Sovietwarplanes

Great Patriotic War Aviation => Lavochkins => Topic started by: Markino on January 08, 2010, 02:13:48 AM



Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga..Alleluia!!.. (pag. 24)
Post by: Markino on January 08, 2010, 02:13:48 AM
Hello guys,
I hope to do the right thing posting here my presentation. I apoligise also for my bad English.
Many thanks to Massimo for his approvation (and JP also I think).
Some of you already knew me, maybe you remember my LaGG-3 questions about control column and white number 44...
I am glad to meet you once again!

Best Regards

Marco


Title: Re: Markino's presentation message
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on January 08, 2010, 12:14:03 PM
Benvenuto Marco!
By the way, what about your LaGG?
Massimo


Title: Re: Markino's presentation message
Post by: Markino on January 08, 2010, 07:25:01 PM
Hi Massimo,
thanks for your wellcome to me. About my LaGG-3, Vector made, I started with a dry build (sorry, I do not know the correct way to translate "montaggio a secco"  :-[) to take some main measures about the kit.
It results underscaled: wingspan 2 mm shortest and lenght about 4 mm shortest  :o :o. Then I compared the kit main parts with Aviakollectzia monography draws, corrected for 1/48 scale. The main problem is the fuselage, already short and undersized also  :o. The corrections will be quite hard.
If you wish I taked some photos about troubles and I could post them. Maybe I could post the photos in the dedicated place.

Ciao!

Marco


Title: Re: Markino's presentation message
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on January 08, 2010, 09:11:38 PM
Hi Marco,
so, the Vector kit has some dimensional problems?  Are them visible by eye, or only when compared to drawings and measures?
I fear that the correction will be very hard. If the shape is acceptable at a forst sight, I suggest to avoid to risk a so expensive kit.
Massimo


Title: Re: Markino's presentation message
Post by: Markino on January 08, 2010, 11:39:52 PM
Hi Massimo,
if you are agree we could move this discussion in "General modeling" or "Model kits" wich is more appropriate.
Is possible to move the entire discussion? Maybe other members could be interested to discuss about.

Ciao.

Marco


Title: Re: Markino's presentation message
Post by: JP on January 09, 2010, 02:36:07 AM
Moved.   ;)


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48
Post by: Markino on January 09, 2010, 10:13:19 PM
Hello Guys,
These are some pics about my troubles with Vector's LaGG-3. What you can see the main problem is the shortest fuselages. The two fusolages are diferent among each also  :o. Minor problems with main wing. I think the corrections will be very hard for fuselages, minus for main wing. I appreciate your suggestions about this troubles.
Regards.

Marco



(http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/5991/19726137.jpg)

(http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/29/118wn.jpg)

(http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/685/120hq.jpg)

(http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/4923/119pv.jpg)

(http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/7769/121ly.jpg)

(http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/5026/122st.jpg)


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48
Post by: Markino on January 09, 2010, 10:17:34 PM
Hello guys!
This some pics about comparation between kit fuselages and Aviakollectzia's drawings. Apart from main wing, where corrections will be quite easy, corrections on fuselages will be more difficult but not impossibles (....I hope).
Please, tell me what do you think about and yours suggestions.
Ok, now it works well  ;D ;D.
Regards.

Marco

(http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/3635/64969047.jpg)

(http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/3583/118nj.jpg)

(http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/812/120fx.jpg)

(http://img709.imageshack.us/img709/9861/119f.jpg)

(http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/8458/121d.jpg)

(http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/5237/122qq.jpg)



Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48
Post by: marluc on January 10, 2010, 02:52:06 PM
Hello Marco:

Welcome to the forum.Nice project,the Lagg-3 is one of my favourite soviet planes.If you want to modify the lenght of the fuselage,you?ll must be very careful because,sometimes,the resin tends to be brittle.It looks like you have a good book as a reference.
It?s great to see a new "work in progress" around here,thanks for sharing it with us.Greetings.

Martin


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48
Post by: Markino on January 10, 2010, 09:47:09 PM
Hi Martin,
I think the main problems is no the brittle resin, but where to cut to modify the fuselages. Is quite sure that some nice kit details will be lost by corrections  :'(. I will must to study  well the corrections path.
Regards.

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48
Post by: marluc on January 11, 2010, 03:28:30 AM
I think the main problems is no the brittle resin, but where to cut to modify the fuselages. Is quite sure that some nice kit details will be lost by corrections 
Yes,you?re right,you can?t cut the nose without losing the surface detail,at the same time you should avoid cutting the wing roots.It?s really a hard work to extend the fuselage,keep us posted.Greetings Marco.

Martin


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on January 11, 2010, 08:32:13 AM
Hi Marco,
in my idea, the worst defect of the model is not his lack of length, that is unvisible without the comparison to drawings that can be done only when the model is disassembled; the worst, and more visible, defect is that the canopy is too low in the fuselage, and the step between the nose and the rear back is too scarce. This is visible on photos of the complete model too, and probably derives from a defect of Voronin drawings.
I suggest to study if it is possible to make the nose lower with a file, and then fit the canopy all the same (maybe completing the lower frame with a strip of painted paper to close a gap).

Massimo


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48
Post by: Greg C. on January 15, 2010, 02:57:54 AM
Hi Markino,
Just my opinion, but I would not worry much about the dimensions in this case.  Drawings vary widely, and it's very difficult to be certain of the accuracy of a particular set of drawings unless you can verify them against the real airplane.


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48
Post by: Markino on January 23, 2010, 07:41:52 PM
Hi Greg,
thanks for your reply. You have right, but the kit is dimensionally unaccurate and my intend is to correct these troubles. I agree with you when you say that set of drawings can vary videly, but I have not possibilty to measure the real plane  :(, so I can only try to determine wich set of drawings are more correct than other and use these to make corrections.
Since now I consider Aviakollectzia's drawings better than other, but is only my personal point of view of course.
I will appreciate if you or somebody could suggest me other set of drawings, better than Aviakollectzia's drawings, for cheking.
I think however that this system could allow me to reduce the kit's defects and, at the same time, have a good dimensional precision. Surely better than kit offered.

Regards  :) :).

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on January 23, 2010, 08:22:15 PM
Hi,
some drawings of LaGG-3 corrected from Voronin's drawings by a Russian researcher will be uploaded soon on the LaGG-3 page. I don't know if they are better or worse than those of Aviacollectia, I suppose better.
Massimo


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48
Post by: Markino on January 24, 2010, 04:35:57 PM
Hi Massimo,
this is a very interesting news  :). In this case I will wait for the drawings and if you are agree I could compare the LaGG-3 page drawings with Aviakollectzia's drawings. How many time you think for drawings availability on LaGG-3 page?

Regards.

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on January 24, 2010, 10:09:52 PM
Very few time.
The file is nearly ready to upload, I'm just waiting for AR writes to me the full name of Pavel, the author, to credit the work.
Massimo


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48
Post by: Markino on February 07, 2010, 10:56:54 PM
Hello guys,
somebody could give me the total span of the tail orizontal stabilizer? Many thanks in advance  :).
Meanwhile the drawings comparisons are go on....a bit slowly  :( :(.
Regards.

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (new upgrade)
Post by: Markino on April 22, 2010, 10:36:41 AM
Hi guys,
Finally I succeeded to compare the two drawings set, those of Aviacolleczia and those of mig3sovietwarplanes. Here are some pictures about comparison (red for Aviacolleczia?s drawings and black for mig3sovietwarplanes?s drawings).

(http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/716/fusolieredxcopia.jpg)

(http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/9825/fusolieresxcopia.jpg)

(http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/276/vistasopracopia.jpg)

(http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/3235/vistasottocopia.jpg)

As you can see there are some noticeable differences, mainly in the side views comparison. For this aim, I get as reference the rear fuselage and I tried to arrange they well I was able to. Is odd as Aviacolleczia?s fuselages seem to curve upwards with respect to mig3sovietwarplanes?s drawings, but I don?t know why.
Is my opinion that mig3sovietwarplanes?s drawings are more correct in comparison with several other I saw, and trying to compare them with LaGG-3 wartime photos. It could be interesting to compare fuselages side drawings with LaGG-3 side views photos; if somebody has some good photos about, I could try to do that.
So I decided to assume mig3swps drawings as primary reference.

As consequence, I decided to modify the kit?s fuselages as shown in photos below:

(http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/9627/123mg.jpg)

(http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/2433/124pv.jpg)

(http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/7306/126gn.jpg)

For now?that?s all Folks! Please let me know what do you think about.

Regards.

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (Update on pag. 2)
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on April 22, 2010, 11:26:58 AM
Hi Marco,
it's a risky work, also because of the uncertainty of drawings. AR wrote that Pavel, the author of the correction, is sure about the wooden part of fuselage and wing because he has drawings with measures; he's less sure about the nose. The Finnish gave a length, but it is not clear if referred to LG-1 or LG-3, that wre of different versions with different weapons protruding through the spinner.
However, the model of Vector is clearly wrong, at a first glance, and a correction could be good.
I don't suggest to cut the fuselage through the cockpit and wingroots, this could turn in a terrible damage of details and an impossibility to align well the wingroot. I would suggest to cut horizontally  behind the small rear window, and join this to the vertical cut.  The vertical cut itself could be shifted  or rotated to join to the opening for the wing rear edge.
Or maybe, to make only a cut from the rear edge of wing recess to the lower edge of the rear window. Of course, you'll have to add plastic to all the side of the canopy recess.
Massimo


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (Update on pag. 2)
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on April 23, 2010, 07:32:07 AM
I would add that one has to think to the windshield. Will it fit after this modification? The rear part should be aligned to the upper profile of the rear fuselage, so it should appear a gap after the modification.
Massimo


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (Update on pag. 2)
Post by: Markino on April 26, 2010, 10:27:43 AM
Hi Massimo,
thanks for your reply. By your suggestion I have been think to another way for modifications. I show you a couple of pictures to better explane it:

(http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/8681/124copia.jpg)

(http://img532.imageshack.us/img532/8398/125copia.jpg)

About the windshield, after fuselages modifications I think to modify or, most probable, completely rebuild it  >:(. Difficult but not impossible  ;) ;).

Tanks in advance for your next suggestions  :)!!

Ciao!

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (Update on pag. 2)
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on April 26, 2010, 10:34:13 PM
Hi Marco,
from those drawings, I can't exactly see how the wingroot was on the drawings, in comparison to the fuselage of the kit. I suppose that the distance between the spinner and wingroot is the same on both.

A vertical cut in the rear fuselage is very difficult to  mask. Adding 3,5 mm  can create a step in the profile and sides of the fuselage. Such a step is nearly impossible to mask: you would have to file or fill all the rear fuselage to make the profile straight again. Cuts should be made where the fuselage thickness is costant (no good place on LaGG-3) or where there is a curved part (as the ventral cooler), so you can fill and file only a brief part to bend the profile. Such difficulty is not clearly visible when one compares profiles, but if it generates a visible defect on the mode, this is much worse than an unvisible one.

Besides, the profile of the canopy recess has to be moved upwards by adding plastic; so, adding 1 or 2 mm has the same difficulty. I would suggest to glue thick pieces of clear plastic into the recesses of rear windows (3.5 mm longer on the front), fill and file them, then paint the filled part. They have not important reasons to be thin: they were closed by wood panels just inside.

Besides, you have to check with photos the shape of rear windows that are clearly different between the model and the drawings.
At the end, I suggest to save the internal details by cutting obliquely from the wingroot end recess to the window recess, then to rebuilt the border of the canopy.

As an alternative: did you check the ICM kit? It's unexpensive and perhaps has less problems of shape.

Massimo


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (Update on pag. 2)
Post by: Markino on April 28, 2010, 09:54:32 AM
Hi Massimo,
thanks for your reply. Well:

In the draw, from the fuselafe spinner plate to the wingroot (air intake) there are 26 mm. On the kit, from the same reference to the same point there are 28 mm. I think however that adding 2 mm about on the wingroot air intake and reshaping it (both side  ;)) the trouble should be correct.

I do not think that vertical cut will be so difficult to do well. After add 3,5 mm the profile will be shaped (it result at moment in a conical shape); then the front kit part will be connected, glued and re-shaped.
It is a bit long and precision job, but I think it is possible.

The windshield and his place will be completely rebuild. The place itself will be distort after "cut & paste" job.

About rear windows kit, I think they are not so different from the draw. I think they need a reshaped job. The internal details are not more in place. I sanded completely the internal fuselages and then I replace them by Vector resin set for LaGG-3 1/4 series, more detailed then kit's internal details.

ICM kit? No thanks! I spend quite a few money for Vector's kit and I do not want to set aside it. I want try to correct it however; now it is a kind of challenge.

Let's will wait and see what happens!

Ciao!!

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (Update on pag. 2)
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on April 28, 2010, 11:03:19 AM
Hi Marco,
Quote
In the draw, from the fuselafe spinner plate to the wingroot (air intake) there are 26 mm. On the kit, from the same reference to the same point there are 28 mm. I think however that adding 2 mm about on the wingroot air intake and reshaping it (both side  ) the trouble should be correct.

Are the wingroot intakes  really too short, if seen from above? Else, adding this length will alter the space between them and the wing leading edge.

Massimo


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (Update on pag. 2)
Post by: marluc on April 28, 2010, 02:37:25 PM
Marco,with all the surgery you have to do on this kit to get it right,it?s really a challenge.Keep going,I?ll be waiting for your progress on this Lagg-3.Greetings.

Martin


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (Update on pag. 2)
Post by: Markino on April 29, 2010, 10:01:49 AM
Hi guys,
 @ Massimo: yes, it is really so short, but I ceck well it when I will work on. For the moment I will to correct the fuselages "only".... :'(.

@Marluc: Hi Martin,
yes, the challenge is start! Next time I show you the results.
....or the trashcan with the Vector's kit inside >:( >:(.

Ciao!!

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (Update on pag. 2)
Post by: Markino on July 06, 2010, 10:11:40 AM
Hi guys, a little update on my LaGG-3. Here I show the first cut and paste, the jig for correct alignement and paste and the second cut. Good vision  :).

Comments and suggestions always well accepts  :)  :)

(http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/9529/129ys.jpg)

(http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/2417/130qv.jpg)

(http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/6183/131i.jpg)

(http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/5179/132bo.jpg)

(http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/1176/133xln.jpg)

(http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/6140/134mh.jpg)

(http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/9888/135ms.jpg)

(http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/3066/136pr.jpg)

(http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/9986/137jb.jpg)

(http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/2126/138kd.jpg)

(http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/5747/139xu.jpg)

(http://img808.imageshack.us/img808/8981/140lb.jpg)

(http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/2217/141if.jpg)

(http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/2327/142r.jpg)

Ciao!!

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (Update on pag. 2)
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on July 06, 2010, 07:37:38 PM
Ciao Marco,
it looks a clean work till now. But I fear that you'll have to use putty on the sides of the cooler outet to fit the fuselages. Not easy.
Massimo


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (Update on pag. 2)
Post by: Markino on July 07, 2010, 11:20:39 AM
Hi Massimo,
thanks for your reply. Yes, surely the cooler outlet will be reshaped and rebuild. I will check well the wing roots also, in the karman fairing area.
Next time I will post the cut & paste corrections result.

Ciao!!

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (Update on pag. 2)
Post by: Markino on July 21, 2010, 10:22:10 AM
Hi guys,
I glued the two parts of left fuselage and correct the  tail leading edge shape. I think the fuselage is now very similar to the draw.

(http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/4629/143wtn.jpg)

The comparison with right fuselage show well the differences.

(http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/5807/144w.jpg)

(http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/2613/147sm.jpg)

Maybe the cockpit edge will be slight problematic but I hope to find a way to correct it.

(http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/6803/145fe.jpg)

(http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/6733/146xo.jpg)

Comments and suggestions always well accept!

Well, now is time for holydays. I think we meet again after them, hoping with both fuselages correct  ;) ;).

Stay tuned and Happy Holydays!!!

Ciao!!!

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (Update on pag. 3)
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on July 21, 2010, 08:56:14 PM
Hi Marco, the fuselage is by far more resemblant than before, this is sure. I hope that the problems of fitting and filling will be resolved in some way.
Massimo


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (Update on pag. 3)
Post by: Markino on July 26, 2010, 12:02:56 PM
Hi Massimo,
yes, for the cockpit edge I think to fit and fill with milliput inside and outside to reshape the profile. I will show the results next time.

Ciao!

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (Update on pag. 3)
Post by: Markino on March 21, 2011, 10:23:06 AM
Hello guys!
After a problematic and troubled patch, with less desire (at present), I take again to build with joy and enthusiasm to set hands up on the poor Vector kit.

The fuselage has been corrected in dimensions and shape, referring to mig3sovietwarplanes drawings. With drawings and images collected on the web and, mainly, on scalemodels.ru, I drew the internal frame scheme that I will rebuild with Evergreen strips.

(http://img828.imageshack.us/img828/2462/67fusolieracorrettavist.jpg)

(http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/9561/68fusolieracorrettaepro.jpg)

(http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/3720/69fusolieracorrettavist.jpg)

(http://img543.imageshack.us/img543/2458/70fusolieracorrettavist.jpg)

(http://img851.imageshack.us/img851/6203/71fusoliereinternocontr.jpg)

The cockpit profile has been recreated  with milliput and a simple wooden/sandpaper tool.

(http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/5674/72fusolieraeattrezzoper.jpg)

(http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/2715/73attrezzoperprofilococ.jpg)
 
The fuselage and some reference drawings:

(http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/8405/74fusolieraedisegniperi.jpg)

(http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/6484/75fusolieraestrutturain.jpg)

The main wing has been corrected also. I cutted it in half and lengthen with plasticard. Inside the central part I set a pair of strong strips to set the corrected 5? dihedral:

(http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/3434/76alacorrettainlunghezz.jpg)

(http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/7859/77alacorrettainlunghezz.jpg)

The wheel bay, rounded shape, has been removed and by Autocad and Voronin?s drawings, I build a ?dima? (I do not know the correct translation for this word) with a cam shape, most corrected as shown on Voronin?s drawings. I will rebuild the wheel bay by thermoforming machine and the ?dima?:

(http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/7541/78alaedisegniinscalaper.jpg)

(http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/9136/79dimapertermoformatura.jpg)

(http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/4586/80dimapercorrezionesedi.jpg)

The main wing and the wheel bay ?dima?:

(http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/3635/81dimapercorrezioneala.jpg)

(http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/9697/82dimapercorrezioneala.jpg)

(http://img840.imageshack.us/img840/9977/83dimaealainserita.jpg)

(http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/1541/84dimaealainserita.jpg)

Coming soon, as write below, I will rebuild the internal frame; I will made two ?dime? to thermoforming the internal and external part of the radiator; ailerons and their place. About that I  have some doubts still now, because on various sources the measure are different.

I apologise for my English

Comments and suggest always well accepted.

Stay tuned!

Marco





Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (Update on pag. 3)
Post by: learstang on March 21, 2011, 04:48:13 PM
Brilliant work, Marco!  Glad to see you back on this kit.  Keep the pictures coming.

Regards,

Jason


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (Update on pag. 3)
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on March 21, 2011, 05:47:40 PM
Hi Marco,
what an impressive work! Not a good publicity for this kit.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (Update on pag. 3)
Post by: Markino on March 23, 2011, 12:50:31 PM
Hi Jason and Massimo,
thanks for your comments. Yes Massimo is not a good publicity for this kit but it is very poor. I think is the old South Front kit, just improved in internal details but not corrected in shapes and dimensions. At moment he worked on it he could correct and improve the entire kit  >:(!!

Ciao!

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (Update on pag. 3)
Post by: JP on March 23, 2011, 03:06:36 PM
Hi Marco,
what an impressive work! Not a good publicity for this kit.
Regards
Massimo

No kidding.  This is just short of a complete scratch build.  Not exactly what the average modeler would be willing to take on.  Can't wait to see this done!


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (Update on pag. 3)
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on March 23, 2011, 05:28:39 PM
Hi Marco and JP,
if I remember well, the release of South Front was after that of  Vector. Perhaps they were obtained from the same drawings, those of Voronin.
Personally, I think that the price of a resin kit can be justified only in absence of serious alternatives. I don't think that Vector will make a new mould, when the ICM costs 14 Euros.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (Update on pag. 3)
Post by: John Thompson on March 23, 2011, 10:54:33 PM
Hi Marco and JP,
if I remember well, the release of South Front was after that of  Vector. Perhaps they were obtained from the same drawings, those of Voronin.
Personally, I think that the price of a resin kit can be justified only in absence of serious alternatives. I don't think that Vector will make a new mould, when the ICM costs 14 Euros.
Regards
Massimo

Still to appear is the resin 1/48 LaGG-3 from Fusion, in France.

John


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (Update on pag. 3)
Post by: Markino on March 24, 2011, 12:16:03 PM
Hi JP, Massimo and John,
I think with the new ICM kit there are less market for resin kit. It?s shame that ICM kit was released after the Vector?s one. I should have buied it !  >:( >:( Plastic is more workable then resin!!! ;) ;)
I am curious to see the new Fusion kit. I saw some images several months a go and It was very impressive....

Ciao!

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (Help for wing damaged)
Post by: Markino on April 05, 2011, 09:30:36 AM
Hello guys,
Unfortunately, in the past week I seriously and in irreparable way damaged the LaGG-3 main wing  :( :(. I thought to use the La-5FN Vector wing, and in this case I wish to know if this wing was similar in plan and shape to LaGG-3 wing, with the exception of less importance details, as fairings, etc.

What do you think about and what your suggestions with regard to?
Many thanks for your help.

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (Help for wing damaged)
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on April 05, 2011, 12:45:36 PM
Hi Merco,
for what I know, they should be identical except for minor details as wingroot intakes and eventually slats. But your model looks to become a bit expensive. Did you consider any use for a diorama of a shot down plane?
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (Help for wing damaged)
Post by: Walker on April 05, 2011, 12:52:35 PM
Wing La 5FN differs lack air intakes at the root of the wing. In addition to the wing of La 5FN is advocating the perimeter of the wing aileron trims on both sides. At LaGG-3 aileron trim only on the left side, does not go beyond the contour of the aileron. And the location is different hatches.


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (Help for wing damaged)
Post by: Markino on April 05, 2011, 03:34:04 PM
Hi guys, many thanks for your kindly reply.

@Massimo: yes, unfortunately the kit becoming a bit expansive  >:( :'(, but I will not want to realize a diorama or a shot down plane, just a good model....I hope  ??? ???....

@Walker: thanks for your reply. In the next days I will to study my main reference drawings to recognize the main difference among LaGG-3 and La-5FN wings.

@Massimo and Walker: do you could suggest my some good reference drawings for La-5FN? At the moment I use the Voronin's drawings.
For the LaGG I use the mig3family drawings :).

Ciao!!

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (Help for wing damaged)
Post by: Walker on April 05, 2011, 05:08:21 PM
The best drawings Lagg-3 Paul Sadovnikov. Here they are: http://narod.ru/disk/9375809001/Sadovnikov_P.zip.html
The archive also drawing La 5FN Michael Bradach (MBI).


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (Help for wing damaged)
Post by: Troy Smith on April 06, 2011, 06:29:39 AM
Hi guys, many thanks for your kindly reply.

