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Print Page - Il-2 question? Answered!

Sovietwarplanes

Great Patriotic War Aviation => Ilyushins => Topic started by: righidan on March 08, 2023, 09:15:58 AM



Title: Il-2 question? Answered!
Post by: righidan on March 08, 2023, 09:15:58 AM
Dear friends,
   As Jason Nicholas Moore rightly says, the Ilyushin Il-2 is regarded as the Russian equivalent of the Spitfire.
   But for a number of reasons, to describe the differences between the more than 36000 planes produced, in the West have been used several invented subtypes, that have also been used in Russian literature, as in the official documents all the serial planes were called just Il-2.
   Now for the first time we have a description of the several differences between all the Il-2 series, starting from 1941 and ending in 1945!
   The author of this study is Professor Ivan Rodionov, who published a first article with scale drawings from factory material, in the May edition of Modelist Konstructor for the year 1982, from which most if not all the subsequent scale drawings are derived.
   Research discovers new material, so after little more than forty years, he published a second article in January 2023 in M-Hobby with scale drawings by Trufanov.
   Now he has prepared the most detailed description that I have ever seen of all the visible differences in the different series produced by the different factories.
   Thanks to Massimo courtesy, you can find the first part, dedicated to the first single seaters produced by Zavod 18 in 1941, with the serial number 18 6 XX XX.
   It is 126 pages long, with just about 10% of text, and 90% of images.
   You can find it in English at the index address https://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/pages/index.html
   And the good news are that other parts will follow, and I hope that in about one week time, you will be able to enjoy the description of the 18 7 XX XX series.
   Then others will follow describing the other factories and the two seaters.
   Obviously many things still remain to be clarified, and so corrections and additions are welcome, but I would say that with the information we have now everybody can produce an Il-2 model faithful to the original.
Regards
Daniele


Title: Re: Il-2 question? Answered!
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on March 08, 2023, 01:31:00 PM
Well done Daniele. Thank you for your efforts.


Title: Re: Il-2 question? Answered!
Post by: John Thompson on March 09, 2023, 07:31:31 PM
Wow - very impressive! It's an honour to Massimo's web site to have documents like this available on it - thank you very much, Daniele!

John


Title: Re: Il-2 question? Answered!
Post by: righidan on March 18, 2023, 10:06:26 PM
Dear friends,
   The second installment of Prof. Rodionov about the single seater of the 18 (7) series is just online, and you can find it at the above address or at the end of:
https://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/pages/il-2/il-2.htm
Enjoy!
Regards
Daniele


Title: Re: Il-2 question? Answered!
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on March 23, 2023, 09:19:54 PM
Thank you Daniele, the work is very informative.
The 18 (7) series were the typical singleseaters of 1942 made by Factory 18.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: Il-2 question? Answered!
Post by: righidan on March 29, 2023, 03:24:51 PM
Dear friends,
   Thanks to Massimo, he has uploaded three files, describing the single seaters produced by factory 1, 30 and 381.
   So now we have a description of the series of all the single seaters.
   How you will see, it is not a simple situation, as all four plants introduced changes not simultaneously, most of them in the space of a couple of months, but some characteristics were peculiar to one zavod.
   Well, springtime has come and I would say that it is time to unbox our single seaters Il-2 and compare them to the drawings and to the description!
Regards
Daniele


Title: Re: Il-2 question? Answered!
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on March 30, 2023, 11:36:44 AM
Hi Daniele,
yes, the planes built by different factories had some pecularities both for their hardware and their painting. This research will allow to improve the existing page too.  Thank you and to prof. Rodionov for your efforts.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: Il-2 question? Answered!
Post by: righidan on April 13, 2023, 11:12:14 PM
Dear friends,
   Maybe you have already noticed it, but I wanted to draw your attention to the fact that Massimo has uploaded 270 pages of a detailed description of the Il-2 two seaters built by zavod 30, the builder of the "etalon" or prototype two seater.
   Prof. Rodionov has changed the page layout, choosing a landscape format, which allows seeing better the many photos in this work.
   I know that such an amount of information is impressive and intimidating, but I hope to hear comments and corrections, that will increase our collective knowledge of such an important airplane.
Regards
Daniele


