Sovietwarplanes

Hi all,
I need any comment on these profiles. Are they right? Are there photos available?
(http://img840.imageshack.us/img840/579/p40xjohn.th.jpg) (http://img840.imageshack.us/i/p40xjohn.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)
Regards
Massimo

*Edited post subject line - JP*

Oops!  You beat me to it.

Here is a little more info on the request.

I am settled in an undisclosed location and have secretly returned to modeling.  Currently under simultaneous construction are a 1/48 Hasegawa P-40E and AMT P-40K.  I have the internals of both aircraft completed, and have now chosen to proceed with the P-40K until it is finished.

For some curious reason ( ;)) I have chosen a Lend-Lease theme for the K (and probably the E, but that's later).  What I am working from are the two options from the Histoire & Collections monograph shown in the image Massimo posted.

I have been unable to find any good images of these aircraft.  Can anyone comment on their accuracy and if there are actual images of these airframes?  

For a teaser, here are images of the Hasegawa cockpit.

(http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb231/YuriDolgoruki/Youdecide3.jpg)

(http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb231/YuriDolgoruki/Youdecide2.jpg)

HI

photos of both planes are in the compendium edition of "Red Stars" (contains some but not all the pics of Vol 1-3, with some other pics, Massimo has this book I believe)
 
bort 96 is shown middle pic on page 57, while red 26 is shown in starboard side profile (as opposed to the port side profile pic) plane looks overall white or aluminium finish.(note pale colour of underfuselage central bulge visible) 
the profiles do match the pics.

I can't scan here or i'd put them up.
I'll look through the pdf of the Red Stars and see what in those later.

cheers
T

Hi JP:

That is a nice cockpit interior,well done.Which colour did you use for the green?
I?ve seen 2 pictures of Red 26,one of them is this close up:

(http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z27/marluc_foto/P-40/P-40K_red26.jpg)

Hope it helps,greetings.

Martin

and this is the other....didn't even know I had it on this machine... Given the contrast on this and it's getting some sun  I'd be inclined to think it was a very thin caost of white, letting teh under colour 'bleed' through.
(http://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu181/hurricanebuild/P40wintercamobort26.jpg)

maybe better seen here, note very hard shadow of pilot, that's direct sunlight, and worn paint above rear windows.  It also seems the wing is still in OD, and the paint is worn thin on the nose.

(http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z27/marluc_foto/P-40/P-40K_red26.jpg)



here's '96' as well.  This is not the best scan.
(http://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu181/hurricanebuild/P-40k7IAP.jpg)

if only we has a number for the sharkmouth in the background.....

anyone know about the RAF style camo P-40E's we see quite a few photos of?  i assume they are diverted from RAF orders?
cheers
T
 

For what it's worth I plan on doing the P-40K "Red 26" and based on the two photographs I'm going to paint it with a white fuselage and tail, but olive drab wings.  That's what it appears to be painted in to me.  I've seen a colour profile of it (multiple views) with the tail in OD also, but the one photograph disproves that.

Regards,

Jason

Thanks for the responses and images.

Now that I've seen them, I seem to recall that the white aircraft was described as having green wings some place or other.  It is hard to say whether this was painted (or un-painted) in such a way, or that is simply wear from crews walking on the wing servicing the aircraft.  Perhaps even advanced wear from the abrasive properties of snow being blown by the prop.  Would be nice to see the whole wing.  It was very rude of the pilot to stand in the way like that!   :D

In any case, I think to do a generic non-winter scheme for this first one.   I prefer Leningrad units as I lived there for some months.  So really, the only personal preferences for this build are that it represent a northern unit, and not be a winter scheme.  As I haven't any actual decals for these, I was thinking to use red stars and whatever acceptable Russian-style bort number I could find in my decal library.  The question I had for the Leningrad planes was which summer scheme would be under the white?  (Red codes would revert to white, I assume.)  I guess the answer depends on where the Soviets got them from.  As hinted here, the RAF style camo seen on the P-40Es was to meet a requirement for export orders, mainly for the UK.  Ones intended for US use were OD/NG.  Export aircraft were not initially painted in actual RAF colors, but DuPont American approximations of those colors.  Apparently it was also common for a batch of aircraft to be produced to meet an order, and then the aircraft be diverted to meet other needs (kept for US use, etc).  For 96 and 32 here, I can't tell very well from the image, but are those all green?  I suppose since I am open to building a "representative" aircraft, there would be no harm in doing it that way.  I'm not quite ready to paint, so perhaps I will attempt to see if I can research how stocks of K models were distributed in an effort to determine where the Leningrad planes originated.

The upturned shark mouth on the rear aircraft is a distinctive British style.  Every profile I have available to me that features a mouth arced in such a way was British.  If those three are all single color camo, that makes the image more interesting.