@Massimo: yes, unfortunately the kit becoming a bit expansive  >:( :'(, but I will not want to realize a diorama or a shot down plane, just a good model....I hope  ??? ???....

@Walker: thanks for your reply. In the next days I will to study my main reference drawings to recognize the main difference among LaGG-3 and La-5FN wings.

@Massimo and Walker: do you could suggest my some good reference drawings for La-5FN? At the moment I use the Voronin's drawings.
For the LaGG I use the mig3family drawings :).

Ciao!!

Marco

Hi Marco

Why use the Vector La5 wing?  Seems an expensive source of parts.

have you got an ICM LaGG3?  Just wondering how that compares to the plans.  If the resin wing is now damaged, would it not be easier and cheaper to get a ICM LaGG3 and use those wings?   (You could also compare the kits.)

Another cheap option would possibly be the old Hobbycraft La5FN, I know it's not very accurate, but maybe the wing might be useable  and it can probably be got cheap.  Maybe someone here has one they will never build.
Or a South Front kit as donor kit?

All are plastic so they would be easier to work than resin.   

Or have I misunderstood something about what parts you want to use?

Hope this helps
T


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (New update!)
Post by: Markino on April 06, 2011, 10:03:19 AM
Hi guys, thanks for your reply!

@Walker: thanks for your suggestion but unfortunately link doesn't work well. Could you give me another or try to post again the link?

Quote
Hi Marco

Why use the Vector La5 wing?  Seems an expensive source of parts.

have you got an ICM LaGG3?  Just wondering how that compares to the plans.  If the resin wing is now damaged, would it not be easier and cheaper to get a ICM LaGG3 and use those wings?   (You could also compare the kits.)

Another cheap option would possibly be the old Hobbycraft La5FN, I know it's not very accurate, but maybe the wing might be useable  and it can probably be got cheap.  Maybe someone here has one they will never build.
Or a South Front kit as donor kit?

All are plastic so they would be easier to work than resin.  

Or have I misunderstood something about what parts you want to use?

Hope this helps
T

Hi Troy,
You have not misanderstood,
I use the Vector La-5FN wing because I have the La-5FN Zvezda also and probabily I will never build the Vector one. Concerning the Zvezda kit I suggest to visit this link. There is a very nice building post: http://scalemodels.ru/modules/forum/viewtopic.php?t=21930&postdays=0&postorder=asc&&start=0

Probabily if I purchase the ICM's LaGG-3 I will never finish the Vector one and in this case will be a very expensive. As you said, plastic is easier to work than resin...
If the ICM's LaGG-3 was released before the Vector's one certainly the affair would be different...

At this time I will try to make the best I can...

Many thanks for your suggestions! Ciao!!!

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (Help for wing damaged)
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on April 06, 2011, 12:03:31 PM
Hi Marco,
the drawings published on LaGG-3 family are the same of Paul Sadovnikov, only in lower resolution. I don't know if he has updated them with further versions in the latest year, but the base is the same.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (Help for wing damaged)
Post by: Markino on April 06, 2011, 12:45:39 PM
Aaarghhh! I wrong the reply to Walker!! You are right Massimo! For LaGG-3 I use the LaGG-3 family drawings on your website.

@Walker (again): do you could give me a suggestion for La-5FN good drawings, please? Some time ago I found on Scalemodel.ru the follow compressed drawings: la5, la5aiv, la5fn, la5fn_1, la5fnkr.

Thanks if someone could help me.

Ciao!

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (Help for wing damaged)
Post by: John Thompson on April 06, 2011, 04:56:40 PM
Hi Marco! I hope Musa will agree with me on this - the best drawings for the La-5 series are the ones from the MBI La-5 monograph; here's a link for the La-5FN:
http://www.airwar.ru/other/draw2/la5fn.html

MBI drawings for La-5 and La-5F:
http://www.airwar.ru/other/draw2/la5f.html

Ciao!

John


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (Help for wing damaged)
Post by: Walker on April 06, 2011, 07:57:33 PM
That's right, John. In these drawings, too, though the error is. Wing a better look at the drawing Sadovnikov.


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (Help for wing damaged)
Post by: Markino on April 07, 2011, 09:12:36 AM
Hi John and Walker!
Many thanks for your indications. I have already download the drawings and in the next time I will check it and I will decide the wing corrections.
Stay tuned! Ciao!

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (Help for wing damaged)
Post by: Markino on February 10, 2012, 12:44:01 PM
Hello friends!
many months are passed from my last speech about Lagg-3. However I never stopped to work on it... Unfortunately I have
very few spare time end a lot of commitments...
Here are some photos of the last interventions made, mainly in the cockpit zone...

I was pleasantly surprised to see the GoNza's photoetched instrument panels setting perfectly on my kit...luckily..

(http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/2708/99cockpitlatodx.jpg)

(http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/1294/100cockpitlatodx.jpg)

(http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/415/101cockpitlatodx.jpg)

(http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/4069/102cockpitlatodx)

(http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/1846/103cockpitlatodx)

(http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/5869/104proveaseccoperordinafy)

(http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/489/105proveaseccoperordina.jpg)

(http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/8969/106proveaseccoperordina.jpg)

(http://img806.imageshack.us/img806/5789/107proveaseccoperordina.jpg)

(http://img828.imageshack.us/img828/8869/108cockpitlatosx.jpg)

(http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/9417/109cockpitlatosx.jpg)

(http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/3038/110cockpitlatosx.jpg)

(http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/6518/111cruscottoeordinata5.jpg)

(http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/1091/112cruscottoesupportove.jpg)

(http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/1619/113ordinata5.jpg)

(http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/2632/114proveaseccocruscotto.jpg)

(http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/9937/115proveaseccocruscotto.jpg)

(http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/5148/116proveaseccoordinata5.jpg)

(http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/3889/117proveaseccoordinata5.jpg)

Now I have some doubts about the correct instrument panel to put on the plane. According to the following photo what
is, on your opinion, the correct set for my model. I wish to build the Kostylev' red 35 (probably a 1/3 series,
as reported on Massimo Tessitori profiles) in white distemper, or the white 44 of the 44 IAP, even a 1/3 series probabily...
I am oriented on A+B set but I do not know if this is the correct one...

(http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/636/118cruscotti.jpg)

The main wing is temporarily aside...


Many thanks for your suggestions and comments!
Stay tuned!

Ciao!

Marco







Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (New update on page 4)
Post by: Markino on February 10, 2012, 12:51:56 PM
The three images who doesn't work above...

(http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/4069/102cockpitlatodx.jpg)

(http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/1846/103cockpitlatodx.jpg)

(http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/5869/104proveaseccoperordinafy.jpg)

Ciao!

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (New update on page 4)
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on February 10, 2012, 12:58:39 PM
Hi Marco,

great work. Have you vacuformed a new canopy?
About the instrument panel: you could find an answer here
http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/lagg3/cockpits/cockpitlagg3.html (http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/lagg3/cockpits/cockpitlagg3.html)

Best regards
Massimo


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (New update on page 4)
Post by: Markino on February 10, 2012, 03:49:44 PM
Hi Massimo,
thanks for your reply. At the moment I have not vacuformed a new canopy, I will made it next time, after fuselages joining, if necessary... ;)

About the instrument panel is my opinion, and as GoNzA suggest in his photoetched set, that the most problable combination is A+D, referred to my photos about instrument panels.
Referring to the link you suggest, there are several combination, but I don't know what is the right one, or the most problable... ??? ???
What do you think about?

Ciao.

Marco



Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (New update on page 4)
Post by: Markino on February 16, 2012, 04:58:54 PM
I would like to know if the Russian friends can help me to understand the differences between the two types of instrument panels below:

From prototype I-301 TO:

(http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/785/3010168.jpg)

From another TO (but I don't know what series...):

(http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/3161/172173originale.jpg)

Many thanks for your help!!

Ciao.

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (Need help for instrument panel)
Post by: marluc on February 17, 2012, 12:55:54 PM
The detailing work in the cockpit interior is superb.Keep on with the good work,greetings.

Martin


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (Need help for instrument panel)
Post by: Markino on February 17, 2012, 02:54:36 PM
Hi Martin,
many thanks for your comment. Coming soon I will procede to reproduce the armor plate, the seat, and so on.
But before I must understand wich kind of instrument panel set in the cockpit... ??? ???

Do you know russian language, by chance?   ;)

Ciao.

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (Need help for instrument panel)
Post by: John Thompson on February 17, 2012, 04:52:52 PM
This may help:

(http://s17.postimage.org/gyjd990dn/Instrument_panels.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/gyjd990dn/)

The one on the left is early (no later than series 6); the one on the right is later.

John


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (Need help for instrument panel)
Post by: GoNzA on February 21, 2012, 09:44:37 AM
Marco!

Allow to express admiration of perfectly executed cockpit.
The impression of the realistic plane cockpit at viewing appears.


I want to pay attention that the top part of the instrument panel for late series in John's message is similar to a detail from my set (D). But it differs a little, as I have made the top panel for I-301 (Fig.109 from prototype I-301 TO). There are small differences on an arrangement of devices.

I can't precisely tell about radio station position on LaGG-3 a series 4.
Probably, the arrangement became already such as we see on photo series 6-7.
But there is a photo with the signature "LaGG-3 a series 4" (but I don't know, on what basis the choice "series 4" is made.) where the radio station is located at the left and it is necessary to use a detail (B) from a set.
(http://gonza.moy.su/pub/ww2history-kyostikarhila-lagg3toosa.jpg)

Similar arrangement of devices we see and in the book "Flugzeuge Sovjetischen Luftwaffe 1942"
(http://gonza.moy.su/pub/Flugzeuge_Sovjetischen_Luftwaffe-1942-Page_206.jpg)

In these photos instrument panel LaGg-3 of early series (no later than series 4) but to define precisely 1, 3 or 4 series it is not obviously possible, I am afraid.


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (Need help for instrument panel)
Post by: Markino on February 22, 2012, 09:12:16 AM
Hi John, hi Anatoly!
Many thanks for your kindly replies & comments. Ok, at this point I am in the half way... ;). I mean: for the lower part it is most probable the (A) part of Anatoly set.

For the upper part I have some doubts again. It the image post by John the earlier upper panel is with radio panel in the centre, while in the images post by Anatoly the earlier upper panel has the radio panel on the left....

Some suggestions about??

In my own opinion the most probable arrangements could be A+B by Anatoly set....
What do you think about?

Ciao!!!

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (Need help for instrument panel)
Post by: GoNzA on February 22, 2012, 10:29:45 AM
I think that both variants (both А+D and А+B) are historically possible.

The type of the instrument panel depended on at what factory is let out concrete LaGG-3 (in the begin WWII have they been let out at several factories, considering evacuation of the enterprises).

Today precisely to establish, I think, it is impossible.


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (Need help for instrument panel)
Post by: Markino on February 23, 2012, 08:46:27 AM
Hi Anatoly,
thanks for your comments and explanations. As written before, I think I will choose the A+B variants...
Now I will to proceed with new details. I will shows next time...not in a year...I hope... ;) ;)

Thanks to all for help and comments!

Ciao.

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (There is anyone...)
Post by: Markino on February 29, 2012, 04:33:23 PM
...there is anyone member on aviaskins.com? A member, Ivan750, has realised the follow skins for IL-2' LaGG-3: http://www.aviaskins.com/downloadskin.aspx?id=749&lang=en
I wish to ask him where he found references about Kostylev LaGG-3, because it  is the model I would to build...
Unfortunately I don't know russian and I can not register me on the site.
So, if someone is a member of Aviaskin could ask to him wich I would to know.
I hope to explain well... :-\

Regars. Ciao!

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (There is anyone...)
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on February 29, 2012, 05:44:10 PM
Hi Marco
here, I suppose.
http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/lagg3/44iap/red35.html (http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/lagg3/44iap/red35.html)
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (There is anyone...)
Post by: Markino on March 01, 2012, 08:40:45 AM
Hi Massimo!
No, I have not explained well... Ivan750 has created a skin for red 35 with the upper side of the wing in white distemper, as the whole plane, so I wish to ask him where he found the reference pictures or images and if possible if he could send me a copy of them. Maybe is only an assumption as it should be the real Kostylev red 35 but I would like to know more about.

I well know your red 35 and it is my main reference  :) :)

Regards.

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (Need informations for cockpit rear windows)
Post by: Markino on July 10, 2012, 09:28:15 AM
Hi guys, I need informations for cockpit rear windows (as shown below). They was covered with wooden panel (or spruce) or they was not covered?

(http://img864.imageshack.us/img864/9435/perfinestrinidietro2.jpg)

Thanks for your reply!
New update on my kit coming soon in the next week!!

Ciao Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (Need informations for cockpit rear windows)
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on July 10, 2012, 11:02:27 AM
Hi Marco,
it's nearly always closed, probably few centimeters inside the glazing.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (Need informations for cockpit rear windows)
Post by: Markino on July 10, 2012, 12:08:26 PM
Hi Massimo, thanks for your reply. This saves having to rebuild what's inside...

I hope to post soon new developements on my LaGG-3. The cockpit is nearly ready for painting, lacks only the oil cooler...
Ciao.

Marco



Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (Need informations for cockpit rear windows)
Post by: John Thompson on July 10, 2012, 10:39:33 PM
These may help:

(http://s7.postimage.org/ayxs1od0n/255iap_4.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/ayxs1od0n/) (http://s17.postimage.org/ns7izjxiz/I_88_159_05.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/ns7izjxiz/)

John


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (Need informations for cockpit rear windows)
Post by: Markino on July 11, 2012, 08:14:18 AM
Hi John, yes, these are very useful!! :)
Many thanks!

Ciao!

Marco

p.s. ehmmm...someone could give me informations about gunsight, as drawings, pictures or something 'else? Thanks!




Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (Need informations for cockpit rear windows)
Post by: B_Realistic on July 11, 2012, 09:42:14 AM
Markino,

this is the first time that I see your work and it's very impressive. :o

Michel


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (Need informations for cockpit rear windows)
Post by: Markino on July 11, 2012, 10:05:52 AM
Hi Michel, many thanks for your appreciation  :).
Sincerely I would prefer a kit not so troublesome... It is however a great gym...

Ciao.

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (Need informations for cockpit rear windows)
Post by: John Thompson on July 11, 2012, 05:40:03 PM
p.s. ehmmm...someone could give me informations about gunsight, as drawings, pictures or something 'else? Thanks!

Hi Marco! Here's a page with photos of Russian gunsights:
http://sv06.wadax.ne.jp/~gunsight-jp/b/english/data/sight-e-s.htm

One of the images from the German test report which GoNzA posted shows the sight to be a PBP-1, although PBP-1A is also possible according to Gunston's Osprey Encyclopedia of Russian Aircraft. The page which I linked above says "PBP-1?", which doesn't help much. Also note that the gunsight is visible in side view in one of the photos I posted yesterday. I hope this helps!

Look here, also:
http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/lagg3/cockpits/cockpitlagg3.html

John


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (Need informations for cockpit rear windows)
Post by: B_Realistic on July 12, 2012, 09:15:16 AM
Marco,

I thought the Vector kit was such a beauty.....

Michel


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (Need informations for cockpit rear windows)
Post by: Markino on July 12, 2012, 12:06:48 PM
Hi guys, thanks for your reply!
@John: thanks for links. They are very useful. I have some pictures also. I hoped to find some drawings or pictures with several views about PBP-1.... :-\

@Michel: My too tought the Vector kit was a good kit but I was misled by several reviews about the kit. The authors descibed it as the ultimate kit for LaGG-3 but when it arrived to me and I opened the box I had a very bad surprise.... and you think I have also the La-5FN...how much money thrown away!!!! However then I comforted myself buing the beautiful La-5FN by Zvezda...

See you soon with new updates!
Ciao

Marco



Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (Need informations for cockpit rear windows)
Post by: Markino on July 16, 2012, 08:50:36 AM
Hi guys, works on LaGG  proceeding and then I'll post what I've done so far. Comments and suggestions are always welcome.

Rear of instrument panel:

(http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/4769/119parteposteriorecrusc.jpg)

(http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/296/120parteposteriorecrusc.jpg)

Water cooler duct & fit tests:

(http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/2631/121dimaecontrodimaradia.jpg)

(http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/2986/122dimaecontrodimaradia.jpg)

(http://img802.imageshack.us/img802/479/126proveaseccodimaradia.jpg)

(http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/2743/127proveaseccodimaradia.jpg)

(http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/7910/130proveaseccodimaradia.jpg)

(http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/3855/131termoformaturacondot.jpg)

(http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/7346/132termoformaturacondot.jpg)

(http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/6051/133termoformaturacondot.jpg)

Tail wheel bay & tool:

(http://img840.imageshack.us/img840/1213/123vanoruotadicodaeattr.jpg)

(http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/6886/124vanoruotadicodaeattr.jpg)

Bulkhead n? 12:

(http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/5463/134ordinata12esupportor.jpg)

(http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/294/135ordinata12esupportor.jpg)

(http://img825.imageshack.us/img825/186/136ordinata12esupportor.jpg)

Elevator balance mass:

(http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/9152/137bilanciereinternopia.jpg)

(http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/4210/138bilanciereinternopia.jpg)

Machine guns reload spring:

(http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/2273/139dispositiviriarmomit.jpg)

(http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/9798/140dispositiviriarmomit.jpg)

Seat:

(http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/5527/142dimaetermoformaturas.jpg)

(http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/2379/144sedilepilota.jpg)

(http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/222/145sedilepilota.jpg)

(http://img585.imageshack.us/img585/2640/146sedilepilota.jpg)

(http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/7730/147sedilepilota.jpg)

Floor, control column & rudder pedals:

(http://img849.imageshack.us/img849/4673/150pavimentopedalieraeb.jpg)

(http://img840.imageshack.us/img840/870/148pavimentopedalieraeb.jpg)

(http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/8961/149pavimentopedalieraeb.jpg)

Various fit tests:

(http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/4569/151proveaseccoparticola.jpg)

(http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/3109/152proveaseccoparticola.jpg)

(http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/2545/153proveaseccoparticola.jpg)

(http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/6177/154proveaseccoparticola.jpg)

See you soon with new updates.
Ciao!

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (Before summer updates on pag. 6)
Post by: B_Realistic on July 16, 2012, 08:58:54 AM
Marko,

I don't have the words for your craftmenship.
You should make an update set from it.

Michel


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (Before summer updates on pag. 6)
Post by: Markino on July 16, 2012, 10:22:15 AM
Hi Michel, thanks for your comment. I tought in fact to realize a resin set from my scratch but surely the time to complete the kit wuold greately increase. Much better to purchase a good kit of LaGG-3, like the ICM one....NOT VECTOR OF COURSE!!! ;) ;).

Ciao!

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (Before summer updates on pag. 6)
Post by: B_Realistic on July 16, 2012, 12:10:53 PM
Marco,

maybe that you keep that in mind when building another cockpit from scratch.
I hope that I can see the Lagg someday for real. :D

Michel


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (Before summer updates on pag. 6)
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on July 16, 2012, 12:51:02 PM
Hi Marco,
I am really astonished for all this well-made scratchbuilding work.
A vacuform machine... you could really make some improving set to sell, maybe vaku canopies for types where they're poorly reproduced.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (Before summer updates on pag. 6)
Post by: Markino on July 16, 2012, 03:10:53 PM
Hi Massimo, hi Michel,
maybe the next time I could try to make a resin copy of my scratchbulding...and maybe could be the MiG-3 Alanger... ::)

For vacu canopies I will make surely the LaGG-3 one  ;). Unfortunately I have not enough spare time to make a complete improving set. LaGG-3 was started a long time ago... :-\
If some members wishes (...not for hundred of pieces...) I could send a copy of that I use on my LaGG: seat, internal and external water cooler duct (the external one is planned but not realized yet) and canopies. Costs for material and shipping rates only.
Keep in mind that these parts are for a scratchbuilded LaGG-3 and the measures may be incorrect for other kit...
The vacuforming machines is builded and selled by an Italian retired craftsman...

Ciao.

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (Before summer updates on pag. 6)
Post by: learstang on July 16, 2012, 05:50:44 PM
Incredible work there, Marco!  It should look brilliant once it's all painted!

Regards,

Jason


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (Before summer updates on pag. 6)
Post by: Markino on July 17, 2012, 09:12:21 AM
Hi Jason,
thank for your appreciation! I hope to do a good job with painting...

Ciao.

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (A little doubt about rear panel bulkhead n?5 on pag. 6)
Post by: Markino on July 26, 2012, 10:05:09 AM
Hello guys,
some little step on LaGG. I need your help to clarify a doubt on bulkhead n?5. I realized the rear panel with ortogonal junction to bulkhead 5 but I am not sure of this. Do you think possible the course was angled like I mark in red on the third pictures?
Many thanks for your help, suggestions & comments.
Ciao.

Marco

(http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/2619/155retroordinata5.jpg)

(http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/5660/156retroordinata5.jpg)

(http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/9864/157retroordinata5modifi.jpg)


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (A little doubt about rear panel bulkhead n?5 on pag. 6)
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on July 26, 2012, 05:21:31 PM
Hi Marco,
I don't think it was much angled, but the structure looks too sophisticated for my guess. I suppose they have simply applied two rectangles of plywood with screws inside the windows.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (A little doubt about rear panel bulkhead n?5 on pag. 6)
Post by: Markino on July 27, 2012, 12:53:24 PM
Hi Massimo,
thanks for your reply. For me too is hard to determine the main correct course for those panels... Unfortunately there is not  upper cutaways drawings to determine this; I examined a lot of pictures but I was unable to determine correctly the panel course... In the kit the relative piece has the angled panels... But the kit is not one of the most correct... ;).
Without of more accurate informations I will leave the panels as they are...
I hope some other members could have good informations about this area...
Ciao!

Marco




Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (A little doubt about rear panel bulkhead n?5 on pag. 6)
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on July 27, 2012, 01:59:47 PM
Hi Marco,
it sounds reasonable.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (A little doubt about rear panel bulkhead n?5 on pag. 6)
Post by: Markino on August 03, 2012, 10:08:48 AM
Hello guys,
I need informations about  Kostylev' red 35. I wish to know if is it could have the  propeller coaxial machine gun. I need to know to decide if set or not the reload handle for this weapon.
Many thanks for your help  :).
Ciao.

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (Help! I need info about propeller coaxial cannon on pag. 7)
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on August 03, 2012, 02:36:51 PM
Hi Marco,
I think that all the LaGG-3s had the coaxial weapon, its type or caliber could eventually change.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (Help! I need info about propeller coaxial cannon on pag. 7)
Post by: Markino on August 06, 2012, 12:58:39 PM
Hi Massimo, many thanks for your reply. Ok, I made the coaxial cannon reload handle using the kit one... ;).
Below some pictures about the last item I realized. Next time I will start to painting the internal...
Comments & suggestions always appreciated!

