Sovietwarplanes

Great Patriotic War Aviation => Lavochkins => Topic started by: Johann on December 13, 2017, 11:33:26 AM



Title: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Johann on December 13, 2017, 11:33:26 AM
Greetings to all. I make drawings for the plane La-5 / 5f / 5fn, taking into account the issues of different types and plants Based on factory drawings and authentic books describing the elements of the design. Will it be interesting? Will the process itself be interesting? The plans for the same work on LaGG-3 are different types and plants.

(https://s26.postimg.org/qz4gjxp3p/image.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/qz4gjxp3p/)(https://s26.postimg.org/e6gck0dhx/image.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/e6gck0dhx/)

(https://s26.postimg.org/tqiodfhax/image.jpg)


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on December 13, 2017, 01:54:51 PM
Hi Johann,
yes, the work on drawings is interesting. I think that many drawings now available are unaccurate; besides available drawings of LaGG-3, La-5, La-7 often show differences between the types that probably weren't real.
Please keep us updated on this work.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Johann on December 13, 2017, 03:05:30 PM
Massimo, thank you for your interest. At the moment, the lateral projection is almost ready La-5F of late release is almost ready. How to finish I will show the work in a normal quality. While only a sketch, that would not be lost interest)

(https://s26.postimg.org/ulevabkux/-5_1.jpg)


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on December 13, 2017, 03:38:40 PM
Hi Johann,
from a first comparison with photos, I think that the engine cowling is a bit thin and it should be made thicker downwards. Profile photos show that the lower shape of the nose starts to be inclined downwards starting from mid of the main wheels bay.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Johann on December 13, 2017, 04:26:40 PM
This is not quite true. Visibility of the sagging of the hood is visual distortion due to the open chassis niches and the volume of the oil cooler. If we draw a line from the bottom line of the center wing to the hood line, then we will see that they are aligned on the same line.

(https://s26.postimg.org/4fnm7s4et/555.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/4fnm7s4et/)


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Johann on December 13, 2017, 07:06:58 PM
Now it takes a little time, as they say - to catch fleas. Search and correction of small inaccuracies.

(https://s26.postimg.org/a6idz91sp/La-511.jpg)
(https://s26.postimg.org/dc2zpgkex/La-512.jpg)


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on December 13, 2017, 09:27:06 PM
Hi,
is there any measure of the diameter of the cowling? It should be a bit larger than the cowling of La-7. Pity that none La-5 has survived.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: 66misos on December 13, 2017, 09:40:36 PM
Hi Johan,
excellent work. I hope you do not mind if I use them sometime in the future when I would like to make profile of some Lavochkins.
Regards,
   66misos


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Johann on December 13, 2017, 10:27:42 PM
Hi,
is there any measure of the diameter of the cowling? It should be a bit larger than the cowling of La-7. Pity that none La-5 has survived.
Regards
Massimo


The diameter of the M-82A / F / FN itself is 1260 mm
Full hood diameter 1300 mm

Check it is as follows ... 12th spank from the bottom to the axis of the stabilizer 650mm

(https://s26.postimg.org/o455iap91/51-1.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/o455iap91/)

superimpose a double size of 1300mm on the circuit

(https://s26.postimg.org/khuqrwthx/51-2.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/khuqrwthx/)

the same thing in the photo (even with the condition of distortion of the photograph we get all the same 1300mm)

(https://s26.postimg.org/4xnd1djdh/51-3.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/4xnd1djdh/)


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Johann on December 13, 2017, 10:30:39 PM
Hi Johan,
excellent work. I hope you do not mind if I use them sometime in the future when I would like to make profile of some Lavochkins.
Regards,
   66misos

I do not see this as a problem, if there is to attend my little brand)))
How I will end that I will share in good quality by drawings.


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on December 14, 2017, 08:01:05 AM
Hi,
interesting considerations. Do you know the diameter of the cowling of La-7 too?

Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Johann on December 14, 2017, 08:52:37 AM
Hi,
interesting considerations. Do you know the diameter of the cowling of La-7 too?

Regards
Massimo

In principle, they should be the same. But more accurately I can say more late in the evening.
(https://s26.postimg.org/5i6zht1zt/51-7.jpg)


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Johann on December 14, 2017, 08:55:06 AM
I made the outline of the plan from above.

(https://s26.postimg.org/8b071u2c9/51-4.jpg)

Completed a couple of small things in the plans from the side

(https://s26.postimg.org/45pafx4k9/51-5.jpg)
(https://s26.postimg.org/5jgxb83tl/51-6.jpg)


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on December 14, 2017, 02:52:15 PM
Hi,
For what I know, La-7 had cooling problems that La-5 hadn't. I suppose that they could be related to a small change in diameter that reduced the spaces between the heads and the cowling.
Another thing: please, check the radius at the base of the fin. Photos give a sharper impression, with the radius beginning not forward of the stabilizers.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Johann on December 14, 2017, 07:17:49 PM
Here is a complete list of changes in the design of La-7 in comparison with La-5FN. In short - what about the hood.

(https://s26.postimg.org/uab72s8k5/55-1.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/uab72s8k5/)

(https://s26.postimg.org/9eowrjcd1/55-2.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/9eowrjcd1/)

1) Chilled cooling louver
2) Changed exhaust pipes
3) Changed bonnet and bonnet system
The length and diameter did not affect anything and it remained the same.

Problems with the cooling of the engine were only in the early issues before the installation of new baffle block diffusers and hermitization of the hood. After the situation was corrected and even improved in comparison with the La-5FN



Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on December 14, 2017, 09:03:39 PM
Interesting indeed. My visual impression is thhat the cowling of La-7 is perfectly cylindrical, while the one of La-5 has a stranged and a bit more curved shape.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Johann on December 14, 2017, 09:31:49 PM
At absolutely identical form visual distortion gives La-5 because of a radiator and a hump of the compressor. On La-7 visual perception opposite amplifies, including because of new shutters which are more lifted up and give smoother contour of the fuselage.


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Johann on December 15, 2017, 07:54:34 AM
Worked on the top projection. She already gets her look.

(https://s26.postimg.org/6m9hcqg61/51-8.jpg)


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on December 15, 2017, 11:14:33 AM
Hi,
interesting. But, is it sure that the angulation of the leading edge changed inside the landing gear? I've never noticed this.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Johann on December 15, 2017, 03:59:22 PM
Massimo - that's it. Here are the factory calculations. I can demonstrate the description of the wing in the Air Force Research Institute. There is described this feature of the wing because of which, by the way, the wing profile of NASA-230 which was corrected only on La-7 is not quite true ...

