Sovietwarplanes

Modeling Soviet Warplanes => Colors, schemes, & research => Topic started by: Kathemy on September 07, 2016, 04:30:06 PM



Title: Early Soviet warplanes in Chinese service
Post by: Kathemy on September 07, 2016, 04:30:06 PM
Hello, this is my first "real" post in this forum.

I'm a newbie modeller working together with a veteran builder. I am working on my first kit, an Airfix IL-28 (not a stellar kit,) and after some discussion I floated the idea to base my first warplane collection on something fairly limited, i.e. it would be possible to build a reasonably complete collection over an acceptable timeframe. The problem is finding the right insignia, the right colors and the right models of the machines. Any advice or insight is welcome.

The concept I chose was "Soviet warplanes supplied to the People's Republic of China by Joseph Stalin."

The IL-28 is one of these planes so it fits right in. We're painting it green with blue underbelly as it's normally displayed on wingspalette.

Apart from this plane we've come up with some other models to build.

La-9 and La-11.
Pe-2. I'm unsure which model was given to China, the Pe-2-359? I can't find a specific kit for that.
Yak-9 (Which versions? Yak-9P?)
MiG-9, MiG-15, MiG-17, MiG-19, MiG-21.
IL-10. (VyA+ShKAS or NS-23 cannons in front? Rear UBT machine gun or B-20 cannon?)
Tu-2. (Again, which versions...)

Are there any trainer versions of any of the planes above available as kits?

Can you think of any good suggestions for planes to build and good kits to purchase? How about earlier planes?

All the best, Thomas


Title: Re: Early Soviet warplanes in Chinese service
Post by: AlexGRD on September 07, 2016, 04:54:06 PM
Hi, Thomas!
As my knowledge Pe-2 and early versions of Yak-9 were never operated by Chinese air forces.

But between 1937-1940 an important number of "volunteers" soviet pilots/technicians (total 3665 / 195 dead in combat) and airplanes has participated in Sino-Japanese war.
At that time USSR has delivered to nationalist China the following types (some produced under license in Northern China) :
Polikarpov R-5
Polikarpov I-15bis (I-152)
Polikarpov I-153 Tchaika
Polikarpov I-16 (types 5, 10, 17 and UTI-4)
Polikarpov U-2/Po-2
Ilyushin DB-3A (early models)
Tupolev TB-3 heavy bomber
Tupolev ANT-40 / SB-2 in different versions (with M-100 and M-103 engines)
Yakovlev UT-1 & UT-2 trainers
Lisounov Li-2 transporter (soviet built DC-3) in limited number

It's after end of WWII that USSR has restarted deliveries of airplanes to China since 1949.
Regarding scale models you forgot to specify the scale ::)


Title: Re: Early Soviet warplanes in Chinese service
Post by: Kathemy on September 07, 2016, 05:15:20 PM
1/72. Sorry ;-)

I think I'm restricting myself right now to planes supplied to the CCP.

As for the Peshka wingspalette holds it that http://wp.scn.ru/en/ww2/b/265/30/0#1

Thanks for the information! :-)


Title: Re: Early Soviet warplanes in Chinese service
Post by: AlexGRD on September 07, 2016, 05:40:37 PM
it is quite possible that few Pe-2 were transferred to China since 1946 but nothing is known about their operational status or insignias.


Title: Re: Early Soviet warplanes in Chinese service
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on September 08, 2016, 08:04:36 AM
Hi Thomas,
I've never seen a Chinese Pe-2 before.
There are good color photos of Chinese Il-10 onthe web. http://www.flugzeuginfo.net/acimages/il10_paulchandler.jpg (http://www.flugzeuginfo.net/acimages/il10_paulchandler.jpg) Here is one, but there are other and better images of the same photographer, I think on Airliner.net.
About Tu-2, there is a page here: http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/tu-2/misos/china/china.htm (http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/tu-2/misos/china/china.htm). The planes seem of the later version with 4-blades propellers.
Some photos of Chinese La-9 and 11, including twoseaters, can be found on Lavochkin piston-engined fighters. They are museum exhibits, so I think that they can be foudnd by googling.
I haven't found photos of any version of Yak-9 with Chinese markings, but there is a note on a book saying that they received Yak-9P

Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: Early Soviet warplanes in Chinese service
Post by: AC26 on September 09, 2016, 03:31:33 PM
Hello all,

There is a four part book-series called "Encyclopedia of Chinese Aircraft" IIRC. Great reference but there is one big problem if you are not a Chinese-speaker...

According to this CCP didn't have Yak-9s or Pe-2s. In addition to Thomas list there were at least La-7UTI, Li-2, Yak-11, Yak-18, UT-2 if we limit to Stalin's time. Later there were also at least An-2, Be-6/12, Il-12/14, Po-2, Tu-4, Tu-16.

Cheers,

AaCee


Title: Re: Early Soviet warplanes in Chinese service
Post by: han9 on September 12, 2016, 01:17:22 PM
I have tried Пе-2 Китай, Пе-2 Воздушные силы Народно-освободительной армии and similar but other than general info about the fact of delivery nothing else is known.