The bulkhead n? 5 in the most probable and final arrangement:

(http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/3482/158ordinata5ok.jpg)

(http://img607.imageshack.us/img607/3765/159ordinata5ok.jpg)

(http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/3048/160ordinata5ok.jpg)

The oil cooler:

(http://img846.imageshack.us/img846/4796/161radiatoreolio.jpg)

(http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/3512/162radiatoreolio.jpg)

(http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/8834/163radiatoreolio.jpg)

Water cooler:

(http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/9729/164radiatoreacqua.jpg)

(http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/678/165radiatoreacqua.jpg)

(http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/9054/166radiatoreacqua.jpg)

The gunsight:

(http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/7086/167collimatore.jpg)

(http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/4614/168collimatore.jpg)

Coaxial cannon reload handle:

(http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/5210/169manigliariarmocannon.jpg)

(http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/592/170manigliariarmocannon.jpg)

Ciao!!

Marco
 


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (Latest details before the holidays on pag. 7)
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on August 06, 2012, 02:14:25 PM
Hi Marco,
it's an impressive work. Will the side details of the coolers be visible on the completed model?
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (Latest details before the holidays on pag. 7)
Post by: B_Realistic on August 06, 2012, 03:07:37 PM
I hope that all the detail will be seen when the model is finished. :D
This is amazing.


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (Latest details before the holidays on pag. 7)
Post by: Markino on August 06, 2012, 03:18:03 PM
Hi guys,
the grids of the coolers I think so but the pipes and the sides details I think not... but no matter I like to know that they are... ;) ;).

Ciao.

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (Latest details before the holidays on pag. 7)
Post by: Markino on August 28, 2012, 09:24:23 AM
Hi guys! Holidays are over, unfortunately... :(...
I prepared details for painting and I will begin those in secon photo. Internal fuselages and bulkhead n?5 will be in Aluminium. I'm thinking for the best one: Alclad, Testors or the old and well tested Humbrol....what do you think about? Any suggestions?

For the armour plate I am thinking to paint it with Testors Stainless Steel Metallizer and dark leather for headrest. Or it was in other color...?

And the seat? Aluminium, steel or some other color? In some photos it appear in grey or blue gray... ???

Many thanks for your opinions!!
Ciao.

Marco

(http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/1126/171pezziconprimer.jpg)

(http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/8519/172primogruppoparticola.jpg)


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (Preparation for painting details on pag. 7)
Post by: B_Realistic on August 28, 2012, 09:37:39 AM
I would give a go ahead for Alclad because it's so easy.
I can't give you any details concerning your other questions and leave this to the professionals. :D


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (Preparation for painting details on pag. 7)
Post by: Markino on August 28, 2012, 11:28:28 AM
Hi Michael, thanks for your suggestion  :). I purchased Alclad and his black for background several...time ago. Maybe now is time to use it... ;).

What do you think about Testors Metallizer. Do you have experience with it?

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (Preparation for painting details on pag. 7)
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on August 28, 2012, 12:39:34 PM
Hi Marco, hi Michel,
really an impressive scratchbuilding of details!
The colors... embarassingly I don't know them, but I imagine that an unpainted steel plate becomes rusty, so I would exclude unpainted metal. All the sides are silver because the wood was painted with a silver primer. I suggest one with a granulous look, it hasn't to reproduce unpainted metal.
Colors of the rear plate... on photos I see a medium color for the plate, with a nearly black headrest. I don't know the real color, in doubt I would go with A-14 grey, or with green as it was found on a wreck of MiG-3.
About the aluminium part of the seat, I guess it could be unpainted, but I haven't real informations.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (Preparation for painting details on pag. 7)
Post by: B_Realistic on August 28, 2012, 12:52:01 PM
Marco,

using Alclad is easy. They say so to use it with a black paint underneath. I've seen using Alclad directly on the model also.
This been done by Jaroslav Galler is you know him.
I can't remember the use of MM Metalics.


Michel


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (Preparation for painting details on pag. 7)
Post by: Markino on August 28, 2012, 02:08:01 PM
Hi Michael,
next days I will do some tests using Alclad with and without black undercoat to determine the best result.
Ciao.

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (Preparation for painting details on pag. 7)
Post by: learstang on August 28, 2012, 05:59:55 PM
I've used Testors Metalizer paints and found them to be easy to use.  Also the Metalizer sealer makes a nice gloss coat to prepare a model for decals (and for spraying on the decal sheet itself to strengthen the decals).

Regards,

Jason


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (Preparation for painting details on pag. 7)
Post by: B_Realistic on August 28, 2012, 09:01:28 PM
@Marco,

ok.
I think that I liked the Alclad without the black paint underneath more because it was more realistic.

@Jason,

do you also use the MM flat coat?

Michel


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (Preparation for painting details on pag. 7)
Post by: learstang on August 28, 2012, 10:31:49 PM
I have, but with not as much luck.  To be honest, I've never seemed to have much luck with flat coats, no matter what the make or whether it's acrylic or otherwise.  It either splatters, goes on semi-gloss, or goes on so flat it gives a chalky appearance to the paint.  I'd like to hear if someone has a good non-acrylic flat coat they can recommend.  I actually have three models I'm at the stage of applying the flat coat (a VVS P-47D, a LaGG-3, and a VVS P-39Q).  I'll let you know if I find a flat coat that works.

Regards,

Jason


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (Preparation for painting details on pag. 7)
Post by: B_Realistic on August 29, 2012, 08:56:26 AM
Jason,

I also had the same results with the MM Flat coat.
I use Purity Seal from Games Workshop.
It comes in a spray can and just spray it directly to your model and done.
No problems at all.
It gives a very fine satin finish.

Michel


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (Preparation for painting details on pag. 7)
Post by: Markino on August 29, 2012, 09:05:10 AM
@Marco,

ok.
I think that I liked the Alclad without the black paint underneath more because it was more realistic.

Michel

Hi Michel,
very interesting. I will do this test also  ;)!

I have, but with not as much luck.  To be honest, I've never seemed to have much luck with flat coats, no matter what the make or whether it's acrylic or otherwise.  It either splatters, goes on semi-gloss, or goes on so flat it gives a chalky appearance to the paint.  I'd like to hear if someone has a good non-acrylic flat coat they can recommend.  I actually have three models I'm at the stage of applying the flat coat (a VVS P-47D, a LaGG-3, and a VVS P-39Q).  I'll let you know if I find a flat coat that works.

Regards,

Jason

Hi Jason,
Thanks for your reply on MM Metallizer, I will do tests with it also.
About your question on flat coat (you mean clear coats, right?), I love both Humbrol (not acrylic), clear, satin and matt. I never had problem with they and I still use they. With acrylic ones I had bad results like yours, with chalky appearenca too... >:(. If you can try Humbrol.
Ciao.

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (Preparation for painting details on pag. 7)
Post by: Seawinder on August 29, 2012, 04:49:06 PM
I have, but with not as much luck.  To be honest, I've never seemed to have much luck with flat coats, no matter what the make or whether it's acrylic or otherwise.  It either splatters, goes on semi-gloss, or goes on so flat it gives a chalky appearance to the paint.  I'd like to hear if someone has a good non-acrylic flat coat they can recommend.  I actually have three models I'm at the stage of applying the flat coat (a VVS P-47D, a LaGG-3, and a VVS P-39Q).  I'll let you know if I find a flat coat that works.
Regards,
Jason

Hi Jason.
FWIW, over the last couple of years (since Testors screwed up Polly Scale Flat, which had been far and away my favorite), I've been using Micro Flat from Microscale. It's easy to apply and dries with no trace of chalking. Only problem is, it's not really flat -- it's really a satin finish with a definite, subtle sheen, actually very good IMHO for weathered gloss finishes. I used it straight up for the I-16 in AII green/blue that I'm just completing. If I want a real flat finish, I add a SMALL amount of Tamiya flat base -- perhaps 1-to-2 with the Micro Flat. There's still very little, if any, chalking, just a nice, dead flat.

HTH
Pip


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (Preparation for painting details on pag. 7)
Post by: learstang on August 29, 2012, 05:26:24 PM
Thank you very much gentlemen for the suggestions!  I will try one or all of them.

Best Regards,

Jason


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (Preparation for painting details on pag. 7)
Post by: Markino on August 30, 2012, 11:24:51 AM
Hi Massimo,
thanks for your reply and appreciation.

All the sides are silver because the wood was painted with a silver primer. I suggest one with a granulous look, it hasn't to reproduce unpainted metal.

I would try Humbrol enamel for this reason, I think it is sligtly thick then the others. Obiovusly I will try MM Metallizer and Alclad for better comparison.
I think that I will follow your suggestion and I will paint the armour plate in A-14 grey.
About the seat next time I will post a photo to know your opinion.
Ciao.

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (Preparation for painting details on pag. 7)
Post by: Markino on August 30, 2012, 11:48:02 AM
Hi guys,
for A-14 grey (FS26293 or 36293) anybody could tell me an equivalent color like Humbrol, Gunze, etc...
Thanks!

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (Need help for A-14 grey on pag. 8)
Post by: learstang on August 30, 2012, 05:49:11 PM
Marco, I use Testors Model Master Neutral Gray for A-14 Steel Grey.  It seems to be a good match.

Regards,

Jason


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (Need help for A-14 grey on pag. 8)
Post by: Markino on August 31, 2012, 08:27:58 AM
Marco, I use Testors Model Master Neutral Gray for A-14 Steel Grey.  It seems to be a good match.

Hi Jason, do you have a color reference number also, please?
Thanks!

Ciao!

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (Need help for A-14 grey on pag. 8)
Post by: B_Realistic on August 31, 2012, 09:04:13 AM
Marco,

does this help?

http://scalemodeldb.com/paintcharts/modelmaster

Michel


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (Need help for A-14 grey on pag. 8)
Post by: Markino on August 31, 2012, 09:40:44 AM
Hi Michel,
Many thanks! I think so, now I must to...drive it.. to find correspondence between FS26293 and Model Master colors... ;)

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (Need help for A-14 grey on pag. 8)
Post by: Markino on August 31, 2012, 10:06:01 AM
Marco, I use Testors Model Master Neutral Gray for A-14 Steel Grey.  It seems to be a good match.

Could be the MM 1725 Neutral Grey?

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (Need help for A-14 grey on pag. 8)
Post by: learstang on August 31, 2012, 05:31:53 PM
That's the one, Marco.  It has the FS number as being 36270.

Regards,

Jason


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (Need help for A-14 grey on pag. 8)
Post by: Markino on September 03, 2012, 08:36:06 AM
Many thanks Jason!
Ciao!

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (a few steps forward, A-14 grey and dry tests on pag. 8)
Post by: Markino on September 21, 2012, 09:41:10 AM
Hi guys, some small step forward. I managed to find a gray A-14 credible enough (Humbrol 126) and I did some dry test between wing and fuselage. Wow .... truly looks like an airplane ... ! :P :P

 I think I've picked quite closely the shape of the aircraft, but to see it like that and with a little bit of experience as a flight instructor I find it really a... "dresser". Honour and merit to those Russian pilots who flew, fought and many died whit it...

 Comments and suggestions are always welcome  :)

 Hello.

(http://imageshack.us/a/img255/5093/173provegrigiofs26293.jpg)

(http://imageshack.us/a/img51/4594/174proveaseccoalafusoli.jpg)

(http://imageshack.us/a/img267/4863/175proveaseccoalafusoli.jpg)

(http://imageshack.us/a/img109/2783/176proveaseccoalafusoli.jpg)

(http://imageshack.us/a/img688/3861/177proveaseccoalafusoli.jpg)

(http://imageshack.us/a/img15/5696/178proveaseccoalafusoli.jpg)


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (a few steps forward, A-14 grey and dry tests on pag. 8)
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on September 21, 2012, 09:46:00 AM
Hi Marco,
this work is more and more impressive. Is the part below vacuformed?
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (a few steps forward, A-14 grey and dry tests on pag. 8)
Post by: Markino on September 21, 2012, 10:46:38 AM
Hi Massimo, thanks for your reply. Yes, the water cooler duct is vucuformed. On page 6 you can see the construction and vacuforming.

What do you think about Humbrol 126 as A-14 grey. It could be a good match?
Ciao.

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (a few steps forward, A-14 grey and dry tests on pag. 8)
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on September 21, 2012, 11:03:44 AM
Hi,
I suppose yes, but to tell this for sure would require an original sample. However, 27 looks too dark.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (a few steps forward, A-14 grey and dry tests on pag. 8)
Post by: Markino on September 21, 2012, 03:56:38 PM
Ok, thanks for reply! Have a good weekend  :)!!

Ciao!

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (a few steps forward, A-14 grey and dry tests on pag. 8)
Post by: learstang on September 21, 2012, 06:04:23 PM
Marco, Humbrol 26 looks pretty close to what I use, Testors MM Neutral Gray.

Regards,

Jason


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (a few steps forward, A-14 grey and dry tests on pag. 8)
Post by: Markino on September 24, 2012, 09:06:27 AM
Hi Jason,
many thanks for your suggestion on Humbrol 26 and Testors MM. I will try both next ;).
Ciao!

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (a few steps forward, A-14 grey and dry tests on pag. 8)
Post by: Markino on September 26, 2012, 09:20:47 AM
Marco, Humbrol 26 looks pretty close to what I use....

Regards,

Jason

Hi Jason, I checked Humbrol 26 but it is a Matt Kaki.... Are you sure it is 26 or...126...? ;)
Ciao.

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (a few steps forward, A-14 grey and dry tests on pag. 8)
Post by: B_Realistic on September 26, 2012, 09:34:21 AM
Marco,

Thanks for testing. :D

Michel


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (a few steps forward, A-14 grey and dry tests on pag. 8)
Post by: learstang on September 26, 2012, 05:43:31 PM
Oops!  It is Humbrol 126.  Sorry for the confusion!

Best Regards,

Jason


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (Need help for instrument panel color on pag. 9)
Post by: Markino on September 27, 2012, 09:01:28 AM
Ok Jason, not problem, I had understood  ;).

But now a new question:....which the color of the instrument panel, about your opinion??

Ciao!

Marco



Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (Need help for instrument panel color on pag. 9)
Post by: learstang on September 27, 2012, 05:48:27 PM
On Il-2's it was a light grey, probably AE-9; but on LaGG-3's I'm not sure.  If you have photographs and it looks like a light colour, I'd go with AE-9, for which I use Model Master Light Gray.

Regards,

Jason


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (Need help for instrument panel color on pag. 9)
Post by: Markino on September 28, 2012, 09:19:16 AM
Hi Jason, thanks for your reply. Here: http://sovietwarplanes.com/board/index.php?PHPSESSID=g04r36v8qlaehd8qtonamhpj23&topic=815.0, John Thompson speaks on the same topic  :)! I think replies for him will be right for me too.
AE-9 is the same of AEh-9?

Ciao!

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (Need help for instrument panel color on pag. 9)
Post by: learstang on September 28, 2012, 05:39:26 PM
Hi Jason, thanks for your reply. Here: http://sovietwarplanes.com/board/index.php?PHPSESSID=g04r36v8qlaehd8qtonamhpj23&topic=815.0, John Thompson speaks on the same topic  :)! I think replies for him will be right for me too.
AE-9 is the same of AEh-9?

Ciao!

Marco

You're welcome, Marco!  Yes, AE-9 is the same as AEh-9.  Those photograph links of the instrument panel show well this light colour.

Regards,

Jason


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (Need help for instrument panel color on pag. 9)
Post by: Markino on October 02, 2012, 08:21:37 AM
You're welcome, Marco!  Yes, AE-9 is the same as AEh-9.  Those photograph links of the instrument panel show well this light colour.


Many Thanks Jason! Ciao!

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48 (Need help for cockpit color pipes on pag. 9)
Post by: Markino on November 26, 2012, 09:23:37 AM
Hello guys! Job on LaGG-3 continues with cockpit painting. I need your help to know if the color pipes on the right cockpit sidewall could be as shown on picture below. I also need to know the corresponding color, humbrol or something else, for red akan 374 and azure FS 15187.
Many thanks for your help!!
Ciao.

Marco(http://imageshack.us/a/img843/8679/179percoloritubazioni.jpg)


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector1/48(Товарищи! понятия не имею, на мой послед&
Post by: Markino on November 30, 2012, 08:30:30 AM
Товарищи! понятия не имею, на мой последний вопрос о цветах трубопровода? ;D ;D

Hi guys nobody has ideas on my last question about cockpit colors pipes ?   ???

Ciao!!

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48(Товарищи! понятия не имею, на мой послед
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on November 30, 2012, 10:30:26 AM
Hi Marco,
I suppose that the colors are about as you have drawn them.  About the pipe in lower position: is it from a compressed air bottle? I think black.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48(Товарищи! понятия не имею, на мой послед
Post by: Markino on November 30, 2012, 01:50:12 PM
Hi Massimo, thanks for your reply! The pipes in the lower position are from compressed air bottle (from rear of airplane), fuel (maybe in the very lower position)  and oil (but the latter I'm not sure... ???).
I think  air and oil pipes could be ok in black and fuel pipes in yellow...
What do you think about?

Ciao!

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48(Товарищи! понятия не имею, на мой послед
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on November 30, 2012, 06:10:17 PM
Hi Marco,
I think that oil pipes are in brown, air pipes in black. See here:http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/colors/color-table.html (http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/colors/color-table.html)
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48(Товарищи! понятия не имею, на мой послед
Post by: Markino on December 03, 2012, 12:05:50 PM
Hi Massimo, thanks for your reply. Yes, I well studied your color table  ;)!
Now the trouble is to determine what color could be similar to Azure A-10 FS 15187....
Some ideas about...(Humbrol or Gunze will be preferable)?

Ciao.

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48(Товарищи! понятия не имею, на мой послед
Post by: B_Realistic on December 03, 2012, 12:41:24 PM
Marco,

Take a look at this.
Maybe you'll find a good conversion.

http://www.paint4models.com/

Michel


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48(Товарищи! понятия не имею, на мой послед
Post by: Markino on December 03, 2012, 04:54:07 PM
Hi Michel, many thanks for your suggestion. Is very useful! The conversion chart suggests Humbrol 48 Mediterranean Blue. Is not the exact match but is it a good start. I think mixing with Humbrol 25 will be a good match, provided that someone else has a better way or has already tried other mixes....
Any suggestion...?

Ciao.

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48(Cockpit details & aileron corrections...)
Post by: Markino on December 18, 2012, 02:09:18 PM
Hi guys, the LaGG-3 challenge goes on!
Below some pictures of the cabin details and the internal fuselages ready for the details assembly.
I hope to mount details in these xmas holidays... from this friday untill January 14th...

(http://imageshack.us/a/img855/7110/180particolaricabina.jpg)

(http://imageshack.us/a/img17/2397/181particolaricabina.jpg)

(http://imageshack.us/a/img402/6852/182cabinadipinta.jpg)

(http://imageshack.us/a/img10/8826/183cabinadxdipinta.jpg)

(http://imageshack.us/a/img687/5169/184cabinasxdipinta.jpg)

Then I start to correct the aileron and their place, making a spruce templates realized by correct drawings.

(http://imageshack.us/a/img827/5348/185modificasedialettoni.jpg)

(http://imageshack.us/a/img832/6647/186dimapermodificaalett.jpg)

(http://imageshack.us/a/img198/4084/187dimapermodificaalett.jpg)

Comments and suggestions always well accept.

Merry Cristhmas and Happy New Year!!!
We meet again after January 14th....

Ciao.

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48(Cockpit details & aileron corrections on pg. 10)
Post by: B_Realistic on December 18, 2012, 04:40:14 PM
Marko,

Nice cockpit. :D
I would add some lighter shade of the cockpit color on the edges to make it more appearant.
So you'll create more depth and you see more of the detail inside when the cockpit halves are closed.

Michel


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48(Cockpit details & aileron corrections on pg. 10)
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on December 18, 2012, 05:03:23 PM
Really impressive. It is a pity that, at the end, a lot of this is hidden inside the fuselage.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48(Cockpit details & aileron corrections on pg. 10)
Post by: learstang on December 18, 2012, 06:11:09 PM
Brilliant work on the cockpit, Marco!  Beautiful details.  Happy Holidays to you!

Regards,

Jason


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48(Cockpit details & aileron corrections on pg. 10)
Post by: 66misos on December 18, 2012, 09:39:00 PM
Hi Markino,

very nice work. I am in the final stages with my LaGG-3 from ICM. If only interior of that my LaGG-3 was so nice as yours. I have to say that after fuselage halves are glued together, really a lot of details disappear. Although silver color will enhance them more than my grey A-14. I know it is not correct color, but I realized it too late.
May be you could try to consider B_Realistic's advice about lighter edges and/or a bit darker wash to enhance those tiny details.

Btw, are you already decided about camouflage and marking?

Happy modeling.
     66misos


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48(Cockpit details & aileron corrections on pg. 10)
Post by: Markino on December 19, 2012, 08:33:00 AM
Hello guys, many thanks for your comments and appreciation. Yes, I agree with you, many of details will be hidden when fuselages will be closed but I like to know that there are.... :). However it was a good gym for scratchbuilding... and is not ended yet!!

About lighter shadow, unfortunately photos do not make a good idea, in fact they are more depth and more enhance...

For camouflage and marking I decide to realize as follow, the captain Kostilev's red 35.  I think this image  is a good match of the real plane.
Even if there are no pictures about wing upperside I think is very close to the real one.

What do you think about?

(http://imageshack.us/a/img853/4430/35rosso.jpg)

Ciao!

Marco



Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48(Cockpit details & aileron corrections on pg. 10)
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on December 19, 2012, 01:03:26 PM
Hi Marco,
all what I have on 35 is here
http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/lagg3/44iap/red35.html (http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/lagg3/44iap/red35.html)
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48(Cockpit details & aileron corrections on pg. 10)
Post by: Markino on December 19, 2012, 01:45:36 PM
Yes Massimo, I know well the page  ;), it is my main reference for Kostilev's red 35. On Aviaskin website I read the autor has hypothesized that upperside wings was as shown on picture relying by other similar planes from same unit.
Do you think is a credible interpretation?

Ciao.

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48(Cockpit details & aileron corrections on pg. 10)
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on December 19, 2012, 08:12:15 PM
Hi Marco,
it's the only reasonable thing to suppose.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48(Cockpit details & aileron corrections on pg. 10)
Post by: learstang on December 20, 2012, 12:50:12 AM
That's a very nice scheme, Marco!  I've always liked those partial winter camouflage schemes.

Regards,

Jason


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48(Cockpit details & aileron corrections on pg. 10)
Post by: KL on December 20, 2012, 01:21:43 AM
What do you think about?

(http://imageshack.us/a/img853/4430/35rosso.jpg)

I would look for a better documented plane.   Kostilev's red 35 is a plane with "hypothetical" markings/camouflage!!! 

I would look for at least one photo showing entire plane (from spinner to ruder)... it may help if unit is known - to compare it with similar planes...

HTH,
KL


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48(Cockpit details & aileron corrections on pg. 10)
Post by: B_Realistic on December 20, 2012, 10:16:08 AM
Marko,

Great looking camo. It resembles like the camo sheme I used for my Il-2.
It was a lot of fun. If you need any help just ask.  :D
But for the moment I'm leaving the path of VVS aircraft and I'm busy with a yellow Fairey Firefly from Sweden. It is all weathered and has no wings.