For the cockpit I used basic US interior green.  The enamel from Testors Model Master line seemed better to me, but I prefer now to use acrylic, which you see here.  It is just a touch lighter, but looks fine I think.

As Massimo can tell you, I have some unusual luck with my kits.  This AMT kit has been thrown away and rescued three times over the last 4 years or so!  Here is an image that will explain why:

(http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb231/YuriDolgoruki/WarpageAMT.jpg)

But for some reason, I can't quite give up on a kit, and the idea that essentially a whole P-40 was in the recycling bugged me.  The Hasegawa kit is not without difficulties, and those were intentionally engineered into it by Hasegawa.  So the AMT joined the Hasegawa kit on the table and they proceeded together.  Lots and lots of filling and sanding.

Here is another example.  The fit of the parts was not good.  Some of this was from warping, and some of it was just poor kit design.  Notice that the bottom seam is nice and flush, but as you look up, the fit gets increasingly worse.  Notice also that the side engine panels are not long enough and leave gaps at the spinner back plate.

(http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb231/YuriDolgoruki/CIMG4875800x599-1.jpg)

Here you can see where I put in plastic strips and then sanded them in to fill in the voids of the engine access panels.  These are the white sections on either side of the prop pin.

(http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb231/YuriDolgoruki/NoseJob.jpg)

The exhausts on this kit are also poor.  Interestingly, my hobby supplier did not list flared exhaust for the P-40, but did for the P-39.  As they were both Allison engined aircraft, I compared photos and found them to be essentially the same.  In any case, anything would be better than the kit parts, so I got them.  They were designed to fit the Hasegawa kit, which uses a different method of attaching them.  On the Hasegawa kit they drop into holes from outside so that you can paint and install them separate from the aircraft.  Very smart move.  AMT is designed so you have to put them in before you close up the fuselage, which forces you to paint the aircraft and exhausts after they are all together.  Not so smart.

I used the kit exhausts to make a box for the resin ones.  I cut off the pipes and hollowed out the strip, then installed plastic strip on the back.

(http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb231/YuriDolgoruki/Exhaustswitcheroo2.jpg)

After that, these were simply glued inside the fuselage so that I could do the exhaust as Hasegawa designed - separate from the aircraft.

(http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb231/YuriDolgoruki/Exhaustswitcheroo3.jpg)

Here you can see the very obvious difference between the kit parts and the resin ones.

(http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb231/YuriDolgoruki/Exhaustswitcheroo.jpg)

(http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb231/YuriDolgoruki/ExhaustSwitcherooOverhead.jpg)

Hi John,
the fit looks terrible, particularly after having built an Hasegawa, but it's too sad to scrap a kit, I see. I hope to admire photos of the finished model, some day.
Regards
Massimo

There are only a few ways to paint a sharkmouth.  Some of the P-40s delivered to Russia may have come from British contracts, and hence been painted in British colours, but they will not have seen service in British hands (as the retention of obsolete camouflage colours shows) and so will not have had any personal markings added.  It willbe a Russian sharkmouth.  Or tiger, or whatever.

You?re doing a great job on the P-40,I have an AMTech kit P-40E (AMT mouldings) with the same fit issues and a softer plastic.
I can recall that in the pictures of P-40K that I?ve seen,they were in RAF colour scheme.
Keep up the good work,greetings.

Here are some images of the surgery to put on the resin -K tail.

Here the tail is glued on after chopping off the kit tail.  Fun!

(http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb231/YuriDolgoruki/Tail1.jpg)

And here is the tail all sanded in nice and smooth.  This is where the soft plastic would be a nice thing, but actually the resin tail was bulged at the contact point along the sides, so most of the sanding was on that piece.  I simply sanded it at my work table over a bowl of water and kept the tail and the sand paper wet to keep any resin dust from getting into the air.  Now to re-scribe some panel lines, and I can start the painting!

(http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb231/YuriDolgoruki/Tail2.jpg)

Looking good, JP!  I shall be watching with interest.  Once I finish my magnum opus, the 1/32nd scale Hobby Boss single-seater Shturmovik, I might just get back to my VVS P-40's (I've got three - Khlobistov's winter camouflaged P-40C - White 58, a Klimov-powered P-40E - Red 20, and the P-40K - Red 26).  I'd also like to do Boris Safanov's last 'plane, a P-40E, but it appears it may not have been painted in that interesting blue scheme after all.

Regards,

Jason

Hi John,
I see that it's an huge work, and an huge expense, on this model.
Who knows if one can try to bend plastic before building to reduce the amount of filler and file work?
However, it looks really that you saved it from the recycler. I'm highly interested to see it completed.
Regards
Massimo

Update!  No pics.  I am still sanding in the tail of this thing.  Every time I think it's good, I hold it up to a bright light and find a bump, dip, line, etc.  I hate filler!  Anyway, almost done.  My cat tried to help by stealing the clear parts, but I recovered them before he could chew on them.  He got a slap on the back leg that quickly educated him on whether it was worth jumping up on the model table.   >:(

A few more passes with the sand and I may start some paint tonight or tomorrow.

