Sovietwarplanes

Hi All,
here is my profile of Tupolev SB 2M-100A:
(http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1289518)

And this is photo of the original plane:
(http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1289308)

Regards,
   66misos

Hi Misos,
very good, as usual.
I see that the lower surface of the wing is rather curved. Maybe it's better to curve the star in the same way, if possible?
I think that there should be a wire between the fin and the stabilizer.
Regards
Massimo

Hi Massimo,
thank for comment.
I will try to somehow correct that star, it is not sepparate layer, so I will see.
The light grey wire between the fin and the stabilizer is on the profile. That dark thing visible on the photo is IMHO fixing element used on parked aircraft to prevent moving of the rudder and moving part of the horizontal stabilizer.
Regards,
   66misos

Hi,
here is Tupolev SB 2M-103:

(http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1290258)

(http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1290257)

Regards,
   66misos

EDIT: Incorrect profile deleted. New profile (red 7 with star) is bellow.

Beautiful profiles, Michal! I especially like the green over blue example.

Regards,

Jason

Hi Misos,
good drawing as always.
The plane looks a very late production one because of the fixed intakes and the mast on the windshield. It could be equipped with M-104 instead of M-103.
Regards
Massimo

Hi,
thank you for comments.

Massimo,
what exactly, please, do you mean by "M-104 instead of M-103"?

Regards,
   66misos

Hi Misos
I've a page on SB here: http://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/pages/sb/sb-evolution/sb-bis-evolution.htm (http://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/pages/sb/sb-evolution/sb-bis-evolution.htm)
Anyway, that look is compatible with M-103 engined SB  built in 1940, exteriorly undistinguishable from those with M-104.
Regards
Massimo

Hi Massimo,
I am afraid there are visible differences :'(
Here are same examples - at least 3 different M-103 engine cowlings, different gun turrets configuration etc.:
(http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1290407)

This one looks like the first one from the scheme above:
(http://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/pages/sb/sb-evolution/wingup.jpg)

These both look like the thisd from the top (areal mast on the canopy, no turret on the bottom):
(http://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/pages/sb/sb-evolution/grey8.jpg)
(http://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/pages/sb/sb-evolution/grey.jpg)

According to your http://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/pages/sb/sb-evolution/sb-bis-evolution.htm (http://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/pages/sb/sb-evolution/sb-bis-evolution.htm) my "white 2" is "SB 2M-105 abandoned in summer 1941":
(http://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/pages/sb/sb-evolution/m105b.jpg)
so I have to rework it, I need SB 2M-103, not 105. It is irony that I had it correct originally but I changed latter...

Regards,
  66misos

Hi Misos,
the raised canopy of the latest SB 2M-105, you mean.  Well, you can easily obtain an earlier version of the profile too.
Regards
Massimo

Hi Misos,
I am curious, are these SB and Ar-2 profiles for publishing or it's your personal interest? Either way you have to read Maslov's book. It is explained there that shape of engine cowling does NOT relate to particular engine type. Designations like "SB 2M-100A" or "SB 2M-103" are almost useless. The same can be said about everything that was written about SB variants before Maslov's book - what was previously identified as SB M-100A were likely planes with M-103 engines and frontal radiator etc, etc.

If you want to accurately describe SB variants you should use number of a Series, similar to LaGG-3 Series. The problem is that Maslov (or any other author...) haven't so far identified several distinctive modifications by the series number. So, good luck...  ;)

(http://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/pages/sb/sb-evolution/m105b.jpg)

This particular SB is one of least known modifications - "SB dive bomber" or SBP. Those were made by Zavod 22 before it started producing Ar-2.
Some of the SBP characteristics:
- it was equipped with bomb cradle like Ar-2
- it had fighter type gun sight
- pilot's seat was raised so that he could see target over the plane's nose
- cockpit canopy was domed to accommodate raised seat
- "LU" ventral gun similar to one developed for Il-4
- MV-3 dorsal turret
- lowered (retractable?) back behind MV-3

HTH,
KL

Hi KL,
thank you for comment. Those profiles are for publishing. In the meantime I have got basicaly the same impression - just "SB" and some other identification - series, date... And yes, the first engines M-103 were installed in the same cowling as previous M-100(A). Even experts like Maslov do not make it 100% clear, so there is some space for artistic licence ;)
Here is current WIP status:
(http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1290812)
Regards,
   66misos

This plane is a SB 2M-103, not "Tupolev SB 2M-100A". It's one of those that Maslov calls "96th Seres"...   :-X

Plane was made in 1939, photographed on VVs NII Airfield in 1940. Maslov writes it was light gray, but considering time when made, it was probably silver.