Michel


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48(Cockpit details & aileron corrections on pg. 10)
Post by: Markino on December 20, 2012, 03:02:33 PM
Hello guys, many thanks for your replies. KL, I am agree with you regarding the not completely well know Kostilev red 35.
There are only a couple of pictures about this plane and the upperside wings is only hypothetical, but this profile has been hipothized by
planes from the same unit and, by similarity, it may have been quite so (http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/lagg3/3gviap/3gviap59.html; http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/lagg3/3gviap/3gviap30.html); in several russian website I discovered often the use of the same camouflage scheme.
I choice this profile because I like it a lot and because  Frankly I don't know if exist a LaGG-3 Zavod 23 4th series well photographated.
Alternatively I like the white 44 (http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/lagg3/44iap/44iap44.html), but I prefer the red 35....

If some furums members have good informations about red 35 I would be very grateful!! Unfortunately I don't know Russian and I can't
ask for more informations but I think some Russian people could have more information about red 35.

Many thanks for your help!!

Ciao!

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48(Cockpit details & aileron corrections on pg. 10)
Post by: Markino on December 21, 2012, 09:30:59 AM
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all!!!!

We meet again on January 14th (if I can't find an internet connection before  ;))...
Ciao

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48(Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!!)
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on December 21, 2012, 12:16:16 PM
Merry Xmas Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48(Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!!)
Post by: 66misos on January 15, 2013, 10:42:24 AM
Hi Marco,
here are some screenshots that may will help you with winter camo on LaGG-3:

(http://i1063.photobucket.com/albums/t518/66misos/LaGG-3/PictMix01.jpg)

Those pictures do not show your plane (Red "35") but can help as analogy:
- white color on the wings starts not exactly on the leading edge and it does not cover part of the wing close to fuselage,
- weathered spinner,
- engine is covered with something looking like two military winter coats, quite nice improvised solution,
- last picture shows how white upperwing can look like.

I am really curious for your final result.
Happy modeling.

Regards,
    66misos


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48(Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!!)
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on January 15, 2013, 04:09:58 PM
Hi Misos,
nice screenshots. I never saw them before.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48(Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!!)
Post by: 66misos on January 15, 2013, 05:53:19 PM
Hi Massimo,

it is from TV series Крылья России - Истребители - Грозовые годы (Wings od Russia).
You can find it on Youtube. Here it shorter version http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcamQtFeHFs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcamQtFeHFs)
It is at about 2:28 from 4:03.

Here is nice view to LaGG-3 cockpit showing headrest and area behind the rear window:
(http://i1063.photobucket.com/albums/t518/66misos/LaGG-3/LAGG3-cockpit.jpg)

regards,
    66misos


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48(Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!!)
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on January 15, 2013, 06:30:32 PM
Hi Misos,
nice image again. How foggy is the windscreen, how can they fly it?
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48(Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!!)
Post by: Markino on January 17, 2013, 02:01:44 PM
Hi Misos,
many thanks for the pictures!!! They are fantastic and very useful!!  :) :) :)
On this page also http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/lagg3/3gviap/3gviap.html there ere several pictures about the upperside main wings showing the white distemper camouflage.
It is a pity that the red 35 are only a picture.... However I think that the pictures I posted about Aviaskin red 35 is very close to the real one; this is the link for IL-2 Shturmovik  red 35 skin: http://aviaskins.com/downloadskin.aspx?id=749&lang=en
maybe they based the skin by other informations... Would be interesting to know how, but unfortunately I don't know russian to write to Ivan750 and are not his email address...

Shortly I will post new photos of my LaGG, finally I closed the fuselages... Many thanks again! Ciao!

MArco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48(Red 35 profile by Aviaskins..)
Post by: 66misos on January 17, 2013, 03:10:23 PM
Hi Marco,

I worked on my LaGG-3 yesterday - painting white blotches. During "table" accident it crashed down and landing gears are broken. So again I have something to repair :'(

regards,
     66misos


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48(Red 35 profile by Aviaskins..)
Post by: learstang on January 17, 2013, 05:46:21 PM
Marco, I look forward to photographs of your LaGG-3, and 66misos, too bad about the crash-landing.  I know how that feels, especially when you're finishing up a model.

Regards,

Jason


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48(Red 35 profile by Aviaskins..)
Post by: Markino on January 18, 2013, 11:53:55 AM
Misos I am sorry for the damage on your LaGG but I am sure you will repair it very well!  :)

Jason don't worry. I will post photograps in the next days... ;)

Ciao!

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48(New progress...)
Post by: Markino on January 18, 2013, 12:07:22 PM
Well, I advance the time, following some shots of details and fuselages before closing them.
Comments and suggestions are always welcome!

(http://imageshack.us/a/img836/752/188pavimentobarraepedal.jpg)

(http://imageshack.us/a/img254/4476/189collimatore.jpg)

(http://imageshack.us/a/img823/3780/190fusolieradxconpartic.jpg)

(http://imageshack.us/a/img690/5210/191bilanciereinternoequ.jpg)

(http://imageshack.us/a/img594/520/192fusolieasxconpartico.jpg)

(http://imageshack.us/a/img560/3604/193fusolierasxconpartic.jpg)

(http://imageshack.us/a/img10/7623/194radiatoreolio.jpg)

(http://imageshack.us/a/img706/9886/195ordinata12perruotadi.jpg)

(http://imageshack.us/a/img341/5461/196fusolierepronteperch.jpg)

Ciao!

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48(New progress on pag. 11...)
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on January 18, 2013, 01:26:16 PM
Impressive! It's even a pity to close it.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48(New progress on pag. 11...)
Post by: B_Realistic on January 18, 2013, 03:21:44 PM
Marco,

Very nice. :D
Maybe create more depth in it by painting shadows and some highlights.
Otherwise I think that you won't see much of all the detail you've made.

Michel


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48(New progress on pag. 11...)
Post by: Markino on January 18, 2013, 04:14:46 PM
Hi guys, thanks for your comments  :)!
Massimo at this time fuselages are already closed, ready for putting... I work on main wing also. Next time new update on this both parts.

@Michel: Shadow and highlight are already done, but I don't force the hand too with this techniques because I think would be appear too pretended (I hope you understand that I mean, I translate an Italian way of saying...).
But you're right, let will see very little of internal details.... :-\ But I love to know they are in... :).

Ciao!

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48(New progress on pag. 11...)
Post by: 66misos on January 18, 2013, 05:13:59 PM
Hi Marco,
it is fantastic. Level of details  :o
I like overall shapes of LaGG-3 more and more. This will be nice in 1:32. At least your effort on interior will better visible after everything is glued together  ;)
Happy modelling.

Regards,
    66misos


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48(New progress on pag. 11...)
Post by: Markino on January 22, 2013, 03:52:48 PM
Hi 66misos,
thanks for your comments. I hope to have a little more free time to dedicate it and accelerate the times....

Ciao!

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48(COOPER DETAILS: where can I purchase ?..)
Post by: Markino on March 06, 2013, 12:30:27 PM
Hello guys, anybody know where can I purchase COOPER DETAILS resin sets? I should purchase the wheels for my endless LaGG-3....

Many Thanks!

Ciao!

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48(COOPER DETAILS: where can I purchase ?..)
Post by: B_Realistic on March 07, 2013, 08:51:13 AM
Marko,

I don't know if you still find those.
Cooper Details from Roy Sutherland has stopped for several years.
He has Barracuda now.
Maybe you can check it and see if those are still available.

http://www.barracudacals.com/

Michel


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Vector 1/48(COOPER DETAILS: where can I purchase ?..)
Post by: Markino on March 07, 2013, 11:31:12 AM
Hello Michel and thanks for your reply!! I mailed Barracuda already but I did not know the holder is the same...

I hope to find it, without need to reproduce they from excellent Zvezda La-5FN wheels...

Stay tuned!  ;)

Ciao!

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3...quite real in flight...
Post by: Markino on August 01, 2013, 11:45:42 AM
Hello guys, I no never forget my LaGG-3 and I go on slowly...unfortunately... :( :(

Below some videos about new Il-2 Stormovick saga, Battle of Stalingrad. I am very glad to see a quite real LaGG-3 in flight... Very amazing!!

Ciao!

Marco

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=c4014tNwcao

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ZndqJ2MKj0g


Title: Re: LaGG-3 quite real...in flight...(pag. 12)
Post by: learstang on August 01, 2013, 06:03:13 PM
Just before I saw this post, I had gotten an e-mail from 1C, the company making this game, and seen the graphics.  Very impressive!  Let's just hope that they get all the VVS colours correct - no brown/green Il-2's, please!

Regards,

Jason


Title: Re: LaGG-3 quite real...in flight...(pag. 12)
Post by: B_Realistic on August 06, 2013, 09:06:39 PM
@Marco
Glad to hear you again. :D
I'm waiting for the end result from your Lagg-3. ::)


Title: Re: LaGG-3 quite real...in flight...(pag. 12)
Post by: Markino on August 09, 2013, 11:08:08 AM
Hello guys, many thanks for your kindly replies  :)..

@Learstang: I love this game and I believe this time the team has made a very good job, but  we will see it when the game will be released.

@B_realistic: never as in this time I had so few time to dedicate at model-making. Many commitments and less and less free time, for the moment, but I no neglected my LaGG-3. I go on even if slowly, but I want to finish it and sooner or later I will do it.

Happy holydays to all, folks!!!

Ciao.

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 quite real...in flight...(pag. 12)
Post by: Markino on April 22, 2014, 12:21:48 PM
Hello guys, well, after a long time with no news on my LaGG, today I update it with new stuff. As I said I have very few time to dedicate to my favourite hobby, but slowly I go on.

Thanks to two of my good friends, Fabio and Sergio, I finally corrected the wing profile; Fabio managed for me a dxf drawing from my corrected drawings table and Sergio worked the kit main wing by a CNC milling machine:

(http://imageshack.com/a/img845/2530/lk4b.jpg)

Then I made several dry fitting to test the wing and the fuselages, now already closed and worked; works on ailerons places are also visible; I prepared also ailerons, propeller's spinner, rudder, and tail elements:

(http://imageshack.com/a/img843/9654/m00m.jpg)

(http://imageshack.com/a/img843/7292/kbjs.jpg)

(http://imageshack.com/a/img834/4333/hyfc.jpg)

(http://imageshack.com/a/img842/3412/hb5c.jpg)

Then I worked the leading edge, rebuilt the landing light in the correct place, and rebuilt also the wing air intakes; I test the wing on the drawing to verify the correct works:

(http://imageshack.com/a/img835/6177/vegb.jpg)

(http://imageshack.com/a/img843/9281/ph9j.jpg)

(http://imageshack.com/a/img841/3245/gf6v.jpg)

About wing air intake: I suppose the red 35 by captain Kostilev was a LaGG-3 4th series from zavod n?23 (IAP 44?), with oval shape wing air intake and the three blades inside them; someone could give me good information about, please?

I Prepared wing air intake for oval shape; the oval shape made by shaped strip, is now only a template. I will remove it when I will stert to rebuilt them:

(http://imageshack.com/a/img835/4581/99yh.jpg)

Obviously if they was not oval shape I will correct it by yours news, if you have.

More about Kostylev red 35: on my research, and as I said above,  I believe this plane was a 4th series built by zavod 23 with 3 machine guns, 2 balance horns on the rudder, retractable tail wheel.
Someone has news about this plane?

Many thanks for all your help. I hope to update you a bit more often.... ;)

Ciao.

Marco



Title: Re: LaGG-3 Habemus a wing....finally...(pag. 12)
Post by: Markino on April 22, 2014, 01:49:14 PM
Some doubts maybe gone....

http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/lagg3/lagg3drawings/lagg3drawings.html

Quote
The most interesting thing about the group of planes with big numerals, such as white 14, 15, 20, 22, 25, 35, 42, 44, are with high probability built at Zavod 23 in Leningrad in Summer 1941, before the factory was evacuated to Novosibirsk. 44 iap
records in summer-autumn 1941 show a lot of peculiarly formatted serial numbers (01100XX) that do not match either Z. 21 or Z. 31 and must belong to Z. 23. All the mentioned planes have a black-green camo as required at that moment, but not matching the standard pattern applied on Z. 21/31, and without the fuselage star. The standard for those Zavod 23 series is 4 guns (2 ShKAS and 2 UB), with the stbd UB gun deleted. This corresponds nicely to the fact that at the same time Gorky was building series 4/5/6/7 that did not have the stbd UB either but did have the horn compensators.

Ciao!

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Habemus a wing....finally...(pag. 12)
Post by: B_Realistic on April 22, 2014, 07:54:25 PM
Marco,

That's been a long time. :D
Great to see some improvements. ::)

Michel


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Habemus a wing....finally...(pag. 12)
Post by: Markino on April 23, 2014, 10:34:10 AM
Hi Michel, many thanks  :).

Do you have informations about shape of  wing air intakes?

Another thing: I saw Imageschak.com, the site I use to put LaGG-3 pictures, become surcharges apply, so I am looking for a free images sharing website, do you know any, please?

Ciao!

Marco



Title: Re: LaGG-3 Habemus a wing....finally...(pag. 12)
Post by: 66misos on April 23, 2014, 11:58:09 AM
Hi Marco,
You could try www.photobucket.com for free image sharing.

regards,
       66misos


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Habemus a wing....finally...(pag. 12)
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on April 23, 2014, 12:22:41 PM
Hi Marco,
impressive work indeed.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Habemus a wing....finally...(pag. 12)
Post by: Markino on April 23, 2014, 04:37:54 PM
Hello Massimo and 66misos, thanks for your comments.

What can you tell me about wing air intakes? Oval or different shape? I'm pawing the ground to continue but I would like to avoid to be wrong something... ;)

Ciao!

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Habemus a wing....finally...(pag. 12)
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on April 24, 2014, 07:44:29 AM
Hi Marco,
it's a lot of time that I did my work on LaGGs and I don't remember well, but much depends on what plane you want to build. I think that the front views should be reliable, if you have identified the version.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Habemus a wing....finally...(pag. 12)
Post by: Markino on April 24, 2014, 11:18:19 AM
Hi Massimo, as I said several post before I wish to realize the Kostylev's  red 35. By documentation I could  see I believe it was:

  • LaGG-3 (4th series most probably)
  • built by Zavod 23 in Leningrad then in Novosibirsk
  • 3 machine guns; starboard UBS was deleted
  • 2 balance horn on the rudder
  • retractable tail wheel

This is my main resource for these considerations: http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/lagg3/lagg3drawings/lagg3drawings.html  ;)

Quote
The most interesting thing about the group of planes with big numerals, such as white 14, 15, 20, 22, 25, 35, 42, 44, are with high probability built at Zavod 23 in Leningrad in Summer 1941, before the factory was evacuated to Novosibirsk. 44 iap
records in summer-autumn 1941 show a lot of peculiarly formatted serial numbers (01100XX) that do not match either Z. 21 or Z. 31 and must belong to Z. 23. All the mentioned planes have a black-green camo as required at that moment, but not matching the standard pattern applied on Z. 21/31, and without the fuselage star. The standard for those Zavod 23 series is 4 guns (2 ShKAS and 2 UB), with the stbd UB gun deleted. This corresponds nicely to the fact that at the same time Gorky was building series 4/5/6/7 that did not have the stbd UB either but did have the horn compensators.

As I said I wish to compare my assumptions with someone with more or different informations about this plane.

Many thanks for your help!

Ciao!

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Habemus a wing....finally...(pag. 12)
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on April 24, 2014, 12:24:08 PM
Hi Marco,
as you know, all what I know or suppose on this plane is here:
http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/lagg3/44iap/red35.html (http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/lagg3/44iap/red35.html)
If you have reasons to think that it should be corrected, please let me know.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Habemus a wing....finally...(pag. 12)
Post by: KL on April 24, 2014, 08:28:23 PM
Some suspicious information about 44 iap LaGG-3s:  ???
Quote
Василий Алексеенко, Михаил Никольский
ЛаГГ-З 1 -и серии имелись на вооружении 44-го ИАП Ленинградского фронта

Quote
"Истребитель ЛаГГ-3." /М.В. Орлов, Н.В. Якубович/
В Ленинградском военном округе к 22 июня имелось 15 ЛаГГ-3, на которые переучивался летный состав 44-го иап. Видимо, это были машины производства завода № 23, ранее выпускавшего легкие самолеты. Переход к производству более сложного ЛаГГ-3 не мог не отразиться на качестве техники, а после начала войны положение усугубилось тем, что сдаточные испытания стали проводить по сокращенной программе.

IMHO more reliable information about about 44 iap LaGG-3s on wikipedia (from http://allaces.ru/cgi-bin/s2.cgi/sssr/struct/p/iap44.dat ):
Quote
По состоянию на 22 июня 1941 года находился в составе ВВС РККА, базировался в Ропше, имея на вооружении 64 самолета И-16, И-153 (в том числе 10 неисправных) при 66 экипажах, сведённых в четыре эскадрильи (одна на И-153, три на И-16) С конца июня 1941 года начал осваивать на аэродроме Горелово самолёты МиГ-3 [1]

Передан в июле 1941 года в распоряжение войск противовоздушной обороны страны.

С 7 июля 1941 года полк был включен в состав 7-го авиакорпуса ПВО и вплоть до преобразования в гвардейский (да и потом, будучи гвардейским) осуществлял прикрытие Ленинграда с воздуха, вылетал на прикрытие наземных войск, штурмовку батарей, укреплений и войск противника.

В конце июля 1941 года потерял большую часть своих самолётов, включая поступишие МиГ-3 на аэродроме в Ропше в результате налёта десяти Bf-110 [2] вероятнее всего из 2-й группы 210-й эскадры скоростных бомбардировщиков ?Hornissen? (II/SKG 210)

27 августа 1941 года пятёркой МиГ-3 вылетал на штурмовой удар по железнодорожным эшелонам, скопившимся на станции Любань.

Осенью 1941 года рассматривалася вариант размещения полка на Дворцовой площади, с перенесением Александровской колонны и вырубкой Адмиралтейского сада для устройства аэродрома, однако от идеи отказались и полк был размещён на аэродроме Сосновка.[3]

С ноября 1941 года задействован в том числе и на охране коммуникаций, проходящих по Ладожскому озеру. Получил истребители ЛаГГ-3. На 12 декабря 1941 года базируется в Манушкино, Парголово, Касимово, имея в наличии 20 ЛаГГ-3 (7 неисправных) и 27 лётчиков

Conclusion - 44 iap was equipped with LaGG-3s in autumn 1941.  It most likely received late Zavod 23 LaGG-3s with reduced armament (1 UBS instead of 2).

On the other hand, 44 iap discussed above was an Air Force unit and Kostilyev was a Navy pilot! He flew and fought in the 5 iap VVS KBF.  This unit received LaGG-3s in August 1941 - most likely early Zavod 23 LaGG-3s armed with 2 UBS machine guns.  So, 5 iap VVS KBF received LaGG-3s 2-3 months before the 44 iap. This contradicts Massimo's "Kostylev's red 35" hypothesis:

Quote
Very few is visible of his winter camouflaged LaGG-3, but the red number 35 has the same style of those seen on 44 IAP aircrafts, and this allow to consider it as a winter variant of those aircrafts, and to extrapolate a likely camo scheme.
It's possible that this aircraft was the same white 35 of 44 IAP appearing on another photo, after having been delivered to another unit; the profile is based on this hypothesis.

HTH,
KL

 


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Habemus a wing....finally...(pag. 12)
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on April 24, 2014, 08:48:40 PM
Hi Konstantin,
this forum is in English language, so please don't post text in Russian without any translation.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Habemus a wing....finally...(pag. 12)
Post by: KL on April 24, 2014, 08:49:57 PM
What can you tell me about wing air intakes? Oval or different shape? I'm pawing the ground to continue but I would like to avoid to be wrong something... ;)

Information on http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/lagg3/lagg3drawings/lagg3drawings.html is the most reliable of the currently available LaGG-3 info.  If you read carefully what are the series and what is written next to the drawings it is clear that all Zavod 23 LaGG-3s had oval wing root intakes.

Third view from above represents early Zavod 23 LaGG-3s armed with 2 UBS mgs
(http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/lagg3/lagg3drawings/LaGG-3pered-1m.jpg)

Top left view represents late Zavod 23 LaGG-3s armed with 1 UBS mgs
(http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/lagg3/lagg3drawings/LaGG-3pered-2m.jpg)

(http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/lagg3/44iap/44iap25f3r.jpg)

(http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/lagg3/44iap/44iapfrontf.jpg)

HTH,
KL


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Habemus a wing....finally...(pag. 12)
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on April 25, 2014, 07:58:59 AM
Hi Konstantin,
Quote
IMHO more reliable information about about 44 iap LaGG-3s on wikipedia (from http://allaces.ru/cgi-bin/s2.cgi/sssr/struct/p/iap44.dat ):
Quote
По состоянию на 22 июня 1941 года находился в составе ВВС РККА, базировался в Ропше, имея на вооружении 64 самолета И-16, И-153 (в том числе 10 неисправных) при 66 экипажах, сведённых в четыре эскадрильи (одна на И-153, три на И-16) С конца июня 1941 года начал осваивать на аэродроме Горелово самолёты МиГ-3 [1]

Передан в июле 1941 года в распоряжение войск противовоздушной обороны страны.

С 7 июля 1941 года полк был включен в состав 7-го авиакорпуса ПВО и вплоть до преобразования в гвардейский (да и потом, будучи гвардейским) осуществлял прикрытие Ленинграда с воздуха, вылетал на прикрытие наземных войск, штурмовку батарей, укреплений и войск противника.

В конце июля 1941 года потерял большую часть своих самолётов, включая поступишие МиГ-3 на аэродроме в Ропше в результате налёта десяти Bf-110 [2] вероятнее всего из 2-й группы 210-й эскадры скоростных бомбардировщиков ?Hornissen? (II/SKG 210)

27 августа 1941 года пятёркой МиГ-3 вылетал на штурмовой удар по железнодорожным эшелонам, скопившимся на станции Любань.

Осенью 1941 года рассматривалася вариант размещения полка на Дворцовой площади, с перенесением Александровской колонны и вырубкой Адмиралтейского сада для устройства аэродрома, однако от идеи отказались и полк был размещён на аэродроме Сосновка.[3]

С ноября 1941 года задействован в том числе и на охране коммуникаций, проходящих по Ладожскому озеру. Получил истребители ЛаГГ-3. На 12 декабря 1941 года базируется в Манушкино, Парголово, Касимово, имея в наличии 20 ЛаГГ-3 (7 неисправных) и 27 лётчиков

Conclusion - 44 iap was equipped with LaGG-3s in autumn 1941.  It most likely received late Zavod 23 LaGG-3s with reduced armament (1 UBS instead of 2).
The text doesn't correspond to the quoted link. Could I know what is the real source, please?

The text speaks of I-16 at the war outbreak, MiG-3s in August and LaGG in November, but doesn't say explicitely that LaGGs were received on that month. Nor that the plane 35 of Kostylev was received in August, in consideration that it was photographed during the winter. More relevant, it says that 44 IAP had more pilots than planes, so it's unlikely they give away one of these.
Anyway, no matter. It is likely that the plane of Kostylev, although photographed in winter,  wasn't the same 35 of 44 IAP, also because its radio mast seems of the shorter type instead of long one. This would mean that the strange numerals were painted in factory and weren't exclusive of 44 IAP. An interesting information anyway.

