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/english/articles/spit/)
Probably you will not find more concentrated and reliable info about this particular plane elsewhere.
Regards,
   66misos


Title: Re: 1/48 57th GIAP Spitfire MK.Vb over the Kunban 1943
Post by: 4bogreen on November 04, 2015, 11:12:54 PM
Hi guys

Thanks for the info!!! A 30 page of Spitfire build is very extensive Troy! A ton of good info here. I find the cockpit color very interesting. especially the green primer, that's only added in the cockpit. i assumed it would be in the whole plane. I got the Eduard brassin cockpit for a cheap price, but it's a real gem. The detail is awesome and a very nice addition to the plane. The only thing i am a bit disappointed about, is the riveting on the plane. Panellines looks good, but no rivets are added.

The lend lease article is indeed very good 66misos. I had already read it. Thanks for the info!

I am now focussing on cleaning the Eduard resin bits and drilling the holes in the spars.

Regards,

Remco


Title: Re: 1/48 57th GIAP Spitfire MK.Vb over the Kunban 1943
Post by: Troy Smith on November 05, 2015, 12:21:16 AM
Hi Remco

the interior colours, at some point later in the war they went all grey-green, but apart from the cockpit the rest of the internals, engine, gun bays, wheel wells etc are aluminium paint, same in Hurricanes BTW.

The outer part of the wheel well is the underside colour from studying photos.

I've not gone through the entire 30 pages recently, but the points on careful construction are detailed.

The Undercarriage leg attachment is a poor design, suggest gluing top and bottom parts, drill through from the top, to allow for a metal pin, and the cut leg, and attach later, if that makes sense, it will do if you look at the kit!

Rivets....well, Spitfire wings are flush riveted, but the leading edge 'D' section is ...oh, cut n paste time
http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234986185-148-airfix-new-tool-spitfire-mki-x4382-from-no602-squadron-completed-on-31-10-at-1150-pm/page-2

a couple of points.   Eduard made a boob on their Spitfire, in that the front of the wing, the 'D' section leading edge is made of thicker gauge metal, and the rivets are filled and rubbed down, they are pretty much invisible on the real thing.   Check your own photos, but here's one, note smoothness of leading edge, same on top.
http://data3.primeportal.net/hangar/mark_hayward/supermarine_spitfire_mk1a_p9444/images/supermarine_spitfire_mk1a_p9444_03_of_37.jpg
 
from http://www.primeportal.net/hangar/mark_hayward/supermarine_spitfire_mk1a_p9444/index.php?Page=1

the other wing rivets are flush too, but the skinning is thinner, and show up more as dishing of the metal.  This is a Mk I but apart from the cannons a Vb is pretty much the same, and this has shots of the underside which you usually don't get to see.

there is a Vb walkround here
http://www.primeportal.net/hangar/mark_hayward/supermarine_spitfire_vb_bm597/
lots of useful detail.

note a lot of the fuselage used dome head rivets, also note the overlapping panels
http://data3.primeportal.net/hangar/mark_hayward/supermarine_spitfire_vb_bm597/images/supermarine_spitfire_vb_bm597_36_of_43.jpg

There is a trend among modeller's, especially the Czech to use recessed rivet tools, and modeller's looks at other models and round and round it goes, but  the other Britmodeller link the builder uses HGW postive rivets on the fuselage to great effect.
stunning build, lots of good tips.

Note, unless you get really close, you just don't see the rivets at all.

Have a look at the walkround photos, it's a cosseted warbird photographed with a modern camera, and even then they are not that visible.



 


Title: Re: 1/48 57th GIAP Spitfire MK.Vb over the Kunban 1943
Post by: 4bogreen on November 05, 2015, 05:28:20 AM
Hi Troy,

Wow! thanks for the tips. I will have a look for the rivet decals. I have just looked them up and i like the HWG 481000 decal. The kitmakers don't have apply all the rivets, but this plane looks a bit...naked without them. With the rivets added it will be a more interesting plane to look at. I don't going to add every rivet, but a lot more than the kit is showing now.