Hi John,
when I was a child, my dog was a killer of models and other toys. I remember a Hs-129 and an armoured car converted into deformed scraps of plastic.
I can't wait to see your model built.
Regards
Massimo

Hi John:

You need to be patience,I know that to improve the joint between plastic and resin parts (most of the times) is a time consuming job and could be very frustrating,but the end result really deserves it.Keep on the good work,greetings

Martin

Hi JP,

I did manage to put the AMT tail to Hasegawa fuselage.
Quite an endeavour too!
I used a medium thickness cyano to finish the work.
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e136/Apex1701/P-40K/DSCF2378.jpg)
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e136/Apex1701/P-40K/002.jpg)

Jean

Hi Jean,
are you sure that the camouflage doesn't continue under the rear windows?
Regards
Massimo

Hey, JP - looking good! I missed this thread somehow. I wish I could say it's because I'm spending so much time building my own models, but that'd be untrue. Anyway, the P-40 is looking very good indeed, especially considering what kind of fit problems you're having to deal with. The cockpit looks great!

And yeah - pets and modelbuilding don't mix. Our three bloody cats are permanently banned from the basement under the threat of a blast from the plant spray bottle, but they're pretty stupid - it's very difficult to train cats to do much more than eat and sleep...   ::)

John

I tried to get the resin to go on my Hasegawa kit, believe me.  However on mine at least, the panel lines did not line up between the resin tail and the Hasegawa fuselage.  Also, with the tail fitted, these non-matching panel lines angled downward on the tail at the seam.  So I elected to deal with the AMT kit problems as easier than trying to make all that line up on the Hasegawa kit.

Regarding the camouflage - I think consensus is that exterior camo on the P-40 did continue in those side windows.

As for the cat - he hasn't even tried to get on the hobby table since our previous incident.  I guess it's good that my cat is at least this much trainable.   :)  To help him, I leave the tips of brushes hanging from the side of the table to make him unsure if he can get up there.  I also put the parts I care about away when I'm done.  He's just a cat after all.   ::)

Yes, well, ours would just see things hanging off the edge of the table as a challenge, not an obstacle! I keep telling them if they'd bothered to evolve opposable thumbs to work a can opener, they could open their own bloody cat food.
John

Sanding is complete!  I can find no trace of a seam and no more filler bumps!  Time to close up the cockpit and prep for painting.  After re-scribing all the crap I sanded away . . .

These will need cleaned up a little, but after a doubtful start, I think the lines are going back in rather well.  It's interesting trying to scribe a line in two different materials and have it come out the same.  Can't wait to see some paint on it!

(http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb231/YuriDolgoruki/Scribing.jpg)

JP and Massimo,


Way to go JP :-))


Maybe there's a consensus on this but some P-40 did not have camo on the inside of the side windows.
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e136/Apex1701/P-40K/matveyev.jpg)

(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e136/Apex1701/P-40K/bell.jpg)

I choose to do my K without the camo.
I will open a thread with my finished P-40K soon.

Jean

You have a point there.  There does not appear to be camo under the windows.  However, that color doesn't appear to match the two colors outside, and I've seen this discussed many times.  Your theory is as good as any I suppose.  What matters is that you are satisfied with it.  ;)

Where it's clearly not the camouflage colour under the glass, I'm going with interior green.  At least that's how I plan to do my Soviet P-40's if I ever get back to them.  By the way, nice work Jean and JP - you'll no doubt have your "Kurtisses" done long before I do.

Regards,

Jason

Damn.  While scribing the panel lines back in, I detected two little seam lines at the tail joint.  Back to the sanding . . .

It looks like filling and sanding never ends.You?ve done a nice work on those panel lines,greetings.

Martin

Hey Apex, do you have the rest of that article?  

Here are the lines scribed in on the other side.  And I am finally satisfied with the joint of the tail.  Being a perfectionist has it's down sides, mainly that it kills production.  But my goal was to be unable to detect in any way where this new tail was attached - no seam, line, bump, bulge, change in shape, etc.  The only way I can spot it now is from the two different colored materials.  (This personality trait bodes not so well for the Hasegawa kit and the ridiculous number of fuselage plugs they opted for, presumably to make the kit easier for them to make, but no cheaper than any of their other kits.)

(http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb231/YuriDolgoruki/Scribing2.jpg)

So now it's time to decide on the paint scheme.  As I said, I want to do a Leningrad area P-40K in summer scheme.  Outside of those preferences, I don't care, so you can all help guide me in the painting.  Now I have some questions on those damn back windows.   ::)  I think it's fair to say it should be in the British temperate land scheme.  I'll read back through the thread here and look for ideas.  Also will go through the decals and see what I have for bort numbers.

