Sovietwarplanes

And right to the next question:

Is there any good source for pictures of VVS airplanes used in the Manchurian campaign in August 1945? I just have an article in the german Fliegerrevue Extra magazine #7 and this is merely a translation of an older article from Mir Aviazij (forgot the exact issue). So if anyone has any pictures or knows where to find them, i would welcome and appreciate any help..

-Christian

Hi, :)
there is an article of Miroslav Morozov, in French, on Avions n.158. Is it a further translation of the work that you already have?
Massimo

Yes, at least it is the same author, so i guess it is the same. Seems that this article is showing up occasionally in many magazines in many different languages :-\ That's fine by me, for it reduces costs for the publishers, but i doubt that this will bring any new picture material, too..

Hi,
I'm also very interested into this "forgotten campaign", mainly for reason to build captured Japanese aircraft. I've found very little photographs beside those already mentioned. Only few additional that state something like "In flight over Manchuria/Korea", but are of poor quality and if you add usual amount of questionability... Very large number of availble pics show ground troops.
There is a bit more to be found on the subject of Japanese forces, and one of those is:
http://www.j-aircraft.com/research/joe_brennan/order_of_battle.htm
On large number of pics you can see plenty of captured and abandoned equipment, but USSR had no official interest into serious evaluation of captured aircraft. Only very small number of liaison (or similar) aircraft were used, as personal trophies of army commanders. Latest Japanese models of a/c were not deployed to China and Korea, but I'm going a bit OT here...
Please, take a look at my topic on J-aircraft, maybe that will give you some ideas:
http://www.j-aircraft.org/smf/index.php?topic=3845.0

Cheerz!

I forgot, I have some photos of captured Japanese planes in a Russian book. Could them be of any use?
Massimo :)

Actually i was looking for photos of russian airplanes, but of course, why not. It won't hurt to get the counterparts  ;) In fact, japanese aviation is another interest of mine.
But if your photos show that famous Ki-84 line-up, the japanese Bf 108, the Ki-51 "white 58" or the Ki-46 III of 100th Sentai then save your time, they are widespread like the Morozov article. Otherwise i would welcome your efforts, of course!

P.S. in my first post i forgot to mention the two Il-2 depicted on Pilawski's site, which suit our topic:

http://vvs.hobbyvista.com/Modeling/Ilyushin/Il-2/AM/Dual/index.php

Any source known for them, or are the original pictures in private ownership?

Same here, plus check that topic on Jap forum. I've posted few more pics in one place.
Both sides are interesting and info is scarce, so anything is helpful.

Cheers!

Hi Renato,

have you checked this book:

http://www.aviapress.com/viewonekit.htm?FRI-018

it's mainly Luftwaffe, but its is said it covers the Far East, too..I know this publication might be pretty well known, but maybe it's new to you ?? I personally hadn't had a look into it, so i couldn't give any statements about the content..

Thanks Chris, I know about that book, but I'm having trouble with ordering (payment method in fact) from Aviapress. Also, I found deveral items from thier catalogues for half the price in other stores or ebay.
Other options for this book are currently more expensive, still looking.
I have hard copy (real book? ;)? ) of "Under the Red Star", and I'm waiting for "Japan against Russia in the Sky of Nomonhan 1939" to arrive ( LINK (http://cgi.ebay.com/JAPAN-against-RUSSIA-in-the-Sky-of-Nomonhan-1939_W0QQitemZ250175251857QQihZ015QQcategoryZ10954QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) )

Anyway, to return to the topic, I've heard about Soviet fighters engaing Japanes over Japan mainland. So far only general notions about that, no details. Anybody familiar with those?

Cheers!

 
It's the same book I have.

Here is the list of jap images: Ki-57 M-716
Ki-79 at Mukden
ki-84 of 104th sentai (2 photos with different markings)
Ki-36 at Mukden
Ki-56 and 54
Me-108
Ki-46 III
Ki-45
 
 Massimo

Hi Massimo,

i would be interested in the two photos of the Ki-84s, as i know just the one depicted on this site (already linked by Renato):

http://www.j-aircraft.com/research/joe_brennan/order_of_battle.htm

I guess your picture of the Ki-45 is also the one from this site. If not, please post it, too! Unfortunately the rest sounds very familiar.