Title: Re: Il-2 question? Answered!
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on April 14, 2023, 09:28:36 PM
Hi Daniele,
I'm very impressed for this file, thank you to you and compliments for Mr. Rodionov.
I've noticed a pair of small things. One photo is of planes of Zavod 1, not 30, and shows them still with old camouflag and markings, so it can't be of the fall but around July 1943. Another thing is that one photo, with the silver-black livery and the cover on the canopy, should be of a UIL-2 and not a combat version.
Being the painting of Il-2s made in factory, it can be used as a trace to identify the factory itself and sometimes the timeframe.
Anyway this is a very important work and will allow to improve the existing pages too.
Best regards
Massimo


Title: Re: Il-2 question? Answered!
Post by: righidan on April 28, 2023, 12:20:19 PM
Dear Friends,
   I suppose that by now you are expecting new files about the Il-2.
   What I had not expected is that the latest file about the zavod 18(7) two-seaters is almost 500 pages long!
   Massimo has just published it; I have to thank him for all his efforts, and for the corrections he suggested, which will be implemented in a future version of the last file.
   Any new correction and amendments will be as usual welcome.
Regards
Daniele


Title: Re: Il-2 question? Answered!
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on April 29, 2023, 06:41:37 AM
Hi Daniele,
thank you again for your efforts and compliments to Mr. Rodionov for his deep research. The most part of the work on this type is completed, and is a wide improvement over what was known before.
Best regards
Massimo


Title: Re: Il-2 question? Answered!
Post by: learstang on April 30, 2023, 05:59:39 PM
This will prove to be an excellent reference source! Thank you to all concerned!

Best Regards,

Jason


Title: Re: Il-2 question? Answered!
Post by: righidan on May 05, 2023, 09:51:49 AM
Dear friends,
   Thanks to Massimo courtesy and Prof. Rodionov work, you have a new file about the two seaters of zavod 18(8) the late war "arrows" that probably are the most impressed in the minds of old men like me.
   It will be "only" 65 pages, but to complete the two seaters' description, a last file of more than double that number of pages is nearing publication.
   And of course it will describe the zavod 1 two seaters.
Regards
Daniele


Title: Re: Il-2 question? Answered!
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on May 05, 2023, 05:29:04 PM
Hi Daniele,
thanks to you and to Mr Rodionov, the informations in this research are of great value.
Best regards
Massimo


Title: Re: Il-2 question? Answered!
Post by: righidan on May 15, 2023, 07:15:01 PM
Dear friends,
   Massimo has just published the latest work of Prof. Rodionov on the two seaters of zavod 1.
   If you believe that it is the latest part of this work, then soon you will be surprised!
Regards
Daniele


Title: Re: Il-2 question? Answered!
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on May 15, 2023, 10:42:25 PM
Hi Daniele,
thank to you and Mr. Rodionov for this important work. My curiosity about the next step is huge,
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: Il-2 question? Answered!
Post by: righidan on May 20, 2023, 10:11:35 AM
Dear friends,
   Massimo has just loaded a last installment on the Il-2; it is a file containing information about the airplane geometry, and above all the fuselage sections, that were missing from the excellent Trufanov drawings in MHobby.
   While it completes an exhaustive description of such an important airplane, it is not the end, because Prof. Rodionov has updated the files on the single seaters, which were originally published in a portrait format.
   Changing them to a landscape format, to make them uniform with the later variants, he has also updated them, and much enlarged.
   So stay tuned, as there is still some new material to be published!
Regards
Daniele


Title: Re: Il-2 question? Answered!
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on May 21, 2023, 11:34:15 AM
Hi Daniele, well made, after this work much more is known and clear about Il-2. I was a bit surprised looking at the rear fuselage section, I never realized that the curvature was so different between the upper and lower part. Thanks to you and prof.  Rodionov for this work.
Best regards
Massimo


Title: Re: Il-2 question? Answered!
Post by: warhawk on May 25, 2023, 10:40:21 AM
Amazing work.
Wait - there were two types of 'Arrow' wings?