HTH,
KL

Hi KL,
interesting info ;) I found it somewhere described like 100A. I do not want agrue with Maslov, may be he is right. Note sharp shadows - plane was photographed during bright sunny day, but surface of the plane is homogenous grey, no bright shining od dark shadows on the wings/fuselage curvatures like here:
(http://www.polarpost.ru/forum/download/file.php?id=7756&mode=view)
or more at http://sovietwarplanes.com/board/index.php?topic=1799.msg14803#msg14803 (http://sovietwarplanes.com/board/index.php?topic=1799.msg14803#msg14803)
IMHO that SB looks more like light grey.

This should be finished profile of the late SB 2M-103A:
(http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1291161)

Regards,
   66misos

To answer your question, Konstantin, these profiles are for a book I am writing on Soviet WWII bombers. Any information you may have regarding the development of the SB, I would me more than happy to hear about, as not surprisingly there seems to be some discrepancies when it comes to designations (like the SB-3 - what was this - the SB 2-M103 or the SB-bis3? Was there even an SB-bis3?). My e-mail is Learstang@aol.com if you have any comments you'd like to send me. You and/or Mikhail Maslov will of course be given proper credit in the book. Thank you!

Best Regards,

Learstang

Hi,
here is the right side view on SB 2M-103A:

(http://modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1313580&mode=view)

Top and bottom views will follow.
Regards,
   66misos

Hi,
while looking for other info I found at http://coollib.com/b/269221/read (http://coollib.com/b/269221/read)

(http://coollib.com/i/21/269221/pic_117.jpg)
"Довольно необычно окрашенный СБ-2, зима 1941/42 г.г. Необычность камуфляжа заключается в его регулярности. Почти уверенно можно сказать, что пятна сделаны темно-зеленой и коричневой краской. Такой камуфляж появился осенью 1941 года на старых самолетах."
Translated:
The unusually painted SB-2, the winter of 1941/42. Camouflage is unusual is in its regularity. Almost confidently, it can be said that the stains are made of dark green and brown paint. Such camouflage appeared in the fall of 1941 on old aircraft.
Regards,
   66misos

Hi Misos,
the shadow of the wing on the lower part of fuselage should be curved in the opposite way. Please, check with a model.

the photo of plane 4 is interesting, it could be an example of the rare camo of the spring 1941.
I wonder if the lower surface is black; usually, planes on the snow have the lower surface only in slight shadow because of the light reflected by the snow, but this one seems black.
Regards
Massimo

Hi Massimo,
thank you for comment. However, I am not sure about those shadows. I would check it latter, if there is a time enough.
Here is work in progres on the top view:

EDIT: finished profile is in my post below.

Regards,
   66misos

Nice work on the top, Michal! Massimo, regarding the underside of that SB, by the winter of 41/42 I believe the Soviets were already using the SB at night, because of their terrible losses during day attacks, so black undersides is certainly a possibility. It looks black to me.

Regards,

Jason

Hi Jason, thank you for comment.

Here is finished top view:
(http://modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1314502)

Regards,
   66misos

Beautiful work as always, Michal!

Regards,

Jason

Hi Jason,
thank you for comment. :)

Here is finidhed bottom view on SB:
(http://modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1314906)

Regards,
   66misos

Hi Misos,
good drawing again.
Hi Jason, I like this SB with black undersurfaces and unusual camouflage that could be very nice as a profile.
Regards
Massimo

It would also be nice as a model.

Regards,

Jason