Sovietwarplanes

Modeling Soviet Warplanes => Colors, schemes, & research => Topic started by: John Thompson on March 12, 2011, 02:22:57 AM



Title: Series of MiG-3 Photos on ebay.de
Post by: John Thompson on March 12, 2011, 02:22:57 AM
Go here and scroll down:
http://cgi.ebay.de/27x-Fotos-MIG-3-Russen-Flugzeug-Bucker-181-BRUCH-/170612232685?pt=Militaria&hash=item27b94811ed

Approximately 10 photos of a wrecked MiG-3 taken from different angles or while being loaded onto a truck for disposal.

Also, scroll past the Bucker 181 for two shots of I-16 landing gear wreckage.

John


Title: Re: Series of MiG-3 Photos on ebay.de
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on March 12, 2011, 05:41:17 PM
Hi John,
really sharp photos, they looks made by a true photographer.
Thank you for sharing.
Massimo


Title: Re: Series of MiG-3 Photos on ebay.de
Post by: warhawk on March 13, 2011, 09:15:54 AM
I hate to see one of my favorite fighters in this state...  :-X

Anyway, thanks for sharing, superb photos!


Title: Re: Series of MiG-3 Photos on ebay.de
Post by: learstang on March 13, 2011, 04:45:15 PM
Warhawk, I know what you mean.  Despite their historical (and modelling) significance, I don't particularly enjoy seeing pictures of wrecked IL-2's, especially with some soldiers clowning around on them like it's all just one big party.

Regards,

Jason


Title: Re: Series of MiG-3 Photos on ebay.de
Post by: JP on March 13, 2011, 05:13:24 PM
Historical context, lads, historical context.  At the time, it was one big party.

I almost cry when I see images of all those beautiful warbirds being chopped up after the war - on all sides. 


Title: Re: Series of MiG-3 Photos on ebay.de
Post by: learstang on March 13, 2011, 10:29:27 PM
That's a good point, JP.  These were young men after all.  However, I do notice as the war progressed there was no more clowning around on those silly Soviet 'planes they had shot down.  Party over.  I agree with the sadness of seeing all those 'planes being chopped up after the war - it was necessary, but sad nonetheless.  Rows of B-26 Marauders sitting on their tails because the engines had been removed.  What's amazing about the Soviets is that I believe not a single Shturmovik was set aside for preservation - not a one.

Regards,

Jason


Title: Re: Series of MiG-3 Photos on ebay.de
Post by: John Thompson on March 14, 2011, 11:05:57 PM
I always believe that kind of photo is useful because it shows the internal structure of the aircraft. However, here's a good shot of an I-153 with no visible damage which I just found today; consider this my apology! ;)

(http://s1.postimage.org/2ufmdwxhg/I_153_89.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/2ufmdwxhg/)

It has the "circle in star" insignia; it seems to be painted in AE-9 and AII Al, although the fabric-covered areas of the fin and rudder look darker than the fuselage - more AE-9?

Compare it to this, which is supposed to be the "standard":

(http://s2.postimage.org/4d0kbdo2s/image.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/4d0kbdo2s/)

John


Title: Re: Series of MiG-3 Photos on ebay.de
Post by: learstang on March 15, 2011, 03:16:22 AM
You're correct about the utility of photographs of damaged aircraft, John.  I've learned a lot about the internal layout of the Shturmovik not just from "Barbarossa Victim" photographs, but also recent pictures of wrecks.  I agree that that I-153 appears to have AE-9 on the fin and rudder.  Those crafty commies, they did things like that just to confuse us bourgeoisie modellers.

Regards,

Jason


Title: Re: Series of MiG-3 Photos on ebay.de
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on March 15, 2011, 08:24:54 AM
Hi John,
thank you for sharing this good image.
I often wonder if the color of the fabric could be AII grey instead of aluminium, at least on some planes. I know that they are different, but only few photos show really some metallic shining on the rear fuselage.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: Series of MiG-3 Photos on ebay.de
Post by: John Thompson on March 15, 2011, 04:21:47 PM
On the subject of vandalized aircraft, some may remember this, my favourite I-16, from another thread; here it is early in its captivity, still looking clean and even ready to fly:

(http://s1.postimage.org/339du8hac/image.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/339du8hac/)

The other day I found yet another image (I've got 13, so far) of the same I-16; sadly, the souvenir hunters have been here:

(http://s2.postimage.org/vbbkgvdw/x11.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/vbbkgvdw/)

By the way, this aircraft is one of the decal options on one of the reissues of Amodel's 1/72 I-16, although I think their choices for colours, including the numeral 1 on the rudder, are possibly incorrect.

