Sovietwarplanes

Hi guys!

One of my recently finished models. This one is a two-seat Il-2 with straight wings, so called "doska". Dako kit built OOB. The model shows this interesting plane as I believe it possible looked like. Such is depicted in the Ilyushin Il-2 Shturmovik book published by MMP. Decals used here are my own production.

Cheers,
Viktor

(http://modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1144831)
(http://modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1144830)
(http://modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1144842)
(http://modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1144841)

Hi Viktor,
very nice model. It is one of my preferred examples for this version of the plane.
The custom decals look perfectly adequate. It is a very interesting possibility to make something new.
Regards
Massimo

Thank you, Massimo.
Regarding to this plane one question for you and anybody with Il-2 knowledge. If the green/brown camouflage did not exist, where did the rear fuselage section come from? Does not look like any of the 1943 standard schemes. Both you and me came to the same conclusion - green/brown - anyway. Any idea on that?

BR
Viktor

Excellent model, Viktor! I've also done 'White 24' (mine isn't as nice as yours, however). It's been speculated that this aeroplane was extensively repaired, with a new rear fuselage and new right aileron, for example. It may have been during this repair that some attempt was made to make it closer to the new 'three-colour' late 1943 scheme, which was supposed to be AMT-12 Dark Grey, AMT-1 Light Brown, and AMT-4 Green over AMT-7 Blue (as you know, of course). Here, instead of completely repainting it, they left the AMT-6 Black, as that was probably considered close enough to the AMT-12 colour.

Regards,

Jason

Hi,
I agree, the plane is said to have been photographed in 1944, so they tried to adequate the camouflage to the new standard
Regards
Massimo

Thank you, gentlemen!
Your explanation sounds possible.
Two more of my favourite Il-2s will follow - KSS "Mstitel" and KSS flown by Pavlov. Both Tamiya kits, one 1/72 and one 1/48 scale.

BR
Viktor

nice model , Viktor !
you can't go wrong with a Dakoplast Shturmovik :thumbsup:

A great model ! :)

I myself am doing one, at the same scale, I hope to get that result :)

Thank you guys!

Dako is still one of the best in 1/72 thanks to its wooden wings, both straight and arrow. The surface details are very fine. Some details, like rockets with rails, canopy, guns barrels, UBT, need to be replaced. However all this is rather easy so the final model looks very good.

Jirokoh, good luck with yours!

Viktor

Thanks !

I forgot to ask you, but do you have some pictures of the build ? :) I'd be curios to see some of the build steps :)

Nope, I do not, sorry. Maybe I can at least highlight some points where an extra attention is needed.

- Cockpit has quite nice details so it deserves a better instrument panel (I used one from Smer?s Hi-Tech PE set) and seat belts (used ones from the same PE set). Adding side walls would be good as there are just "holes" to wings (I did not on this one). Adding some details in gunner's compartment is not a bad idea as well (I did not on this one).
- Propeller spinner has been replaced with one from Eduard's kit.
- The same kit became a donor of the clear canopy parts. Some care is needed to fit the wind screen and the mid part above the fuel tank (open canopy is a good camouflage for its poor fit).
- Rockets with rails come from Smer?s kit. Original parts are rather useless. The same for bombs with bomb racks.
- Outer wings fit to midsection is rather poor. Careful here.
- Rudder mass balance replaced with a scratchbuilt one.
- Gun barrels and pitot tube from injection needles.
- If possible replace the exhausts.
- If possible replace the UBT machine gun (I did not on this one) with mounting and ammo box.
- MLG struts are rather fragile so be careful. I did break one :/
- I've re-scribed the outer wings reinforcing belts. MMP book is a good reference here (scale drawings).
- Replace the wing-root dust filter.
- Drill the openings for spent cartridges on the wing undersides.
- The wings-to-fuselage joint is rather nasty. Filling and sanding ahead!
- Panel lines are very fine, some almost gone and need to be re-scribed. Same for rivets.
- Add the VV-1 gun-sight.