Title: Re: Il-2 question? Answered!
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on May 29, 2023, 07:29:13 AM
For what I know, a first increase of the angle, compared to the prototype,  was already on early production Il-2s of 1941 and a further increase in late 1943.


Title: Re: Il-2 question? Answered!
Post by: righidan on May 31, 2023, 11:54:59 AM
Dear friends,
   Massimo is right.
   The central part of the Il-2 wing, said inspired to that of the DB-3, had a general geometry that did not change through its development.
   The external part of the wing had three main variations: an extension of the central part angle, 0 degrees, for the TsKB55 prototype only, illustrated on page 13.
   One angled by 8.5 degrees, as used in the TsKB55P prototype, the single seaters and the early two seaters, illustrated on page 15.
   Finally, what we usually call arrow, angled by 13.5 degrees, illustrated on page 20, used in the later two seaters.
   On page 23, you have a comparison of the latter two.
   I must say that work is in progress to prepare correct scale drawings of the prototypes, but it is impossible to guess a date when they will be ready.
   When there is a reasonable idea, you will of course know.
   Then, if you have the description of the zavod 18(6) single seaters, of something more than 100 pages, the good news is that Massimo has uploaded the revised version.
   To say revised is a little understatement, as now it has more than 400 landscape numbered pages.
   You can browse for little gems, like a scale drawing of the KAS-4 cassette for flares, on page 239, a detail often present but overlooked, you can hunt for photographs where they are visible, like on page 252 and 253.
   This time Massimo has not prepared a new entry, so you must download it from the March 7, 2023: a Research of Ivan Rodionov on single-seater Il-2s built in Factory 18 in 1941 line.
Regards
Daniele


Title: Re: Il-2 question? Answered!
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on June 02, 2023, 06:41:46 AM
Hi Daniele,
thank you for your efforts.
Someone has difficulty to open all the pdf files. I've checked, and my browser hadn't any problem in doing this.  If anyone interested can't access the files, he can try again changing his browser.
Best regards
Massimo


Title: Re: Il-2 question? Answered!
Post by: righidan on June 24, 2023, 09:11:43 AM
Dear friends,
   Massimo has just published the landscape version of the file on the single seaters of zavod 18(7).
   It is 230 pages long, and as the smaller files about the other single seaters of the zavods with lower production are almost done we should soon have a complete picture.
Regards
Daniele


Title: Re: Il-2 question? Answered!
Post by: righidan on September 08, 2023, 03:52:49 PM
Dear friends,
   Massimo has just published an article about the Il-2 prototypes, the TsKB-55, TsKB-57 and TsKB-55p.
   It is a more than one hundred pages pdf, with scale drawings in 1/72 and 1/48 scale, and many high-resolution photos from the state trials report.
   The late Klimov has prepared the original drawings, I have finalized and expanded them under Prof. Rodionov guidance, he has made available the original photos, and Massimo has prepared the pdf for everyone to enjoy.
   I believe that it is the most complete visual history of these airplanes produced today, but of course, any suggestion and correction of the inevitable mistakes is welcome.
Best regards
Daniele


Title: Re: Il-2 question? Answered!
Post by: Mark Proulx on September 08, 2023, 07:17:40 PM
Is the pdf available for us? If so, where? Link?

Mark Proulx


Title: Re: Il-2 question? Answered!
Post by: righidan on September 08, 2023, 11:15:45 PM
http://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/pages/

It is the first on the list.
Regards
Daniele


Title: Re: Il-2 question? Answered!
Post by: Mark Proulx on September 08, 2023, 11:21:11 PM
Thanks!

