Sovietwarplanes

Hello all,
 
I'm a French plastic modeler and I would like to build the Vicente Beltran (Spanish Republican pilot) La-5. I found an illustration in the Osprey of the Aces Nr 56 but I would like to know what could you tell me about this aircraft ?
So, another question, what kind of P-39 is here to represent a Gulaev aircraft: http://sovietwarplanes.com/board/index.php?topic=269.0
Is it a P-39N or a P-39Q with pods removed (like Rechkalov aircraft ?) ? This building is in my future projects too.
 
Thank you in advance, best regards
 
St?phane

http://wp.scn.ru/ru/ww2/f/336/1/1/5

Hi,

Thank you for the link... This illustration is the same as the Osprey Nr56.

Cheers
Steph40

Hello,

I'm back after a long period spent for my son, my job and modeling kits too...
I continue my old post to ask a question about camo scheme of Vincente Beltran La-5 "white 84"... What is the most probable colors for the camo scheme: AMT4, AMT6 and AMT7 or a green with dark green and light blue ?
Please, I need your advice.

TIA, best regards
Steph

Hi Steph,

VVS colors research shos that there is no green-dark green camo.
AMT-4 (green), AMT-6 (black) and AMT-7 (light blue) is correct.
See : http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/colors/1941-43/1941-43.html

and : http://www.master194.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=54267&hilit=vvs&start=50
The table on page 3 of that subject.



Jean
PS: je parle fran?ais alors tu peux m'envoyer un message perso si n?cessaire.

Hi Steph,
well this decoration is very original, I never see it before!
Is there any pics of the plane?
What did you think about doing the decals?
take a look at the web site to see the work Massimo done about the La-5; go inside each part, you will find a plenty of informations:
http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/la5/la5.html#cowling (http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/la5/la5.html#cowling)

I imagine that your plane was paint in AMT4/AMT6 (green black)
All the La-5 I seen were painted like that, exepting the white painted...
It had to be like this one of the 88 guard fighter regiment, I also imagine the lightning could be white instead of yellow

(http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/la5/chkalov/chkalov84pr.jpg)

French modeler? in which forum do you post ? with which nickname?

Xan

ps:Tout comme Apex, je parle  fran?ais tu peux me contacter par MP.
    

Hi Steph,

Use of AMT-4 and 6 was ordered almost at the time of Barbarossa and since La-5 enty in service was somewhere in 1942
they were painted per government's instructions; AMT-4, 6 and 7.

State of the art research shows that AII green and Dark Green did not exists.
There was a AII Green called AII Zashch. (zashchitnyi) that was a gloss camouflage green.
There was also AII (svetlo goluboi)  that was a gloss light blue for undersides.
Both were in use between 1937-1941.

Esp?rant que ?a aide.

Jean

A small correction:  AII Light Blue was in use 1940-1941.
It was used for undersides of planes painted according to May 1940 directive (solid "Protective" green top) and for planes painted according to 1941 camouflage directive (AMT-4, AMT-6 top).
Cheers,
KL

hi every body,
Steph told me by PM he was not sure the inscription of the beltran La-5 was really wroten in spanish.
I find quite strange the inscription :
"Viva la revolution socialista en S.S.S.R."
logicaly, it had to be:
"Viva la revolucion socialista en U.R.S.S."

Xan

Hello,

Thank you both for your answer. The color is definitively AMT4-6-7.
Here are the 2 options regarding this aircraft (pictures found on the web, I think the first is from a Polish book (Ajaks), the second one from Osprey book).
Text in Russian...?
(http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/9795/img0801x.jpg)

or text in Spanish...?
(http://img847.imageshack.us/img847/591/img0800p.jpg)
But like Xan said, why isn't written URSS (Uni?n de Rep?blicas Socialistas Sovi?ticas in Spanish) ?

TIA, regards
St?ph

Hi,
according to Orlov, the AII light blue was utilized even after 1941 in parallel with AMT-7.
Regards
Massimo

Text about Spanish pilots in VVS was published in Aviatsiya i vremya magazine No 2002-03

http://lib.rus.ec/b/206139/read

Profiles that appeared there are unreliable. :-[  Artist S. Vahrushev is now well known for his illustrations for the new book about Korean war Mig-15s (again mostly made up).

(http://lib.rus.ec/i/39/206139/pic_62.jpg)

IMHO, Beltran's La-5 is not well documented and all profiles are result of artis's guesswork.

KL   

Thanks you Konstantin for this information.
So we will not know much more about this plane...
Do you know if there is other exemple of spanish republican pilot's planes in USSR who wore inscription in spanish ?

Xan

Thank you all for your answers, your help and your precisions...
Xan, finally, my La-5 will be like you want: AMT4/6/7, text in Spanish (apart SSSR)... I think it will be my next build, I'm gonig to finish my W. Oesau Bf 109F-2 first...

