Sovietwarplanes

Great Patriotic War Aviation => Prewar types during the GPW => Topic started by: 66misos on October 06, 2017, 08:29:34 PM



Title: Polikarpov I-5 profile
Post by: 66misos on October 06, 2017, 08:29:34 PM
Hi,
here I started work on the profile of the Polikarpov I-5 frpm the period of WWII:

(http://modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1340827)

This is photo of the original - reportedly the only known photo showing the whole I-5 from the WWII period, year 1941:
(http://modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1340828)

Regards,
   66misos


Title: Re: Polikarpov I-5
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on October 06, 2017, 08:55:14 PM
Hi Misos,
I have many other photos of wartime I-5s, not all in one piece. Could be useful?
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: Polikarpov I-5
Post by: 66misos on October 06, 2017, 09:20:00 PM
Hi Massimo,

I would be gratefull. Any photo of I-5 with (preferably) wired wheels and showing war-time red stars and marking would help a lot.
Thank you in advance.

Regards,
   66misos



Title: Re: Polikarpov I-5
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on October 07, 2017, 09:00:47 PM
Hi Misos,
here are the photos that I found.

A camouflaged one:
(http://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/pages/i-5/1.jpg)
(http://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/pages/i-5/2.jpg)

The most part of the following photos were taken in Kacha, krimea. We see both green planes, both light ones, probably silver-grey. Some of the green plaes have a white band around the fuselage.
(http://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/pages/i-5/3.jpg)
(http://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/pages/i-5/4.jpg)
(http://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/pages/i-5/5.jpg)
(http://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/pages/i-5/6.jpg)
(http://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/pages/i-5/7.jpg)
(http://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/pages/i-5/8.jpg)
(http://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/pages/i-5/9.jpg)
(http://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/pages/i-5/10.jpg)
(http://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/pages/i-5/11.jpg)
(http://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/pages/i-5/12.jpg)
(http://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/pages/i-5/13.jpg)
Only the last photo shows clearly a number on the tail.
(http://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/pages/i-5/14.jpg)

Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: Polikarpov I-5
Post by: 66misos on October 08, 2017, 09:14:38 AM
Hi Massimo,
thank you for the photos. The first two show seems 2-color camo. Unfortunately due to german soldier the number on the tial is not visible.

In the meantime I have ffound a better photo of the "White 6":
(http://www.restmodels.com/pages/models/RM4805/white.jpg)

and this, the plane of famous pre-war woman-pilot Marina Nesterova.:
(http://www.restmodels.com/pages/models/RM4805/1fotoI-5.jpg)

Propellers seems to be metal, not wooden like here:
(http://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/pages/i-5/7.jpg)

Regards,
   66misos


Title: Re: Polikarpov I-5
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on October 08, 2017, 12:44:17 PM
Hi Misos,
interesting images.
The close detail of the camouflage is interesting too.
There are reports of an all-black I-5 flying by night in Crimea to provocate reaction by German AA fore advantaging night intruders as UT-1b.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: Polikarpov I-5
Post by: 66misos on October 08, 2017, 05:16:26 PM
Hi,
here is finished profile of I-5 from the WWII era:

(http://modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1341518)

Regards,
   66misos


Title: Re: Polikarpov I-5
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on October 08, 2017, 08:23:31 PM
Hi Misos,
I am not sure, but my impression is that the fuselage should be blue in its rear part, and that the blue should be much darker, being the shade in use in mid '30s.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: Polikarpov I-5 profile
Post by: 66misos on October 08, 2017, 10:14:36 PM
Hi Massimo,
thank you for comment.
What part of the rear fuselage should be blue, please? Or do you mean under surfaces? I saw pics and profiles with both blue or dark green color. This particular "white 6" was interpreted usually with dark green bottom fuselage. So I made it in the same way.
Regards,
   66misos


Title: Re: Polikarpov I-5 profile
Post by: TISO on April 08, 2018, 03:12:04 PM
Enough with captured wrecks.  :P
Pilots of 11. ShAP of Black sea fleet on near feont airfiled Baidari near Sevastapol comment on combat flight next to shtrumovik I-5bis winter 1941-42:
(http://files.balancer.ru/cache/forums/attaches/2017/12/640x480/20-5731401-letchiki-11-go-shturmovogo-polka-vvs-chernomorskogo-flota-na-letnom-pole-prifrontovogo-aerodroma-bajdary-pod-sevastopolem-obsuzhdayut-boevoj-vylet-u-shturmovika-i-5bis.-zima-1941-1942-gg..jpg)

Found on this forum while searching for photos of GST (good photos):
http://forums.airbase.ru/2017/11/t32321_46--tolko-otechestvennaya-morskaya-aviatsiya.html


Title: Re: Polikarpov I-5 profile
Post by: learstang on April 28, 2018, 06:43:31 PM
Nice photograph of the I-5 - thank you, TISO!