Well done John,the panel lines look very good.Greetings.

Martin

Looks excellent; great photos, too! I've been having the same challenge redoing panel lines on a vacuform I'm working on; one tool that works well is one of those very fine files which has a flat surface on one side and a slightly corved surface on the other, and tapers to a sharp point at the end. The toothed edge of the file is almost like a knife, and it can be used to extend panel lines from an undamaged area across the places where the original lines have been sanded away or filled in by going slowly and using a very light touch for the first few strokes.

John

Here's what I have in the decal library.  Since I have no decals for an actual P-40K, these would all be essentially generic representations.

First up, some generic white numbers in a hand painted style.

White 27 from a MiG-3 sheet:
(http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb231/YuriDolgoruki/White27.jpg)

White 29 from an Il-2 sheet:
(http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb231/YuriDolgoruki/White29.jpg)

White 24 from a Ki-84 sheet (Japanese).  Problem with these is that they are old Tamiya decals and really more of a creamy yellowed white:
(http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb231/YuriDolgoruki/Whitish24.jpg)

And now my favorite.  These are some oddball decals for armor, but they are the right size more or less and have inscriptions!  For these, either the number White 41 or 53, and the Mstitel inscription along the spine:
(http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb231/YuriDolgoruki/ArmorNumbers.jpg)
(http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb231/YuriDolgoruki/Inscription.jpg)

Thoughts?  I suppose if it had to be an actual aircraft, I could try masking the number for an actual aircraft.

John, I like the red inscription "Smert' Nemetskim Okkupantam!" - "Death to the German Invaders!" - if you're just making a 'plane up, you've got to use that inscription!  "Mstitel"'s nice also.

Regards

Jason

Hi JP,

I think you manage to do a fine job with the tail.

Glad you like my K.
More pictures of the build here:
http://www.master194.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=54893
It's in french but if you have any question feel free to ask.

As for a K in the Leningrad area I checked what I had in my files.
Not too much since the Ks were rare in the USSR. A bit over 300 on a total of around 2500 P-40s.
I got some info on a red 26 in the winter 1943.
From Planes and Pilots 03 - Curtiss P-40 from 1939 to 1945
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e136/Apex1701/26rouge.jpg)

From Red stars 3:
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e136/Apex1701/26rouge_1.jpg)
and
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e136/Apex1701/26rouge_2.jpg)
Red stars says it's natural metal but I doubt it.

Of course you can do Kuznecov white 23 like mine  :D

I have also the decals for Denisov's K.
But it's in the Black sea and the are supposed to be Earth, Middlestone and azure blue.
But I was unable to confirm this scheme.
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e136/Apex1701/P-40K/DSCF2363.jpg)
If you want this decoration I can put the decals in the mail free of charge.

>  I think it's fair to say it should be in the British temperate land scheme.
Yes and no. Colors where US interpretation of the brit colors and made by Du Pont in the USA.

Lot of info on the subject here:
http://amair4raf.blogspot.com/

All the best.

Jean

You talked me into it - I will begin painting in preparation for Denisov's aircraft.  Thanks for the offer.  I will message you my address.  Still, the desire to make a Mstitel . . . I will need another kit!   ::)

Here's another little update.  AMT decided to make the attachment points of the clear parts in a really bad place - right on the glass part and not the frame.  The red arrows depict where these attachment points were.  Despite my attempt to carefully remove the part, there were two bumps from the sprue right on the front canopy!  What a bad engineering decision.  I tried carefully cutting them away, but there were still two annoying little distortions in the "glass".  There was only one thing to do - sand them off.  Yes, I fully sanded these clear parts the same as any plastic.  Can you tell?   ;)

(http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb231/YuriDolgoruki/lunapic_130757945011952_6.gif)

I found this profile elsewhere -

(http://asisbiz.com/il2/P-40-RAF-SAAF/USSR-7CHF-IAP-W50-Denisov/images/0-P-40K-USSR-7CHF-IAP-W50-Denisov-Black-Sea-Fleet-1943-0A.jpg)

I suppose this one is done in the desert colors of middlestone and dark earth?

Some interesting discussion on it can be read here, where some of you have already been engaged   :D :
http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/index.php?showtopic=213929&st=0&p=2032705&

Jean, an interesting thing about your build at the other forum was this image:
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e136/Apex1701/P-40K/DSCF2554.jpg)
The color under the rear glass appears to be a third color, but an earlier photo shows that this is actually the same brown.  Without a clear, direct color image of that part of a plane, there can be no way to be sure what color is under there it seems.

Another shot of the clarity of the clear parts after sanding and subsequent restoration.