Regards,

Remco


Title: Re: 1/48 57th GIAP Spitfire MK.Vb over the Kunban 1943
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on November 05, 2015, 06:10:33 AM
Hi,
very interesting discussion about rivet decals, where can I find a link to this sheet?
Troy, is it possible to post photos in smaller size (max 1024 px), or replace them with links or thumbnails, please? Wide photos deform the visualization and consume much band.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: 1/48 57th GIAP Spitfire MK.Vb over the Kunban 1943
Post by: 4bogreen on November 05, 2015, 08:57:48 PM
Hi Massimo!

Glad you join the post!

Troy, i have the HWG rivets now. I am always very exiting to do something new, so i will see how it works out. Cool!

Regards,

Remco


Title: Re: 1/48 57th GIAP Spitfire MK.Vb over the Kunban 1943
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on November 06, 2015, 01:26:33 PM
Hi Remco,
interesting discussion. I'm very impressed for the details of the new kits and for the new accessories.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: 1/48 57th GIAP Spitfire MK.Vb over the Kunban 1943
Post by: otto on November 06, 2015, 03:48:10 PM
Who said rivets! ::)
That Basilisk did a really great job on his Spitfire! Combining negative and positive rivets is an artist's touch. I tested HGW decal rivets with poor results, but I must resolve to try again. Fortunately Zvezda seems to have joined the "Rivet Party", at least on 1/48 models like Su-2 and Pe-2. It's a pity that in their 1/72 Su-27SM they omitted not only the structural rivets, virtually invisible on a modern jet, but also the panel screws dots. :(


Title: Re: 1/48 57th GIAP Spitfire MK.Vb over the Kunban 1943
Post by: 4bogreen on December 07, 2015, 09:42:47 PM
A bit progress....

(http://s20.postimg.org/y99jffl4p/20151202_200641.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/y99jffl4p/)

(http://s20.postimg.org/lvwp8ivg9/20151202_200713.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/lvwp8ivg9/)

(http://s20.postimg.org/bzvm8vpo9/20151202_200746.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/bzvm8vpo9/)

The Eduard cockpit is a real gem. Highly detailed and a exelent look. Sometimes i had to make some openings wider and cut a littlebit off to make a perfect fit. Although on the drawings they say to "lock" the cockpit up by putting the two sidewalls on the frame, i put them om ste sidewals of the kit. now i have a better control while painting and detailing. As you can see, the resin sidewall is one frame section to short on the side. Some pieces i left off due better control while painting. The landinggear is a bit of a nightmare to fix. Its engeneered very brittle. Suggestions are to drill a hole, put a iron rod in it and glue it in to place (thanks for this tip Troy!)

regards,

Remco


Title: Re: 1/48 57th GIAP Spitfire MK.Vb over the Kunban 1943
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on December 08, 2015, 07:13:10 AM
Hi Remco,
looks excellent so far. I am surprised for the separation of the panel in front of the canopy. Is this to insert an alternative windshield frame?
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: 1/48 57th GIAP Spitfire MK.Vb over the Kunban 1943
Post by: 4bogreen on December 09, 2015, 09:16:52 PM
Hi Massimo,

Thanks! There is indeed an alternative winshield on the Spitfire. You can make two types. A and B. Option A is the "new" MK.Vb and the "upgraded" MK.Vb. I have read that some MKII airframes were updated to MK.Vb standards. I make the "upgraded" variant. It has the armored glass on the outside of the plane, on the front of the windshield. The "new" windshield is more rounded and has the armored glass inside. Personaly i think the upgraded version looks smoother than the new variant.