Massimo, any of those with Soviet markings? I guess not, otherwise you would say so with a cheerfull grin, ayeh?

Of little info about Japanese a/c in Manchurian and Korea, most of which I was able to find thanks to guys from j-aircraft, about 99% of captured equipment was handed over to the Chinese Communists. Korean Communists also captured significant number of a/c on their own. Everything, and especially aircraft, was in so bad contion due to the lack of spares that Soviets did not bother to take anything.
It is highly probable that all machines from those pics from Mukden ended up in Chinese hands. Quite frustrating, as it would be nice to build Ki-84 with Red Stars, and I have Ki-45-II, not -III, and a friend of mine offered me B7A1 Grace (apparently one was captured in good condition and used by Soviets, but no pics).
If anybody is thinking about Zero, in my opinion forget about that. There is a story about a Zero that crashed on Sakhalin, but it was damaged in crash landing, It was examined by Soviets, but they did not discover anything that would be worth bothering to fix it.

Regarding  Ki-45-III (the one with cool canopy), this is the only pic I have:
http://www.airpages.ru/cgi-bin/epg2.pl?page=imgki46
Pic is repeated in "Under the Red Star", but there its shown in mirror - props are turning in incorrect direction, and (surprisingly) its of a much poorer quality.

Cheerz

Hi, :)
unfortunately none of the planes has Soviet markings.? :'(
If you have images of Japanese planes with chinese markings, I would be interested to see them.

Christian, this image is of the same line, but shows partially the different makings of the second plane.
(http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/2540/ki84cs8.jpg)


Massimo

Hi Massimo, regarding the Finnish LaGG photos on this site by Jouni Ronkko - are they copyrighted from the books he used or had the copyright expired? I would like to use them for a video about that LaGG-3 (LG-3).

Cheers ,
Dave.

Hi Massimo,

and thanks for posting. So you want chinese planes now? Maybe we should rename the thread? ::)

Whatever, here are some japanese planes in chinese markings (i will leave out the most common pictures, as the color shot of the two chinese Ki-48 for example):

(http://imghost.webspell.eu/image.php?id=0cbae21519c7b2cae24008b46fda808a)
(http://imghost.webspell.eu/image.php?id=e50f97720611d68513798874edf0c1fc)
(http://imghost.webspell.eu/image.php?id=3f00171ddf1472a4cee95f0d97bf585a)
(http://imghost.webspell.eu/image.php?id=b3e2285a7eec6acf5b10543c150eccc1)
(http://imghost.webspell.eu/image.php?id=c6a39a6ab58ed1dd944ea8726aeaad96)
(http://imghost.webspell.eu/image.php?id=adcfc06b2be635cb967ac8498cb38b28)
(http://imghost.webspell.eu/image.php?id=da7abe04baa0d33b57e8bfe85af438ae)
(http://imghost.webspell.eu/image.php?id=d844857aaead81f02108b1b8ca701d70)

The next one is a true rarity, as it is the only pictorial evidence for the 9th sentai marking on a Ki-44
(Thanks to Jim Lansdale from j-aircraft.org). Notice the chinese roundels haven't been painted directly over the hinomarus as usual.

(http://imghost.webspell.eu/image.php?id=0f5ee062d349fe41ee99e488a994261d)

And the last -although not chinese - is one of my favorite web findings: a vichy-french Potez 25 in japanese markings. The hinomarus were just painted over the french roundels and the original markings were left intact - even the red and yellow vichy-stripes on the engine cover! Additionally, those Indochina-Potez had red tails. Now i just have to wait for the Potez promised by Azur ;D

(http://imghost.webspell.eu/image.php?id=b6b678eacfcc63983c0ac490d2084ce7)

P.S. I'm still looking for pictures of soviet aircraft from the manchurian campaign!

