Sovietwarplanes

Great Patriotic War Aviation => Yaks => Topic started by: jamoliva on September 25, 2017, 08:24:52 PM



Title: Ivan Vasilyevich Fedorov's Yak-9T "За Георгия!" Yellow 31
Post by: jamoliva on September 25, 2017, 08:24:52 PM
Hello all!

I am trying to find out the color scheme under the temporary winter camouflage for Lieutenant Federov's Yak-9T during winter 43-44 in 812-IAP. Was it the early or late pattern? Because of the date, both seems to be appropriate, since the aircraft could be an early version or a late version.

According to the drawings from the Aviamaster magazine from 1996, it seems that the aircraft had early pattern, green/black.
http://soviet-aces-1936-53.ru/books/books1/fydorov3_b.jpg

However, according to another profile by Rusetski, it seems to have the late pattern, grey/grey.
http://www.airaces.narod.ru/all2/fedor_i5.jpg

Please let me know which one, you think, is likely to be more accurate.

Best,

CZ


Title: Re: Ivan Vasilyevich Fedorov's Yak-9T "За Георгия!" Yellow 31
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on September 26, 2017, 08:19:41 AM
Hi CZ,
welcome here!
I am trying to find photos, but without success till now.
I am doubtful about all that use of yellow. Couldn't it be light blue?
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: Ivan Vasilyevich Fedorov's Yak-9T "За Георгия!" Yellow 31
Post by: jamoliva on September 27, 2017, 05:20:34 PM
Thank you Massimo! I am not sure of the colors at all. Except for the Aviamaster magazine there are no direct sources about the colors. However, we know that he flew with a Yak-9T that is assumed to have a winter camo late 43 early 44 (This is also an issue because it seems white wahs was not common at that winter apparently).
Best,
CZ


Title: Re: Ivan Vasilyevich Fedorov's Yak-9T "За Георгия!" Yellow 31
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on September 29, 2017, 02:08:41 PM
Hi CZ,
I've asked Aleksandr Ruchkovsky. For what he knows, nor photos nor serial of this plane s known. He received this plane in spring 1944, unclear if new or a survivor of the old production. Anyway the grey/grey painting is the most likely. Personally I doubt about the use of yellow, I guess that it's more likely that the bort number was white but darkened by smokes. and the spinner and tail were light blue. Anyway this is only a guess.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: Ivan Vasilyevich Fedorov's Yak-9T "За Георгия!" Yellow 31
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on September 29, 2017, 02:14:32 PM
Hi,
http://wio.ru/simbols/sov.htm (http://wio.ru/simbols/sov.htm)
Here s written that planes of 265 IAD (265th fighter Melitopol Red Banner Order of Suvorov Air Division), division including the 812 IAP, had a white spinner in 1943.

Here is a photo of the tail of another plane of the unit, showing a cap with a color that is intermediate between white and red. Light or medium blue looks possible.
http://airaces.narod.ru/all3/popov_if3.htm (http://airaces.narod.ru/all3/popov_if3.htm)

I had a look to this site.
http://airfield.narod.ru/yak/yak-9/yak-9_color.html (http://airfield.narod.ru/yak/yak-9/yak-9_color.html)
It looks very complete, but no profile or photo of this white plane. The first profile was drawn in the '90s, so, if there were photos, it is lkely that they were already seen on the web. My idea is that it is, at best, based on some verbal description of veterans or, at the worst, simply invented.

Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: Ivan Vasilyevich Fedorov's Yak-9T "За Георгия!" Yellow 31
Post by: 66misos on September 29, 2017, 02:42:00 PM
Hi,
AFAIK winter camouflage was abandoned in NKAP 1943 and for the latter period.
Why should they paint it white when it was not neccessary, white camouflage paint (in a such amounts) already was not delivered, they surely had a lot of different problems and duties, so why would they lose the time and material?
Are there known other white planes from that unit & period?
Regards,
    66misos


Title: Re: Ivan Vasilyevich Fedorov's Yak-9T "За Георгия!" Yellow 31
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on September 29, 2017, 08:34:19 PM
Hi Misos, there are photos of a pair of Il-2 camouflaged on that winter over the post-1943 livery, but they are the exception. I don't remember other white painted fighters in that time.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: Ivan Vasilyevich Fedorov's Yak-9T "За Георгия!" Yellow 31
Post by: learstang on October 01, 2017, 12:34:40 AM
I agree about all that yellow being suspect. A yellow spinner in that part of the war was asking to be shot down by your own side.

Regards,

Jason


Title: Re: Ivan Vasilyevich Fedorov's Yak-9T "За Георгия!" Yellow 31
Post by: jamoliva on October 02, 2017, 05:13:10 AM
Thank you very much all! I agree with Massimo's assessment. I think the origin of the profile is this book which is written by Federov himself:

https://newauction.com.ua/offer/i_fedorov_v_nebe_ostavili_sled-i6529009767.html

And from this book I could have only found this in relation to this aircraft:

Иван Федоров В небе оставили след (разговор с Е. Савицким).
- Федоров, ваш самолет не наилучший. Тяжелый в управлении и двигатель что-то слабый. - Любой самолет с тяжелым управлением - отвечаю - как мне кажется более чуткий. А двигатель? Сейчас только второй ресурс вырабатывает. На этом Як-9 с номером 31 сбил пятнадцать самолетов, причем в основном истребителей

So this only means, I guess, the aircraft existed. But of course we don't know anything about the colors.  :)

If you also look at the magazine here (scroll down for Federov), the profile seems to appear here first:
http://soviet-aces-1936-53.ru/books/books1/

Can anybody read the text?

Best!

CZ