(http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb231/YuriDolgoruki/ClearParts2.jpg)

I'm catching up on some of these forum posts since I've been away so long.  All I can say is -wow- did I miss a lot of controversy!

Hello John:

You`ve done a good job on the windshield.Regarding the P-40Ks,I?ve this picture of three birds captioned as belonging to 7 IAP and the last one in the line has a sharkmouth:

(http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z27/marluc_foto/P-40/P-40k7IAP.jpg)

(http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z27/marluc_foto/P-40/P-40k7IAP_sharkmouth.jpg)

Hope it helps,greetings.

Martin

Hi John,
really a good job, the transparence is very good. What was the final treatment to smooth it?
To gue canopies without external frames, I often use 'vinavil' white glue. It assumes a matt finish, and is much less visible both of the unglued thickness of the plastic, both of a surface glued with a more glossy adhesive. Besides, it can be removed with water if unsatisfied of the result.
Regards
Massimo

@ marluc - thanks for the image.  It is a pity it is almost impossible to tell any more than the type of aircraft and the number.  It would have been nice if the Soviets took pretty pictures like the Germans did.  In this image, without being able to see the tail clearly, the only indication that they are Ks are the fishtail style of exhausts.

@ Massimo - the trick with clear parts.  Use the finer grades of sandpaper from the Testors packs, or any manufacturer really.  Cut the attachment points down as much as you can, then use the 2 or 3 finest grades of sandpaper in sequence to sand it flat.  The glass part will naturally be all scratched up, but not very rough.  Then take a piece of heavy paper and rub it until it is almost clear again.  The heavy paper will do some fine sanding and polish the plastic at the same time.  When you can make it no clearer with the paper rubbing, then dip it into some acrylic floor wax.  Here, it is called Future floor polish.  At first the acrylic will appear to pool in places, but it will dry very flat and very clear.  In many cases, the vision through the glass is actually better than the original part.

Using this method, you can sand away as much as you like on any clear part and not have to worry about it.  You could even thin these parts out if you wanted and restore them in the same way.

As to the Denisov aircraft, here is what I understand based on readings of various forums.  I basically have two questions for which there probably are no solid answers.  **NOTE - I am no expert on anything!  I just keep the lights on here and build models from time to time.  :)  I do enjoy trying to figure this stuff out, tho; so here goes!

First, agreed that it is most likely in British desert camouflage.  If the guy says so in his diary, we have to go with that.  British markings have been obviously over-painted in the profile.  On what is this based?  Other than very early deliveries of P-40B/Cs, almost every image of a P-40E and later I can find in Soviet service has no visible over-painting of previous British markings.

Second, what color under the glass???  I checked the Hasegawa kits I have with British desert AF markings, and the color call out says either interior green or khaki green.  I have always heard that camo continued under those windows, and yet we have in this thread a color image clearly showing interior green.  In all the other color images I can find, the color was the base external camo color.  So it would seem Jean was most correct in his P-40 posted here.

I suppose in the end it will be anyone's guess.  But for now I think British desert AF colors, no over-painting of previous British markings, and anything I want under the glass.  

"What color is under the glass?" is probably the most asked question after "What is this Future stuff and how is it used?"

Under the glass is the exterior camouflage color, the glass was installed after painting in the factory.

I.e., Olive Drab or Dark Earth/Green, depending on the camo pattern.

That interior colors were used is one of those hard-to-die modeling myths.

Vedran

Hi John,
thank you for the answer. I've already heard of Future, but I don't know where to find it here. What is its producer? Is there any matt version of it too?

Regards
Massimo

What I liked was the really neat fit of the canopy to the fuselage - the joint looks perfect.

Regarding Future, if I can provide a reply on that one, the manufacturer is S.C. Johnson. It's now called "Pledge with Future Shine", not just "Future" any more. It's an acrylic floor polish; I don't know if there's anything about this particular brand that makes it better for modelling purposes than any other acrylic floor polish, though. I'm sure Johnson's marketing department would like us to believe it is!

(The Other) John

Fore more infos on Future. Read this web page:
http://www.swannysmodels.com/TheCompleteFuture.html

Jean

On to the wing . . . yeah.  This is as much trouble as the tail.  The fit frankly sucks.  I won't burden the thread with "before" images, but rather say the fit of the front wing to fuselage under the engine did not match up, and there is the well-known gap at the trailing edge.  Also, the wings as moulded sit flat with no dihedral, where the P-40 had a very pronounced dihedral.

In order to help the leading edge of the wing better match up with the fuselage, I installed a couple of stints made of sprue rod.  These were more or less just cut and cut/sanded to length by repeated test fitting until it got me where I wanted to be.  There is one immediately in front of the resin cockpit bottom and one further forward in the radiator opening.

