Sovietwarplanes

Great Patriotic War Aviation => Yaks => Topic started by: 66misos on April 20, 2017, 10:56:06 PM



Title: Yak-2 & Yak-4 profile
Post by: 66misos on April 20, 2017, 10:56:06 PM
Hi,
here I strated work on Yak-2 profile:

(http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1299271)

Regards,
   66misos


Title: Re: Yak-2 & Yak-4 profile
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on April 21, 2017, 09:17:28 PM
Hi Misos,
very nice plane. Only, rather boring for its painting, apart for some prototype.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: Yak-2 & Yak-4 profile
Post by: 66misos on April 22, 2017, 09:03:09 AM
Hi,
here is finished Yak-2:

(http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1299674)

Regards,
   66misos


Title: Re: Yak-2 & Yak-4 profile
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on April 22, 2017, 02:02:05 PM
Good work, Misos.
Please, check the shadow on the rear of the nacelle: if the outlet flap has a corner in light, it has to project shadow somewhere.
Besides I would darken a bit in front of the inlet, because it intercepts part of the diffused light from the rear.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: Yak-2 & Yak-4 profile
Post by: 66misos on April 22, 2017, 04:48:53 PM
Hi Massimo,
thank for comment. I added  a bit darker area/shadow in front of nacelle. Almost whole rear part of the gondola is in the shadow. So a little shadow from the open outlet flap is whithin a big shadow from the wing. At least in my interpretation.
Plus I added a little shadow beneath exhaust pipe. I replaced the corrected picture in my previous post.
Regards,
   66misos


Title: Re: Yak-2 & Yak-4 profile
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on April 22, 2017, 06:32:06 PM
Hi Misos,
imho, if a thing is lightened by the sun, it has to project its shadow somewhere. If the flap is within the shadow of the wing, it can't have direct sunlight.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: Yak-2 & Yak-4 profile
Post by: 66misos on April 22, 2017, 07:20:36 PM
Hi Massimo,
I have to admit that you are right. So outlet flap is closed now, picture is corrected and replaced. ;)
Thanx again.

This is Yak-2:
(http://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/pages/yak-2-4/foto01r.jpg)

And this is Yak-4:
(http://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/pages/yak-2-4/foto17r.jpg)
(http://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/pages/yak-2-4/foto25r.jpg)
(http://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/pages/yak-2-4/foto26r.jpg)
(http://scalemodels.ru/images/2015/04/1429643123_sss1247145CB7623D81DD.jpg)

(http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1299690)

Reragds,
   66misos




Title: Re: Yak-2 & Yak-4 profile
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on April 22, 2017, 11:03:06 PM
Hi Misos,
a strange characteristic of these planes: I can't understand how the hood of the pilot opens. I think that it has to be  removed by the ground crew.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: Yak-2 & Yak-4 profile
Post by: 66misos on April 23, 2017, 11:05:00 AM
Hi,

EDIT: Profile wit dark green areas deleted. New profile is below.

It should be this plane:
(http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1299780)

(http://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/pages/yak-2-4/foto33r.jpg)

Regards,
   66misos


Title: Re: Yak-2 & Yak-4 profile
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on April 23, 2017, 03:31:56 PM
Hi Misos,
good profile as usual.
The photos show some bomb racks under the wings.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: Yak-2 & Yak-4 profile
Post by: 66misos on April 24, 2017, 09:33:05 AM
Hi Massimo,
Thank you for comment. I do not have picture or drawing that shows exact shapes, dimensions and position of the bomb rack on Yak-4. And that rack was apparently removable. All line drawings I have found are without it. So let's say that my profile shows that plane before the rack was added.
Regards,
   66misos


Title: Re: Yak-2 & Yak-4 profile
Post by: KL on April 24, 2017, 05:46:59 PM
Hi Misos,
the profile is nice but IMHO, fundamentally wrong.  :-X

the profile you made, conveys an idea that there was a 3-colour, green-dark green-black, camouflage scheme. Such a scheme definitively did not exist!
Yak-2 your profile represents was painted strictly in accordance with the June 1941 scheme in 2-colour black-green scheme:

(http://f3.s.qip.ru/iJXXcvPh.jpg)

Plane probably belonged to 514 rap, photos were made in summer 1941

(http://f1.s.qip.ru/iJXXcvPd.jpg)

(http://f2.s.qip.ru/iJXXcvPe.jpg)

I don't know why black fuselage bands look lighter on some photos - photographic material, lighting conditions, fuselage  could be dusty and nose could be wet...

HTH,
KL


Title: Re: Yak-2 & Yak-4 profile
Post by: 66misos on April 24, 2017, 08:36:23 PM
Hi KL,
basicaly I agree with you - official scheme was black & green.
Here are another photos of the same plane I have found on web:

(http://i1063.photobucket.com/albums/t518/66misos/Yak-4/04_zpsetoaxt6b.jpg)

(http://i1063.photobucket.com/albums/t518/66misos/Yak-4/03_zps7iylokcq.jpg)

(http://i1063.photobucket.com/albums/t518/66misos/Yak-4/02_zpskswh6jzr.jpg)

I havea to admit that camo on the plane (front & middle sides of the fuselage, wings, engine gondoles and vertical stabilizers) quite well fit to official camouflage template. However, the black is missing around the horizontal stabilizer root. Fabric on the rear left side of the fuselage is missing, we can only guess whether black was also there or not.