In other words while many sources list the Pe 2 as delivered to China there is virtual absence of any meaningful data in this regard as opposed to the Tu 2.

This may lead to the conclusion that it originated somewhere by mistake and has been repeated since. It would also explain the lack of any details ? there are simply none to report.

BTW ? are you a Chinese speaker  AC26 ?


Title: Re: Early Soviet warplanes in Chinese service
Post by: AC26 on September 12, 2016, 08:22:55 PM
I have tried Пе-2 Китай, Пе-2 Воздушные силы Народно-освободительной армии and similar but other than general info about the fact of delivery nothing else is known.

In other words while many sources list the Pe 2 as delivered to China there is virtual absence of any meaningful data in this regard as opposed to the Tu 2.

This may lead to the conclusion that it originated somewhere by mistake and has been repeated since. It would also explain the lack of any details ? there are simply none to report.
Hi han9,

I have ended to the same conclusion. On the other hand I usually believe that whatever country we are talking about the native writer's would likely have the best information.

BTW ? are you a Chinese speaker  AC26 ?
Unfortunately not. After reading 1400 pages of those books situation might be slightly better ;o)

Cheers,

AaCee


Title: Re: Early Soviet warplanes in Chinese service
Post by: han9 on September 15, 2016, 09:40:45 AM
I wish you all the best with learning Chinese. You are absolutely correct that not being able to read original sources in a given nation?s language is a serious limitation.
 
Chinese aviation is very interesting in its own right while at the same time it is inseparably interlinked with Soviet (now days Russian) aviation.

So again all the best with your efforts and in due time let us know what you were able to find out.


Title: Re: Early Soviet warplanes in Chinese service
Post by: Kathemy on September 30, 2016, 02:27:19 PM
Hi, just wanted to say that we're done with the first model, the Airfix IL-28. I bought an Eduard profipack MiG-15 now, it should come in the mail any day. :-)


Title: Re: Early Soviet warplanes in Chinese service
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on October 01, 2016, 02:36:08 PM
Hi,
could you upload images of it, please?
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: Early Soviet warplanes in Chinese service
Post by: Kathemy on October 04, 2016, 08:00:35 AM
I'm on it. I misplaced the battery to my DSLR camera and my mobile phone only takes absolute crap pictures.

For now this is "in construction" pictures, I'll post real ones once I've fixed my Pentax.

http://kathemy.tumblr.com/post/150372985951/ilyushin-il-28-jet-bomber-chinese-service-airfix


Title: Re: Early Soviet warplanes in Chinese service
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on October 04, 2016, 09:27:40 AM
Hi,
has it the original Chinese decals of Airfix?
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: Early Soviet warplanes in Chinese service
Post by: Kathemy on October 04, 2016, 12:47:26 PM
No, the decals are grabbed from my friend's Trumpeteer IL-28 kit (which is a fair deal better.) I sort of think they look a bit too small, though.

The main changes are replacing the figures with better ones (the original Airfix figures suck and they have no legs), building a simple joystick for the pilot (the Airfix model has no control set at all) and adding correct antennae.

The parts fit sort of decently but required heavy sandpapering at some places to make it smooth. The wheels were very poor so we built the model in flying position without them.

Oh and we cut out an opening behind the cockpit and added glass to it because we saw that in pictures even though we really don't know what that's for.


Title: Re: Early Soviet warplanes in Chinese service
Post by: Kathemy on December 11, 2016, 04:11:40 PM
Final pictures of the kit, fixed my Pentax.

(https://68.media.tumblr.com/3bc4e996ee048867085685613765a066/tumblr_oi10eqdcJ61un06lao2_540.jpg)

(https://68.media.tumblr.com/dc66891685f8428be75005deb7362b72/tumblr_oi10eqdcJ61un06lao1_400.jpg) (https://68.media.tumblr.com/6989c33204eef96e86a91d302ccd45c3/tumblr_oi10eqdcJ61un06lao6_400.jpg)

(https://68.media.tumblr.com/9de20f591c555122b8067fa6cc06bfd9/tumblr_oi10eqdcJ61un06lao3_540.jpg)

(https://68.media.tumblr.com/78e7584a0998f54a210ee4033480ca9c/tumblr_oi10eqdcJ61un06lao8_400.jpg) (https://68.media.tumblr.com/da8d48bfbf080dd27da751c4c01963b5/tumblr_oi10eqdcJ61un06lao9_400.jpg)

(https://68.media.tumblr.com/ec7c127eee0b54278506f460a0799784/tumblr_oi10eqdcJ61un06lao5_540.jpg)

(https://68.media.tumblr.com/39987bd899d03b28b1d66e6d210339f4/tumblr_oi10eqdcJ61un06lao7_540.jpg)

http://kathemy.tumblr.com/post/154332176171/ilyushin-il-28-beast-50s-jet-bomber-in-chinese <- for bigger images.

Soon done with my Eduard MiG-15!


Title: Re: Early Soviet warplanes in Chinese service
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on December 12, 2016, 06:37:37 AM
Hi,
nice vintage kit.
Maybe a layer of clear paint over all could uniformize the decals film.
Regards
Massimo