(http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb231/YuriDolgoruki/Splints.jpg)

I intentionally left some gap in the wing root area.  The reason for this is that I needed some space where I could push up the wings to get the dihedral I needed.  However, AMT/ERTL molded solid plastic across the front of the wing.  So I just took a razor saw and cut a slit.

(http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb231/YuriDolgoruki/Slit.jpg)

Now after I attach the wing, I can push up the tips and get my dihedral.  And when I push up the wings, the gaps I left will close and be superglued.

Thanks John for this WIP,the tips are very useful for my AMTech P-40E,it will be a Klimov engined bird.Greetings.

Martin

I am currently dealing with the fact that the rear windows on my P-40 cracked.  I also cracked a second set from another kit just clipping them off the sprue because the plastic is so hard and brittle.  I'm not sure what I can do as I now have no back windows for my aircraft.  :(

In the meantime, I found this video.  P-40s going to Russia through Iran.  This might explain why there was usually no overpainting seen on these planes.

http://www.criticalpast.com/video/65675050206_Borghi-Airport_P-40-aircraft_A-40-aircraft_A-20-aircraft_A-36-aircraft

At about 1:13 you can see a K enter the frame.

Hi John,
what a frustrating situation. I don't think that you will buy a third one, isn't it? This publicity for the AMT kit is terrible.
Maybe you could rebuild them from clear plastic sheet. The frames could be made simply with the thickness of paint, if you mask and spray them.
Regards
Massimo

From our old friend Mario Holly over at HyperScale:

"This profile in AML sheet originates with Russian artist Mikhail Bykov who is known for doing quite decent research. Czech language book featuring the same profile states that archival photographs, and other documents, were used in cooperation with gen.Denisov."

Anyone have more information on these details?

Massimo - no, I will not buy a third.  I'm trying to contact the Hobbycraft company, since they now sell these kits, and ask about having a few sets of replacement parts.  I didn't do all this work to end up with an incomplete kit that I could never finish.  But now I have two kits in this situation.   >:( >:(  If I can find some suitable clear plastic sheet, it may be better to make my own.  In any case, with all the problems, the Amtech P-40K kit really should be considered a short-run, multi-media kit in the truest sense like some of the Fonderie Minature kits.  I can't think of any part that actually just went to together and didn't require a lot of work..

This is very funny.  The flaw in the original window piece was a distortion because the piece had been bent.  I had nothing to lose, so I put it in the oven on low heat, and the distortion is gone!  I still have one ruined set of glass and therefore a second kit I can't build, but for now, I can resume building this monster.  :D

Hi JP
Maybe not as bad you think,
Now IIRC the AMT kit is the basis for the Italeri rebox P-40M/N kit, which has two sets of canopies, as the N model has the new greenhouse rear section.  quick check...http://www.hyperscale.com/2007/reviews/kits/italeri2658reviewbg_1.htm
Yep, That means the P-40 M canopies is spare, and so are the rear window panels.... I'm looking at doing P-40 N so may have these spare, but where in the world are you? 

let me know

cheers
T

That's very good news.  Must be a marketing ploy by Italeri to get people to buy their kit!  I got your message and will answer you there.

BTW, be careful when cutting the clear parts off the trees.  The plastic on the two sets I ruined looks very good, but four times in a row when I clipped the part, the attachment point split and this split went up into the part itself.  

So I'm waiting on some clear parts and some Eduard masks so I don't have to cut on the clear parts I just treated with Future because I'm worried the tape will peel off the future.  So I decided to put the wings on, since I have to do that anyway, and I can't figure out why I can't make the wings align evenly.  Then I notice this:

(http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb231/YuriDolgoruki/lunapic_130904589761425_2.gif)

The two edges of the fuselage where the wing goes on are totally different!  The top edge is narrow and tall, and the bottom edge is flat and shallow.  So the wing not only doesn't center, it sits too high on the starboard side.  Another correction underway!  And as bad as it seems, I have to admit I'm kind of enjoying beating all the challenges this kit is throwing at me.   ;D

Hi John,
I suppose that the second kit will go directly in the scrap box.
Regards
Massimo

I'm going to hold onto it in the belief that perhaps this current kit is the result of some heat damage or something.  For sure I won't do another AMT P-40 right after this.  I won't even finish that Hasegawa P-40 next, since it will require as much sanding and rescribing, even if it is not warped or badly molded.  Maybe a nice Lend-Lease 1/48 Tamiya Spitfire Vb.  That should be quite a treat.

Ok, so the canopy masks are ordered and on the way.  I tried cutting my own, but it didn't work out.

In the meantime, I got the wing all set up and glued on.  I was holding the wing by hand to dry the glue, but it became apparent after 20 minutes of this that it would need more time to dry.  Mostly because my wing was naturally flat and I was attempting to add dihedral.  So I set up some old Russian textbooks to help me out.  Nice floppy soft cover ones are great because when you put the one on top, it flops over instead of sliding off.  