Hi Christian, :)
thank you for posting these beautiful images. I like Japanese planes very much and I have a lot of kits, forthemost still to build.
Those images could turn into an original model, in some very far future.
The ki-44 is particularly interesting. Are there clear ideas on how it was painted?
Massimo

Hi Dave, about photos of LaGG-3: I don't know for sure. Probably the photos are of some Finnish goverment archive, probably they have the negative, but I don't know if their copyright has expired.
Massimo

Thanks, well If it has been over 50 years since they were taken I think they are probably in the public domain (according to wikipedia)

Massimo,

as far as i know, there is no additional information about this picture. It was sold on ebay some time ago, Jim posted it, i rightclick-saved it. The sentai emblem is probably white, but the quality of the image is so bad, that any speculation regarding the colors (which go further than "dark" and "light") would be futile.
More so, even the base color could just be guessed, as there are so few pictures of Ki-44s painted in a single color that i'd guess they left the factory always in NMF and were camouflaged in the field with more or less care. Even the Ki-44s that do wear a solid color show quite heavy chipping (real chipping, not left out or repaired areas!), which indicates a field-applied camouflage without a base coat. The grey-green Aomidori-Iro (~FS 34036, but it faded to some kind of blue-gray very soon) was a color that seemed to have been in widespread use on japanese fighters in the chinese theater. But that's just one possibility, it could also be lilac.. ;)
However, it seems that the hinomarus on the Ki-44 in our picture were not painted over before the application of the chinese roundels, because if the new owners had done so, they most likely would have overpainted the chipped area next to the hinomaru, too. It is also noticable that the strange fashion of applying the new roundel so out of place was repeated on the wing uppersurfaces (You can see the shine of the glossy hinomaru red next to the chinese roundel; at least in my opinion). Maybe the Shoki wasn't flyable at all (one of the prop blades is bent) and the Chinese marked them just for propagandistic purposes, for fun, painter training, out of boredom or anything else.
Finally, there is some sort of canvas hanging over the rudder, it is not paint chipping.

P.S. I just figured out that the plane on the picture we're talking about isn't a Ki-44, it's a Ki-84! In this case we have a Ki-84 factory finished in Aomidori-Iro or Ohryoku 7 ("late war brown"). So much for expert talk! ;D

P.P.S. While looking for Ki-44s in a single colour i found a few more pictures for you, enjoy:

(http://imghost.webspell.eu/image.php?id=d8d7ef98560c042fa401d79ef40a1adb)
(http://imghost.webspell.eu/image.php?id=debfbfd9f92c77c0236044cfd0f7e63e)
(http://imghost.webspell.eu/image.php?id=40c4235cf60059d8b473a09619fc5275)

Note to myself: First look a the thing, then speculate about it!

Hi Christian, :)
thank you for posting these beautiful images. It looks that the paint was removed by some sort of tool from the surface of this Ki-44.
Ki-84... I suspected this, but didn't dare to suggest... the fuselage is extremely similar, in perspective.
Did the planes captured by Chinese communists wore the same markings of the nationalists? Maybe they loved to see some red...
Massimo

Hi Massimo,

yes, after a while they indeed remembered that red was more appropriate for a "red" air force, but if they used old hinomarus to do so, hmm...??
(Look here: http://www.geocities.com/cwlam2000hk/part2.htm)

I also think you are right with your assumption of removed paint. Maybe they used sand paper or some sort thinner / acetone / nitro. Like a model kit after the first messed-up paint attempt...

And next time i mix-up airplanes - please interfere ;)

Hi Christian, :)
nice page. I didn't suspect that Chinese communists utilized a so wide range of markings in 1945-49 (one for each plane?). After 1949, their markings are a bit monotonous.
Massimo

the topic of schemes for VVS aircraft used in Manchuria just came up on Britmodeller,
http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234999272-looking-for-references-russia-verses-japan-at-end-of-ww2/

Which led me to finding this thread, but no photos or links to VVS units

So, thought this would be worth a bump,  in case anyone has links to Russian sites on this?