(https://s26.postimg.org/jxbkuurtl/553.jpg)


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on December 15, 2017, 06:54:59 PM
Should it be so on the LaGG-3 too?  I can see it on I-301 prototype, but not on production planes. Have you found photos where this characteristic is noticeable?
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Johann on December 15, 2017, 07:08:00 PM
Hmm ... I think I should revise this point again more carefully. For example, in this photograph, the wedge in the area of the strap is not broken. And the wing of LaGG-3 and La-5 are identical except for the root of the wing ... Massimo thank you for making us doubt.

(http://www.airwar.ru/image/idop/fww2/k37/k37-1.jpg)


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Johann on December 15, 2017, 09:08:14 PM
Massimo, you sow a grain of doubt in me. He began to suspect bad mating drawings. Checked in another book (Diagrams and drawings LaGG-3 41 years.) And there is the same picture. The angle of the leading edge along the center wing is 3.5 degrees, and the angle of the wing itself is 6 degrees. Accordingly, there should be a drop in the curves in the area of the wing clamping band ...

(https://s26.postimg.org/fashpsndl/555.jpg)

(https://s26.postimg.org/i65kwnrdl/554.jpg)

but the most interesting thing is that it is not visible in the photo (It seems that this may lead to a similar question: what was the hood - a straight or bulbous one ...


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on December 16, 2017, 07:08:23 AM
Hi,
factory drawings could be not in perfect scale. For example the section drawing of MiG-3 published many years ago (sorry I don't remember the author) was with the same length of the prototype I-200 n.04, but production MiG-3s were longer.
If there are explicitely written measures, it is another thing. Designers can modify them without modifying the drawing that is a lot of work, and they matter more than the drawing.
Are the inner part and outer part of the wing drawn together or separately?
If the angulation is visible as it is in a factory drawing, this is reliable, because the designer made it willingly; else, if it can be seen only after put together two different drawings, then it is suspect, because it can be due to an error.
The coincidence of drawings of LaGG-3 and La-5 is not a proof, because the drawings of La-5 were certainly obtained from those of LaGG-3 by overposition.
Is it possible to find measures of the first and second inner structures of the wing root?
You say that this characteristic of the wing was described in NII VVS report. How was this written? Keep into account that the first and second prototype of LaGG-1 had different wings.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Johann on December 17, 2017, 12:12:43 PM
Nevertheless, there is a break in the wing. Not always visually on general plans it can be caught, it's only 2.5 degrees. But the blogger of his colleague, we found a few photos where it is particularly noticeable

(https://s26.postimg.org/g7llctbo5/1551.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/g7llctbo5/)

(https://s26.postimg.org/s6x3k4h91/1552.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/s6x3k4h91/)

(https://s26.postimg.org/u0008g2fp/1553.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/u0008g2fp/)


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Johann on December 17, 2017, 12:23:25 PM
For the purity of the experiment, independent comparison was made in different ways. But the result is one. I think factory sketches can be trusted.

(https://s26.postimg.org/nc3eluixh/1554.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/nc3eluixh/)


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Johann on December 17, 2017, 01:29:04 PM
A little more work on the plan from above.

(https://s26.postimg.org/72d8iy89l/05551.jpg)


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Johann on December 17, 2017, 01:32:12 PM
But for comparison and LaGG-3, too, the curvature of the wing is noticeable.

(https://s26.postimg.org/tsgypogut/lagg3-35-11.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/tsgypogut/)


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: 66misos on December 17, 2017, 03:05:48 PM
Johan,
fanatastic work. Keep going.
Regards,
   66misos


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Johann on December 17, 2017, 09:21:50 PM
Using the moment to later not be distracted made a lateral view of the three variants of La-5fn.

(https://s26.postimg.org/4qs7i2el1/0051.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/4qs7i2el1/)

(https://s26.postimg.org/aisbp7oet/0052.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/aisbp7oet/)

(https://s26.postimg.org/563hb30id/0053.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/563hb30id/)

(https://s26.postimg.org/4s25bhget/0055.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/4s25bhget/)


(https://s26.postimg.org/fmo6r5owp/51-10.jpg)


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on December 17, 2017, 10:21:15 PM
Hi Johann,

Quote
Using the moment to later not be distracted made a lateral view of the three variants of La-5fn.
Nice work but, for my eye, the shape of the upper profile of the nose has to be revised: the curve of the front part that I see in photos is  more rounded above the division line between front ring and side panels, besides one can see a sharp angle in the front where it starts and is open.

Quote
But for comparison and LaGG-3, too, the curvature of the wing is noticeable.
I fear that this is an impression given by the glossy surface. The outer part of the leading edge reflects the ski and makes a straight light line, but where the wing approaches the fuselage, its dark surface starts to be reflected and its dark reflection on the leading edge is above the light reflection of the ski. If you enlarge the photo, you can see a dark line where the wing reflects the fuselage, and the light reflection of the ski bends downwards. The real profile of the wing includes the dark part above the light line.

Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Johann on December 18, 2017, 06:04:36 AM
light glare here voobshe at anything. Look at the previous photos from La-5. In the end, there are factory spicifications and there is elementary geometry, in which at three different lengths of the frames of the wing, its front edge simply does not really align in a straight line. This contradicts everything.
By the hood, I understood you, I will once again check this moment


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Johann on December 18, 2017, 07:41:03 AM
Even in the absence of light glare, a straight line can not be made. Although the visual observation curve is not visible. I do not think that a person's eye can easily catch 2.5 degrees of deviation ...
(https://s26.postimg.org/xfje9w1ud/3-1.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/xfje9w1ud/)


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on December 18, 2017, 10:27:55 AM
Hi,
on this photo, the change in angulation looks real. It would be good to find other photos to confirm. Finns took some photos of their LaGG-3s from above, I think that an high resolution version could be available.
Something like this, maybe in better resolution.
(http://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/pages/lagg3/lg3/lg3f6.jpg)
Here I can't see changes in angulation

Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Johann on December 18, 2017, 12:19:34 PM
Hmm ... The same plane, but in a more favorable perspective ...
The same wing ... We will impose a vector. There is a discrepancy. Copy the same vectors on the wing from the TO ... Coincides. Put the wing on the photo. And it also co-exists.

(https://s26.postimg.org/b54q1ejbt/3-11.jpg)

(https://s26.postimg.org/oak87id7d/3-12.jpg)

(https://s26.postimg.org/5w9p3j0wp/3-13.jpg)

Visualization on a photo is not always correct due to distortion not only in perspective, but also can be distorted from exposure, focal length and aperture. This can be confirmed by any professional photographer who worked with old film cameras. BUT in the last series of photos I think convincingly showed the curvature of the wing.