Regards
Massimo



Title: Re: LaGG-3 Habemus a wing....finally...(pag. 12)
Post by: Markino on April 25, 2014, 12:52:32 PM
Hello guys, many thanks for your explanations!  :)

@ KL: many thanks for your informations. Now I solve the doubts about wing air intake and I go on with oval shape one.

But I am a bit confused regarding what you says about LaGG-3 by plant 23: the early series was with 4 machine guns but no top balance horn on the rudder;

the latest series was with 3 machines guns and they had the top balance horn on the rudder, as visible on Kostylev's plane http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/lagg3/44iap/red35.html.

So, I think Kostylev's plane was, without duobts, with top rudder balance horn and "maybe" with 3 machine gun; considering his plane was with winter camo "maybe" is probable it was a plant 23 late series LaGG-3.

It will be very interesting to compare pictures of planes by the same units, if they exist, to have a more complete ideas about this unit.

Many thanks from your impression and ideas about this discussion!

Ciao!

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Habemus a wing....finally...(pag. 12)
Post by: KL on April 25, 2014, 07:00:16 PM
Drawings posted on http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/lagg3/lagg3drawings/lagg3drawings.html actually show that very little is known about the "early Zavod 23 LaGG-3s".  Remark "predpolozhitelni" by the profile means probable, presumed, most likely.  I couldn't find anywhere how many "early Zavod 23 LaGG-3s" and how many "late Zavod 23 LaGG-3s" were made. Only 65 LaGG-3s were completed before Zavod 23 was evacuated in August 1941.  That is less than 1 serie in Zavod 21...  We are probably talking about 2-3 incomplete series and about very few "early Zavod 23 LaGG-3s".

Some information about the 5 iap VVS KBF is available in Igor Kaberov's memoirs "Swastika in the Gunsight" (translated in English!!!)

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51TYDWD5K1L._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

Kaberov says in this book that 5 iap VVS KBF received LaGG-3s straight from the factory in August 1941. Mind you (see above) that the factory was actually evacuated in August - I was probably wrong in my previous post:  5 iap VVS KBF must have received "late Zavod 23 LaGG-3s"....  and you are safe with 2 balance horns on the rudder and reduced UBS armament!  :)

Is there any particular reason why are you modelling Kostiliev's LaGG-3?

Quote
The text doesn't correspond to the quoted link. Could I know what is the real source, please?

Hi Massimo,
Information about 44 iap PVO is from Wikipedia, as I said in my original post:  http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/44-%D0%B9_%D0%B8%D1%81%D1%82%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%B1%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%B5%D0%BB%D1%8C%D0%BD%D1%8B%D0%B9_%D0%B0%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B0%D1%86%D0%B8%D0%BE%D0%BD%D0%BD%D1%8B%D0%B9_%D0%BF%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%BA_%D0%9F%D0%92%D0%9E  (sorry, it's in Russian)  ;D

BTW, I am finding your questioning as unfair - you are asking for proofs, sources etc, while most of your information is based on b/w photo interpretation or (mostly unreliable) popular literature published in English.     

Regards,
KL


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Habemus a wing....finally...(pag. 12)
Post by: KL on April 26, 2014, 01:10:26 AM
Correction: Kaberov describes how 10 new LaGG-3s were taken from Zavod 21 (Gorkii) in late August 1941.  So, forget Zavod 23 (Leningrad) if you are modelling a 5 iap VVS KBF LaGG-3.
Regards,
KL


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Habemus a wing....finally...(pag. 12)
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on April 26, 2014, 07:34:34 AM
Hi Konstantin:
Quote
IMHO more reliable information about about 44 iap LaGG-3s on wikipedia (from http://allaces.ru/cgi-bin/s2.cgi/sssr/struct/p/iap44.dat ):
Quote
По состоянию на 22 июня 1941 года находился в составе ВВС РККА, базировался в Ропше, имея на вооружении 64 самолета И-16, И-153 (в том числе 10 неисправных) при 66 экипажах, сведённых в четыре эскадрильи (одна на И-153, три на И-16) С конца июня 1941 года начал осваивать на аэродроме Горелово самолёты МиГ-3 [1]

Передан в июле 1941 года в распоряжение войск противовоздушной обороны страны.

С 7 июля 1941 года полк был включен в состав 7-го авиакорпуса ПВО и вплоть до преобразования в гвардейский (да и потом, будучи гвардейским) осуществлял прикрытие Ленинграда с воздуха, вылетал на прикрытие наземных войск, штурмовку батарей, укреплений и войск противника.

В конце июля 1941 года потерял большую часть своих самолётов, включая поступишие МиГ-3 на аэродроме в Ропше в результате налёта десяти Bf-110 [2] вероятнее всего из 2-й группы 210-й эскадры скоростных бомбардировщиков ?Hornissen? (II/SKG 210)

27 августа 1941 года пятёркой МиГ-3 вылетал на штурмовой удар по железнодорожным эшелонам, скопившимся на станции Любань.

Осенью 1941 года рассматривалася вариант размещения полка на Дворцовой площади, с перенесением Александровской колонны и вырубкой Адмиралтейского сада для устройства аэродрома, однако от идеи отказались и полк был размещён на аэродроме Сосновка.[3]

С ноября 1941 года задействован в том числе и на охране коммуникаций, проходящих по Ладожскому озеру. Получил истребители ЛаГГ-3. На 12 декабря 1941 года базируется в Манушкино, Парголово, Касимово, имея в наличии 20 ЛаГГ-3 (7 неисправных) и 27 лётчиков

Quote
Hi Massimo,
Information about 44 iap PVO is from Wikipedia, as I said in my original post:  http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/44-%D0%B9_%D0%B8%D1%81%D1%82%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%B1%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%B5%D0%BB%D1%8C%D0%BD%D1%8B%D0%B9_%D0%B0%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B0%D1%86%D0%B8%D0%BE%D0%BD%D0%BD%D1%8B%D0%B9_%D0%BF%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%BA_%D0%9F%D0%92%D0%9E  (sorry, it's in Russian)  Grin

BTW, I am finding your questioning as unfair - you are asking for proofs, sources etc, while most of your information is based on b/w photo interpretation or (mostly unreliable) popular literature published in English.
     


It is not the same source. There is not the line marked in red, for example. Please admit that the link was wrong, instead of being righteous.
My sources aren't only popular English literature. I have contacts with correspondants in the ex-SSSR area that keep me informed and look at my works. They always made this with competence and never with arrogance.
You have always asked proofs to other people. Now can't I ask you, after you have affirmed that what I wrote is wrong?
Wrong? Well, it is very likely, but not for the reasons you have written. It is unrelevant to know what unit received its planes first, if in summer or autumn, when the plane of Kostylev was photographed in winter 1941/42 or later. There was all time to receive further planes from different factories.
Now let's compare two photos of planes numbered 35:

(http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/lagg3/44iap/red35fr.jpg)
the plane of Kostylev,

(http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/lagg3/44iap/44iap35-44fr.jpg)
plane 35 of 44 IAP.

Well, apart for the camo, the difference seems to be the height of the mast, that is high for the plane of 44 IAP and low for the other one.
But look at the digits: for all what I can see, they have the same shape. It can't be casual: they came out from the same stencil. This stencil can be at the unit or at the factory. So there has to be some connection between these planes even if they aren't the same one.

Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Habemus a wing....finally...(pag. 12)
Post by: 66misos on April 26, 2014, 08:20:41 AM
Massimo,
the second digit on Kostylev's plane does not look like "5". Its top left part is sharp tip, different from top right part of "3" on the same plane as well as different from "5" on the next photo with "35".
Regards,
    66misos


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Habemus a wing....finally...(pag. 12)
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on April 26, 2014, 09:26:07 AM
Hi Misos,
can be. What do you suggest as an alternative? 37? I haven't photos of 7 made with the same style.
At this point, one could look for textual sources on Kostylev himself.

Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Habemus a wing....finally...(pag. 12)
Post by: 66misos on April 26, 2014, 11:57:39 AM
Hi Massimo,
it can be different digit, or it can be "5" but different font. Something similar to this:
(http://www.virtualpilots.fi/hist/kuvat/ww2history-kyostikarhila-lagg3.jpg)

 regards,
    66misos


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Habemus a wing....finally...(pag. 12)
Post by: Markino on April 26, 2014, 06:14:08 PM
Hello guys, many thanks for all your replies and explanations. I hope there are no quarrels for this discussion, ok?  ;).

Kostantin, the only reason for my choice about Kostylev's red 35  is that I like this camo, black and green with white distemper, with strange and big number. No other reason for this. I know this camo would be almost hypothetical, but as I said several post before, examining pictures of similar planes with strange numbers, IMHO, is most probable this plane was delivered by plant 23.

I don't built it by force but from several part on the web, also in Russians sites, for what I could understand, even with the automatic translator, I saw that Massimo's Kostylev red 35 is a most probable interpretation.
In other part also, this profile has taken as the most probable; the new flight simulator, BoS (Battle of Stalingrad) has the same profile for the LaGG-3 4th series; they had done a great research for their models. Many of they are Russians.
You are right and I am agree with you when you said there is no pictures about this plane, but for this reason I have to ask for information.

I hope this discussion will shed light on this plane...and his pilot... ;).

I hope Russians Massimo's friends could find newest information about....

Ciao!

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Habemus a wing....finally...(pag. 12)
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on April 26, 2014, 06:51:48 PM
Hi Misos,
could be of course, but the costant thickness that can be deducted from the photo of the supposed 35 suggests the same font.
At this point, one could look if the same font can be seen on other unrelated types of planes.
I had a suggestion that it could have been typical of the '30s, but my researches on planes of that period haven't shown that font till now.
Supposing that it's the same font, the image of 35 of 44 IAP gives an idea of how 7 could be: the tops of 3 and 5 are specular; 7 should be similar to 3 because it has the leg on the same side (right) and this would exclude that the second number on the photo is 7.
Obviously it can't be 1,2,3,4,6,8,9,0.  
So my idea is that the plane is not the same of 44 IAP, but it was always a white 35 with the number painted in factory; when they made the winter painting, they overpainted the original white number 35 with red paint, but in non perfect way.
What version could it be? If it's built in Zavod 23 in Leningrad, could be of any serie built before the fall, when the factory was evacuated, compatible with a short mast.

Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Habemus a wing....finally...(pag. 12)
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on April 26, 2014, 06:55:11 PM
Hi Marco,
this is very kind of you.
If anything new should emerge, I'll keep you informed.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Habemus a wing....finally...(pag. 12)
Post by: KL on April 26, 2014, 10:41:08 PM
Hi Massimo and others,
I would suggest we all try less to guess, assume and hypothesis.  Some facts should be taken in account:

-  5 iap VVS KBF and Kostiliev received new LaGG-3s in August 1941 directly from Gorkii Zavod 21.  Those were most likely "standard" Type 4 (although Kaberov mentions 1 cannon, 2 ShKAS and 2 UBS mgs).  Those planes were camouflaged in "standard" 1941 camouflage scheme (with "black half disc", you know what I mean).

- 44 iap PVO received LaGG-3s from Leningrad Zavod 23 in autumn 1941.  Those were definitively camouflaged in "stripes" and had reduced armament (these were known as "late Zavod 23" series)

- In 1941 tactical numbers were drawn in units, never in factories.  Same font was a pure coincidence.

- It is extremely unlikely that Navy and Air Force regiments exchange planes.  Then for a plane to retain its old tactical number in a new unit - unheard of....   


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Habemus a wing....finally...(pag. 12)
Post by: 66misos on April 27, 2014, 07:59:11 AM
Hi,
Lavochkin LaGG 3S3 44GvIAP white 20 Leningrad area 1941-02:

http://www.asisbiz.com/il2/LaGG-3/LaGG-3S3-44GvIAP-white-20.html (http://www.asisbiz.com/il2/LaGG-3/LaGG-3S3-44GvIAP-white-20.html)

(http://www.asisbiz.com/il2/LaGG-3/LaGG-3S3-44GvIAP-white-20/images/Lavochkin-LaGG-3S3-44GvIAP-white-20-Leningrad-area-1941-02.jpg)

     66misos


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Habemus a wing....finally...(pag. 12)
Post by: KL on April 27, 2014, 06:58:46 PM
Lavochkin LaGG 3S3 44GvIAP white 20 Leningrad area 1941-02:

44 GvIAP didn't exist...  44 iap PVO became 11 giap in March 1942.


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Habemus a wing....finally...(pag. 12)
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on April 27, 2014, 07:23:55 PM
Hi Konstantin, what you say is true, but take also in account that:
  • both units were in Leningrad area, where Zavod 23 operated in summer and fall before being evacuated (this is a fact);
    the text of Kaberov says that 5 IAP VVS KBF received 10 planes in August from Zavod 21 (this is a fact too); it certainly received further planes in successive months (this is an assumption, but the contrary looks absurd), unclear from which factory (possibly the closer one), in consideration that the photo is certainly dated in winter or after (this is an assumption too, but the contrary looks absurd).
The idea that 35 was one of the 10 planes delivered in August is an assumption  (your, not mine). A possibility, yes.

Another related point is the variety of camo patterns seen in 44 IAP, always related with the font.
Is this variety made in factory? Perhaps, but if so they should be visible in other units too.
Made at the unit? But why? If they received the planes in Autumn, they should be camouflaged in factory. If the datation of the photos is right, those planes should be rather new.

At this point, there are a lot of hypothesis still to check:
1- as already hypotized, the number could be painted in factory; to see if it's true, one has to check the look of other planes built in z.23 in the same period;
2- could be painted at the unit, and the font of Kostylev's plane be a coincidence; in this case, other planes of 5 IAP should show similar fonts;
3- could be painted in some maintenance facility that served both units; if so, it would be independant from the factory and unit; but were the planes of 44 iap already passed for that facility when photographed?
4- the plane was originally of 44 iap that painted the number, then went to a maintenance facility that painted the winter livery on the base of the previous one and then passed it to 5 iap in winter. Being not the same 35 of 44 IAP, one can think that the original number was different: 3x. The first digit was preserved, and the second was repainted according to the wished of the new unit, taking the old font as a reference.

There is another thing in common between 35 and the planes of 44 IAP: if the numbers have the same size and position, there can't be the red star on the fuselage. Not on the usual position and size, unless the numbers are overposed to it. Just as on the planes of 44 IAP. Please check photos of Lavochkins: I don't know other units without the star on the fuselage.

All assumptions, I know. The fact is what we see on the photo: only the canopy and the top of the number, the balance weight and the mast.
The plane isn't the same 35 of the other photo, unless its mast was changed. The plane could be of any variant compatible with the date and short mast, of any factory.
My guess is that it has much in common with the planes of 44 IAP: the font and the absence of the star. If this is casual, I don't know.

Hi Misos,
good photo. The camo pattern appears relatively normal, I mean similar to what was standardized from late 1941 up to 1943. But I can't see any star on the fuselage. I wonder if they were deleted at the unit.
Regards
Massimo



Title: Re: LaGG-3 Habemus a wing....finally...(pag. 12)
Post by: KL on April 28, 2014, 02:39:43 AM
Hi Massimo,
the profile you made and which supposedly represents Kostiliev's LaGG-3 is hypothetical more than it should be:

- Number 35 is hypothetical; it could be 75 or several other combinations involving 3, 5 and 7
- it's hypothetically made in Zavod 23, although we know that Kostiliev's regiment received LaGG-3s from Zavod 21
- it was hypothetically camouflaged the same way as 44 iap PVO planes only because its tactical number is drawn in similar stile to numbers used on 44 iap LaGG-3s

IMHO, unless more information about this plane appears, the profile and all the hypothesis surrounding it are not worth further discussion.

Regards,
KL


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Habemus a wing....finally...(pag. 12)
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on April 28, 2014, 06:54:59 AM
Hi Konstantin,
yes, the profile is widely hypothetical.
Anyway, numbers with 2 digits could arrive up to 99, but lower numbers as 35 are more likely than high numbers as 75, particularly if painted at the unit. The second one is certainly 5 for the resons I've already explained.
The incidence on the pattern of the camouflage is limited to one or two black bands on the nose.

Marco, to tell the truth I've always thought this: after such an huge work of accuratizing, I would choose a more clearly documented plane for your rebuilt model.

Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Habemus a wing....finally...(pag. 12)
Post by: Markino on April 28, 2014, 09:53:39 AM
Hello guys and many thanks for your replies and efforts to have a good idea about Kostylev's red 35.
I am agree with all you, Massimo, KL, Misos66, and I think is not the case to continue with a not clearly documented plane, although very appealing with its camo...
It will be absurd to wrong the final camo and so the whole kit, after a heavy rebuilt work.

So my previous second choice, when I started to built this kit, was white 44: http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/lagg3/44iap/44iap44.html

I think this is a good documented plane. What do you think about?

I am sorry if discussion about Kostylev's plane has some quarrels. I hope this drive in the future to know more info about Kostylev's red 35...

Ciao.

Marco

 


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Habemus a wing....finally...(pag. 12)
Post by: KL on April 28, 2014, 06:21:26 PM
Marco, to tell the truth I've always thought this: after such an huge work of accuratizing, I would choose a more clearly documented plane for your rebuilt model.

I agree with this, that was my message too.  After spending so much time and effort correcting the model you would compromise it with poorly documented camouflage and markings.

So my previous second choice, when I started to built this kit, was white 44: http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/lagg3/44iap/44iap44.html

I think this is a good documented plane. What do you think about?

IMHO, a good choice:  clearly there was a camouflage pattern on 44 iap PVO planes so you may use photos of other planes for some analogies.  Being made by Zavod 23, 44 iap LaGG-3s were also "rare birds"; that will make your model more interesting....   

I am sorry if discussion about Kostylev's plane has some quarrels. I hope this drive in the future to know more info about Kostylev's red 35...

I hope it wasn't a quarrel.  I also hope discussion will help Massimo to improve his work.

Regards,
KL



Title: Re: LaGG-3 Habemus a wing....finally...(pag. 12)
Post by: Markino on April 28, 2014, 07:21:44 PM
Hi KL, many thanks for helping me in choosing a good subject!!   :)

See you soon with new updates of the kit. In this time I am working on wing details; hood; spinner; machine guns.

Ciao!

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Some wing updates (pag. 14)
Post by: Markino on April 30, 2014, 11:10:46 AM
Hello guys, some wing updates:

Wing reinforcement above and below the wing, built by aluminium metal tape and engraving of panel and inspection doors (not much visible):

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/207_Rinforzialarisotto_zpsfd78e68a.jpg)

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/208_Rinforzialarisottodettaglio_zps3487e4b2.jpg)

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/209_Rinforzialarisopra_zps82e56b42.jpg)

And oval wing air intakes with grid:

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/210_Grigliepreseariaalari_zps83172040.jpg)

That's all for now...

Now I proceed with fuselage. Could you confirm, please, planes of zavod 23, IAP 44 was with only 3 machine guns on the engine cowling?

Many thanks. Ciao.

Marco



Title: Re: LaGG-3 Some wing updates (pag. 14)
Post by: KL on May 01, 2014, 06:01:58 AM
Could you confirm, please, planes of zavod 23, IAP 44 was with only 3 machine guns on the engine cowling?

It should be equivalent to Zavod 21 Series 4:
2 ShKAS
1 UBS
1 ShVAK

Regards,
KL


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Some wing updates (pag. 15)
Post by: Markino on May 02, 2014, 07:21:58 PM
Hi KL, many thanks for your reply  :).
I am a bit confuse, here: http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/lagg3/44iap/44iap44.html is write:

Quote
  • 1 UB 12,7 mm mm firing through the propeller shaft;
  • 1 12,7 UB machine gun guns on the left side of the engine cowling, and relative holes on the left side of the cowling;
  • 2  7,62 mm ShKAS machine guns on the engine cowling;

So, if I well understand: 1 machine gun firing through propeller shaft and 3 machine guns firing on engine cowling, it is right?
In this case I must to remove the right front machine gun, right?
Thanks for your patience...

Ciao!

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Some wing updates (pag. 15)
Post by: KL on May 02, 2014, 08:30:48 PM
In the beginning of LaGG-3 production ShVAK cannons were not available.  Because of this shortage first 3 series made by Zavod 21 had UB heavy mg instead of cannon installed between engine blocks.
In summer 1941 factories started to receive and install ShVAK cannons.  At the same time decision was made to lighten the airframe, so one UBS was deleted.  These modification are known in modern literature as "LaGG-3 Series 4".

LaGG-3s made by Zavod 23 in Leningrad in summer 1941 should have been modified in similar way and should have had ShVAK cannons firing through propeller shaft, but photos taken in 44 iap in fall 1941 show that planes have smaller mgs firing through the propeller shaft.

LaGG-3 of the "Zavod 23 last series" completed in Sept 1941 (probably with UB firing through propeller shaft)
(http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/lagg3/44iap/44iap25f1r.jpg)

Zavod 21 LaGG-3 completed in Aug 1941 (probably with ShVAK firing through propeller shaft)
(http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/lagg3/3gviap/3gviap64fr.jpg)

So, after examining the photos, Massimo is probably right - 2 ShKAS, 1UBS and 1 UB firing through propeller shaft
HTH,
KL  


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Some wing updates (pag. 15)
Post by: Markino on May 03, 2014, 02:50:44 PM
Hi Konstantin many thanks for your reply and explanations.....and patience, too... :)!

Ciao!

Marco



Title: Re: LaGG-3 Some wheels bay questions (pag. 15)
Post by: Markino on May 03, 2014, 04:45:58 PM
Hello guys, looking to several pictures I see inside the wheels bay seems to have some reinforcement plates:

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/1001_53_MOD_zpsea64fe23.jpg)

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/1002_60_MOD_zpsb3aa08fe.jpg)

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/1003_61_MOD_zps9d6fa509.jpg)

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/1004_54_MOD_zps5ae6d402.jpg)

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/1005_56_MOD_zpsdf827bd5.jpg)

I sketched my impressions:

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/1006_58_MOD_zpsf2890099.jpg)

What do you think about, please? Do you have some informations about? They was standard or a sort of field reparations?

Many thanks for your impressions! Ciao!

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Some wheels bay questions (pag. 15)
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on May 03, 2014, 07:11:53 PM
Hi Marco,
it is regular enough to be considered a constructive characteristic. I think that there is a manual of LaGG-3 somewhere in the web. I don't think that they reinforce anything, but close access to somerthing.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Some wheels bay questions (pag. 15)
Post by: Markino on May 05, 2014, 11:58:54 AM
Hi Massimo, thanks for your reply. I have several manual about LaGG-3 and some parts of technical manuals, totally almost 2,9 GB of documentation, but I have no found informations for these inspection doors, me too think this was the real purpose of this doors.

Looking on the web for this items, with words "шасси ЛаГГ-3" (LaGG-3 landing gear), I have seen some other identical discussions, but not explanation about or technical reference as manuals or catalogue of parts.

I hope some members could to have documentation about.

Ciao.

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Some wheels bay questions (pag. 15)
Post by: Markino on May 08, 2014, 01:42:23 PM
Hello guys, does anyone have ideas about inspection doors in the wheels bay?