Dako "Il-2M" kit is the most suitable for a two-seater of late Zavod 30 production. The kit has corresponding wooden outer wings (reinforcement belts missing), wooden rear fuselage, midsection of later type, gunner's canopy of later type, short tail landing gear fairing. Use the taller antenna mast and VYa-23 guns.
If you want to build a late two-seater of Zavod 1 you need to correct the tail landing gear fairing.
If you want to build early production aircraft from Zavod 1/30 you need to modify the midsection and use the correct gunner's canopy (or build a machine with this part removed). Shorter antenna mast and ShVAK cannons should be used.
Building a Zavod 18 aircraft would be the most complicated option as you need to re-scribe the metal outer wings panel lines. Always metal outer wings and VYa-23 cannons for Zavod 18 aircraft, regardless if single seater, two seater with straight wings or KSS.
This was a brief extract (if I missed something important, gentlemen experts here will add it for sure), scale drawings and detail description for each modification can be found in the MMP book ;)

This is my first Dako kit built. I have 3 more. As now I'm familiar with its strenghts and weak points, I know what is awaiting me and hope for better results :)


Viktor

Hi Viktor, very interesting description. So the kit requires a donor for many small pieces.
I wonder if a kitbashing with Smer's wings could help to make a metallic wings plane. Anyway, the wooden wings look more interesting also because they are rare between the kits representing Il-2s.
Regards
Massimo

Hi Massimo,
yes, that's right. You can use either spare parts from other kits or aftermarket stuff.
Eduard's "Il-2m3" offers two propeller spinners and two sets of canopy clear parts, even the old "tunnel" one for the gunner.
Toko's single seater has 4-stack exhausts molded on the fuselage, so the 6-stack ones can be used as well as the UBT.
Toko/Eastern Express/Zvezda two seater offers the full set of 8 rockets with rails moreover rockets of two types, so you have 4 rails free to use and plenty of rockets.
Smer offers nice selection of external load you will not use all on the same kit, so some free parts remain.

Regarding to the aftermarket stuff. Exhausts (vitally needed for Dako) are available (QB or Eduard), propeller spinner with blades is offered by Raresin (not sure about availability, at least occasionally on eBay), gun barrels and pitot tube by QB. Eduard offers nice PE sets (not intended for Dako anyway, hawever at least the set for interior should be usable). Finally Pavla offers vacu canopy for "Il-2m3" Zvezda/Eastern Express/Toko (eventual fit is questionable as this kit has the clear canopy moulded in different way). There are also some wheels available but I personally don't think they are essentially needed.
Pity there's no UBT (maybe Eduard will downscale the 1/48 scale Brassin one) so far and no dust filter (one from the Academy single seater kit can be used if you do not use it on the single seater, what you will not in many many cases).

Some pictures regarding to the replacement parts.
Here you can see propeller spinners as offered in (from left to right) Dako, Smer, Toko, Eduard kits.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/OIy6RV0V9ZjKZ3gWXt5YGWF330RFDMuvWP43jGoAp7H8HvMfKc14itDlmfflu9e8AnVLfexBngBOKxVMHjof_tIO7Nht8QF5n3cGgTrerbYXTfU0Qjy2SoxROhSHD8fb2J0UqVFPdDZrL6Kp7RODlBzutbldSw5H1vzFF0_mKVT9CZLx4AzYyA_UVHDXCwb53xG8bOpzmF1fIMrDqXy_4UFVt6nO7PQnkgOsinw8XJi1xAnyORlDHjIE-aQnM9K26VYJ_Cl-FKrclQCf_20tTXyZej25hTn8zoq6Hn3qU7fgVAcfJ45LbI2GJXZuNe2gqh6mfes4zcNJkE5UOiC-9MG5KJdiJITAjLE2DQVCR_FNikzd9Jw5Irx-MYBGKcoVSYENPKpyUTaGCMubcGceA95nsWPr2OlFbkCy-F53JyVfIfycYf75VCW2ANrdONXKqVTginlDgTDusFVR9pZT-HWS1YSbfb7bhxivYjxwUVZDdg5VlGLPY5w2ePuN8dupd86R6ckv8PxB2YOMLwBdsYEix1fh2yfzij1RF3GPhvEQ-qkPUMKfS-LLaLUQ553L9tgD=w1366-h486-no)