  And about distortion even on a good photo here is an example. Visually the wing is straight. But we know something with you that this can not be on La-7. Right?

(https://s26.postimg.org/3sz9vv13t/la7-4.jpg)

You can independently calculate the curvature of the frames and set them at the zero mark and learn the linearity of the leading edge ...
The original can be read separately.

(https://s26.postimg.org/6ocd2q53t/image.jpg)


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on December 18, 2017, 06:47:53 PM
Hi Johann,
I'm very in doubt. On the drawing, the change of angulation is very well visible at naked eye.  On photos, I can't see this, and a light curvature can be due to photo distortion. When possible, I've observed even the shadows on the ground, without finding confirmations of changes of angulation in coincidence with the landing gear leg.
Regards
Massimo
 


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Johann on December 18, 2017, 06:54:32 PM
That is, even overlaying the drawing on the wing of the photograph is not proof, and all technical descriptions with dimensions and calculations should be thrown into the basket ???


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on December 18, 2017, 07:11:43 PM
Hi Johann,
if some description says explicitely that the swept angle changed, it is a reliable  thing. Another thing is if this conclusion is obtained from drawings without measures of the angle, because by missing the size of a not measured strut they change the angle unwillingly.
I've asked Alex Ruckovsky that found this drawing of German origin with measurements of the wing of a LaGG-3:
(http://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/pages/lagg3/wingdraw.jpg)
On the base of this drawing, one could deduct that the inner part had a greater sweep angle than the outer one, not smaller.
Anyway, the text doesn't say this, nor there are written measurements confirming it, so it is likely a simple error in drawing.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Johann on December 18, 2017, 07:33:36 PM
An error in the description of the construction? And in size error? I'm already afraid to fly on them, even a computer game)))
Massimo, you can explain - where on your drawings the vector on the wing has the parallelism of the wing edge, and on the centroplane again there is an angle of 2.5 degrees ????

(https://s26.postimg.org/3wxopuvyx/5353.jpg)

BUT! If even the factory measurements and drawings in the compartment with photos lie, then I see no reason to continue.


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Johann on December 18, 2017, 09:20:38 PM
(https://s26.postimg.org/5tueufmmx/05-11.jpg)
(https://s26.postimg.org/40ri641g9/05-12.jpg)


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on December 18, 2017, 10:09:01 PM
Hi,
the drawing isn't mine, I have just added a red line that is parallel to the leading edge of the outer console, and ends at the base of the leading edge of the inner part of the wing; this to make clear that the lines are not parallel, but in the opposite way of factory drawings, because seem to show the inner part more swept back.  Of course, this characteristic is (probably) not real: they measured the outer console with precision, but not the inner one. Besides I see only linear measurements, not angular ones. At least one angular measurement would have been necessary for a complete work.
The drawing is rotated simply for an error of scanning, but the inner and outer parts are rotated in the same way, so the scan let see that the lines weren't drawn exactly parallel in the original German drawing.

I have not said that measurements lie. Drawings can lie when they are not supported by measurements. When an information is meant, it has to be made intelligible with a quote, note or symbol. If they made a change in angulation well visible inside one drawing, they made it willingly. If the change in angulation results from combining two different drawings, it could be not made willingly and could be the result of a small error in a thing that was not considered important for the ends of that drawing.
If there are other drawings with the exact measurements of the struts inside the inner part of the wing, then it is different because those drawings mean that information as important and exact.

I see that you have drawn two versions of the upper view. At the present state of our knowledges, I think that the brown one is more likely.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Johann on December 18, 2017, 10:14:58 PM
While I will use both wing profiles to look for more information. Later it is easier to remove the erroneous than to fix everything on the finished one.


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on December 19, 2017, 07:25:34 AM
This is wise.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: 66misos on December 19, 2017, 08:52:39 AM
Hi,
change in angulation looks here more like on Massimo's red/green marked line drawings:
(http://www.asisbiz.com/il2/LaGG-3/Lavochkin-LaGG-3/images/Lavochkin-LaGG-3-GvIAP-USSR-1942-01.jpg)

while here it looks more like on Johann's yellow marked photo:
(https://abpic.co.uk/pictures/full_size_076/1114674-large.jpg)
 ???
Regards,
   66misos


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Johann on December 19, 2017, 09:03:54 AM
The view from above is almost ready. Both options.
(https://s26.postimg.org/qukgfcq55/005-1.jpg)
(https://s26.postimg.org/6yogzt93t/005-2.jpg)


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Johann on December 19, 2017, 09:14:25 AM
Misos, I would not focus on the last photo. This is a full-size mock-up at the Poklonnaya Gora memorial in Moscow. He has nothing in common with the real La-5 except similarity to the first glance (


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on December 19, 2017, 08:20:26 PM
Hi Johann,
I see an asymmetry in the frames of the sliding hood. Besides there is a line in the mid of the front window. I suppose that the guide rails of the sliding hood should be visible from above.
Are you sure that there is a traversal line over the bulged panels covering the guns?
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Johann on December 20, 2017, 04:16:59 AM
I see an asymmetry in the frames of the sliding hood.
I do not even know how it happened, but I fixed it
Quote
Besides there is a line in the mid of the front window.
The front panel of the armored glass was divided in half.
(https://s26.postimg.org/qdlx72f6d/image.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/qdlx72f6d/)
Quote
I suppose that the guide rails of the sliding hood should be visible from above.
O! Thank you for reminding me, I honestly forgot about them (
Quote
Are you sure that there is a traversal line over the bulged panels covering the guns?
this is a rivet line, in the normal drawing it will be seen more clearly
(https://s26.postimg.org/v3buvo66x/005-5.jpg)


(https://s26.postimg.org/9r4cxzm8p/005-3.jpg)
(https://s26.postimg.org/h8dkd7brt/005-4.jpg)


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Johann on December 20, 2017, 08:05:55 AM
For the future - is it worth mentioning a modification and a series of aircraft?