Ciao!

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Some wheels bay questions (pag. 15)
Post by: Markino on May 21, 2014, 06:40:52 PM
Hello folks, I have built some new item on the LaGG:

The template used to create by splitting the external plastic of  1 mm electrical wire the leather protection of the cockpit edge and the cockpit edge leather protection glued; exhaust stacks protection plates also reproduced by adhesive aluminium tape:

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/211_Attrezzaturapertaglioprotezioneabitacolo_zpse82eaad8.jpg)

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/212_Incollaggioprotezioneabitacolo1_zpse6825872.jpg)

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/213Incollaggioprotezioneabitacolo2_zps2d97c0cf.jpg)

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/214Incollaggioprotezioneabitacolo3_zpse53e494e.jpg)

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/215_Protezioneabitacolo1_zpsde5d0011.jpg)

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/216_Protezioneabitacolo2_zpsa10d2040.jpg)

The drain pipes into the wheels bay, made by  syringe needles gauge G31 (0,25 mm external diameter):

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/217_Tubettodrenaggiopozzetticarrello_zps1077c558.jpg)

The inspection doors inside the wheels bay, as I discussed previous time, reproduced by adhesive papaer:

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/218_Portelliispezionepozzetticarrello1_zps586d8bc9.jpg)

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/219_Portelliispezioneportellicarrello2_zps0620885d.jpg)

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/220_Portelliispezionepozzetticarrello3_zps879519b3.jpg)

Comments and suggestions always well accepted!!

Ciao!

Marco




Title: Re: LaGG-3 Little updates on cockpit and wheel bay (pag. 15)
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on May 22, 2014, 07:03:53 AM
Hi Marco,
impressive work as always.
The idea of a plastic template to cut the insulation is very interesting.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Little updates on cockpit and wheel bay (pag. 15)
Post by: Markino on May 29, 2014, 06:23:05 PM
Ciao Massimo, yes this is the kit of templates & special equipments... and it's not ended yet....sob! :(

Ciao!

Marco



Title: Re: LaGG-3 Little updates on cockpit and wheel bay (pag. 15)
Post by: learstang on May 29, 2014, 06:26:46 PM
Amazing work on that cockpit, Marco! Bellissima!

Regards,

Jason


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Little updates on cockpit and wheel bay (pag. 15)
Post by: B_Realistic on June 01, 2014, 09:50:32 AM
Marco,

Impressive build.
Great to see this one finished.
You're a Master.

Michel


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Little updates on cockpit and wheel bay (pag. 15)
Post by: Markino on June 19, 2014, 07:13:21 PM
Hello guys, many thanks for your appreciation. Not a master....just a foolish.. ;)

Ciao!

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 Spinner and propeller (pag. 16)
Post by: Markino on July 08, 2014, 12:49:37 PM
Hello guys, I realized some little update on the LaGG, propeller and spinner. I have made them by coaxial brass pipes to have a propeller really spins.

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/221_Alberoelicaeogiva_zpscd9d7591.jpg)

The transparent disk, made by acetate give a gap between fuselage and propeller. When it will get out the propeller will have a little gap to spin.

Spinner, shaft and propeller blades.

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/222_Ogivaepaleelica_1_zps4fa95faf.jpg)

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/223_Ogivaepaleelica_2_zps68d01624.jpg)

Some dry tests to verify before set all.

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/224_Elicainposizione_1_zps1e75a687.jpg)

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/225_Elicainposizione_2_zps532dcd55.jpg)

Before set the propeller I must to rebuild the little mouth in front of oil cooler, then I can assemble the propeller; unfortunately I wrong the first attempt to rebuild it and I made it too wide.... After I will ready to assemble the wing and the fuselage.

Stay tuned for next updates... ;). Ciao!!

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga...a pair of wings (pag. 16)
Post by: Markino on September 10, 2014, 06:05:45 PM
Hi guys, work has continued and now the eternal LaGG also has a pair of wings that give it a certain aeronautic appearance, not bad for the subject ...

The template used to put to measure the wing with the fuselage:

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/226_Dimaperdistanzaala-fusoliera1_zps186d3079.jpg)

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/227_Dimaperdistanzaala-fusoliera2_zpsf66edc45.jpg)

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/228_Dimaperdistanzaala-fusoliera3_zpsa762bd49.jpg)

Main wing glued:

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/229_Incollaggioala_zps05af30a0.jpg)

Puttied wing, with sanded carburetor air intakes in right form:

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/230_Ala_zps58c5e491.jpg)

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/231_Ala2_zps18878d7c.jpg)

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/232_Ala3_zps050fc711.jpg)

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/233_Ala4_zps0dfd6a17.jpg)

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/234_Ala5_zps5b2e3a1f.jpg)

The belly side of the wing, with the water cooler duct  almost finished:

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/235_Condottoradiatore_zpse25dfb27.jpg)

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/236_Condottoradiatore2_zpsc745959a.jpg)

Some dry tests of the water cooler:

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/237_Radiatoreproveasecco_zpsd2aaea4b.jpg)

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/238_Radiatoreproveasecco2_zpsfec557ac.jpg)

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/239_Radiatoreproveasecco3_zpse68587fe.jpg)

That's all for now, see you soon with further developments. Stay tuned!

Comments and suggestions are always welcome.

Ciao!

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga...a pair of wings (pag. 16)
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on September 10, 2014, 08:35:11 PM
Ciao Marco,
I'm very impressed for the work put on this model. I would say that this is not a good publicity for the kit. I hope to see the model finished now that the most of the hard work is done.
What have you chosen for the painting?
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga...a pair of wings (pag. 16)
Post by: learstang on September 11, 2014, 07:13:33 AM
Great work, Marco - the water cooler looks good!

Regards,

Jason


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga...a pair of wings (pag. 16)
Post by: 66misos on September 11, 2014, 12:10:15 PM
Hi Marco,
your attention given to "hardware" is really impressive. I am really curious for the finished kit.
Regards,
   66misos


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga...a pair of wings (pag. 16)
Post by: Markino on September 11, 2014, 07:21:02 PM
Hello guys, thanks for the comments and for the encouragement  :)! Slowly but inexorably the LaGG go on.

Next step is the external part of the water cooler duct, as done for the internal one several pages before...

@Massimo: after the debate on the Kostylev's red 35 I turn my interest for the white 44 of the IAP 44. Surely I will stress you about this livery... ;).

Quote
I would say that this is not a good publicity for the kit
Yes Massimo, this is the worst kit I ever built.... But the worst thing is the reviews I was read about this kit, found on internet and made by users of emblazoned modelers sites. This kit, and several other by the same producer, was reviewed as the ultimate kit about russians fighters.
This kit are dinky only but not accurate about dimensions and shapes....
Everyone decides where and how to spend money... My money are end for this kind of kit...
Obviously all comments above are very very IMHO.


Stay tuned! Ciao!!

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga...fresh water for the LaGG (pag. 16)
Post by: Markino on November 15, 2014, 11:42:08 AM
Hello guys, here some new upgrade for the LaGG. I realized the water cooler duct by vacuum technique, as for the past internal part of the part.

I realized a  wood master:

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/240_Masterpercondottoradiatoreacqua_zpse0373bd5.jpg)

Then I check it whit a dedicated template:

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/241_Provamasteredimaprofilo_zps5f8097db.jpg)

The vacuum result and the items used:

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/242_Termoformatora_zpsed934b8e.jpg)

Some dry tests with new vacuum duct, water cooler and plane to determine the right position of all parts:

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/243_Proveaseccoconradiatore1_zps6fb902d8.jpg)

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/244_Proveaseccoconradiatore2_zps4052cabe.jpg)

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/245_Proveaseccoconradiatore3_zps752205f2.jpg)

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/246_Proveaseccoconradiatore4_zps2b3bcb50.jpg)

Now I must to decide what  internal color for the water cooler duct. I need your help to do that. What your opinion about internal color?
Silver as internal cockpit or AII blue as for undersurfaces?

Thanks for all your help!

Ciao!

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga...fresh water for the LaGG (pag. 16)
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on November 15, 2014, 12:37:45 PM
Hi Marco,
great work. But what type of clear plasic is it? Won't it give difficulties in gluing and sanding?
I suppose that the inside of the air intake is medium grey, A-14. Probably the first part of the duct is light blue, up to where an airbrush can reach.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga...fresh water for the LaGG (pag. 16)
Post by: Markino on November 15, 2014, 03:58:13 PM
Hi Massimo, many thanks for your reply and medium grey A-14 suggestion. I forgot the use of A-14 for metal parts...

I don't know the exact name of the plastic (maybe PVC), I bought it in a Brico market. It was sold in square meters and it was very cheap; it is used to cover greenhouse, it is very useful for vacuum technique and is possible to glue it by two-component adhesive. The classic styrene it is too expansive for these purposes. To produce a good piece I mold 3 or 4 times and for each molded I need almost an entire  A4 sheet. Evergreen sheets are too expansive in comparison to PVC.

Ciao!

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga...fresh water for the LaGG (pag. 16)
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on November 16, 2014, 11:08:20 AM
Hi Marco,
PVC is a very stable plastic, but beware the toxic fumes, should it go on fire. They would contain Cl2 and COCl2.
By the way, having the gear and experience to make vacuform pieces, couldn't you make some pieces and accessories of general interest, if someone offers a master?
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga...fresh water for the LaGG (pag. 16)
Post by: Markino on November 17, 2014, 10:15:57 PM
Hi Massimo, yes, I know PVC hazardous, I use a gas mask with filters for fumes and powders.

For vacuum-formed pieces I can to do that. My vacuum machine work area is 125x100 mm. I suggest master not have heavy undercuts. Otherwise I must to cut the vacuum part to remove the master. Usually I use PVC with thickness of 0,7 mm and 0,4 mm. Keep in mind the thickness will reduce after vacuum.
Let me know what you wish to vacuum and I'll see to do it  ;).

Ciao.

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga...fresh water for the LaGG (pag. 16)
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on November 18, 2014, 06:05:57 AM
Hi Marco,
it looks really you're building a prototype, not a model! I'm impressed for your methods.
About vacuforming: I was thinking to canopies, and maybe to a copy of the spinner of a good Il-2 (Tamiya or Eduard) to improve kits as Academy and AM.  I've still to check if aftermarket sets exist and would be cheaper, though.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga...fresh water for the LaGG (pag. 16)
Post by: Markino on November 18, 2014, 07:00:50 PM
Hi Massimo, for canopies I agree with you, next time, I hope non veeery next time, I will make the canopy for the LaGG, to realize by vacuum technique.

For the spinner I think vacuum method is not a good way. Is not very easy to hit the correct shape and mainly the correct dimension. Keep in mind that details as lines, plates, rivets, bolts and so on are not easy to reproduce by vacuum; probably you should to make they in a second time. If I were to reproduce it, I do that on a lathe machine. By a CNC lathe and a bit of manuality you could get it perfect. Then, with this master, you should make a mold for resin reproducing.
When I worked as die maker (or mold maker, "stampista" in Italian but I don't know the correct translating, I apologise  :-[) I realized for myself several parts, as oxygen bottles, landing gear struts, fuel tank (this last by EDM machine..).
Do you have  some metalworker friend? Would be very simple, with a template to check the profile is not hard to reproduce a correct shape...

Have you take in count this? : http://www.ultracast.ca/products/Vector/48%20Scale/VDS48-026/default.htm

Yes, I know, it is Vector made  but maybe not all Vector's production are as my LaGG. Maybe it should to have a Vector's IL-2 spinner to measure it and decide if it is adequate.

If you have some master for canopies let me know and we will see to do that! I am glad to help you or some mates.

Ciao.

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga...fresh water for the LaGG (pag. 16)
Post by: learstang on November 18, 2014, 10:54:18 PM
The Vector Il-2 spinner is definitely superior to the Accurate Miniatures example and appears to be accurate in shape. The AM spinner is much too rounded.

Regards,

Jason


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga...fresh water for the LaGG (pag. 16)
Post by: Markino on November 19, 2014, 07:00:25 PM
Hi Jason, yes, you're right. For a good job it should be measured, but it seem very nice.

Ciao.

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga...fresh water for the LaGG (pag. 16)
Post by: Markino on July 21, 2015, 07:24:02 PM
Hi folks! Well....less and less free time but never left!  ;)

Some pictures of the updates.

I puttied the radiator ... and not only that, but a good chunk of the fuselage! Too noticeable the dip of the previous filling, of which I had not noticed before ...

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/247_Radiatore%20stuccato%201_zpsxxpugfpy.jpg)

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/248_Radiatore%20stuccato%202_zpsbdrfsdvt.jpg)

In the same time I started the build of hood and windshield templates which I will use next for a vac-u-form copy of them....

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/249_Dima%20per%20tettuccio%201_zpsdj0ckgtl.jpg)

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/250_Dima%20per%20tettuccio%202_zpsriqjz3yx.jpg)

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/251_Dima%20per%20tettuccio%203_zpsy0uqsxfq.jpg)

future updates on these channels .... who knows when .... :-\

Ciao!

Marco





Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga...some little steps (pag. 17)
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on July 21, 2015, 09:34:21 PM
Hi Marco,
impressive work, as usual. It will be interesting to see it completed aside an out of box LaGG-3.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga...some little steps (pag. 17)
Post by: Markino on July 28, 2015, 11:48:32 AM
Hi Massimo, thanks for your reply. Me too will be interested to compare the kits...mainly because in this case my LaGG should be ended!  ;) ;)

Ciao.

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga...some little steps (pag. 17)
Post by: Markino on November 24, 2015, 08:26:46 PM
Hi guys, some new fatures to my LaGG-3: tail, rudder and ailerons.

I must to modify the tail for better arrangement in position and shape:

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/252_Modifica%20piani%20di%20coda%201_zpsx3emihcj.jpg)

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/253_Modifica%20piani%20di%20coda%202_zpsvzessa7n.jpg)

The jig to set correctly the stabilizer:

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/254_dima%20montaggio%20stabilizzatori%201_zpsj8uyhvlj.jpg)

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/255_dima%20montaggio%20stabilizzatori%202_zpswhdlenjr.jpg)

Ailerons, elevators and rudder:

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/256_Alettoni%20equilibratori%20e%20timone%201_zpshvs1ebpi.jpg)

It looks more and more to a LaGG-3.... :o

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/257_Alettoni%20equilibratori%20e%20timone%202_zpsw45ffdtm.jpg)

Bottom side of elevators and trims actuators:

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/258_Alettoni%20equilibratori%20e%20timone%203_zpsyrqtwq3u.jpg)

Next steps will be windshield and water cooler frontal interior deflector. The windshield it is giving me a lot of headaches for its construction.... It is not so simple. I hope to get a good ideas for its scratchbuild....

Stay tuned!  ;)

Ciao.

Marco



Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga...tail, ailerons, rudder & elevators (pag. 17)
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on November 25, 2015, 08:17:59 AM
Hi Marco,
impressive work indeed. The method to support and locate parts is very interesting.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga...tail, ailerons, rudder & elevators (pag. 17)
Post by: Markino on November 25, 2015, 07:32:03 PM
Hi Massimo, yes this is the kit of the thousands of jigs....  I made jigs for everything: fuselage, wings, tail....and I have not finished yet....:o

Ciao!

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga...tail, ailerons, rudder & elevators (pag. 17)
Post by: learstang on November 25, 2015, 09:34:37 PM
Nice job on the tail planes, Marco!

Regards,

Jason


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga...tail, ailerons, rudder & elevators (pag. 17)
Post by: Markino on December 02, 2015, 07:43:41 PM
Hi Jason, many thanks for your reply and many thanks to all for the encouragement!!

Ciao!

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga...tail, ailerons, rudder & elevators (pag. 17)
Post by: Markino on December 16, 2015, 06:25:56 PM
Hi guys, when I will end the LaGG I wish to reproduce the white 44 of the 44 IAP as per Masimo Tessitori table about this airplane: http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/lagg3/44iap/44iap44.html

Could you confirm undersurfaces parts was  light blue AII, please? I will use the White Ensign Models AII blue for WW2 Soviet VVS. You think is a good color or there are others better?

Many thanks for you replies!

Ciao!

Marco



Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga...tail, ailerons, rudder & elevators (pag. 17)
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on December 16, 2015, 09:01:42 PM
Hi Marco,
I'm reasonably sure about the use of AII blue. I don't know how is the paint of White ensign Model.
Ciao
Massimo


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga...tail, ailerons, rudder & elevators (pag. 17)
Post by: Apex1701 on December 17, 2015, 05:31:41 AM
Hi Markino,

Nice work on your Lagg.

Here's what Colourcoat paints look like.
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e136/Apex1701/Scale%20models/DSCF1091.jpg) (http://s38.photobucket.com/user/Apex1701/media/Scale%20models/DSCF1091.jpg.html)

(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e136/Apex1701/Scale%20models/DSCF1093.jpg) (http://s38.photobucket.com/user/Apex1701/media/Scale%20models/DSCF1093.jpg.html)
This South Front Lagg was built around 2007, in my Pilawski period using Colourcoats enamels.
It's painted in Colourcoat AII Green, AII/AMT Black over AII Blue.

Hoping this help.

All the best.

Jean


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga...tail, ailerons, rudder & elevators (pag. 17)
Post by: Markino on December 18, 2015, 05:42:33 PM
Hi guys, many thanks for your replies!

Jean beautifull kit! Congratulations! Useful, of course!

My LaGG will have the complete canopy....I will realize it before the hood removing  ;)

You know some match between Blue AII (AKAN 342) and Federal Standard code? Or where can I find some correspondence?

Ciao!

Marco



Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga...tail, ailerons, rudder & elevators (pag. 17)
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on December 18, 2015, 10:05:56 PM
Hi Marco
http://s1.postimg.org/39byynl1qn/image.jpg (http://s1.postimg.org/39byynl1qn/image.jpg)
Orlov gives fs 35526 as approximate match.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga...tail, ailerons, rudder & elevators (pag. 17)
Post by: Markino on December 23, 2015, 06:38:41 PM
Hi Massimo, many thanks for your reply.
 I made some color chips for test with colors I had and I compared them with Federal Standards colors chart.
As shows in picture below neither WEM AII blue nor Humbrol 65  have not match the correct color if compared with blue FS 35526... :(

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/259_prova%20colori_zpsaa4o1vg9.jpg)

Next time I will test with Gunze H67 and Tamiya XF23 (I bought them and I wait they arrive to me by mail) to try to find the color most similar to FS 35526.

In his book Pilawsky gives as closest color FS 35466 (as shows in picture). what is your opinion about it?

Ciao!

Marco





Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga...undersurfaces color tests (pag. 17)
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on December 23, 2015, 07:14:12 PM
Hi Marco,
this is strange, it doesn't resemble to AKAN chip too.
My idea of AII light blue is in the range of 35450 or 35488 (they appear different on my real fs catalogue than on your photo on my screen, that shows them more violet). Orlov describes the color as saturate, not greyish, and this is not consistent with fs 35526. Perhaps he had a wrong chip when he wrote this early article, or a faded one.
Recovered wrecks of early Pe-2s seem to show grey undersurfaces instead of the expected blue A-18f. Perhaps their blue pigments were subject to lose their color.
Pieces of MiG-3s and LaGG-3s  in Veesiveehma appear more greyish than expected for AII blue.
My idea is that the color should be less greenish than 65, a bit darker and a bit more saturate. Of course, I didn't see the real one, but only the AKAN chip.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga...undersurfaces color tests (pag. 17)
Post by: Spitfire on December 24, 2015, 02:27:24 PM
It may not be very helpful but I bought some AKAN enamels and made up some paint chips and then tried to match them to other model paints, in the end I used Xtracolor X601 as it was a very good match for the AKAN paints. Here are my paint chips.
(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z244/DennisMcc/Models/Trumpeter%20MiG-3%20Build/TrumpMiG316_zpsc46e7198.jpg)

Cheers

Dennis


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga...undersurfaces color tests (pag. 17)
Post by: Markino on December 28, 2015, 12:10:45 PM
Hi Dennis and Massimo, many thanks for kindly replies.

@Massimo: thanks for suggestion and informations, I have made some color chips about fs 35450 and fs 35480 with Humbrol colors. At the moment I found in Florence only the Lifecolor colors (UA37 for fs35450 only... :() and the next days I will make a chip with this color also.

@Dennis: very useful color table! I read that AKAN colors are very reliable. But I don't know where can I buy them in Italy or in Europe...Any suggestion about? Which the akan code for the AII blue, please? Maybe n?342? I found this table but it is in russian...
http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/13814-rlm-color-chart-merrick-2004/
If I found a seller for akan colors I could buy AII Green and AII/AMT Black also... What your opinion about akan AII Green, AII/AMT Black?

Many thanks for all your help!

Ciao.

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga...undersurfaces color tests (pag. 17)
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on December 28, 2015, 03:12:39 PM
Hi Marco, yes, it is 342.
Ciao
Massimo


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga...undersurfaces color tests (pag. 17)
Post by: Markino on December 29, 2015, 04:54:47 PM
Thanks Massimo for your prompt reply!

So the AII green is the Akan 318 and for black I could choice AMT-6 Akan 343, right?

Many thanks for your replies!

Ciao!

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga...undersurfaces color tests (pag. 17)
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on December 30, 2015, 08:41:39 AM
Hi,
yes, you can use it, or any one greyish black.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga...undersurfaces color tests (pag. 17)
Post by: Markino on December 30, 2015, 06:22:45 PM
Many thanks Massimo!
I found these colors on Lindenhillimport.com (http://www.lindenhillimports.com/akan.htm) and I asked if they can ship to Italy. Just for information in their website they coding the colors in a different way regarding our discussion. E.g. the AII blue is coded as 63042 (acrylic lacquer paint) or 73042 (aqueous acrylic paint).
Which is the main difference between these two kind of colors?

I hope in a positive reply from LindenHillImport.com  :D.

Ciao!

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga...undersurfaces color tests (pag. 17)
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on December 30, 2015, 08:50:08 PM
Hi Marco,
I don't know well the difference. I suppose that lacquers are based on alcoholic solvants as Tamiya and Gunze, while other paints are based on water as valleyo.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga...undersurfaces color tests (pag. 17)
Post by: Spitfire on January 05, 2016, 06:02:02 PM
I bought my AKAN enamels from these guys
http://www.hobbycolours.com/

Cheers

Dennis


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga...undersurfaces color tests (pag. 17)
Post by: Markino on January 07, 2016, 12:16:27 PM
Hi guys, many thanks for your kindly replies!

@Dennis: could you give me the differences betweeen laquer and enamel, please? Unfortunately my English is not so good to get the differences between these paints.

Ciao!

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga...undersurfaces color tests (pag. 17)
Post by: Spitfire on January 08, 2016, 01:14:47 PM
Hi Marco, here is a nice description from the web

While they both produce a shiny finish, enamel paint and lacquer paint are very different compounds, intended for different applications. Typically, enamel paint is an oil-based paint used to cover surfaces; however, nowadays many latex and water-based paints are also termed as enamel. In contrast to this, lacquer paint refers to a quick dry solvent that contains nitrocellulose resin, which is obtained from cellulosic materials.