(http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb231/YuriDolgoruki/Dihedral.jpg)

Anyway, I'm going to leave it this way overnight just to be sure.  I wouldn't want to get to eager to go on and have a wing root crack open!  Perhaps while I wait, I'll start sanding on that Hasegawa kit.  It went together badly, I'm afraid.  I have heard some people proclaim it as "unbuildable".  It's not that bad, but it is definitely NOT what you expect when you buy a Hasegawa kit.  For reference, this http://www.rollmodels.net/nreviews/airplanes/48hasep40e/48hasep40e.php is the best article I have found regarding how to overcome the main fit problems with this kit.  The key is the plastic strip to space the spine behind the cockpit.  I missed this and now I have a terrible fit for that part.  I think I will score the seams with a knife and try to break the pieces apart and try it again.

EDIT - Success!

The left side of the spine was glued on first, and so it fit well.  The second piece left a horrible step at the back seam because I didn't realize Hasegawa had poorly designed these parts.  I managed to break off the piece that was very bad and correct this.  Red arrow points to strip of plastic used to correctly space these parts.

(http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb231/YuriDolgoruki/Correct1.jpg)

Here you can see there is no large step at the back seam anymore, with a light shining from behind to highlight.  Red arrow points to where a very large step used to be.

(http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb231/YuriDolgoruki/Correct2.jpg)

Hi John,
it looks that one has to face unsatifactoy kits in every scale to obtain a model of this important plane. Such fitting difficulties would be unexpected for any kit. However, they look to be resolved now. Thank you for your fine report.
Regards
Massimo

I'm also not a great fun of the Future/Klear/Whatever. Instead, I polish my canopies with Tamiya polishing compound or equivalent stuff. This doesn't add a thin film of the lacquer to the canopy. Try this!

Cheers,

AaCee

I think I will.  I'm also not very happy with my Squadron modeling putty, so I may try the Tamiya stuff.  The Squadron putty is far too granular (for me, and I have both the green and the white)and dries very lumpy.  This makes it much more work to try and fill a seam, because now I have to also try and even out the putty.  And frequently there are spots in it where I knock out one of the grains of sand that seems to be in the stuff.  Strangely, the best putty I ever used was some basic Testors putty I found in St Petersburg.  It was the only stuff I could find at the time.  But it was very thin and there were no grains of sand in it  When I put it on the model, it was liquid enough to settle into the seams and dry flat, but not run or drip.  It was perfect.  I bought a tube of it here in the states, but it is not the same.

I try and stay away from putty at all costs.  There have been too many times where I was sure I had allowed it enough time to dry (a month or more) and had sanded the seam perfectly smoothly only to see it reappear a few months later as the putty continued to dry and contract.  For that reason, I normally fill in small seams with Testors glue - it dries smooth and hard, and it also strengthens the joint (if it's resin I use CA glue for the same effect).

Regards,

Jason

I've sometimes mixed nitro putty and CA to make a fast-drying putty. Only, it can be worked for few seconds only. And functions well only with a relatively dry putty, an old tube.
Regards
Massimo

Item 1.  I split the discussion on schemes to a separate post.  We can discuss the construction of this particular P-40K here, and schemes in general in the other topic.  At some point, the schemes post can be moved into the research section of the forum.

Item 2.  Did a little work on this AMT kit...first some easy stuff.  I decided to not use putty, but rather use fine strips of plastic to fill these gaps. 

On the trailing edges of the wings at the fuselage, where this famous gap exists on all AMT P-40 kits as I understand it.
(http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb231/YuriDolgoruki/IMAG0123.jpg)

And on one side only where the wing joins the front fuselage behind the engine.
(http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb231/YuriDolgoruki/IMAG0124.jpg)

It's just easier to do in my opinion.  You just shave the plastic down with a knife, and then sand it a few times.  No need to do it several times because of a filler putty that is a different consistency of the plastic around it, lumpy, grainy, and so on.

And as with everything else on this kit, I discovered a new problem.  Examine the trailing edges of the tail planes.  :'(
(http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb231/YuriDolgoruki/IMAG0126.jpg)

Taken one by one, none of these little problems is a very big deal.  But so far I can't think of any action I have tried to take on this kit where something like this wasn't waiting to delay my progress.  I won't be throwing out my other AMT kits (yet), but I sure won't be in a hurry to start another one anytime soon.  More so because I was able to obtain a carton of Hasegawa P-40Ks.  :)

You?re doing a good work,the AMT kit has very nice surface detail but a lot of fitting issues.Greetings.

Martin

A small update.  Here are some images of the wing fared into the fuselage.  It took 4-5 nights of sanding sessions to get it where I wanted it. 