(https://s26.postimg.org/mu4kv01ud/-5-1.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/mu4kv01ud/)(https://s26.postimg.org/73ji1dil1/-5-2.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/73ji1dil1/)(https://s26.postimg.org/3z8u4l1sl/-5-3.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/3z8u4l1sl/)
(https://s26.postimg.org/e5cu9twt1/-5-4.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/e5cu9twt1/)(https://s26.postimg.org/o5cc3gxg5/-5-5.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/o5cc3gxg5/)(https://s26.postimg.org/v0wkmkrx1/-5-6.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/v0wkmkrx1/)
(https://s26.postimg.org/n5m17riad/-5-7.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/n5m17riad/)


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on December 20, 2017, 08:42:45 AM
Hi Johann,
I think that the lower front strut of the windshield should appear thicker, and the photo shows a sort of slot on it.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Johann on December 20, 2017, 08:45:27 AM
Hi Johann,
I think that the lower front strut of the windshield should appear thicker, and the photo shows a sort of slot on it.
Regards
Massimo
Yes, it is true. I was a little mistaken in my calculations. I will fix it


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on December 20, 2017, 04:15:02 PM
Hi,
maybe, with the date of introduction into production of the variant.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Johann on December 25, 2017, 08:29:12 AM
While far from completion, but that is already ready. Before the holidays time is very short.

(https://s14.postimg.org/3yv9ljh29/1-5-1.jpg)


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on December 25, 2017, 11:19:07 AM
Hi, it looks good.
Is there an overposition between the main landing gear doors and the lower surface of the wing outside the bays?
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Johann on December 29, 2017, 07:58:06 AM
work moves slowly, but moves ... The lower plane is ready for completion.

(https://s10.postimg.org/7r96yzmmx/image.jpg)


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: learstang on December 29, 2017, 06:23:54 PM
Nice work on those drawings!

Regards,

Jason


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Johann on January 03, 2018, 11:17:10 AM
Incidentally began to draw more and La-7
Will be 4 pieces. early, late, three-gun, and La-7 produced according to the license in Czechoslovakia

(https://s9.postimg.org/n8e5k6n5b/image.jpg)


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on January 03, 2018, 08:20:07 PM
Hi,
great to have all the family of Lavochkins drawn by the same hand.
I suggest to have a further look to the spinner. In my idea, the curvature between the front part and the rear part changes in sharper way, unlike the La-5. 
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Johann on January 04, 2018, 12:27:30 AM
Massimo, did I understand correctly - are we talking about the air deflectors of an sharper?

(https://s9.postimg.org/n8em3cm0v/image.jpg)


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on January 04, 2018, 08:08:31 AM
Hi Johann,
I meant a characteristic shape of the spinner (somewhat common to MiG-3 and Il-2) that is rarely well represented on drawings
(http://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/pages/la-7/spinner.jpg)
this is the discontinuity in radius of the profile of the spinner, that has a nearly conical part with nearly straight profile and ends (in La-7) with a spherical tip.
Now that I see, the spinner is very similar to that of La-5, but I think that this characteristic is less noticeable on La-5, perhaps due to the different ending of the part.
If you draw all versions, I think that twoseaters would be interesting  to complete the collection.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Johann on January 04, 2018, 09:43:21 AM
At La-7 there were 3 different types of propeller fairings. Early than anything other than the ratchet did not differ from La-5. Later were either compound where there is a difference in curvature or one-part ones - they are a little shorter. I will indicate all three types


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Johann on January 04, 2018, 10:25:10 PM
Massimo - I will allow myself to return to the old conversation about the curvature of the wing. Here is another picture where it is clearly visible.

(https://s9.postimg.org/6t7toviin/image.jpg)
(https://s9.postimg.org/qntvazq0f/image.jpg)


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on January 05, 2018, 06:17:22 PM
Hi Johann,
this is convincing. So, all drawings and models made up to now have to be wrong. Terrible!
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Johann on January 05, 2018, 11:05:45 PM
In real size, this section of 650mm with a deviation of 2.5 * It is almost not noticeable. I when collected on La-5 materials too if fairly did not pay to this attention, yet did not pay attention to the drawing of a wing from the book of the technical description. He compared the wings of LaGG-3 and La-5 ... For a long time he looked at all sorts of pictures ... This curvature is noticeable only if the wing is fully or 85-90% view from above. But the fact remains that the wings of the wing are crooked. For me it was a revelation.
And as for the drawings - there are still no more or less correct drawings on either LaGG-3 or La-5. It's unfortunate, but they are not all right ((((And it's not just in the wing.) After analyzing the drawings of 5 different authors, the hood, the keel, the distance and the contours of the fuselage, the angle of docking and the flanking of the wing are not correct
With all this, I'm very sad that 4 out of 5 Russian authors. And they can not make the correct drawings of the Russian aircraft (((((


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: learstang on January 06, 2018, 04:30:26 AM
One big problem with determining the exact dimensions and contours of the LaGG-3 and La-5 is that being mostly wooden, none have survived to the present day except in pieces. At least with the La-7, there are two preserved examples, the example at the Czech Prague-Kbely museum, and Ivan Kozhedub's machine at Monino, Russia.

Regards,

Jason


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: 66misos on January 06, 2018, 06:10:27 AM
Hi Johan,
excellent work - bot drawings and supporting material/photos as a evidence. Great!
Will you do also LaGG-3?
Regards,
   66misos


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Johann on January 06, 2018, 08:50:05 AM
I already mentioned - I want to make all production series LaGG-3, La-5 and La-7


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Johann on January 06, 2018, 11:06:56 AM
A little work with La-7

early series (late all I will not do is just give as an insertion the modified elements)

(https://s18.postimg.org/7rsu9c085/7_2.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/7rsu9c085/)

3 guns

(https://s18.postimg.org/bo665bsxh/7_3.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/bo665bsxh/)

Czechoslovak license

(https://s18.postimg.org/7rsu9cfnp/image.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/7rsu9cfnp/)


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on January 06, 2018, 01:21:22 PM
Hi Johann,
it looks an excellent work.
My only complain is about the spinner, that doesn't resemble perfectly to what I see on photos.
About Czech La-7, I don't think that they were built on license. They were supplied from Soviet stocks at the end of the war, the larger tail wheel and the ring aerial are postwar Czech modifications visible on few photos, both on 2-guns and 3-guns planes.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Johann on January 06, 2018, 01:40:41 PM
Yes, but they still differed in wing fusion, heat-resistant panels and ventilation of the cabin. But in this case, no one of the Soviet photographs of the same elements were not observed.


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Johann on January 06, 2018, 02:10:16 PM
My only complain is about the spinner, that doesn't resemble perfectly to what I see on photos.

But I wrote that on La-7 there were 3 types of a fairing of the screw. But the problem is that to systematize what on which series was. And based on the fact that it was possible to put what were at the moment in the warehouse here is already confusion. I'll make all 3 titles on the tab.

cook from La-5

(https://s18.postimg.org/gabh5i8r9/1440871293_la7tk-2.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/gabh5i8r9/)

cook of a later type

(https://s18.postimg.org/n26hljpj9/istrebitel-la-7-12.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/n26hljpj9/)

cook of a completely different form.