Mark Proulx


Title: Re: Il-2 question? Answered!
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on September 09, 2023, 07:39:38 AM
Hi,
Daniele has worked a lot on these vector drawings. He has acquired a graphical experience that could be helpful for future works of the site. Thank you for all your efforts, Daniele.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: Il-2 question? Answered!
Post by: righidan on December 02, 2023, 06:16:50 PM
Dear friends,
   Massimo has just published an article about the Il-2 prototype with the radial M-82 engine.
   It is 47 pages long, with many photos and seven-view drawings in 1/72 and 1/48 scale.
   The late Klimov had prepared the original drawings, but they have been much expanded and corrected using original material that was not available twenty years ago.
   Text and photos come from Prof. Rodionov, and Massimo has prepared the pdf for everyone to enjoy.
   It seems to me that this work is more correct than what I have seen published before, but as always, any suggestion and correction of the possible mistakes is much welcome.
Best regards
Daniele


Title: Re: Il-2 question? Answered!
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on December 03, 2023, 10:27:04 AM
Hi Daniele,
my part was just limited to upload and link the file, nothing comparable to your work on the text and drawings of the same page. Thanks to you and Rodionov for this work of the highest possible quality.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: Il-2 question? Answered!
Post by: righidan on January 25, 2024, 09:45:39 AM
Dear friends,
   Thanks to Massimo courtesy, you can access a new pdf from Prof. Rodionov about the Il-2 bis prototype.
   It has a canopy that is completely different from the production two seaters, and it has a quite interesting story.
   It also has a peculiar wing configuration with wooden outer wings, but with metal panels above the weapons, and as long as I know, it is the first time that it is illustrated with scale drawings.
   I thought that such a combination was rare, but I learned from prof. Rodionov that it was used by zavod 1 during the whole period of Il-2 production both for normal and arrow type wings until the middle of 1944.
   The Il-2 Bis was made in 1942, and the wreck that has been recovered from Lake Balaton was produced in 1944.
   From middle 1944 zavod 1 produced all-metal arrow type wings, like the airplane in the Aeronautical Museum Belgrade.
    Moreover he has seen the wing console of zavod 1 type among the set of plant drawings of zavod 30.
   It means zavod 30 also used it though we could not say when and how much, because Zavod 30 from the very beginning in 1942 produced full-wood wing consoles including those for the Il-2 with NS-37 canons and arrow-type wings.
   It too from the middle of 1944 produced all-metal arrow-type wings like the plane in the Prague museum.
    Therefore, these 37 much-illustrated pages have a relevance not only for this prototype, and I hope that you will enjoy them.
Regards
Daniele


Title: Re: Il-2 question? Answered!
Post by: righidan on February 11, 2024, 04:03:42 PM
Dear friends,
   It seems that good news for Il-2 lovers are in full swing.
   It has just been published the February issue of M-Hobby, with an article of Prof. Rodionov with drawings by Mr. Trufanov of a series 11 airplane of zavod 18, the one recuperated from Lake Ilmen.
   You can find an image of the underside at the address: https://zeughaus.ru/zhurnal-m-khobbi-2-2024/
   Other sites, like at https://www.ozon.ru/product/zhurnal-m-hobbi-2-2024-kollektiv-avtorov-1412334551/ also have the image of page 48, showing side views.
   I must say that the magazine has misprinted one of the drawings, and if you know the Il-2, you can study this page 48, and tell what the misprint has been!
Regards
Daniele


Title: Re: Il-2 question? Answered!
Post by: righidan on April 10, 2024, 11:45:34 AM
Dear friends,
   Massimo has just published a new article on the Il-2 with the UTK-1 turret.
   Apart from the interest of this single specimen, the illustrations show a sample of the rare first series with a metal fuselage, and we have done our best to represent correctly the UTK turret that is the same used in other Russian and lend-lease airplanes.
   We hope that you will enjoy this work too.
Regards
Daniele