Sovietwarplanes

Pre-GPW Aviation => Biplane fighters of '20s and '30s => Topic started by: Papertiger59 on October 03, 2016, 01:05:26 PM



Title: VVS Fokker D.VII in the 20's . Which shade of green ?
Post by: Papertiger59 on October 03, 2016, 01:05:26 PM
Hi there.

What would be the green covering the VVS Fokker D.VII ? Fokker factory green, or a soviet shade ?

Regards,

Chris.


Title: Re: VVS Fokker D.VII in the 20's . Which shade of green ?
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on October 04, 2016, 09:25:38 AM
Hi Chris,
if the Fokkers were from German stocks, they were likely repainted. 
The earlier shade reproduced by Akan was from a plane of mid '30s was a 'khaki', I would call it an olive green or olive drab. I doubt that camouflage was standardized then, so I would go with any dark olive green.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: VVS Fokker D.VII in the 20's . Which shade of green ?
Post by: xan on October 04, 2016, 10:54:28 AM
for before 1937 green, I use Gunze H423, RLM 83

(http://nsm08.casimages.com/img/2014/09/24//14092411155514768312552902.jpg)

Xan


Title: Re: VVS Fokker D.VII in the 20's . Which shade of green ?
Post by: Papertiger59 on October 05, 2016, 01:22:23 AM
Hi !

Thanks guys.

I'm pretty sure the soviet D.VII were bought from the Fokker factory in the Netherlands. I think I'll go for a green close to the D.VII used by the Dutch Air Corps, like the one in the museum at Soesterberg.

Regards,

Chris.


Title: Re: VVS Fokker D.VII in the 20's . Which shade of green ?
Post by: KL on October 06, 2016, 07:51:02 AM
From scalemodels.ru forum:

(http://scalemodels.ru/images/2015/03/1425240734_Fokker-D.jpg)

(http://scalemodels.ru/images/2015/03/1425240732_Fokker-D.jpg)


Title: Re: VVS Fokker D.VII in the 20's . Which shade of green ?
Post by: Papertiger59 on October 06, 2016, 09:18:39 AM
Thanks KL.

This is the KV decals inctruction sheet, isn't it ?

Regards, Chris.


Title: Re: VVS Fokker D.VII in the 20's . Which shade of green ?
Post by: xan on October 06, 2016, 10:44:07 AM
I'am not very far isn't it?
Xan


Title: Re: VVS Fokker D.VII in the 20's . Which shade of green ?
Post by: Papertiger59 on October 06, 2016, 08:46:27 PM
After checking references about Fokker D.VIIs build after war in the Netherlands (from parts taken from fokker german factory in Schwerin), and turning to the "new built" D.VIIs (46 for the Dutch Air Services, 50 sold to the Soviet Union), I think I'll go for an olive drab in the like of RAL 6014... (Source IPMS Stockholm -Dutch Colours).

Regards,

Chris.




Title: Re: VVS Fokker D.VII in the 20's . Which shade of green ?
Post by: KL on October 08, 2016, 09:04:56 AM
photos from http://www.airpages.ru/people/rafalovich2.shtml

(http://www.airpages.ru/people/fokker_d7_137.jpg)

(http://www.airpages.ru/people/fokker_d7_175.jpg)

(http://www.airpages.ru/people/fokker_d7_174.jpg)

(http://www.airpages.ru/people/fokker_d7_176.jpg)

(http://www.airpages.ru/people/fokker_d7_180.jpg)


Title: Re: VVS Fokker D.VII in the 20's . Which shade of green ?
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on October 08, 2016, 09:37:40 AM
Hi,
interesting images. The undersurfaces are painted with a light color, and the red stars seem outlined black as on planes of the '30s.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: VVS Fokker D.VII in the 20's . Which shade of green ?
Post by: KL on October 09, 2016, 06:44:48 AM
... The undersurfaces are painted with a light color, and the red stars seem outlined black as on planes of the '30s.

on some photos undersides are clearly light colour (presumably light blue...), on others undersides are dark colour, same as the upper surfaces

(http://xn--80aafy5bs.xn--p1ai/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/9.Fokker-DVII-VVS-RKKA..jpg)

(http://xn--80aafy5bs.xn--p1ai/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/10.Fokker-D.VII-VVS-RKKA-na-stoyankah..jpg)

(http://xn--80aafy5bs.xn--p1ai/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/10a...jpg)

last image is dated as August 1927.

Thread about VVS RKKA Fokker D-VII at http://scalemodels.ru/modules/forum/viewtopic_t_44956_start_0.html with probably all known photos

(http://top.scalemodels.ru/images/2013/04/1366910071_5-2.jpg)


Title: Re: VVS Fokker D.VII in the 20's . Which shade of green ?
Post by: Papertiger59 on October 09, 2016, 09:25:28 AM
Hello !

Thanks a lot for the pics, KL.

In my own humble opinion, the planes were delivered in Fokker factory finish of overall green. One can see the "lift here" tags at the end of the lower wingtip on the first pictures. As the soviet tried te rebuild and bolster their Air Force, I think they started using the planes as delivered (Overall green). Then the more usal top green/blue undersurfaces was applied, throught maintenance. The green/blue D.VIIs seem to be part of airschools, but may be I'm wrong.

Regards,

Chris.


Title: Re: VVS Fokker D.VII in the 20's . Which shade of green ?
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on October 09, 2016, 02:02:44 PM
Hi,
some of the planes seem to have the German logenze camouflage and markings deleted by spraying another paint (as n.1).
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: VVS Fokker D.VII in the 20's . Which shade of green ?
Post by: Papertiger59 on October 09, 2016, 04:03:50 PM
Hello Massimo.

Can you be more precise ? I'm personaly not able to find lozenge, nor repainted markings. As far as the story goes  Anthony Fokker managed to smuggle six goods train's worth of D.VII and C.I military planes and spare parts out of Germany across the German-Dutch border. But were the already build planes, or just the parts and engine to build them ?


Kind regards, Chris.




Title: Re: VVS Fokker D.VII in the 20's . Which shade of green ?
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on October 09, 2016, 08:39:37 PM
Hi Chris,
(http://авиару.рф/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/10.Fokker-D.VII-VVS-RKKA-na-stoyankah..jpg)
this image shows something that could seem a remain of a lozenge camouflage with repaintings on.
To be sure, one should have the original print to check if they are real,or artifacts appeared due to a partial restoration of the image.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: VVS Fokker D.VII in the 20's . Which shade of green ?
Post by: KL on October 10, 2016, 09:17:56 AM
...
In my own humble opinion, the planes were delivered in Fokker factory finish of overall green. One can see the "lift here" tags at the end of the lower wingtip on the first pictures. As the soviet tried te rebuild and bolster their Air Force, I think they started using the planes as delivered (Overall green). Then the more usal top green/blue undersurfaces was applied, throught maintenance. The green/blue D.VIIs seem to be part of airschools, but may be I'm wrong.


True, in spring 1922 when Fokkers arrived to Soviet Union, Zavod "Aerolak" hasn't even started with the production of green nitrocellulose varnish. Check following photo - Fokkers are the only dark (presumably green) planes in the lineup:
 
(http://www.redov.ru/transport_i_aviacija/aviacija_i_kosmonavtika_2009_10/pic_17.jpg)

Following photo is dated August 1922, and lower wing underside is light blue; maybe they were delivered with light blue lower wing undersides?

(http://top.scalemodels.ru/images/2013/04/1366899854_M-Hobby_2006_1__67__Page_51.jpg)