(https://s18.postimg.org/6eezj3khx/la_7_03.gif) (https://postimg.org/image/6eezj3khx/)

At La-7 could and the blade of the propeller is different. I will also do this as a tab. By the way, on La-7 there were 2 types of basic chassis stoic


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on January 06, 2018, 06:48:41 PM
I suggest to consider only photos closely from the side. In my opinion, all the spinners are the same, and apparently identical to those of La-9/11.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Johann on January 06, 2018, 07:42:44 PM
On the first photo with a ratchet for a starter. On the second one already without him, On the third is another form.

Here are the varieties of fairings that can be seen in the photographs La-7.

(https://s18.postimg.org/xa7egxd05/image.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/xa7egxd05/)


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on January 07, 2018, 10:31:47 AM
Hi,
in my idea, none of the shapes reflect well the one I see on photos. The diameter around the line in front of the blades should be more or less as the second drawing, then a brief part with small radius, then a part nearly conical with wide radius, and the tip should be of small but constant radius as a sphere.  The ogival shape with continuous curvature on most drawings is an illusion due to seeing the plane in perspective from 3/4. Apart for the La-7TK that had the starter tooth, I can't see differences in shape of the spinner of La-7 in all the photos from the side I have seen.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Johann on January 07, 2018, 11:30:28 AM
In my opinion, it fits perfectly into its own contours.
(https://s18.postimg.org/ocdyby7g9/image.jpg)
Massimo you could not depict this fairing? Maybe I'm losing what some little thing?


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on January 07, 2018, 08:42:49 PM
Hi Johann,
I've tried to cut and paste parts of your drawing to show a version that I think is more resemblant.
(http://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/pages/la-7/spinner2.jpg)
As you see, there is a change of radius about at half of the length of the spinner.
You can obtain this from your second drawing, making more straight the sides  on the front.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Johann on January 08, 2018, 12:26:16 AM
it seems I have finished the very early La-5

(http://royalscale.ru/LaP/La-5_M-82_type-37_series_1-8_%28b%29.jpg)
(http://royalscale.ru/LaP/La-5_M-82_type-37_series_1-8_%28v%29.jpg)
(http://royalscale.ru/LaP/La-5_M-82_type-37_series_1-8_%28n%29.jpg)


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: learstang on January 08, 2018, 02:22:17 AM
Very nice! That looks like a very good representation of the La-5s built with the surplus LaGG-3 airframes.

Regards,

Jason


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Johann on January 08, 2018, 04:03:39 AM
(http://royalscale.ru/LaP/La-5_M-82A_type-37_series_9_%28b%29.jpg)
(http://royalscale.ru/LaP/La-5_M-82A_type-37_series_9_%28v%29.jpg)
(http://royalscale.ru/LaP/La-5_M-82A_type-37_series_9_%28n%29.jpg)


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on January 08, 2018, 09:03:10 AM
Hi Johann,
excellent work. Thank you for sharing it.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Johann on January 08, 2018, 11:24:20 AM
(http://royalscale.ru/LaP/La-5_M-82A-F_type-37_%28b%29.jpg)
(http://royalscale.ru/LaP/La-5_M-82A-F_type-37_%28v%29.jpg)
(http://royalscale.ru/LaP/La-5_M-82A-F_type-37_%28n%29.jpg)


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Johann on January 08, 2018, 12:34:45 PM
(http://royalscale.ru/LaP/La-5_M-82F_type-39_%28b%29.jpg)
(http://royalscale.ru/LaP/La-5_M-82F_type-39_%28v%29.jpg)
(http://royalscale.ru/LaP/La-5_M-82F_type-39_%28n%29.jpg)
(http://royalscale.ru/LaP/La-5_M-82F_type-39_%28p%29.jpg)


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on January 08, 2018, 09:42:33 PM
hi Johann,
could you add the English translation of the notes in Russian, please?
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Johann on January 08, 2018, 10:18:23 PM
With my knowledge of English))) Although technical it is easier. Yes, I will do it in the final layout.
Will it be of interest and whether to do La-5UTI and La-7UTI (I wanted to give them the same in the tab)

Yes, I still wanted to arrange the family tree of La planes. Is it worth it to give simply or how to highlight what changed from version to version? I'm talking about the external difference


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on January 09, 2018, 07:38:48 AM
Hi Johann,
of course, profiles of La-5UTI and La-7 UTI are very useful to complete the family.  Notes on differences, as drawn on the 'In action' monographs, would make things even more clear to see.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: 66misos on January 09, 2018, 08:30:06 AM
Hi,
here are some translations:

Только в частях ПВО - Only in air defense units
Варианты остекления кабины - Cockpit glazing options
Антенна типична ранним выпускам - Antenna typical for early series
Антенна типична поздним выпускам - Antenna typical for late series
Усиленные створки капотов - Reinforced cowling flaps (?)
Только в варианте разведчика - Only in the scout/recon version

Regards,
   66misos


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: learstang on January 09, 2018, 06:54:41 PM
Thank you for the translation, Michal, and thank you for the great drawings, Johann!

Best Regards,

Jason


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Johann on January 09, 2018, 11:27:55 PM
(http://royalscale.ru/LaP/La-5_M-82F_type-41_UTI%28b%29.jpg)
(http://royalscale.ru/LaP/La-5_M-82F_type-41_UTI%28v%29.jpg)
(http://royalscale.ru/LaP/La-5_M-82F_type-41_UTI%28n%29.jpg)


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Johann on January 10, 2018, 01:45:12 AM
(http://royalscale.ru/LaP/La-5_M-82FN_1_type-39_%28b%29.jpg)
(http://royalscale.ru/LaP/La-5_M-82FN_1_type-39_%28v%29.jpg)
(http://royalscale.ru/LaP/La-5_M-82FN_1_type-39_%28n%29.jpg)


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Johann on January 10, 2018, 01:53:21 AM
(http://royalscale.ru/LaP/La-5_M-82FN_2_type-39_%28b%29.jpg)
(http://royalscale.ru/LaP/La-5_M-82FN_2_type-39_%28v%29.jpg)
(http://royalscale.ru/LaP/La-5_M-82FN_2_type-39_%28n%29.jpg)


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Johann on January 10, 2018, 01:55:39 AM
(http://royalscale.ru/LaP/La-5_M-82FN_3_type-39_%28b%29.jpg)
(http://royalscale.ru/LaP/La-5_M-82FN_3_type-39_%28v%29.jpg)
(http://royalscale.ru/LaP/La-5_M-82FN_3_type-39_%28n%29.jpg)


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Johann on January 10, 2018, 01:57:05 AM
Finished La-5 UTI. And La-5FN three production series.


