Sovietwarplanes

Does anyone have an opinion on the colour of the cockpit of the LaGG-3? I'm waiting for the new Authentic decals to arrive, and I'd like to start building a Roden 1/72 LaGG. In page 5 of the following thread, two modellers are working on this aircraft in 1/48 scale. One has apparently used dark grey (A-14), the other has used aluminum lacquer ("silverfish" according to Google's translation (when it works) and "rods of high carbon and alloy" according to Babel Fish!  :D ). Scroll about halfway down the page:

http://scalemodels.ru/modules/forum/viewtopic.php?t=20346&postdays=0&postorder=asc&&start=80

Here's a photo, supposedly of a LaGG-3 cockpit, which I saved from a thread on Scalemodels.ru, which looks very "silvery":

(http://s1.postimage.org/5kf7S.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gx5kf7S)

Note that the cockpit sidewall looks almost exactly the same as the first aid box, which appears to be an unpainted metal (aluminum?) stamping.

My guess would be aluminum lacquer for an early LaGG-3, and possibly A-14 for a later one (series 35? series 66?), although the photos in the following "walkaround" seem to show aluminum lacquer even in the La-5:

http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/AWA1/501-600/walk544_La-5_Abbott/walk544.htm

Thanks!

John

Hi John,
this is likely. Only the instrument panel and metal parts looks painted with colors different than silver. I guess they are grey.
The topic on the russian site is really great, I could have to add a more detailed technical description of LaGG-3 because some new images have emerged there.
Massimo

Yes John,it looks like aluminium laquer.The metal parts as seat and back armour could be grey A-14.Greetings.

Martin

Thanks, Massimo and Martin! But for the instrument panel:

(http://s1.postimage.org/bdRVJ.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gxbdRVJ)

(http://s4.postimage.org/Dr890.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aVDr890)

...it appears very light in colour. Could AEh-9 be a possibility? This colour was used on some aircraft such as the I-16 for a period of time during that type's production. It doesn't look reflective like aluminum lacquer, but it's almost as light in tone. Thanks again!

John

Hi John,
it looks likely. The instrument panel of I-153 of Bourget looks of the same color, and it is light grey, nearly white, by sure. The same photo of LaGG cockpit is described as A-14 by Orlov, if I remember well, but this doesn't look right to me.
Massimo

Hi John,
maybe this could be interesting for you:
"Silver as interior color
Silver was used also as interior finish over areas of wooden structure.  This is the case for both the MiG-3 (outer wings) and the LaGG-3 (fuselage) at Vesivehmaa museum.

Interior colors I know of (other than the VVSpage gives us): One of the SB elevators at Vesivehmaa museum has damage hole so that the interiors of it can be examined. While the whole elevator is painted externally with silver inside it has been painted with color much like RLM02. This color is as pristine as one can be. There is no perfect FS match, 26307 is close in hue, but too light. This paint most probably is not the same "Medium Blue-Green/ Blue-Green Primer/Metal Use Primer" the VVSpage wants us to use, the color is nowhere near the *light blue* FS(2)5622. I would like to know what is the VVSpage's sample if there is one?

The wooden LaGG-3 fuselage part at Vesivehmaa museum uses black (primer?) under the silver paint on interior surfaces! Outside plywood is covered with fabric. Under the fabric surface is of yellow(ish) color which might be primer or fabric dope.

Pete Chalmers has mentioned already in this thread the MiG-3 cockpit side panel which interior was painted blue-green FS 25352. I have not seen this panel, but I known the person who has done the comparison. I trust him 100% in this.

The MiG-3 at Vesivehmaa museum uses green FS34130 also for interiors (more below)."

I found this text on: http://www.fortunecity.com/meltingpot/portland/971/reference/russian.htm

I hope this is useful for your pourposes.

Best regards.

Marco

It?s very useful,at least to me.Thanks for sharing it Marco,greetings.

Martin

Thank you, Marco - this is helpful!  :)

John

Hi guys,
I am glad this is useful for you. The John's discussion about LaGG-3 cockpit colours is helpful for me too  ;). Next time I post new results about LaGG-3 drawings.

Regards.

Marco

Hi Marco,
thank you for the citation. I had already read this text many years ago, but it worts to read it again.  Here I see confirmed, for example, the deductiobs on silver/grey undersurface of I-15bis, and from here I know that some parts with green and light grey colors have survived too... this could give an answer to the question of the dark shade of green of that type. It speaks of an I-16 with silver undersurface too.
Besides there is the citation of light blue A-14 for the undersurface of MiG-3... who knows if this oil color was utilized over the wooden parts too, or if it was simply undistinguishable from AII? If it was similar to the undersurface of LaGG, this could be an explanation. Interesting is that there is not mention of difference of shade of blue and green between wooden and metallic parts.
Massimo

Hi John,
I post some images of cockpit. I hope them will be usefuls for you. I really think that internal cockpit colour was aluminium dope, as well show in the fuel filter area (last image).

(http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/9448/la35.jpg)

(http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/6268/la34.jpg)

(http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/2552/la33.jpg)

(http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/3518/fuelfilter.jpg)

Regards.