Note the Dako's one. Almost no details visible. On contrary the defects are clearly visible (next to each opening for blade).
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/xQ-E2JaEQ9NWg9r8I9rsDzV0IOODiSDs6RBVVfJ1JN66y-WcQSELV20zQu5sh4XhNnb9aAaBj_oi33k6hMAZFKtCpRW_oIGQna_9Luev7jLR0HdBx9Djyby2YYz401x1L46EqCQy4-7yX_0DQDMuJgLv4uqgoc9JjvM0_iuoY2EIyhNodRFAQIKlQ7ecZJOmrDd3tVx50zQh_Q8PWkApKurcOnlL6UJVBJyjKFD5HsFU6uyRkCaBfVTunYRCr-jD58JpfKYXVpN0tLXfKbGIlmJ70TR25Dae0yrFhCoHC5BaLx5HLhMskNQ0KasfAyHgLa0HyTXBlCnyiczoYgSO9RaFsEz--u76vAjuX9bp1fur3roHtjsWiFeBLSfY1AIWjUg8_inBy4eZSAGENqTdDhQVbfyVh11JyoBX1aNQdz73EbM2mp4Y6igxlmDhdwKgLXzLam41r2CKa9nGji0LAkacukBCQpX4m0-vh1HcuX21M7tdiyGpml2Qhf7sJtZrPmF76GYArzRXj2sdQY5RaHwsHGuaU3A58XOIeyN9zqXqKTSUGhGGfn8nQ67o-1UU-Lf_=w776-h658-no)

UBT as offered by Dako, Toko and Eduard. Again, Dako plastic is very fragile. I've broken the barrel few seconds ago >:(
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Ub-HfuntfKKas7W5ZL3R_3MJFZQckcU1fE0lv7BAhCBaPfCDEXDIm61M5C5tDeTSwCM_dJuZnQvqFz-5KGSZz2_megfJEhS8ZaFozDtBXfQ-W0FhtzKuP0pu_mg-lNLUy45JnKSH-jw3YaUtbNW2CdvyEoU4P8IBOrMdigthA-Qf6zFA7p8OQ0N4saR6LfZ73W6o3_QMiHijsPt3trSWvaKBMJdKU6SvxfmTq0CfSCMkV3Q8MfHCLy7XyE1AJwKxBZVgGvg9iOnqw77ZICDDlWriculM6YzuE2_8640gWvl8YQbwpFq0xV1vuJMx6ExRbA2hEgAwSe8yRv7vseC7ZdWHIm2bteq2AcWd8vdxiEwhupXyGtIflVi5gtfQ3yMGAW087gJm3vElGdOySP8fPGqZgig1hLkwPRB6MjgBfqQjYVAbrlhlO5D80UYNsGvG2Z1fVdOJdghF4tqVyaq9gqR4e656c68LuN5Mj2iaWFLw4gqV8k64q7iv4Py8z7hg_abN4a2oJYMWSeE6nNcS7C2WQdyOjD7xzHKKfzDuS1dUGXBidIfnUqwiGeR2956Z2aEo=w1286-h658-no)

Quality of clear parts is visible. Definitely need to be replaced.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_x3joVn4gbpSiwuN8PgVGU87tx_4uIp36l2XdEJX6WqLV1Vzq4Bu42fi5-SwFzXR_t18t8q9RTvCdSNzfI4v0oyvR_XXceobXexIhHTGhUkjwqEIJDIrfsCP_YzHoVJAzl3h57fhbWM0toc0hgjVVl-bKYfSww02lnRrCIvE1OasvnnXkFelvRA0PCbkpSh2QYtFcBZzcHy-XaOFlxqeXIZfYqr2OHdNXnR6SnTSsjFxgbyZNoUZhxCuUb_L3MPIUbRp48C7j0UV-_uHS1Yv-GC3ZPv5Tg9871vnaYG_F8meIE-NDw1eeiZmm6-txYbqpbv1-CbKDSG3KtgPvIK7n_xHPmr48XMT3iKuybMG-ylyWgdafztn0TCecJBNg90U7bZmFQL6xaZ-WIjpT2ezYK52wCJLUcCAfp2cspY9cncxatH5N5ySXXxycB_pbJ-EyP7ngIuoXt3968A3OnB78sOv981NsPfpfP_rlFbQxeJ9UFASzm1zx0uyylZg2u2yOlkw7qC8UxQzfzHtHjVQu7shgsZfZWhKim_3x4Qruz7Zo1daHwVt84S5frSx65ezB6yw=w878-h658-no)