Still thank you all. Best regards
Steph

Hi Steph

not the same, but on Aeromaster sheet 48-086  there  is a scheme for  Francisco Mereno, showing an inscription in Russian. 
I know Aeromaster are know as 'errormaster', but in the articles below it worth noting that the Spanish Pilots were not 'in favour' before the war, so Russian may be more likely. 

 http://www.squadron.com/ProfileDetails.asp?item=AN48086

(http://www.squadron.com/images/profiles/AeroMaster/jpg48/AN48086a.jpg)

build here
http://modelingmadness.com/reviews/allies/cleaver/ussr/tmcla5.htm

some articles http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=es&u=http://spanish.ruvr.ru/2007/08/09/1100147.html&ei=eQnkTYToBMmxhQedu_HpBw&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CCcQ7gEwAQ&prev=/search%3Fq%3DFrancisco%2BMero%25C3%25B1o.%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26hs%3DK5p%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-GB:official%26prmd%3Divns


http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=es&u=http://estacionmir.com/Historia/eventos/Merono_Es.html&ei=8QzkTY2qKca2hAfA_eDqBw&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=5&sqi=2&ved=0CDsQ7gEwBA&prev=/search%3Fq%3DFrancisco%2BMero%25C3%25B1o%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26hs%3DfJq%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-GB:official%26biw%3D972%26bih%3D637%26prmd%3Divns

may give you some more leads on Spanish VVS pilots.

HTH
T

Hello Troy,

I know and I have this decal sheet. The first aircraft is a La-5 from 960IAP-125IAD early in 1943. This aircraft is often showed as the one flown by Francisco Merono Pellicer. From my knowledge, there is no evidence that she was is own but Pellicer was in the unit when this photo has been taken...
The inscription in Russian is "Squadron named for Hero of the Soviet Union Alexander Chekalin".
This aircraft is in my future projects too.
I built a model of a Spanish Ace: the I-15 "Chato" flown by Juan Lario Sanchez from 2a Escuadrilla de Caza early in 1938 (1/48 from Special Hobby).
(http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/8145/polikarpovi15chato2ecel.jpg)

Thank you for your help. It's very appreciable to feel himself helped, I love this "little" World of Modellers...
regards
Steph

Really good photo of a really good model.
Regards
Massimo

waoh! great model!
colours are as I imagine, what did you use ?
Pascal and I we have to do it to...
it is not very easy to mount isn't it?
the jiont of the fuselage and the upper wing scare me!
bravo, vraiment!
Xan

Yes, it's a very beautiful model ! I like it. As you can see Xan, it is possible to make it ! ;D

Hello,
 this pics was in anpaper about Luis Lavin spanish pilot in the VVS during the GPW:

(http://i610.photobucket.com/albums/tt189/JoseCeuta/La595LuisLavin0.jpg)

there is nothing written behind, and in a spanish forum, they wonder if this pic represent his plane or it's a generic La-5 pic...

Xan

Hello,

Thank you very much for your nice comments... If Massimo permits it, I'll post others photos on "general modeling".
Xan, I know this early model La-5FN, I don't know if she was flown by Luis Lavin but I built this model (1/48 Zvezda kit) to describe the early La-5FN "white 95" flown by Kirill A. Evstigneev in 240 IAP, 302 IAD  from Autumn 1943 to Spring 1944...
(http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/7779/img0215bp.jpg)

http://aces.safarikovi.org/biography/sssr/sssr/jevstignejev.html
http://www.airwar.ru/history/aces/ace2ww/pilots/evstign.html

Still thank you for your researches Xan, amicalement
St?ph

Hi Steph,
what a pity, it's not the lavin plane...
hey nice models , congratulaitons. What paint did you use ?
I've got this model, was it a pleasure to mount ?
Xan

Hello Xan,

I don't remember very well the colors I used to paint this model... I think the base was Humbrol 116, 117 and 80 for uppersurfaces and Humbrol 65 and 89 for undersurfaces.


Regarding the La-5FN, The AMT-7 is Humbrol 65 and Humbrol 89. The AMT-11 is "AMT-7" with 40% black and AMT-12 is "AMT-7" with 70% black.
Lots of problems for the assembling of the wings with the fuselage !!! Angry, I broke the model to begin another one... :-[ Finally, I changed the step of building: I glued all the cockpit in the fuselage, closed the fuselage and glued all on the wings, no problem...

Thanks for your comment, best regards
St?ph

And still you were afraind to make it darker ;)
Nice job, indeed.
That's what I experienced and ultimately gave up on the kit (didn't throw it out though).
It's amazing that all reviews I read are praising the kit so highly for accuracy AND construction!
I think they're being hipocritical. Kit is over-engineered, not good in my book.
Salut,
Mario

Hi Steph,

Tr?s beau r?sultat.
Very nice result.

Comme Mario j'ai rencontr? plusieurs probl?mes d'ajustements.
Like Mario I had lot of problems.

Voici une photo du mien r?alis? il y 3 ans.
Here's mine done 3 years ago.

(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e136/Apex1701/La-5fn/dscf1786.jpg)

Jean

when you were still EP's follower?... :D :) ;) ;D :P
Very nice! Should be Popkov's?
Mario

Yes and no.
At that time I was beginning to see that something was wrong with these colors.
For the AMT-12 I used WEM's mixed with red as suggested on EP's VVS forum by a guy named Airacobra (Ilya Grinberg?).
It did indeed remove a bit of the green from this paint.

And of course it's Popkov's. What a great pilot!!

Jean

Hi all,
really beautiful models, and well photographed. Thank you for sharing these images.
New photos of models will be welcome, of course.
Please, if you post photos of models or discussions, try to include only one type of plane, because I'm reordering the posts according to this criteria.
Regards
Massimo