Regards,

Remco


Title: Re: 1/48 57th GIAP Spitfire MK.Vb over the Kunban 1943
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on December 10, 2015, 06:07:12 AM
Hi Remco,
so, are there two alternative sectors of fuselage, each for one windshield type, or there is any other reason for this scomposition?
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: 1/48 57th GIAP Spitfire MK.Vb over the Kunban 1943
Post by: Troy Smith on December 10, 2015, 08:45:39 PM
HI Massimo

mainly to allow different windscreen base sections, but also allows a smooth topside to fuel tank.

Remco, one point, the fuel tank has a thin layer, about 5mm IIRC,  of armour plate, and is meant to be a small amount wider than the panels below.

look at photo here to see what I mean
http://data3.primeportal.net/hangar/mark_hayward/supermarine_spitfire_mk1a_p9444/images/supermarine_spitfire_mk1a_p9444_22_of_37.jpg

and less obvious here, but now you know what too look for
http://data3.primeportal.net/hangar/mark_hayward/supermarine_spitfire_vb_bm597/images/supermarine_spitfire_vb_bm597_25_of_43.jpg
HTH
T


Title: Re: 1/48 57th GIAP Spitfire MK.Vb over the Kunban 1943
Post by: 4bogreen on December 10, 2015, 08:55:53 PM
Hi Massimo, hi Troy,

Thanks for the great info! The "bulky look" of the plating also noticed me. I thought it was an error, and was thinking of sanding it down (now i just leave it that way). Thanks for explaining! Currently i am on the model right now. Its a mighty swell model. Seeing this model brings back memories of building my old Monogram Spitfire. Fun!

Regards,

Remco


Title: Re: 1/48 57th GIAP Spitfire MK.Vb over the Kunban 1943
Post by: 4bogreen on December 10, 2015, 10:34:09 PM
I just enlarged the structural bars, two sections further inside the fuselage. Now its time for the cockpit door....


Title: Re: 1/48 57th GIAP Spitfire MK.Vb over the Kunban 1943
Post by: 4bogreen on January 11, 2016, 09:13:52 AM
Hey guys!

Well, i have gone further with the cockpit works. Photo time!!! :D

(http://s20.postimg.org/4xwebmw8p/20151226_211951.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/4xwebmw8p/)

(http://s20.postimg.org/7te2w8pmh/20151226_212049.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/7te2w8pmh/)

(http://s20.postimg.org/9mgzkkat5/20151226_212413.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/9mgzkkat5/)

(http://s20.postimg.org/dwvng5fw9/20151226_212712.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/dwvng5fw9/)

(http://s20.postimg.org/l1dgp6n5l/20151226_212809.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/l1dgp6n5l/)

(http://s20.postimg.org/k0d802661/20160110_151340.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/k0d802661/)

(http://s20.postimg.org/3qn1x5vi1/20160110_151405.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/3qn1x5vi1/)

(http://s20.postimg.org/u084fyhfd/20160110_151434.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/u084fyhfd/)

(http://s20.postimg.org/gxchwor7d/20160110_151510.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/gxchwor7d/)

All the works has been done in acryllics. Only turp/enamel based paint are the metal colors from Exracolor and Alclad. Lets hope its spitfire worthy. I just put the two side halves thoughetter. To make the resin cockpit fit on the sides was a whole lot of work. Troy was right when he mention that the kit was very tricky, to fit the foreign parts. now i have to sand down the bottom and sidewalls of the cockpit to make the wings fit the fuselage. With only the landing gear leggs as a possible problem, i think the rest will go like it should be (i hope  ;) )

Regards,

Remco


Title: Re: 1/48 57th GIAP Spitfire MK.Vb over the Kunban 1943
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on January 11, 2016, 07:43:41 PM
Hi Remco,
Nice to see the progress on your model. The details of the cockpit are impressive.
Please, copy and glue your post on the clone forum if you want that it lasts, because this one is expected to vanish soon.
Regards
Massimo



Title: Re: 1/48 57th GIAP Spitfire MK.Vb over the Kunban 1943
Post by: 4bogreen on January 13, 2016, 10:47:24 PM
Hi Massimo,

I got it!!

Regards,

Remco