Regards,

Jason


Title: Re: Polikarpov I-5
Post by: TISO on May 15, 2018, 11:50:53 PM
Hi Misos,
interesting images.
The close detail of the camouflage is interesting too.
There are reports of an all-black I-5 flying by night in Crimea to provocate reaction by German AA fore advantaging night intruders as UT-1b.
Regards
Massimo
I would have to check but i belive it was in one of old HiPM magazine articles about UT-1b. All that was said about it, was one I-5 was painted black to act as bait for FLAK searhlights and guns which would then be attacked by UT-1b attackers. I belive it was in 46.AP VVS ChF while they were fighting over Caucasus and Kuban


Title: Re: Polikarpov I-5 profile
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on May 16, 2018, 02:12:37 PM
Hi,
it could be a cool model, if one wants to assume the risk to make it without any photo documentation.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: Polikarpov I-5 profile
Post by: BLG on May 28, 2019, 11:42:13 PM
Hi Massimo,
Quote from: Massimo Tessitori
it could be a cool model, if one wants to assume the risk to make it without any photo documentation.
,
I have begun the family of Polikarpov biplanes, and I will be this one to assume the risk.  Have you suggestions for all black, or only undersurface. How the stars if all black.
I will make also a camouflaged I-5 like the one you posted .  Which colors? AMT4/6?

(http://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/pages/i-5/1.jpg)


Best regards
Bernard


Title: Re: Polikarpov I-5 profile
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on May 29, 2019, 06:13:24 AM
Hi Bernard,
I am not 100% sure that this is the same plane, but looks that has a Frankenstein camouflage with at least 3 shades.

(http://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/pages/i-5/2.jpg)

I can guess black, green and light brown.
Probably the base is a black green camo, with green dots on the black border and black ones on the green border (and inside in some areas), as the German ambush camo. Some light brown lines and dots added on, apparently without major bands, perhaps I see a minor band vertical on the left side under the cockpit. It will require a big work of fantasy.

An overall black I-5 will be interesting. I wonder if it had any markings.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: Polikarpov I-5 profile
Post by: BLG on May 29, 2019, 10:56:33 AM
Thanks Massimo,
My painting skill can manage the all black. For 3 colors and dots on a 1/72 model, I have some progress to do.
May be I will keep the white 6 which is well known .

On these 2 pictures,I wonder if there are 2 rails for RS 82 under each wing?

(http://scalemodels.ru/images/2018/10/1539621020_0_ca659_6db27732_orig.jpg)
(http://top.scalemodels.ru/images/2015/04/1429034413_12---rrrrjos.jpg)
Best regards
Bernard


Title: Re: Polikarpov I-5 profile
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on May 30, 2019, 09:35:41 AM
Hi Bernard,
yes, I think that they are rocket rails.
About the reversed plane, I think to see a number 6 on the lower wing, inside of the rails. Strangely, I can't see the star under the opposite lower wing, but it could be because of different reflection. The tip of the same wing has a strange dark contour different from the opposite wing, it could be a recognition mark or it could mark a repair.
The rear fuselage is strange, I can't recognize the dark shade on it as expected. I wonder if other photos of the same plane are available.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: Polikarpov I-5 profile
Post by: BLG on May 30, 2019, 11:13:39 AM
Hi Massimo,
I did not noticed all this details, as I focused only on the rails.
You are right, and it's the first time I see such a number or letter on  a VVS intrados. May be related to a training aircraft?
The star is probably there on the broken wing. And  looking Ó the tail this I-5 could be camouflaged 2 tones.
I flipped the picture to read the text. Apparently: the name of the place; 1941 Poli.....karpov.

All the texts I found about the black one , probably coming from the same source,  speak of ONE aircraft. It's difficulte to make a model of a specific aicraft without data. So, I will  make  a green one  with bombs  and a camouflaged 2 tones with rs 82 which will be generic representatives of the I-5 used as night bombers and sturmoviks during the Moscow battle and the Crimea battle.