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on January 10, 2018, 08:01:44 AM
Hi,
about La-5UTI, I made a rough page still waiting to be refined and linked from the main page.
http://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/pages/la5/la5uti/la5uti.html (http://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/pages/la5/la5uti/la5uti.html)
I have collected photos of 4 or 5 variants of La-5UTI  (including all types of engine). I hope that they can be useful.
The most documented variant has a rear sliding hood cut obliquely at its end.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: otto on January 10, 2018, 08:26:46 AM
Hello Massimo, your page on the La-5UTI is really welcome: I started a 1/48 Zvezda kit with the AML two-seater conversion, but I temporarily stopped it waiting for better documentation.
Your profile of number 15 is good as usual, but I noticed that the picture shows the extended metal plate under the cockpit behind the exhaust, typical of late series La-5FN, while the profile has the short plate.
Be ready because I have lots of questions on this subject! ;D


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Johann on January 10, 2018, 09:03:42 AM
Massimo - Thank you so much. And then to confess to admit I did not really go into the matter of UTI. And your article is a great help. I think to leave pages with plans for La-5 UTI and add a page with variants of cabs and motors. But only after I specify which assembly is typical of which plant and time

otto - All right. La-5UTI was produced on the basis of both La-5F and la-5FN. Number "15" This is UTI based on La-5FN.


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Johann on January 10, 2018, 11:01:44 AM
(http://royalscale.ru/LaP/La-5_M-82F_type-41_UTI%28p%29.jpg)


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Johann on January 10, 2018, 01:47:31 PM
(http://royalscale.ru/LaP/La-7_ASh-82FN%28b%29.jpg)
(http://royalscale.ru/LaP/La-7_ASh-82FN%28v%29.jpg)
(http://royalscale.ru/LaP/La-7_ASh-82FN%28n%29.jpg)
(http://royalscale.ru/LaP/La-7_ASh-82FN%28p%29.jpg)


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Johann on January 10, 2018, 02:28:01 PM
(http://royalscale.ru/LaP/S97%28b%29.jpg)
(http://royalscale.ru/LaP/S97%28v%29.jpg)
(http://royalscale.ru/LaP/S97%28n%29.jpg)


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on January 10, 2018, 09:20:31 PM
Hello Massimo, your page on the La-5UTI is really welcome: I started a 1/48 Zvezda kit with the AML two-seater conversion, but I temporarily stopped it waiting for better documentation.
Your profile of number 15 is good as usual, but I noticed that the picture shows the extended metal plate under the cockpit behind the exhaust, typical of late series La-5FN, while the profile has the short plate.
Be ready because I have lots of questions on this subject! ;D
Hi Otto,
you are right, and I fear to have made the same mistake on other profiles too because I never noticed the difference before. I'll have to correct the profiles before their definitive publication.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on January 10, 2018, 09:28:04 PM
Quote
Massimo - Thank you so much. And then to confess to admit I did not really go into the matter of UTI. And your article is a great help. I think to leave pages with plans for La-5 UTI and add a page with variants of cabs and motors. But only after I specify which assembly is typical of which plant and time

otto - All right. La-5UTI was produced on the basis of both La-5F and la-5FN. Number "15" This is UTI based on La-5FN.

Hi Johann,
I'm happy that the work was useful.
I appreciate your drawings of UTI. Just, I think that the rear sliding hood should have a small noticeable step with the rear fuselage.
Another thing: the small ugly photo collage depicts a further model, with open rear canopy but based on a low-back La-5F, with an opaque hump added behind the opening. It was probably a conversion from an existing plane, I don't know if it was unique.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Johann on January 10, 2018, 11:19:40 PM
Quote
Another thing: the small ugly photo collage depicts a further model, with open rear canopy but based on a low-back La-5F, with an opaque hump added behind the opening. It was probably a conversion from an existing plane, I don't know if it was unique.
No, it's a serial car. In addition to the aircraft with the number 07 which is in your publication there is another photo with the number 01 that indicates that the machine is not unique.
(https://s10.postimg.org/pq314mer9/la5uti-1.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/pq314mer9/)


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Johann on January 11, 2018, 02:18:16 AM
(http://royalscale.ru/LaP/La-7_ASh-82FN_type-46_UTI%28b%29.jpg)
(http://royalscale.ru/LaP/La-7_ASh-82FN_type-46_UTI%28v%29.jpg)
(http://royalscale.ru/LaP/La-7_ASh-82FN_type-46_UTI%28n%29.jpg)


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: 66misos on January 11, 2018, 05:46:05 PM
Hi Johann,
AFAIK La-7 had venturi/pitot tube somewhere between main landing gears, usually behind open landing gears door.
I remember I found also photo showing it - Massimo had it on his profile, may be he has that photo (from Kbely?):
(http://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/pages/la-7/la-7colors/32giap/66of32giap-la72guns-lpr.jpg)
Regards,
   66misos


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on January 11, 2018, 06:05:37 PM
Hi,
it is represented on the drawings of MBI. I think to have seen the photo on some walkaround too, but I don't remember well where.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Johann on January 11, 2018, 06:54:11 PM
Yes indeed. I missed this moment. Thank you very much for pointing out the mistake. In the next few days I will correct this defect.

(https://s10.postimg.org/ub8i51knp/image.png) (https://postimg.org/image/ub8i51knp/)


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: 66misos on January 11, 2018, 07:35:10 PM
Hi Johan,
here is the photo of La-7 in Kbely museum, Prague:
(http://www.arcair.com/awa01/201-300/awa300-La-7/images_Martin_Sedlacek/k152_02.jpg)
That venturi tube, or whatever it is, is clearly visible between the door of the landing gears.
regards,
   66misos


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Johann on January 15, 2018, 07:22:02 PM
Fixed inaccuracies in the profiles of La-7 La-7UTI and S-97. Replaced profiles. For convenience, you can see everything in the compartment here - http://royalscale.ru/forum/monography


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on January 15, 2018, 09:54:37 PM
Very interesting work. Thank you for sharing.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Johann on January 15, 2018, 11:01:55 PM
Massimo - thanks
In the meantime, I started work on LaGG-3. In parallel I'm working on the addition of La-5 and La-7

(https://s17.postimg.org/g2mqpxvdn/image.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/g2mqpxvdn/)