The biggest difference between the two types of paint is the solvent. Enamel uses thinner or white spirits and lacquer paint uses lacquer thinner. Enamel paints use a process that allows polymers in the paint to set and bond together so when the paint hardens, it will not soften again. In contrast, lacquer paint dries when the solvent has evaporated and can soften over time.

Hope this helps

Cheers

Dennis


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga...undersurfaces color tests (pag. 17)
Post by: Markino on January 11, 2016, 11:40:59 AM
Hi Dennis, many thanks for your kindly reply. I am waiting that Hobbycolor restock his Akan colors.

Ciao!

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga...undersurfaces color tests (pag. 17)
Post by: Markino on January 25, 2016, 12:40:35 PM
Hi guys, at the moment Hobbycolours store has not restocked yet his laquer  colors (from the begin of the year... :'() and I wish to place a single order for several colours I need.
Do you know other web store for Akan colours? Not LindenHill, I tried to contact them several times for the same colours as Hobbycolours but they did not never reply to my mails.

Ciao|

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga...undersurfaces color tests (pag. 17)
Post by: 66misos on January 25, 2016, 02:35:31 PM
Hi Markino,

try this for AKAN http://hpns.eu.nettihotelli.org/infoEN.html (http://hpns.eu.nettihotelli.org/infoEN.html)

or this for Mr. Paint http://mrpaint.sk/ (http://mrpaint.sk/)
According to what I have read at modelforum.cz these paints have authentic/reliable colors and are excellent for work (already pre-thinned for airbrush).

Regards,
   66misos


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga...undersurfaces color tests (pag. 17)
Post by: Markino on January 26, 2016, 10:43:23 AM
Hi 66misos, many thanks for your reply. I have already ordered the colours from Hobby paint n'stuff! ;).

Ciao!

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga...undersurfaces color tests (pag. 17)
Post by: Markino on February 20, 2016, 11:25:58 AM
I guys, I started to test the Akan's AII blue, very beautiful as colors and sprayable . A quick question: the term "faded" can be considered as the classic "scale effect" (Scale effect reduces the intensity of a color to replicate its appearance to the human eye at different distances)?

Many thanks! Ciao!

Marco

p.s. Maybe the place for this question is in the "colors, schemes & research" category?


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga...undersurfaces color tests (pag. 17)
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on February 21, 2016, 07:55:15 AM
Hi Marco,
in my opinion, scale effect is a way to replicate the diffusion of the light by air interposed between the eye and the object.
It can have some sense for a very small scale, let's say 1/1000, where the look of the model seen from half meter far is comparable to a real thing seen from 500 m far and the diffusion of light by interposed air gives to shadows and darker colors a grey-blue appearance.
For a model in 1/48, the look of the model from half a meter is comparable to that of the real thing from 24 m, too close to have any 'azure veil'.
Fading is another thing, due both from a decay of a pigment (each pigment decades in its own way), both from the surface becoming matt and chalky.
Of course, matt or semigloss paints become chalky more quickly than glossy ones.
Modelers often use a layer of matt or semigloss finish to hide the film of decals, and a matt layer makes dark colors appearing a bit faded, but this give a not perfectly accurate look to the model, because real marking colors are usually gloss while the camouflage is usually matt. 
Of course, I convive with this thing because I want to use decals and hide their film.
But after all the work you did on your LaGG-3, it would be good that the difference in finish between camouflage and marking is visible.

Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga...undersurfaces color tests (pag. 17)
Post by: 66misos on February 21, 2016, 08:46:16 AM
Hi Marco,
scale effect is more about making colors rather de-saturated than light. Switch from black-green camo  to the dark grey-bluegrey colors can be seen at least partially as a scale effect when masking aircrafts in the air against distant horizon.
Matt vs. gloss - check photos. Even "matt" AMT paints were in reality semigloss. And those planes usually did not survive long enough to significantly faded.
I agree with Massimo, I would be good to distinguish different surfaces - semigloss camo, almost glossy marking, matt exhaust stains, dirty tires etc.
One overall uniform matt or semigloss coat, as seen on many models on the web, could kill your multiyear effort.
Happy modeling.
     66misos


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga...undersurfaces color tests (pag. 17)
Post by: Markino on February 22, 2016, 01:01:08 PM
Hi guys, many thanks for your explanations and suggestions!! My question was only to dispel my doubts about "faded" and "scale effect". My English is not so good so I want to avoid to mess with these terms.

Yes, I also want to avoid to paint a single tone paint scheme ;). I would to paint the kit with several surfaces tone. I see that Akan paint are semi-gloss so I would to paint matal parts with the normal Akan finish coat, wooden parts a bit more matt and markings in Akan paints normal finish. Obviously also with weathered conditions, as for my Me.109G-6 (http://www.modellismopiu.net/m+gallerie/main.php?g2_itemId=90121).

Almost certainly I will paint red stars and withe 44 by frisket. I have a cutting plotter so I would to cut the masks for stars and numbers.

Let's see what I can do.... :D

Stay tuned! Ciao!

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga...undersurfaces color tests (pag. 17)
Post by: 66misos on February 22, 2016, 02:37:08 PM
Hi Marco,
one note about AKAN paints - I have AKAN acrylics and they have to be applied on the surfacer (I used grey Mr. Surfacer 1000 from Gunze):
Otherwise the paint peels off the plastic and PE parts.
Regards,
   66misos


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga...undersurfaces color tests (pag. 17)
Post by: Markino on February 22, 2016, 04:45:35 PM
Hi 66misos, thanks for information! I have acrylic lacquers paints, they also peel off from plastic and PE?

Usually my painting procedure is as follows:

  • washing with dishwashing detergent
  • Surfacer primer, by airbrush if possible for thinner layer, Tamiya or Mr. Surfacer 1000
  • Preshading by airbrush with matt black on panels line and where required
  • camo scheme
  • Coating with matt or semimatt or semigloss clear paint for different areas
  • ...and so on...

Ciao!

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga...some updates (pag. 17)
Post by: Markino on May 12, 2016, 09:28:41 PM
Hi folks, here some pictures of the last updates for the LaGG. I started to rebuilt canopy, wheels, water cooler deflector and oil cooler shutter.

Vacuum molded canopy (the real very hard part of this kit...) and vacuum machine:

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/260_Stampaggio%20tettuccio%201_zpsdcinpzlu.jpg)

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/261_Stampaggio%20tettuccio%202_zpsfrnjorg1.jpg)

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/262_Stampaggio%20tettuccio%203_zpsbxtsylmp.jpg)

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/263_Lavorazione%20tettuccio_zps1xhghizx.jpg)

Wheels from La-5FN Zvezda kit, the siliconic rubber mold and the cloned wheels:

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/264_Ruote%20clonate_zpsexqgmc77.jpg)

The homebuilt vacuum chamber used to replicate the wheels:

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/265_Vacuum%20chamber_zpsqaknznjm.jpg)

The water cooler air deflector and the oil cooler shutter painted whit undersurfaces Akan 63042 AIIG Blue:

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/266_Radiatore%20e%20sportello%201_zpsqndug6pm.jpg)

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/267_Radiatore%20e%20sportello%202_zps0poz0dlt.jpg)

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/268_Radiatore%20e%20sportello%203_zpswmu3ywuk.jpg)

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/269_Radiatore%20e%20sportello%204_zpsnbfne45d.jpg)

It's all for the moment. Comments and opinions are always welcome!

Ciao!

Marco



Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga...some updates (pag. 19)
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on May 13, 2016, 07:35:40 AM
Hi Marco,
I'm very impressed not only for the huge amount of work on this model, but in particular for its industrial organization. I see you have a vacuform machine for canopies and a vacuum chamber... you could start complete scratchbuildings and small series production of details to make a complete use of these skills and equipments.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga...some updates (pag. 19)
Post by: Markino on May 13, 2016, 04:58:42 PM
Hi Massimo, many thanks for your encouragement but my main problem is the spare time to dedicate to building kit.... :(...

Sometimes I try to play to "superenalotto" (an italian lottery, for non-italian friends)...you may never know... 8)

In the event of a win....?I will build things you people wouldn?t believe,  attack planes on fire off the shoulder of Europe, I watched the flak glitter in the dark near London..... ;D

Ciao!

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga...some updates (pag. 19)
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on May 13, 2016, 05:53:18 PM
Hi Marco, is it a citation from Bladerunner?
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga...some updates (pag. 19)
Post by: learstang on May 13, 2016, 07:20:05 PM
That is indeed a paraphrased quote from 'Bladerunner', from the Rutger Hauer character. Excellent work on the LaGG-3, Marco!

Regards,

Jason


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga...some updates (pag. 19)
Post by: Markino on May 14, 2016, 10:34:43 AM
Hi guys, yes, as Jason said is a paraphrased quote from "Bladerunner"....adapted to plane kit building... ;D...not a threat obviously!

Ciao!

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga...some updates (pag. 19)
Post by: Graham Boak on May 14, 2016, 11:33:54 PM
Going back to the scale colour discussion.  Many years ago I wanted to paint an RAF Jaguar.  I wasn't sure which green paint to use, so I painted several of them onto a strip of plasticard and took this strip into the hangar.  Standing at the wingtip, I held the strip up and chose which paint was the closest match to the green on the fuselage.  I then walked forward and placed the strip onto the fuselage green.  The best match was not the one I had chosen at the distance of the wingtip but a darker, slightly more intense colour.  (The old Humbrol RFC Green, if you want to know.)  So when anyone says that the fading/colour shift only happens at long distances, I can only say "No".  From direct experience there is an effect over much shorter distances.  If you don't believe, try the experiment for yourself.

I have repeated this story many times, but none of the scoffers actually seems to have tried it out.  I accept that it would require several/many such experiments from different individuals to be completely convincing, and even then some would refuse to accept it, but I was and remain convinced.  There is nothing like direct experience over any amount of theory, and (perhaps regrettably) the experience of others.

Whether you wish to include this in your modelling is another matter, of course, but I should add that having painted the Jaguar in that RFC green, the model looked far too dark.


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga...some updates (pag. 19)
Post by: Markino on May 16, 2016, 01:02:03 PM
Hello Graham, I agree with you. When I paint a model I always try to find information about the correspondence with a reference system, F.S., RAL, BS, etc ..

Then I begin to see what colors are available in the market and exchange  information and views with other forum members to understand how to get my bearings.

Almost always, the choice is "the nearest", or "the most appropriate". A few times I have to choose the exact color F.S. or BS, etc ..
Also for the LaGG I chose what was being referred to as "the most correct", "the most appropriate." Hoping that the Russians modelers have not made a colossal mistake ...

As well as you say (Jaguar), climatic factors and different from area to deterioration of the same aircraft areas may influence the very same color.

So I try to "fix" the color trying to make it look "lived and worn out", or at least not to use the color directly from the package because it seems too "sham" (IMHO).

Thank you very much for sharing your opinion. :) :)

Hello!

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga...some updates (pag. 19)
Post by: Markino on May 26, 2016, 12:29:45 PM
Hi guys, in these days I have prepared for painting some of the last parts of the LaGG. I would need some information about color of these parts:

  • Main landing gear leg, bays and tail wheel strut: A-14 steel grey for legs and tail wheel strut and AII blue for bays or all in A-14?
  • Wheel's hub: which type of green for these parts? If possible in FS or Humbrol code, please....
  • Interior Landing wheels covers: A-14 or AII blue as for undersurfaces?
  • Propeller blades: I would say in black.... ;D

Many thanks for all your help! Ciao!

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga...some updates (pag. 19)
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on May 26, 2016, 01:24:41 PM
Hi Marco,
I would say A-14 for the bays and inner face of doors. I can't say for the wheel hubs.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga...some updates (pag. 19)
Post by: Markino on May 27, 2016, 10:39:07 AM
Hi Massimo, many thanks for your kindly reply! Do you think main gear legs was in A-14 also?

Ciao!

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga...some updates (pag. 19)
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on May 27, 2016, 12:59:11 PM
Hi Marco,
probably, yes. Probably not always, some images of Lavochkins show light legs as an alternative, but the most of the photos show a darkness of the legs comparable to the inner face of the covers, supposedly painted grey A-14.
Regards
Massimo.


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga...some updates (pag. 19)
Post by: Markino on May 29, 2016, 07:29:53 PM
Hi Massimo, many thanks for your reply. So in this case I will to paint in A-14 the legs and tail wheel strut, wheel bays, and inner faces of gear cover.
For the wheel hubs I wait for your reply in the "colors, schemes & research" section.

Ciao!

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga...some updates (pag. 19)
Post by: otto on May 31, 2016, 04:01:00 PM
Marco, you are making the "Ultimate LaGG"!  ;D


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga...some updates (pag. 19)
Post by: Markino on June 01, 2016, 08:33:01 AM
Hi Otto, ultimate and endless... :o ;)

Now I am looking which "strange numbered"  to do...I like white 44 but there are no images for the right side of this plane to see the camo pattern. Probably I will choose white 20, whit camo visible in the left and right side...

Ciao!

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga...some updates (pag. 19)
Post by: otto on June 01, 2016, 03:16:29 PM
Marco, in case you need adhesive masks to paint those "strange numbers", I could make them with my cutting plotter.


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga...some updates (pag. 19)
Post by: Markino on June 01, 2016, 03:50:32 PM
Hi Otto, many thanks for your kindness! Me too have a cutting plotter, a "Shilouette Cameo" running under linux and Inkscape as SVG software. Surely I will cut the numbers and the stars in adhesive masks before long...

What your equipment Otto?

Ciao!

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga...some updates (pag. 19)
Post by: otto on June 01, 2016, 04:13:45 PM
I have a Cameo too!
I only used it to make some plastic parts for my Terminator, but it's great to cut paint masks!


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga...some updates (pag. 19)
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on June 01, 2016, 09:59:44 PM
Hi Otto, hi Marco,
the cutting plotter is a very interesting device. Now I'm cutting by hand the masks for the pixel camouflage of my ZTZ-99, and it is an huge work.
How much does the plotter cost, just to have an idea?
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga...some updates (pag. 19)
Post by: Markino on June 02, 2016, 09:59:32 AM
Hi Massimo, the Cameo is the best device to cut the masks carefully (...one of the best device...I don't know if does exist other brands...).
I bought mine here: http://www.silhouetteitaly.com/#!on-line-store. They also have a good choice spare parts and accessories.

I paid it about ?300 but now is a bit cheaper....

As I said I use the plotter under linux and with inkscape as SVG software (free), with a little software made by a friend of www.modellismopiu.it. Obviously the plotter has his software running under Windows.

If you cut masks often I will recommend buying....

HTH.

Ciao!

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga...some updates (pag. 19)
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on June 02, 2016, 10:15:17 PM
Hi Marco,
the device looks interesting and the price is not impossible. Thank you for your informations.
I had a look to the main page of modellismopi?. I saw that the last posts are of 5 years ago. Is the site still vital?
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga...some updates (pag. 19)
Post by: Markino on June 03, 2016, 10:45:08 AM
Hi Massimo, for the Cameo the money are money well spent...(IMHO)...

Yes, Modellismo pi? is still vital. I posted there for the vacuum chamber and LaGG-3 not more that a couple of weeks ago...

Here link for vacuum chamber and LaGG-3:

http://www.modellismopiu.it/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=135508&forum=1

http://www.modellismopiu.it/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=114105&forum=106

Ciao!

Marco



Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga...some updates (pag. 19)
Post by: Markino on June 15, 2016, 09:04:43 AM
Hi guys, here some pictures of the last updates, regarding the canopy:

Canopy cut out parts:

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/270_Tettuccio%201_zpsynvjyrr9.jpg)

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/271_Tettuccio%202_zpsyemqwklh.jpg)

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/272_Tettuccio%203_zpstmjl4tnw.jpg)

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/273_Tettuccio%204_zpsgf5gafei.jpg)

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/274_Tettuccio%205_zpstyxnyy63.jpg)

Canopy protection racks finally removed:

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/275_Protezione%20binario%20tettuccio%20rimossa%201_zpsyqkimkqi.jpg)

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/276_Protezione%20binario%20tettuccio%20rimossa%202_zpscfu7sj6k.jpg)

Canopy and frames. Now the sliding part is slightly squashed due to strips tape used as guides:

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/277_Dry%20fitting%20tettuccio%201_zpsl2kxfjix.jpg)

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/278_Dry%20fitting%20tettuccio%202_zpssnhvtbdu.jpg)

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/279_Dry%20fitting%20tettuccio%203_zpsj2xqiogl.jpg)
 
Some parts ready for painting:

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/280_Particolari%20in%20verniciatura%201_zpsxrozvhqm.jpg)

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/281_Particolari%20in%20verniciatura%202_zpsblkgxwm0.jpg)

What do you think about canopy? In my impression in photos the frames appears slightly  thick....but in real they seems right....I can not understand why this impression...

Again: does anyone has pictures about canopy latch? I am not able to find anything about it...

Many thanks for all! Ciao!

Marco



Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga...canopy & co. (pag. 20)
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on June 15, 2016, 12:42:32 PM
Hi Marco,
impressive, as usual. Is it close to the end?
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga...canopy & co. (pag. 20)
Post by: Markino on June 15, 2016, 04:57:42 PM
Hi Massimo, yes, me and LaGG are on route for final approach...clearence already copied ;).

But what your impression about canopy frames? What do you think about?

Ciao!

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga...canopy & co. (pag. 20)
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on June 15, 2016, 07:34:15 PM
Hi,
are they made by paper or what else? I don't think that they can be made thinner, except if one makes them with paint only. Anyway a scale license for thickness is a common thing.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga...canopy & co. (pag. 20)
Post by: Markino on June 15, 2016, 09:08:52 PM
Hi Massimo, yes, they are made by adhesive paper, adhesive labels to be exact. Indeed it would be a little difficult make them even thinner ....
Well .... I will keep as they are ... ;)

Next step will be the internal structure of the canopy. In photos it seem made by metal tube. I thought to made it by 0,5 mm plastic or copper rod... Suggestions are very well accepted  ;D!

Ciao!

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga...canopy & co. (pag. 20)
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on June 16, 2016, 06:52:20 AM
Hi Marco,
will adhesive labels be stable enough with time?
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga...canopy & co. (pag. 20)
Post by: Markino on June 16, 2016, 09:58:18 AM
Hi Massimo, I used adhesive label strips several times to made canopy frames and normally they are stable...I am talking about several years (5-8 years). Usually I put a very small amount of cyanoacrylate glue in the connecting point of the strips and on the edges of the part, trying to paste the strips outside and inside the canopy and its edge.... I hope to explain decently... ::).

Last evening I started to paste the internal tubular frames...I finally opted for 0,3 mm rods to copy the tubular structure....

Do you have some informations about canopy latch? How did the pilots to close it?

Ciao!

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga...canopy & co. (pag. 20)
Post by: Markino on July 21, 2016, 06:43:36 PM
Hello guys, some updates before painting and...summer holidays...

Radio mast and upper balance mass on the rudder; two little half rings for the antenna wire...not much visible in truth :

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/282_Asta%20per%20antenna%20e%20bilanciere%20sup.%20timone_zpsnvyngfyn.jpg)

The pitot tube:

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/283_Pitot_zpsaqdinq1k.jpg)

Radio mast and ceramic insulator:

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/284_Asta%20antenna%20e%20isolatore%20ceramica_zpsau8u3qyv.jpg)

Lower balance mass under the rudder:

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/285_Bilanciere%20inferiore_zpsss6466pc.jpg)

Some painted parts:

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/286_Particolari%20dipinti_zpsv5azjxzk.jpg)

The GoNza main landing doors and the homebuilt tools and ejectors pin used to embossed the parts as required:

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/287_Copricarrello%20by%20GoNza_zpsnflfcq1m.jpg)

Almost completely  painted main gear legs and tailwheel fork:

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/288_Gambe%20carrello_zps7fiozol9.jpg)

My cardboard homebuilt painting cabin and air compressor...homebuilt also... ;):

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/289_Cabina%20verniciatura%20e%20compressore%201_zpspanpybqs.jpg)

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/290_Cabina%20verniciatura%20e%20compressore%202_zpsfcfkdevu.jpg)

Now I flying towards the camo painting... ;D

Ciao!

Marco



Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga...toward painting time.. (pag. 21)
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on July 25, 2016, 10:44:27 PM
Hi Marco,
I am highly impressed for your equipment. A painting cabin would be good for me too, but I have problems to connect it with the outside of a window.
A filter from an old kitchen is the best thing I found to reduce vapors.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga...toward painting time.. (pag. 21)
Post by: learstang on August 01, 2016, 10:16:12 PM
Excellent work, Marco! I guess it won't be too long until you start the camouflage painting.

Regards,

Jason


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga...toward painting time.. (pag. 21)
Post by: Markino on August 03, 2016, 09:43:00 AM
Massimo, maybe a pc fan and a cardboard box should solve your troubles with painting vapours. Like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbGJ4AiG6MA, plus a pc fan above or rear the box... I think it works well for painting in home...

@Learstang: me too hope not too long time to start camo painting... ;)

Ciao!

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga...toward painting time.. (pag. 21)
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on August 03, 2016, 08:11:14 PM
Hi Marco,
the main problem is not the aspiration box, but a tube to discharge fumes outside. I have not windows on my worchbench, and a big flexible tube to the closer window is a problem.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga...toward painting time.. (pag. 21)
Post by: Markino on August 04, 2016, 08:33:32 AM
Massimo you could filter the air putting a kitchen filter rear the fan (or fans), making a filtering interspace between fan and outside of the box. Rear the filter you cuold put a short pipe. You have as result filtered air with no painting particulate and low smell of paint...

Of course, if it is possible to do so where you live... ::)

Ciao.

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga...toward painting time.. (pag. 21)
Post by: Markino on August 07, 2016, 08:46:44 PM
Hi Massimo I wish to know if I can use your LaGG-3 white 20 profile (http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/lagg3/44iap/44iap20.html) to obtain the profiles for rudder stars and number 20 and make painting templates with my Cameo cutting plotter.

If possible I need also a airplane underside plan profile showing the stars under wings and their position.

Thanks for all your help! Ciao!

Marco



Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga..need help for stars and numbers.. (pag. 21)
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on August 08, 2016, 07:57:17 AM
Hi Marco,
of course you can use the drawings as a base to cut masks, but I think that a plotter requires a vector drawing and I haven't it. So you have to vectorialize the digits manually.
I haven't drawings from below showing the position of the stars. This can be obtained from photos, for example they are visible at http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/lagg3/44iap/44iap25.html (http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/lagg3/44iap/44iap25.html) that shows plane 25 of the same unit.
Probably one can find images of wings from better perspectives, but if they aren't of the same factory, then it is not grated that the stars had the same location and size.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga..need help for stars and numbers.. (pag. 21)
Post by: Markino on August 08, 2016, 01:14:31 PM
Hi Massimo, many thanks for your courtesy to use your drawings. Yes, I have Inkscape as SVG software, so I think it will be not so difficult to obtain rudder stars and white numbers, starting from yours drawings.