Marco

Thanks for the images, Marco! The latest update on the Scalemodels.ru "MiniGroupbuild" thread from "flomaster" shows images of his cockpit details more clearly; he's used aluminum (I think somewhere he said Alclad White Aluminum was the paint he used), although it has a somewhat dull appearance; perhaps he decided to dull-coat it to make it less shiney:
http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aVL3onS

Can anyone provide a translation of the text in the instrument panel drawing below? I've been messing with Babel Fish for about an hour  :( and I think the one on the left is early, and the one on the right is late, but the text inside the brackets on the left-hand one is throwing me - does it mean "including series 6" or "before series 6"? Or have I got early and late backwards?:

(http://s1.postimage.org/jRX0S.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gxjRX0S)

Obviously the difference won't matter a lot in 1/72 scale, but it might be useful to know in the future, regarding the paint colour (the instrument panel in Marco's photo is the type on the right of the drawing).

Thank you!

John

Never mind - I finally got it after one last try: The text in brackets apparently means "not after the 6th (series)"   :-[

So it seems that the drawing on the left shows the panel for aircraft up to and including series 6; the right-hand drawing is for LaGG-3's after series 6!

(I am going to sign up for that Russian-language evening course... ;) )
 
John

Some parts I'm working on for the 1/72 LaGG-3 cockpit, using images of the Vector 1/48 resin set as a guide:

(http://s3.postimage.org/6u5Ji.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=Pq6u5Ji)

Yes, they look a bit (a lot?) scruffy, but they're not finished yet! The seat is from an ICM I-15, modified slightly. Depending on how it looks when it's finished, I might or might not put a cushion on the back. Here's a photo of a real LaGG-3 seat; apparently the padding could also have the more usual vertical seams instead of the upholstery style shown in the photo:

http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gx5at00

John

I think it's a good choice. Me too will use Alclad when I will build the cockpit.


My fianc?e Aksana says me this translation:
Left panel: early instruments panel (not over 6th series)
Right panel: instruments panel following series.

I hope this is useful for you.

Regards.

Marco

Thanks, Marco, and please give my thanks to Aksana, too!

John

I have the Extratech photoetch EX72099 set for the LaGG-3 series 66 (as it's identified on the package, for the Dakoplast kit) and I was considering using the instrument panel, and just ignoring the differences between the late and early panels. However, looking at it now that I understand the difference, I realized that the Extratech panel is the early one, and therefore not correct for a series 66:

http://www.lfok.eu/model_detail_an.php?&artic=EX72099

This will make building a series 1 LaGG-3 easier - out of 16 (yes, sixteen!!!) options, the Authentic decal sheet has 4 series 1 aircraft on it!  :o

By the way, for a more accurate late instrument panel, you would need the Part p/e set, S72070:

http://www.part.pl/s72/s72070.jpg

John

Hi John,
my impression is that second sheet is by much more complete, but I wonder if many details can reasonably be replaced by a thin sheet of metal.
Massimo

Hi Massimo! You're right - unfortunately, photoetched brass is kind of like "bling" (cheap jewellery) for modelbuilders - it's shiney and pretty-looking but sometimes not very practical. Some detail parts, like landing gear doors, can be quite useful, but other parts, like throttle controls or landing gear retraction linkages, are either too small for the average builder to use, or unrealistic because they are only two-dimensional, not three-dimensional. The amount of work building up these parts with white glue or some other material to give them more thickness is probably no less trouble than making the parts from scratch. Sometimes it seems that the person designing the parts is not very familiar with the aircraft the parts are designed for - I keep thinking that some things which would be welcome and would be easy to use are never included. Examples of this are wing slats on the La-5 and late LaGG-3, and the metal panels behind the exhaust outlets on the early LaGG-3.

(It's possible to make these slats and panels from thick decal film (if you can find any) or from the self-adhesive aluminum (not silver fabric) tape used on heating system ductwork - this interesting method is very often seen on Scalemodels.ru, but so far it doesn't seem to have caught on anywhere else.)

John

I found this through checking the Scalemodels.ru forum; the topic is painting procedures related to the LaGG-3:

http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=en&ie=UTF8&sl=ru&tl=en&u=http://wunderwaffe.narod.ru/Magazine/AK/2005_05/13.htm&rurl=translate.google.com&usg=ALkJrhgD2Bu5yRWL8tc2W0yDR7a0niZ4Xw

John

(Hmm - that turned out rather strangely! I'm glad all I had to do was "copy and paste" that URL, and not type the whole thing! ;) )

One thing I keep meaning to mention - sometimes I think what may cause confusion is the difference between
"interior colour" and "cockpit colour". To me, interior colour can mean the paint used to finish all of the inner surfaces of the aircraft, possibly but not necessarily including the cockpit, while cockpit colour is a second colour used to finish the cockpit only. I hope this makes sense! People (including me) may assume that if A-14 is identified as the interior colour, it automatically means the same as cockpit colour, and I'm not sure that this is really true.

Hi John,
this page is interesting. It looks an adaptation of the article of Orlov to LaGG-3. The translation is fairly good, apart for some unclear point. Thank you for posting. Do you know who is the author?
Massimo

Hi John,
is possible to have the original russian text?

Best regards & Happy Easter!!

Marco

Here's the URL for the original, in Russian:
http://wunderwaffe.narod.ru/Magazine/AK/2005_05/13.htm

No indication of the author, though.

Happy Easter to you, too, Marco!

John

It's Aviakolektsiya No 5 from 2005 - Istrebitel LaGG-3.  Author of the main text is N. Yakubovich, author of the section about colours and markings is M. Orlov.
http://wunderwaffe.narod.ru/Magazine/AK/2005_05/

You may download whole thing at
http://www.avialibrary.ru/01/fighters/ussr/lavochkin/index.html

Cheers,
KL