(https://i88.servimg.com/u/f88/19/84/12/04/rs_8210.jpg) (https://servimg.com/view/19841204/1438)

Regards
Bernard


Title: Re: Polikarpov I-5 profile
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on May 30, 2019, 09:51:01 PM
Hi Bernard,
this will be interesting to see.
I am not sure that the reverse plane is camouflaged; I can't see variation of colors on the landing gear, engine and wings leading edges. In my idea, the dark thing close to the tail  could be the effect of reflections or other accidents.
I've seen some inscriptions on the wings and even on the elevators in photos of planes of the '30s.
Personally, I love the idea of the strange ambush camo.
I have to check if I have one of these kits in my stash.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: Polikarpov I-5 profile
Post by: BLG on May 31, 2019, 12:56:19 AM
Hi Massimo,
I let you struggle with 3 colors and dots. ;)
 If you dont have the ICM I-5 in stock, it's easy to find and not expensive at all.
I will mix several of the previous  pictures to make 2 planes , different not only with camo and weapons, but also propeller and wheel. One  blue/green with wooden propeller  plain wheels and bombs, and one AMT 4/6/7, metal propeller, wired wheels and RS 82.

Regards
Bernard





Title: Re: Polikarpov I-5 profile
Post by: BLG on June 01, 2019, 10:53:46 AM
Hi Massimo,
I have found another photo of the ambush camo that you posted in "searching  for VVS photos".

(https://i88.servimg.com/u/f88/19/84/12/04/i51410.jpg) (https://servimg.com/view/19841204/1528)

Regards


Title: Re: Polikarpov I-5 profile
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on June 01, 2019, 02:27:03 PM
Hi Bernard,
here is a detail of a phot sent by Tora on the reversed plane.
(http://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/pages/i-5/rev.jpg)
In the light area in front of the shadow f the wing on the fuselage one can see two dark strokes with a contour of light dots, I'm still wondering if it was a camo, a repair  or what else.
On the rear of the fuselage one can see a wide dark (red?) trasversal band with a thin light one.
An interesting mystery plane.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: Polikarpov I-5 profile
Post by: BLG on June 01, 2019, 07:31:58 PM
Hi Massimo,
Thanks for this photo. Good complement to the previous one.
 These three  I-5 seem to have been camouflaged in the field with brushstokes over the original greeen  or black/green on the rear part of the fuselage

Quote from: 66misos
The first two show seems 2-color camo. Unfortunately due to german soldier the number on the tail is not visible.
With these 2 pictures,  66misos could make a profile that I would use.

(http://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/pages/i-5/2.jpg)
(https://i88.servimg.com/u/f88/19/84/12/04/i51410.jpg) (https://servimg.com/view/19841204/1528)

This one seem a different plane.No hay on the ground and the OP1 still in place.
(http://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/pages/i-5/1.jpg)

Regards
Bernard




Title: Re: Polikarpov I-5 profile
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on June 02, 2019, 07:17:14 AM
Hi Bernard,
about the reverse plane, I wonder if the strange lines of dots could be part of the vegetation on the ground. They seem painted, considering the shadows, and are not a defect of the photo because they appear on 3 versions of it. I would wait for further evidence before making use of these photos.
Plane n.5 is lovable, and certainly camouflaged. I've still to check my stash.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: Polikarpov I-5 profile
Post by: BLG on June 24, 2019, 10:20:59 PM
Hi Massimo,
Here are two  of the four I- 5  I present in this post:  I-5 Master194 (http://www.master194.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=106130&p=1382070#p1381852)
I have used the pictures as guide and not tried  to make exact reproduction

(https://i88.servimg.com/u/f88/19/84/12/04/i52310.jpg)
(https://i88.servimg.com/u/f88/19/84/12/04/i52510.jpg)
(https://i88.servimg.com/u/f88/19/84/12/04/i52910.jpg)
(https://i88.servimg.com/u/f88/19/84/12/04/i53110.jpg)


Best regards


Title: Re: Polikarpov I-5 profile
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on June 25, 2019, 06:01:38 AM
Hi Bernard,
nice models indeed. I'm happy to see them, particularly the camouflaged one.
About its wheels: did they require a photoetched set?
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: Polikarpov I-5 profile
Post by: BLG on June 25, 2019, 11:17:39 AM
Hi Massimo
About its wheels: did they require a photoetched set?
Yes, I used the Eduard set for WWI aircraft.
Regards
Bernard