My original interpretation was that originally dark green (AIIz?) plane was for some repainted in the filed conditions to the new scheme, but black either poorly covered or it was mixed with new AMT-4 green to get enough paint or something like that. Those photos are usually dated to summer/july 1941 - time when Soviets at the fronts had completly diffrent problems from looking for perfect black.
Where is that color scheme from, please? The fuselage star is missing there - same like on that Yak-4. AFAIK there should be two red stars - on the rear fuselage side and on the tail.
However, if we suppose that plane was camouflaged already in the factory/PARB and different dark shades are only matter of light conditions and/or optical illusion then, of course, there should be only two colors - green (AMT-4) and black.

EDIT:
Here is reworked version to fit official NKAP template:
(http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1300678)

Regards,
   66misos



Title: Re: Yak-2 & Yak-4 profile
Post by: KL on April 25, 2017, 12:19:33 AM
Hi Misos,
that was a quick correction!!!  :)

Drawing is from original 18th Army documents, thanks to Misha Timin.

Photos were definitively made in summer 1941, plane belonged to 314 rap, it was camouflaged in field (not in factory).

Camouflage orders were issued on June 20, AFAIK location of stars was regulated few days/weeks later...

HTH,
KL


Title: Re: Yak-2 & Yak-4 profile
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on April 25, 2017, 06:49:27 AM
Hi Misos,
I think that the painting of the blades has to be revised, As it is now, it seems metal partially oversprayed with black. The photos show it somewhat different, at least on the rear that had its outer 3/4 painted black in factory. the upper blade of the profile should show its back.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: Yak-2 & Yak-4 profile
Post by: 66misos on April 26, 2017, 05:39:35 AM
Hi Massimo,
thank you for comment. Blades are slightly reworked and picture replaced again. IMHO they were originally NMF with black 3/4 of back side a latter repainted completly black. It is apparent on the close-up photo of the nose from the left.
Regards,
  66misos


Title: Re: Yak-2 & Yak-4 profile
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on April 26, 2017, 09:59:36 PM
Hi Misos,
I agree. I think that they have utilized a bad-adhering black paint for the second layer.
regards
Massimo


Title: Re: Yak-2 & Yak-4 profile
Post by: Llemon on August 03, 2019, 11:28:05 AM
Hi KL,
basicaly I agree with you - official scheme was black & green.
Here are another photos of the same plane I have found on web:

(http://i1063.photobucket.com/albums/t518/66misos/Yak-4/04_zpsetoaxt6b.jpg)

(http://i1063.photobucket.com/albums/t518/66misos/Yak-4/03_zps7iylokcq.jpg)

(http://i1063.photobucket.com/albums/t518/66misos/Yak-4/02_zpskswh6jzr.jpg)

I havea to admit that camo on the plane (front & middle sides of the fuselage, wings, engine gondoles and vertical stabilizers) quite well fit to official camouflage template. However, the black is missing around the horizontal stabilizer root. Fabric on the rear left side of the fuselage is missing, we can only guess whether black was also there or not.

My original interpretation was that originally dark green (AIIz?) plane was for some repainted in the filed conditions to the new scheme, but black either poorly covered or it was mixed with new AMT-4 green to get enough paint or something like that. Those photos are usually dated to summer/july 1941 - time when Soviets at the fronts had completly diffrent problems from looking for perfect black.
Where is that color scheme from, please? The fuselage star is missing there - same like on that Yak-4. AFAIK there should be two red stars - on the rear fuselage side and on the tail.
However, if we suppose that plane was camouflaged already in the factory/PARB and different dark shades are only matter of light conditions and/or optical illusion then, of course, there should be only two colors - green (AMT-4) and black.

EDIT:
Here is reworked version to fit official NKAP template:
(http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1300678)

Regards,
   66misos



Another photo of this machine. It looks almost like a 3 color scheme here.
(https://i.imgur.com/qe7iqEp.jpg)


Title: Re: Yak-2 & Yak-4 profile
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on August 09, 2019, 05:48:25 PM
Hi Llemon, hi Misos,
this seems the original scan of a photo that I saw many years ago on some book. At the time, I had the same impression of a 3 shade camo.
 Considering the timeline and pattern, it is very likely that it was black and green only, but perhaps they utilized less black paint on the rear cockpit area to allow it to dry more quickly for the access of the crew.
So it could be that it seems as a blackish green instead of full black as it was on other parts of the plane.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: Yak-2 & Yak-4 profile
Post by: 66misos on August 14, 2019, 03:05:01 PM
Hi,
could be true. But also the fuselage just behind the engines/propellers could be covered by a dust/smoke after the forced landing on the dry stepp. ???
It looks like standard black-green camo to my eyes.
Regards,
   66misos