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on January 16, 2018, 09:07:53 AM
Hi,
I only would suggest not to make a full drawing for Czech ones. They were from Soviet stocks, both two guns and 3 guns, and the modification to the tail wheel and the ring aerial were postwar modifications visible on very few known photos, and involved both variants. It could be better to take these details and add them as alternatives on the drawings of both Soviet types.
Besides, the main version of La-5UTI should be that with the oblique end of the second sliding hood. For what I know, only one photo of the type with the vertical rear frame is known, and it was a reconnaissance plane converted in Leningrad.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Johann on January 16, 2018, 09:34:30 AM
I will take into account the ears. I do not agree with c97. There is a completely different form of the wing lining. and even on the postwar issues of La7, I have not seen such. We can assume that this is after repair, but at least 3 photos of different planes with this form are known

I also want to more closely compose the drawings. Add a scale ruler. Colleagues say when everything is complete it will be possible to add photos and description and print a book. But the last seems ridiculous)


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on January 16, 2018, 10:34:20 AM
The history of Czech La-7s is well described in the MBI monograph. They could have had some modification, but they lasted few time. The planes were stopped on the ground for long time after the war to check the conservation of the wood parts, then their use was confirmed safe but the planes were already old.
To publish a book with photos, one should have rights on the photos and high resolution scans. It is the main thing that stopped me till now. For La-7s, photos of the museum of Prague could be a good staty. The plane of monino could be interesting, but looks in worst state, with the engine and cowling bended strangely downwards.
Some uncomplete remains of La-5 do exist in USA, it could be good to have some measurements on them, at least for the width of the fuselage.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: warhawk on January 16, 2018, 11:55:48 AM
Massimo - thanks
In the meantime, I started work on LaGG-3. In parallel I'm working on the addition of La-5 and La-7

Hello Johann,

I am glad to see that You decided to tackle on the entire La(GG) series.
Regarding the LaGG-3, I would like to point Your attention to Junpei Temma, a Japanese scale modeler, who always draws up his own plans prior to his builds.
He has tackled the LaGG-3 in minute detail, noticing for example, that the 66th series (besides having different windscreen), also had a bit longer cowling.
There were apparently some variations in the trailing edge of the ventral cooler fairing, too.
Sooo, if it's not too late, please take a look at them for some guidance and inspiration.
Yoyuso LaGG-3 (English) (http://www.geocities.jp/yoyuso/lagg3/lagg3e.html)

Regards,
Aleksandar


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on January 16, 2018, 03:43:07 PM
Hi Aleksandar,
I am very impressed for this article, these drawings and this model from the Japanese modeler.
Personally, I doubt of the discovery about the nose and how it was obtained. The perspective can easily alter proportions between nose and rear of fuselage.
For what I know, Tbilisi's series 60-70 were lightened  in comparison to previous series. Then, why to extend the nose?
I don't think that the engine or the fuel tank were bigger than previous models. Extending the nose changes the center of gravity, and it must be compensated by shifting the wing forward, or lenghtening the rear of the fuselage, or adding some weight in the rear part of fuselage.
For example, the MiG-3 was longer than the MiG-1 because they have to move the engine forward to balance the fuel tank added behind the water cooler.
If there are other reasons to say that there was a difference in length  of late LaGG-3s, I am interested to know.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Johann on January 16, 2018, 06:49:08 PM
located more tightly. So it is more convenient or to leave as it was?


(https://s10.postimg.org/4a1aumv3r/-7_v2-1.png)
(https://s10.postimg.org/t3auvb19j/-7_v2-2.png)
(https://s10.postimg.org/yrh5m7l1j/-7_v2-3.png)
(https://s10.postimg.org/m02zfoo47/-7_v2-4.png)


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Johann on January 17, 2018, 07:44:36 AM
(https://s10.postimg.org/6n1bmhk7b/-5_v2-1-1.png)
(https://s10.postimg.org/dq972452f/-5_v2-2-1.png)
(https://s10.postimg.org/dq9723xcn/-5_v2-3-1.png)
(https://s10.postimg.org/tbqim3bvr/-5_v2-4-1.png)
(https://s10.postimg.org/yn5f6siiv/-5_v2-5-1.png)
(https://s10.postimg.org/futk37tuf/-5_v2-6-1.png)
(https://s10.postimg.org/efrzeifwn/-5_v2-7-1.png)
(https://s10.postimg.org/gx3qlrs3b/-5_v2-8-1.png)
(https://s10.postimg.org/fi25x0w53/-5_v2-9-1.png)
(https://s10.postimg.org/v3jhh0idz/-5_v2-10-1.png)
(https://s10.postimg.org/o1lju86w7/-5_v2-11-1.png)


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: 66misos on January 17, 2018, 08:43:25 AM
Hi
...print a book. But the last seems ridiculous)
Hi Johann,
you could consider to submit and sell your vector drawings via pages like https://www.the-blueprints.com/blueprints (https://www.the-blueprints.com/blueprints). And it would be even better if your drawings have sepparate layers for lines, rivets etc. May be not a lot of money but still better than nothing. You did a serious work so why not have at least a little benefit from it.
Regards,
   66misos


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on January 17, 2018, 08:55:01 AM
Hi Johann,
about La-7UTI, the coolers you drew appeared only on few planes. I collected something on La-7UTI here:
http://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/pages/la-7/la-7colors/uti/uti.html (http://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/pages/la-7/la-7colors/uti/uti.html)
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Johann on January 18, 2018, 08:39:49 AM
66misos - I was promised to help solve the issue with photos. It is possible and the book will ...

Massimo Tessitori - This is still not the final version (We are still working with colleagues on the plans)


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Johann on January 21, 2018, 01:28:39 PM
I accidentally stumbled upon two interesting photos of LaGG-3. Maybe someone knows what this squadron is?

(https://s14.postimg.org/4t0jj9w31/195544497_B8962642_B.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/4t0jj9w31/)

(https://s14.postimg.org/mvtmahznh/242404497_B896_CB331.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/mvtmahznh/)


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Johann on February 25, 2018, 01:54:48 PM
With LaGG-3 Case is moving, but very slowly. There are too many confusions with inter-series machines (I decided at the same time to make technical marking arrangements for LaGG-3 La 5. I hope that it will be useful later.If anyone has any desire to help, there are a few questions about unreadable inscriptions .Suddenly there are photos where you can clearly read what is written on the marking.

(http://thumb.ibb.co/mDVBqx/image.jpg) (http://ibb.co/mDVBqx)

Later all will be numbered and separately in a larger size made traforets (with translation into English if needed)


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Johann on February 25, 2018, 02:00:52 PM
And yes, I almost forgot. A few days ago, very little inaccuracies were caught with colleagues. They found, corrected, drank 2 bottles of cognac. We combined useful with pleasant)
As usual, the most recent fixes can be viewed here.

http://royalscale.ru/forum/monography

I hope that I do not violate any rules giving a link to a third-party resource, and not close previews here


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on February 25, 2018, 04:11:35 PM
Hi Johann,
no rule violation, it is to your own artwork. It is excellent. Tank you for sharing it. 
Besides, this is full of links to other sources useful for researches.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: warhawk on February 25, 2018, 04:23:53 PM
Great plans, I am glad that You have decided to make a complete study of wartime La series.