Attaching the Smer's metal wings looks fine from a distance...
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/sMxOW5vS9vwq-hKki2IsZ1nKci317MyhXRMEsp9tmOElEbA6Q5M_d975ey7_n08--iiE_1Quillb3grYdVszhtFGKWl70ws-azzhTQaxjJxZJgIDIQnKO9XpfnmQaMiMPRFOXWu4393efrlT0ouoNi0IsEKeUMK9Bsr2qj9IlLQpkpQm9ZNYfe6H0B163AnLgMbMfwZ-B6Ml0vxZ6Jd0PP22nd7mvZ9gAADNd0ogm6nU9oR8MECRRsEQVvk_CRa899gTTEb7rSJXZ5t5hb3mG96E0vOTyM0P6h-7a3RUdtFVhXu72_S9wb8fK8FMyDtx4beDLFsPO76rPkcD2LDwPsPjFbRybKqVc0aC-JCbu8q0YH2jpr9pjZV6_NpEG3QqoVR7i1uiUDZr38gaiC4pKc5QFLknC3roAp7fRpX1YNgLrauBEJ4CcKSKe8ToWU7W5BIX41vp0uy1VahdUBHfEaBc5JPWqtmz2UXqN-dogQ2uDVs7PPwvDDyK9TzcMzevzMdYFJ99CUkvHeePtHTEvrXWy6vho4T9Lt4ZNCHFftJvM_gnNSuTt_fH1tW5gFxvYUFh=w552-h658-no)

...but it won't be so easy. I would vote for re-scribing the original parts instead.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/u2Y75QaFzC6BxBgVXylYJOh4Rawu3QR403E3_mlG2TflYiAwGBYZkiO2BVnrArkXQ7RDaMyfTxmnHppADUgldbu3ke5nty7q_AJSt7vShnh-1fQdwmH2DP96YhAMxdl2tj5s2HMRHKjftRp3dLTdMYLZHvf0FVLJTeNeqsDSKfqUuVL2brlsu1SZqrMbXxfFyFbuiKrPPs1xb7lY8XgshTtNZ35JDcW7C_dTAZ47e078lSWVjQg3xI3eYyz9N-mDBocPBDec1GTfIURemIcJEgfDLgNlSE3Adckl7dcZO82le4gy8_FwqOd-hEmBWgCRWDuZ7w2wM9uaHot7NC1GgAhOwX8iRpIeKMS9_1OQEH9eMAgkiGzsu5PMyYF4mjy-sTdaIdvCTHhGanxoPKxfANQBoT1uoshUB-jYehWoOnHZAXU8PqXwSBg6F_bqCvPInPTFNXCYSLz-QmouNMV1JHjAKiidCGXL0xnuV6h0TMA4SChVCJAM6vZsnFYuRBaQRZSA7aksk4SSVLAarTlqtdui80KFP7d495OkT6MMvOfrqaQUjziWl7fgDbolkgyn5GJ2=w607-h658-no)

Off-topic: I have some sets of ski landing gear (nacelles and skis, no MLG struts) in my spare box. If anyone wants to build a Dako single seater with ski landing gear, I can offer them as below.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/MX_9jxyAX0OfaxnyZrlLrGhf69ZKluG2GZAzZ_56q1F5RBKSHzc_109b71DTc6GqnBYsXhQy79PM8vz4pmkOeD65MUW9ew0OHGQhisUGjTbc7rJ32rDSErL7D1-5YFBt8hdnIn6Mvyxi-uVEnPbEOYSNOD2Nz83ejpP00-2OGqD6m0PumOYiqh3WlPukTSCH2mHO0uIyjEpNs8lAaS6edGev1FydAV8j3fDZ_LianQlNoBmfxe-gSZEHCZEgawmWz3xX1juvZ4tFbNlxmqwoB25dzUj5sGEB0CxJwMlX4CdPlOhc2MuD4gU9D0lavAKfSUQ860N3TQHMTzqVy82PDb2C8oMgjeCy2wJx-FsuBOGPmVvgkCsa2mzLWwE18sQKoYLGu04RFUrfkem6d9xj94Dy0rmtkjtck0wfk9cBXCfK7SaST5o5Xo1BgQPTfTpvm7cHwGZ0gvzVdIfGtnwAwlKcjtCs3cwo1XjXwuCBvzxGT_XjJqMx3kJCDqdZTR2icIc_ByZzBKOuLFxDozsxPS7bm8YrPYoqn_wlSlSPYMIIJXaSrmloEEBmOXpjq7ZFW0QB=w991-h658-no)