For the under wings stars I will try to deduce position and size from your link to white 25.... However we will talk about this after mountain holidays... ;)

Here some pictures after primer. I used the wonderful "Mr. Finishing surfacer 1500 gray" thinned by "Mr. Color Leveling Thinner", both from Gunze Sangyo. This primer is simply amazing! I used for years the spray can "surfacer primer L" by tamiya, but the Mr. Finishing is widely better. Surely more controllable with airbrush and a good thinning.

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/291_Primer%201_zpsne1ob6ir.jpg)

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/292_Primer%202_zpsoshnrixy.jpg)

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/293_Primer%203_zps9l8dp2vh.jpg)

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/294_Primer%204_zpsefh8efgb.jpg)

Obviously primer has showed those defects not otherwise visible and that must be corrected before going ahead...

Ciao!

Marco



Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga..need help for stars and numbers.. (pag. 21)
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on August 08, 2016, 03:59:01 PM
Hi Marco,
I'll try the primer and solvant you suggested, because I am not satisfied with the Tamiya primer, I have a can but I've utilized it only once because of the orange skin finish, too bad on details where not interested by modification works.  Probably I'll use it on the turret of Chonma  that I'm scratchbuilding.
By the way, I suggest to use another source for masks of stars. I'm not sure that those of the profiles have not any small perspectical warpage.

Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga..need help for stars and numbers.. (pag. 21)
Post by: Markino on August 09, 2016, 05:13:44 PM
Hi Massimo, yes, the orange skin finish is a common problem with primer spray can... You can solve definitively with Mr. Surfacer 1500...or similar...

By the way, I suggest to use another source for masks of stars. I'm not sure that those of the profiles have not any small perspectical warpage.

Do you mean the color drawing profiles or the photos? I meant to use the color drawing profiles...

Ciao!

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga..need help for stars and numbers.. (pag. 21)
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on August 10, 2016, 09:15:08 AM
Hi Marco,
I suggest not to use those drawings to make the masks of the stars, I am not sure that there is not any perspectical warping to adapt them to curved surfaces. You can easly find other stars of the same size.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga..need help for stars and numbers.. (pag. 21)
Post by: otto on August 10, 2016, 11:17:29 AM
Wonderful job, Marco!
Mr.Surfacer is a great help to achieve smooth surfaces, especially after massive scratch-building ;).
You can add extra smoothness with Alclad II Micromesh polishing clothes.


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga..need help for stars and numbers.. (pag. 21)
Post by: learstang on August 15, 2016, 09:40:22 PM
Nice, Marco - you finally got her primed! I look forward to seeing the camouflage on her.

Regards,

Jason


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga..need help for stars and numbers.. (pag. 21)
Post by: Markino on August 18, 2016, 05:42:25 PM
Hi guys, thanks for your replies!

@Massimo: Massimo, looking at the pictures of white 20 and the corresponding colors profiles, I think they are the best at the moment, at least as regards to numbers 20 and rudder's stars. Rudder's stars of 14, 22 and 44 are practically the same of number 20; the number 20 also are practically the same of the pictures, as position and size (IMHO).
So, if you are agree I will use the rudder's stars and number 20 of your color profiles. For the stars of down side wing I am looking for good informations;if some guy has some good information about it, this would be much appreciated... ;D ;D.
The same applies if I have done some bad judgment as written above ...

@Otto: thanks for your suggestion! When I shall return from holidays, I will take them surely!

@Jason: Me too jason... ;). After repairing some small flaws highlighted by primer, I will go on for the camo...

Thanks for all your helps and suggestions! Ciao!!

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga..need help for stars and numbers.. (pag. 21)
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on August 18, 2016, 08:47:21 PM
Hi Marco,
if you want, please feel free to use the profiles as a base for your masks.
I hope to see your work soon.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga..need help for stars and numbers.. (pag. 21)
Post by: Markino on August 19, 2016, 03:56:51 PM
Many thanks Massimo! Next I will use Rhinoceros to get the stars and numbers profiles and I will try to find a rhino output format to convert next in .svg and use this with the cutting plotter.
If anyone knows the rhinoceros program, suggestions for formats conversion are veeery appreciated... ;D.

Ciao!

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga..need help for stars and numbers.. (pag. 21)
Post by: Markino on August 19, 2016, 04:31:28 PM
Found! From Rhino "save as" .dxf file, then by http://www.dxfconverter.org/ convert it in .svg file... ;D

Now I start to work on it with .bmp files to insert on rhino and obtain the correct shapes... ;)

Ciao!

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga..need help for stars and numbers.. (pag. 21)
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on August 21, 2016, 09:45:40 AM
Hi Marco,
this is interesting. Eventually, could the same method be utilized to vectorialize images to print on decals paper?
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga..need help for stars and numbers.. (pag. 21)
Post by: Markino on August 21, 2016, 02:56:20 PM
Hi Massimo, I think yes...insted cutting by cutting plotter you should to print by printer.
The only difference is that for cutting plotter I need only the outline, while for decals you need colors also, but basically the procedure for vectorialize images is the same...(IMHO)

Ciao!

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga..need help for stars and numbers.. (pag. 21)
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on August 21, 2016, 06:51:22 PM
Hi Marco,
is the vectorizing procedure automatic or manual?
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga..need help for stars and numbers.. (pag. 21)
Post by: Markino on August 22, 2016, 06:42:08 PM
Hi Massimo, the procedure is...exquisitely manual... :'(

Honestly I don't know if there is an automatic procedure. In Rhino I think not...

Next time I post the procedure I use step by step...

Ciao!

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga..need help for stars and numbers.. (pag. 21)
Post by: Markino on August 26, 2016, 06:47:27 PM
I guys, I realized star and number 20 starting from massimo's color drawing profiles. Here the step by step procedure I use to do it:

Getting images from Internet (Massimo courtesy):

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/295_Numero%2020%20da%20internet_zpsu4k3jwtb.jpg)

Cut out of the image by Microsoft Office Picture Manager, paying attention at the length from spinner starter crank to tail light:

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/296_Immagine%20ritagliata%20con%20Microsoft%20Office%20Picture%20Manager_zpsgzp6aqrg.jpg)

Printed obtained image and "brute" comparison with scale drawings (sheet behind):

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/297_Comparazione%20bruta%20dopo%20ritaglio%20con%20MOPM_zpsfmvi5u8d.jpg)

Image imported to Inkscape and resized, mantaining aspect ratio, for length of 183,5 mm (I assume this as scale correct length..IMHO):

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/298_box%20immagine%20a%20misura%20Inkscape_zpsegukyjx4.jpg)

Resizing the whole sheet with the same dimensions of the image box (otherwise is difficult to export in Rhino only the images; entire sheet is exported):

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/299_box%20e%20foglio%20a%20misura%20inkscape_zpssimvhw0v.jpg)

Then the file was saved as .PNG to import in Rhino.

Another quick check to the dimensions...

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/300_Misurazione%20dopo%20impostazione%20foglio%20inkscape_zpsf9znwqde.jpg)

Image elaborated in Rhino with profiles of number 20 and star:

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/301_Numero%2020%20e%20stella%20Rhino_zpsvpejndds.jpg)


I made two kind of number 20. I tried to obtain correct numbers profile mantaining a constant offset (2,2 mm measured on the printed image). Azure lines on the background color profile are the first step, "A" and "B" numbers are the result.

Number 0 is in two different shapes: "A" zero profile is obtained straight from picture, but I think is too squared...
Then I made a second 0, the "B" one using the round top of number 2. Checking at photos of white 20 (http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/lagg3/44iap/44iap20.html), I think "B" 20 is most correct than "A" 20.

What do you think about, guys?

Many thanks in advance for your impressions and comments.

Ciao!

Marco





Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga..Star and number 20.. (pag. 22)
Post by: Markino on August 28, 2016, 11:34:19 AM
Hi guys, here the last step to obtain svg file for cutting plotter. Rudder star and number 20 are now in the correct dimensions for cutting.

What do you think about numbers? Which do you think is the most correct profiles between A and B?

Many thanks for your impressions! Ciao!

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/302_Profili%20svg%20per%20plotter_zpsjo4xo6sw.jpg)

Marco



Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga..Star and number 20.. (pag. 22)
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on August 28, 2016, 08:41:20 PM
Hi Marco,
interesting procedure.
I think that the shape B is better than A.
I wait to see the end of the work soon.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga..Star and number 20.. (pag. 22)
Post by: Markino on August 29, 2016, 04:40:33 PM
Hi Massimo, yes, the procedure is a bit intricate but at the end I've obtained the profile I wanted. Next days I will try to cut masks and several tests with spraying.

Do you think the stars was all with the same dimensions or the tail's stars was smaller than fuselage and wings ones?

Ciao!

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga..Star and number 20.. (pag. 22)
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on August 29, 2016, 05:53:34 PM
Hi Marco,
hard to say from the photos... but you can check on your model, looking at the positions where the stars start  and end (distance from leading edge and ailerons line).
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga..Star and number 20.. (pag. 22)
Post by: Markino on September 01, 2016, 06:24:24 PM
Hi Massimo, I am trying to determine the position of the stars under the wing. I am using white 25 photos because the better visible stars under the wings. No other "strange numbers" plane show well the stars under wings.

I notice also your "strange numbers" color profile have red stars under the wings... Do you have a color bottom view also? How did you do to draw the star in that position?

Ciao!

Marco





Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga..Star and number 20.. (pag. 22)
Post by: Markino on September 01, 2016, 08:02:10 PM
I did a quick test...I tried to determine the main axis of the star on this photos (strange numbers white 25):

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/303_Posizione%20stella%20sotto%20ala_zpsqdrptwm3.jpg)

Then by Rhino and the scale drawing bottom view I tried to put the stars in the positions I think that would be right; stars are slightly bigger than the tail's one. For information rudder's star is 17 mm from point to point horizontal line, while the under wing ones are 19,3 mm on the same horizontal line:

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/304_Stelle%20sotto%20ala%20e%20posizionamento_zpsyy4u5td4.jpg)

What do you think about guys? It seems credible or I'm saying a stupid thing?

Many thanks for your impressions! Ciao!

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga..Star and number 20.. (pag. 22)
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on September 01, 2016, 09:12:53 PM
Hi Marco,
I utilized the aileron lines of the profile to put the stars into position, more or less as you did on your lower view.
Your sketch looks good to my eye.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga..Star and number 20.. (pag. 22)
Post by: Markino on September 26, 2016, 09:54:01 PM
Hi guys, here some updates on the LaGG...

I move slightly forward the stars under the wings and I set some dimensions as reference:

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/305_Stelle%20sotto%20ala%20posizionamento%20e%20misure_zpstfanmbbb.jpg)

Preshading:

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/306_Preshading%201_zpsqschklbi.jpg)

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/307_Preshading%202_zpsiux9mhgo.jpg)

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/308_Preshading%203_zpsyu9s6lmm.jpg)

White and red for numbers and stars:

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/309_Bianco%20e%20rosso%201_zpsgjzb5qdl.jpg)

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/310_Rosso%20stelle%20sotto%20ala_zpsbkbwvi16.jpg)

Stars and numbers masks:

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/311_Stelle%20e%20numeri%201_zpsxrpzcf21.jpg)

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/312_Stelle%20e%20numeri%202_zpspbgdwzyq.jpg)

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/313_Stelle%20e%20numeri%203_zpsesncgrn4.jpg)

A II Z Green:

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/314_AIIZ%20Green%201_zpsiqlud3vb.jpg)

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/315_AIIZ%20Green%202_zpsbtb37irg.jpg)

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/316_AIIZ%20Green%203_zpsrkr5qfnu.jpg)

Here I modified by photoshop the top view of Massimo's drawings, trying to arrange the camo pattern on the rear fuselage as per lateral views, showing in photos and color drawings (http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/lagg3/44iap/44iap20.html).
What do you think about this, guys?

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/317_vista%20sopra%20ritagliata_correzione%20mimetica_zpsf4ukxnxi.jpg)

Many thanks for your impression and opinions!

Ciao!

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga..almost camouflaged.. (pag. 23)
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on September 27, 2016, 06:19:26 AM
Hi Marco,
impressive work as always.
You are right showing a sort of discontinuity on the back, close to the tail.  Perhaps the green 'way' between the black bands is a bit more rounded or inclined, but your modification looks good.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga..almost camouflaged.. (pag. 23)
Post by: Markino on September 27, 2016, 09:52:58 AM
Hi Massimo, yes I done the modification real quick last night.

Quote
Perhaps the green 'way' between the black bands is a bit more rounded or inclined

Before long I will do more calmly and I show you the results.

Many thanks for your impressions! Ciao!

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga..almost camouflaged.. (pag. 23)
Post by: Markino on October 03, 2016, 10:42:14 AM
Hi guys, some updates about camo.

After the green I tried to do a masking using Uhu Patafix and paper masks. After a test on a sample piece I noticed that Patafix leaves a halo on the painted area, so I opted for piece of little rolls tape to fix the paper masks:

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/318_Patafix%20no%20buono%201_zpsqhslwhgt.jpg)

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/319_Patafix%20no%20buono%202_zpsq3plcgqn.jpg)

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/320_Mascherine%20ritagliate_zpswyws6v2n.jpg)

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/321_Masquerade%201_zpshtgsaz0o.jpg)

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/322_Masquerade%202_zps9z5q2yvy.jpg)

Unfortunately, after removing masks rollin tapes also leave a signs on the painting...so next I will have to wipe them with Alclad Micromesh clotes...

Next time I will post picture of as above...stay tuned... :)

Ciao!

Marco



Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga..masquerade!.. (pag. 23)
Post by: otto on October 03, 2016, 11:31:16 AM
Impressive job, Marco. Your method of painting insignia before the camouflage is interesting.
What paint did you use? On my Terminator I did't have problems with the Patafix. I used Tamya and Gunze paint thinned with Tamiya lacquer thinner, the one with the pale yellow cap. It makes the paint strong and resistant. When using the traditional Tamiya thinner with white cap, the paint takes a long time to get completely dry, and it's very sensitive to fingerprints and, perhaps, Patafix.


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga..masquerade!.. (pag. 23)
Post by: Markino on October 03, 2016, 02:01:59 PM
Hi Otto, I use the Akan acrylic laquer paint. They are fantastic used by airbrush but they are very sensitive too to the tape.
In my past models I used paints as Humbrol, Tamiya, Gunze, Aircraft Colours and I haven't problem with masking tape...till now... >:(...

As I said, Akan acrylic laquer are good airbrush colours but too sensitive...handle with care... ;)

Ciao!

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga..masquerade!.. (pag. 23)
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on October 04, 2016, 09:41:20 AM
Hi Marco, hi Otto,
I seldom use masks, but I suspect that it's better if only masking tape or masking adhesive paper comes in contact with the paint. Once, I utilized an adhesive paper for printers and it stripped some chips of paint (fom the Khalid, my Jordanian Challenger).
Later i attached the adhesive printed paper to a masking paper and hadn't this problem on the ZTZ-99.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga..masquerade!.. (pag. 23)
Post by: Markino on October 12, 2016, 11:34:23 PM
Hi guys, here some pictures of un-masquerade LaGG:

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/323_Unmasquerade_zps0c29hmf3.jpg)

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/324_Unmasquerade_zpskafdhsr1.jpg)

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/325_Unmasquerade_zps5enzy0yt.jpg)

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/326_Unmasquerade_zpsed9kh2gs.jpg)

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/327_Unmasquerade_zpsuunfmoox.jpg)

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/328_Unmasquerade_zpsrdjdibzz.jpg)

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/329_Unmasquerade_zpstb1yxy2p.jpg)

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/330_Unmasquerade_zpsd8jnkwdc.jpg)

Most of the work is done. There are only tweaks here and there. These paints are very shining and I confirm veeery sensitive... They are the thinner of itself...if you insist too much in one area there is a risk of also removing the paint on previously.....

What are you think about? Which your impressions, guys?

Next I will airbrushing Future wax to set the stencils from Authentic Decals set n?48-25; I will use the white stencils, I think is the correct one, right?

Ciao!

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga..Un-masquerade!.. (pag. 23)
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on October 14, 2016, 06:35:23 AM
Hi Marco,
looks great, as usual.
I think to see some thin white lines around the star on the tail. Is this real, and wanted?
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga..Un-masquerade!.. (pag. 23)
Post by: Markino on October 14, 2016, 08:22:23 AM
Hi Massimo, around the tail stars there is a veeery small edge (perhaps one-tenth of a millimeter, in truth) and the camera flash has highlighted them, making them look bigger than they are and look them as white. The edges are the results of the stars masks removing. I think they disappears with next clear coating....I hope... :o

Could you confirm service stencils was white for these kind of planes?

Ciao!

Marco



Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga..Un-masquerade!.. (pag. 23)
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on October 14, 2016, 11:21:51 AM
Hi Marco,
I confirm that there are photos of LaGG-3s with apparently white stenciling. About the photos where stenciling is not visible, I guess it's the same.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga..Un-masquerade!.. (pag. 23)
Post by: Markino on October 14, 2016, 04:45:17 PM
Many thanks Massimo! ;D
Ciao!

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga..Un-masquerade!.. (pag. 23)
Post by: Markino on November 27, 2016, 12:09:48 PM
Hello guys, the LaGG is on the way to be finished, unfortunately I had some troubles with the landing gear legs and I had to rebuild them, but not be long now ...

I wish to represent some scratching and scraping on wooden parts, I saw on the colour table (http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/colors/color-table.html) the primer for these parts was "nitroputty". But which color references can I use to represent it (F.S. mainly or humbrol, gunze, etc.)?

Many thanks for your help! Ciao!

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga..Un-masquerade!.. (pag. 23)
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on November 28, 2016, 01:53:22 PM
Hi Marco,
sorry to read about the accident of the legs. well, better those of the model that one's own.

There are some images of wrecks in the Finnish museums.

(http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/colors/mark-colors/plainstar1.jpg)
I guess that it is a ochra yellow comparable to ALG-1.

Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga..Un-masquerade!.. (pag. 23)
Post by: Markino on November 30, 2016, 02:40:46 PM
Hi Massimo, many thanks for your reply! Do you have a FS reference, also?  ;D

Ciao!

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga..Un-masquerade!.. (pag. 23)
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on November 30, 2016, 05:03:31 PM
Hi,
only guesses. You could try with 33618.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga..Un-masquerade!.. (pag. 23)
Post by: Markino on December 01, 2016, 12:01:45 PM
Many thanks Massimo!!

Ciao!

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga..Un-masquerade!.. (pag. 23)
Post by: Markino on January 02, 2017, 05:50:04 PM
Hello guys, the LaGG is close to be finished, there are still very few details.

A quick question: which the colors of the navigation lights? On color profiles on Aviakollekzia 5/2005, they are red for right and left wing and white for the rudder's light.

Do you think it is correct or they was in different colors?

Many thanks for all your help! Ciao!

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga..which colors of nav light?.. (pag. 24)
Post by: learstang on January 02, 2017, 07:34:49 PM
Marco, as far as I can tell the Soviets used the typical navigational light scheme of green for starboard (right), red for port (left), and the tail light was white. Your LaGG looks great!

Regards,

Jason


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga..which colors of nav light?.. (pag. 24)
Post by: Markino on January 03, 2017, 04:07:55 PM
Hi Jason many thanks!! I hope this new year will see the end of this plane...

In Florence we use to say "Lungo come l'opera di' Domo!"  (trans.: "It takes so long time as the Duomo building" referred to a very long building of somethings.... :P)

Ciao!

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga..which colors of nav light?.. (pag. 24)
Post by: Markino on February 06, 2017, 12:49:54 PM
Hi guys, finally I finished the LaGG-3. Below some pictures of the finished kit.

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/331_LaGG3_1_zpsmm8p9ufo.jpg)

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/332_LaGG3_2_zpsz05zgyqj.jpg)

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/333_LaGG3_3_zpszoyp0uwh.jpg)

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/334_LaGG3_4_zps6zvak9aj.jpg)

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/335_LaGG3_5_zpsr3inczm7.jpg)

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/336_LaGG3_6_zpsu2jsitlu.jpg)

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/337_LaGG3_7_zpskl48fmy5.jpg)

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/338_LaGG3_8_zps1r84dd7e.jpg)

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/339_LaGG3_9_zpscb3oivsb.jpg)

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/340_LaGG3_10_zpsph9hkc9p.jpg)

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/341_LaGG3_11_zpsyhidjnam.jpg)

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/342_LaGG3_12_zpsncxzno5y.jpg)

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/343_LaGG3_13_zpsuhuprqtz.jpg)

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/344_LaGG3_14_zpsoszfxo23.jpg)

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/345_LaGG3_15_zps3s0lwn5c.jpg)

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/346_LaGG3_16_zpsp0jxjuma.jpg)

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/347_LaGG3_17_zpsclk9hivt.jpg)

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/348_LaGG3_18_zpsvjna6wy3.jpg)

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/349_LaGG3_19_zpsjwys0vvb.jpg)

(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag479/Marvel0169/LaGG-3%20Vector%201_48/350_LaGG3_20_zpsvo0wa1au.jpg)

The chipped paint on the wooden parts do not satisfy me much but I couldn't take it any more.

Many thanks to all for the invaluable help!!!!

Ciao!

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga..Alleluia!!.. (pag. 24)
Post by: Dric on February 07, 2017, 01:44:21 PM
Woaw !
You made a splendid work. Congrats !
Dric


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga..Alleluia!!.. (pag. 24)
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on February 07, 2017, 09:22:57 PM
Hi Marco,
I'm happy to see the model completed. You have made a great work, with an impressive use of advanced techniques.
Have you other projects for the future modelling?
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga..Alleluia!!.. (pag. 24)
Post by: Markino on February 08, 2017, 06:55:19 PM
Thanks guys! I would also like to thank you for your support and patience!

Quote
Have you other projects for the future modelling?

Yes Massimo, I have sevaral kits laids on the shelf. The next one, started a lot of time ago, is the Tamiya P-51D item #61040 in 1/48. No russian subject for the next time...

You can follow the building here, resurrect a couple of months ago...:http://www.modellismopiu.it/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=136124&forum=49

Almost certainly the next russian plane will be the Zvezda La-5FN in 1/48. Obviously I will continue to follow you with interest.  :) :)

Ciao!!

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga..Alleluia!!.. (pag. 24)
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on February 08, 2017, 09:05:14 PM
Hi Marco,
good luck for your Mustang. Besides, I hope to see your La-5 started soon.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga..Alleluia!!.. (pag. 24)
Post by: Markino on February 10, 2017, 04:00:35 PM
I will certainly give you even boredom with my La-5FN! :P :P

Ciao!

Marco


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga..Alleluia!!.. (pag. 24)
Post by: GoNzA on February 17, 2017, 04:27:25 PM
Very realistic model!


Title: Re: LaGG-3 saga..Alleluia!!.. (pag. 24)
Post by: Markino on February 18, 2017, 07:32:38 PM
Hi Anatoly, many thanks! Thanks for your photoetched set also!! A very masterpiece for my LaGG-3 realism!! :) :) :)

Ciao!!

Marco