One question regarding the La-7 nose:
How did You determine this shape (and lengths "a" and "b")?
I feel nearly all models and other scale drawings get this wrong...

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4676/40478013761_4615fde724_o.jpg)


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Johann on February 25, 2018, 04:34:18 PM
All sizes and angles were taken - partly by factory material, partly by technical design books and aircraft assemblies, partly by successful photographs. The truth of the latter is definitely not determined due to distortion. I already wrote that a familiar professional photographer explained the distortion, depending on the exposure and the focal length of the same subject. And about the mistakenness of other drawings and models ... One wing of what it costs. When I drew a wing with my colleagues I thought that somewhere we were wrong, but everything turned out the opposite.


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: warhawk on February 25, 2018, 04:43:27 PM
Thanks for the quick explanation.
Please keep up with the good work!

Regards
Aleksandar


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Johann on April 07, 2018, 11:34:59 AM
Kind time of day of the colleague. Almost finished the little manual on La-5. It remains to add a little description and a couple of rare photos. How do you think? Is everything clear and accessible?

http://royalscale.ru/Book/Tom2_Lf-5-obr.pdf


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on April 07, 2018, 12:46:16 PM
Hi Johann,
it seems an excellent work. Thank you for sharing it.
Some more notes would be welcome, as the timeframe and number of production of each variant, if they are known.
I would add a profile of a plane of July 1943, the transition time with the new grey camouflage and the old markings without white outline.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Johann on April 07, 2018, 01:00:51 PM
Yes, thank you, Massimo. I plan to give a description of the basic TTX, with reference, at what time was this or that type released, and indicate their number. In terms of color stains ... I realized that they do not go out with me (((But I'll try to do something with them that they look more beautiful.


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Johann on April 07, 2018, 08:27:20 PM
Perezalil. Has added a page with technical inscriptions, Added a page with sections of the fuselage. Created a page with tactical and technical characteristics and a short list of modifications
http://royalscale.ru/Book/Tom2_Lf-5-obr.pdf


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on April 07, 2018, 09:03:05 PM
Hi, I think that there is some error on the sections. The diameter of the first section of the engine doesn't fit with the profile of the cowling. Besides I think that sections should show the protrusions on the cowling, the wing roots, the division between fin and rudder and other details.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Johann on April 07, 2018, 09:42:40 PM
Oh oh oh ... Massimo thank you. I missed one cross section ((((Probably worth a little rest.) I fixed it, I'll complete the protrusions and joints, but tomorrow's tomorrow.


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Johann on April 07, 2018, 11:30:31 PM
I could not lie down until I corrected the cross sections of the fuselage.
http://royalscale.ru/Book/Tom2_La-5-obr.pdf


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on April 08, 2018, 12:41:41 PM
Hi Johann,
the work is certainly improved.
In my opinion, there are some things still to do:
the first section should show the air intake above the cowling; the section where the plate covering the exhaust tubes should show both the inside profile and the outside, and the outside should show the protrusion covering the exhaust pipe;
the pipe itself should be represented there, and the drawing (even the upper view) could show that the exhaust flap can be closed.
It would be interesting to show one more section, with the asymmetrical protrusions for the guns over the nose.
Besides I would add the section of the canopy.

Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on April 15, 2018, 08:33:47 PM
Hi Johann,
I see that you have made a page with the evolution of La-5.
I would ask: why the wing of the third profile is painted pink?
Another thing: I think that the change in shape of the tail wheel doors should be remarked with pink too.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: barneybolac on April 15, 2018, 08:49:44 PM
I could not lie down until I corrected the cross sections of the fuselage.
http://royalscale.ru/Book/Tom2_La-5-obr.pdf

Excellent work.
Will there be an English version?


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Johann on April 15, 2018, 10:16:16 PM
Massimo Tessitori
The wing is a transition from five fuel tanks to three, in all subsequent series.
About the leaves thank you, I missed this moment (

barneybolac
My knowledge of English is just awful (((But if I agree with a familiar translator, why not ...

Already corrected and made changes


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Johann on April 17, 2018, 07:49:57 PM
It was once again amended and supplemented.
In addition, there is a translation into English. Thank you colleague who knows him perfectly. And if everything turns out, then in late May, early June, this book will be printed in the typogaphy.

http://royalscale.ru/Book/Tom2_La-5-obr.pdf


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: barneybolac on April 19, 2018, 07:27:19 AM
It was once again amended and supplemented.
In addition, there is a translation into English. Thank you colleague who knows him perfectly. And if everything turns out, then in late May, early June, this book will be printed in the typogaphy.

http://royalscale.ru/Book/Tom2_La-5-obr.pdf

Thank you for the translation you have also help solve a question that i have been looking into for some time now.
You have given me the Bort # for this aircraft.

http://www.airforce.ru/history/savasleika/index.htm

(http://i64.tinypic.com/2vhvko6.jpg)

(http://i63.tinypic.com/2v84k9e.jpg)


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on April 19, 2018, 08:14:54 AM
Quote
Thank you for the translation you have also help solve a question that i have been looking into for some time now.
You have given me the Bort # for this aircraft.
Hi,
what is this number? I would be interested to draw a profile.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: barneybolac on April 19, 2018, 08:57:15 AM
Quote
Thank you for the translation you have also help solve a question that i have been looking into for some time now.
You have given me the Bort # for this aircraft.
Hi,
what is this number? I would be interested to draw a profile.
Regards
Massimo

#20 its in his PDF.

http://royalscale.ru/Book/Tom2_La-5-obr.pdf


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on April 19, 2018, 10:15:39 AM
Hi, interesting.
But, is there a photo or a report, or is it an extrapolation of a summer camouflaged plane?
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: Johann on April 24, 2018, 08:50:39 AM
Already almost the final version. I'm waiting for the final translation of the articles into English and correcting the inscriptions on the drawings.
http://royalscale.ru/Book/Tom2_La-5-obr.pdf


Title: Re: The most accurate drawings of La-5
Post by: learstang on April 29, 2018, 07:13:34 AM
Excellent work, Johann! I wish I'd had some of those drawings when I wrote my book on the Lavochkin fighters a couple of years ago.

Best Regards,

Jason