Here you can see the trailing edge where I added the plastic strips.  (You can still see them in the first image.)  This may have helped overall, but it still took forever to get it looking right.  Mostly because the wing itself was short, but then also because the place at the fuselage where it met the wing had bumps.  Maybe the plastic got pushed up when it was still warm, and this is why there is the gap in the first place??

(http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb231/YuriDolgoruki/Trailing1.jpg)

Here it is after I scribed in the lines for the flaps after sanding it all away.

(http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb231/YuriDolgoruki/Trailing2.jpg)

Here is the attachment point near the front.  This was more complicated area to sand, but it went much faster than the back edge because the plastic here was in no way deformed.  Also, re-scribing the curved panel lines and putting the rivets back was easier.  This was done in the first two nights while I continued to work on the back edge...

(http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb231/YuriDolgoruki/Leading2.jpg)

(http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb231/YuriDolgoruki/Leading1.jpg)

I'm going to ditch these tail planes and take the ones out of the other AMT kit.  I'm tired of working on such things and just want to BUILD A MODEL!!!   >:(  And at that, I've run out of things I need to do before I start painting.  So tonight I mask the canopy parts and see how far I get before bed time.

Hi JP,
what an huge work! However, I'm happy to see that the model wasn't abandoned despite all the difficulties.
Regards
Massimo

I've put far too much work into it to ditch it now!   ;D  But honestly, there aren't many parts left, so there can't be much of this correction work left to do.  (And I hope I don't regret thinking that...)

Great filling and sanding work,it looks very good so far.Gretings.

Martin

Another little update.  So, moving on to the little bits . . . next up was the landing gear.  Up to now, I'd been so focused on the wing/fuselage issues that I hadn't even bothered to look at this.  Naturally, there was some work to do here, but nothing on the order of the problems I've already encountered.  I cut the landing gear parts out and began to test fit them.  Here is essentially what the instructions tell you to do and what the parts look like:

(http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb231/YuriDolgoruki/Geardoorstock.jpg)

The question that immediately popped into my head was, why have that little door a separate piece if it just sits there like that?  Certainly it would have been easier to just mold it there as part of the wing.  So a quick look at a reference pic showed this:

(http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb231/YuriDolgoruki/Gear3.jpg)

Well, that explains it.  The little strut in the reference pic is an I-shaped piece of aluminum.  My eyes are not so good that I can replicate that detail exactly, but I can surely do better than the kit suggests.  So out comes the plastic strip.

(http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb231/YuriDolgoruki/Gear1.jpg)

Now, the little door piece was molded solid like a door stop, so I just needed to sand it out to make it thin(ner) like the real thing, et voila!

(http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb231/YuriDolgoruki/Gear2.jpg)

Perhaps not 100% museum accuracy, but better than it was.  Maybe if I think of it I will add some bolt heads on either end of that strip to make it look more the part.

The added landing gear leg struts are a good detail,keep on with the good work.Greetings.

Martin

Well, don't get too excited, but as I have a few days off this Christmas, I think I will take a look at resuming work on this troubled P-40.  It's a good thing I left myself some bread crumbs here on the forum to help me figure out where I was with the thing, and where I wanted to go with it.  I think I have too many years (by now perhaps as many as 7) and memories associated with this poor little kit to leave it undone.  My 17 year old son was so much younger and speaking Italian when I started it.   :'(

PS - Massimo, help me find a job in Trieste so I can come back!  :)

PPS - Yes, I just seriously necro'd this post.  ;)

Hi JP,
this model looks to have assumed a role of memories holder. I will be glad to see it done.
A job in Trieste? I can try... but it's not the best period to come into Italy to look for a job. :-\
Regards
Massimo

JP,

Thanks for sharing.
Looking good.
Curious for the result when finished.

Michel

Unfortunately, I just sat down to re-greet my old project.  Immediately I noticed many things in my hobby space which did not belong.  It appears someone decided to use my closed hobby area for storage while I was out of the country.  What I noticed next was far more upsetting - large parts of the P-40 no longer on the desk...apparently, they also let the cats go in there.

Time to crawl around on the floor and see if I can find everything.  Wish me luck.

 :'(

Good luck indeed, John!  Luckily I don't have to worry about small creatures, bipedal or otherwise getting at my kits/models.  When my twin nephews visit (nearly three now!), they are not allowed around Unkie Jason's models.

Regards,

Jason

I thought I had a similar arrangement.  A very small room with an always closed door with nothing in there but my models.  There was no reason for anyone to go in there.  Funny what liberties others take when you aren't around.

Good news though.  I found all of the pieces.  Only the spinner had been stepped on, but I think I've already got it rounded out.  Going to finish the landing gear and see what else I need to do to start putting some paint on.  Starting with finding my airbrush...

I hate cats...  >:(

John