Title: Re: Polikarpov I-5 profile
Post by: BLG on July 08, 2019, 04:26:24 PM
Quote from: Massimo Tessitori
it could be a cool model, if one wants to assume the risk to make it without any photo documentation.
Hi Massilmo
Finally, I have taken the risk. I have found several russian papers that confirm the story, however without details about the camouflage. I have supposed that the fuselage star and the bort number were kept on the previous AIIz background, mainly to avoid to have an allblack model ;)
Here are the I-5 and it's partner  the UT-1b.
(https://i.servimg.com/u/f88/19/84/12/04/i53910.jpg)

(https://i.servimg.com/u/f88/19/84/12/04/i54811.jpg)
more pictures here
http://fighters.forumactif.com/t90835-les-chasseurs-biplans-polikarpov-du-i-3-au-i-190-1-72#1814220 (http://fighters.forumactif.com/t90835-les-chasseurs-biplans-polikarpov-du-i-3-au-i-190-1-72#1814220)

Regards
Bernard



Title: Re: Polikarpov I-5 profile
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on July 08, 2019, 06:31:18 PM
Hi Bernard,
nice models indeed. I like them. The thematic collection is huge. What are your next projects?
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: Polikarpov I-5 profile
Post by: BLG on July 08, 2019, 07:13:29 PM
Hi Massimo,
I'm currently building the Polikarpov biplane fighters, from I-3 to I-190. After the I-3 and I-5 already done,  the next is the I-15. Beside the prototype, I plan to do a I-15 from the first batch arrived in November 36 in Spain ( which could have been flown  by G. Zakharov)  and  one built in Spain,  the 58 piloted by JosÚ Falco. Any suggestion for colors and markings?
Regards
Bernard


Title: Re: Polikarpov I-5 profile
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on July 09, 2019, 07:03:34 AM
Hi Bernard,
I have not particular suggestions for the painting of these models. For the first one, you have some I-16s already built, you can use the same paints for a consistent result.
Have you any photo of these planes?
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: Polikarpov I-5 profile
Post by: BLG on July 09, 2019, 12:07:45 PM
Hi Massimo,
There are numerous pictures of I-15 in Spain, but I have not found one labelled for sure "1936". Compared to the I-16 known as belonging to the  first batch, I suppose that they were not marked CCxx on the fuselage and had only a bort number lower than 31 on the rudder. For the paint, as you suggest I will use the pre-37 green and light blue I used on the I-16 type 5, different from AII Z and G.
For the Falco plane , it was described by his pilot  and there are numerous profiles. No problem for the markings. The question is the underside of Spain made I-15. AII g, light grey, aluminium.  Xan suggest aluminium.

Regards
Bernard


Title: Re: Polikarpov I-5 profile
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on July 09, 2019, 03:01:54 PM
Hi Bernard,
I would guess that a typical Spanish color for undersufaces would be light blue, but I don't really know. What are the sources of Xan?
On photos, light blue and aluminum should be distinguishable.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: Polikarpov I-5 profile
Post by: BLG on July 09, 2019, 03:53:25 PM
I don't know the sources of Xan. Here on SWP he discussed in several posts of 1938 planes painted AII aluminium and /or Ae9.  He think probably that spanish planes followed the same rules as VVS and changed from blue to aluminium in 1938. Falco's plane is from 1938.

Regards
Bernard



Title: Re: Polikarpov I-5 profile
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on July 09, 2019, 08:26:26 PM
Hi,
personaly I don't think that Spanish had painted any plane undersurface in a color different from blue, unless they had received them already painted. This is only my personal guess.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: Polikarpov I-5 profile
Post by: BLG on July 10, 2019, 04:00:06 PM
Hi Massimo,
I have not find photos to support aluminium. So I will stay on blue as the profiles and models published.
Regards
Bernard


Title: Re: Polikarpov I-5 profile
Post by: BLG on July 10, 2019, 10:35:57 PM
Hi Massimo,
here is a post on SWP where Xan  said that the I-15 had silver undersides:
KL and you discussed the green shade, but not the silver
http://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/board/index.php?PHPSESSID=l2jra7589ed795qfooadvijra6&topic=1792.msg14621#msg14621

regards
Bernard


Title: Re: Polikarpov I-5 profile
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on July 11, 2019, 06:33:33 AM
Hi Bernard,
I see, the interview looks convincing on this point. That discussion was interesting, I don't know better references on this topic.
Regards
Massimo