Viktor

Resin 1/72 Il-2 prop and spinner also available from Prop&Jet:
http://modelsua.com/Ilyshin-Il-2-Bark-Shturmovik-propeller-1-72-Prop-and-Jet-RR001.html

John

This may be a stupid question, but what is the MMP book ?  ???  :-[

Here with some preview   ;)

http://mmpbooks.biz/ksiazki/262 (http://mmpbooks.biz/ksiazki/262)

Thanks ! It looks really interesting, with lots of close-ups at the end  :)

It was written with modeler?s needs in aim  8)

Hi, I have a copy as a gift by Viktor, and it is a very good book.
I've never received a copy of the book of Jason, till now, so I can't make comparisons.
Regards
Massimo

I'm now "in reading" of Jason's book. It is evident, and Jason would agree, these two books complement each other. There are things you'll find in one that absent in the second one and vice versa. Of course, many things are common, both books are about the same plane  ;D So the conclusion is one needs to have both of them.

Viktor

I bought an Eastern Express Il-2 on eBay, thinking it would be the Dakoplast kit, but it turned out to be the Toko kit. Is there anyone who knows which Eastern Express boxings are the Dakoplast kits?

I don't have any of the Eastern Express reboxings, but a web search turned up enough sprue photos for the EE kits that I was able to compare these with my Toko and Dakoplast original boxings. As best I can determine, here's what I learned (and I beg forgiveness for using outdated, but familiar and useful, Il-2 type terminology):
EE72214 - Il-2 single-seater - Dakoplast
EE72215 - Il-2m two-seater with straight wings - Dakoplast
EE72216 - Il-2m3 two-seater with swept ("arrow") wings - can be either Dakoplast or Toko! Both have the same box art; the only difference without opening the box is the presence or absence of a small "DAKO" logo in the bottom left corner, beside the "Eastern Express" logo.
EE72217 - Il-2m3 with NS-37 cannons - Dakoplast

If you can see the fuselage halves or an image of them, the easiest way to distinguish Toko from Dakoplast is that Dakoplast kits have a crescent-shaped cutout into which the wing root (part of the wing upper surface) fits on assembly. The Toko fuselage has a square, flat-bottomed appearance, because the wing fits in a more conventional butt-joint.

Zvezda Il-2m3 = reboxed Toko, by the way. There's also a Zvezda Il-2m3 with NS-37 which is the same Toko kit, with the cannons on a separate added sprue.

I believe there was also a Dakoplast "Il-2T" (T for torpedo) but I haven't seen any sign of that one being available as an Eastern Express product, although EE72217 does include the torpedo halves.

I hope this is helpful; I also hope that anyone who knows more or sees errors in what I've posted will correct me quickly!

Page from Hobby.dn.ua web site with EE Il-2 kits having sprue images for each kit:
http://www.hobby.dn.ua/?current_page=2&items_per_page=20&sort=1&search_text=Il-2&f_price2=100000

John

Thank you!

As for aftermarket UBT there is one in Mini World rather pricy cast bronze gun range:
MINA7210 UBT:
https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/MINA7210

MINA7211 UBS:
https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/MINA7211

I have their DA-2 coupled mount on TUR-5 ring (cast bronze and PE) and ShKAS machine-gun on TUR-9 ring mount. Very pricy but worth every penny when built. It is just that i would go broke if i would want to equip my TB-3 and all my kits that would needs replacement

This might be of interest - a set of SIX DA-2's on TUR-5 rings, intended for the TB-1, for what seems like a very reasonable price compared with buying 6 of them separately:
http://modelsua.com/Set-of-guns-DA-2-on-turrets-TUR-5-for-TB-1-1-72-Mini-World-7242.html

John

Dakoplast kits come in the small white box (and will have Dakoplast label) and have a parts count of between 88 and 100
Toko kits come in large blue boxes (without Dakoplast label) and only have approximately 76 parts.
the same stock numbers are used for both so you need to SEE it before you buy it.

the Toko kit is a quick,easy and simple kit--the only thing it's got going for it.