John


Title: Re: Series of MiG-3 Photos on ebay.de
Post by: learstang on March 15, 2011, 04:57:43 PM
It's strange how the exhaust stains stop at the rear edge of the cowling - I wonder if the fuselage was very recently repainted before capture?  It's a strange effect and if I saw it on a model, absent photographic evidence, I'd think the modeller had made a mistake.  It's possible that some of that dark "stain" might actually be black paint, to hide the exhaust stains, but some of it does indeed appear to be from the exhausts.

Regards,

Jason


Title: Re: Series of MiG-3 Photos on ebay.de
Post by: KL on March 15, 2011, 06:20:29 PM
(http://s1.postimage.org/2ufmdwxhg/I_153_89.jpg)

It has the "circle in star" insignia; it seems to be painted in AE-9 and AII Al, although the fabric-covered areas of the fin and rudder look darker than the fuselage - more AE-9?

... I agree that that I-153 appears to have AE-9 on the fin and rudder.  Those crafty commies, they did things like that just to confuse us bourgeoisie modellers.

I can?t believe it!!!  :o
Two first line players and they both stumbled on basics!!!  :(

Oil paint AE-9 - for metal only!  For fabric - nitrocellulose paints only!!!

Nitrocellulose varnishes stretched fabric and increased its strength.  Four layers of clear AI-N were optimal.  Number of layers increased, and in 1940 four layers of AI-N were followed with a coat of AII Al (to reflect UV light and protect fabric) and two coats of AII Z (camouflage colour).

If you believe that tailfin and ruder were gray, it was AII Gray.

Hope this helps.  :)
KL


Title: Re: Series of MiG-3 Photos on ebay.de
Post by: KL on March 15, 2011, 06:31:07 PM
Hi John,  :)
thanks for sharing those photos!

(http://s1.postimage.org/339du8hac/image.jpg)

(http://s2.postimage.org/vbbkgvdw/x11.jpg)

The fuselage is lighter than cowling on the first picture and the cowling is lighter than fuselage on the second.  Fuselage of first I-16 looks metallic and second looks gray.  IMHO, It's all about the lighting conditions.

I believe that the plain was in its original 1937 colours when captured in 1941:  silver AII Al fuselage and light gray AE-9 metal parts.

Cheers,  8)
KL


Title: Re: Series of MiG-3 Photos on ebay.de
Post by: Massimo Tessitori on March 15, 2011, 08:53:34 PM
Hi all,
nice photos indeed.
Jason, I see exhaust stains on the landing gear doors only.
About the sides, I suppose they were washed, or perhaps the airflow from the gap behind the cowling gave some protections against smoke. To tell the truth, I don't remember to have seen many I-16s with stain on their sides.
Regards
Massimo


Title: Re: Series of MiG-3 Photos on ebay.de
Post by: KL on March 15, 2011, 09:32:44 PM
...some soldiers clowning around on them like it's all just one big party.


(http://i536.photobucket.com/albums/ff322/altyn73/AV112010/av131102.jpg)


Title: Re: Series of MiG-3 Photos on ebay.de
Post by: learstang on March 15, 2011, 10:29:29 PM
I can?t believe it!!!  :o
Two first line players and they both stumbled on basics!!!  :(

Oil paint AE-9 - for metal only!  For fabric - nitrocellulose paints only!!!

Nitrocellulose varnishes stretched fabric and increased its strength.  Four layers of clear AI-N were optimal.  Number of layers increased, and in 1940 four layers of AI-N were followed with a coat of AII Al (to reflect UV light and protect fabric) and two coats of AII Z (camouflage colour).

If you believe that tailfin and ruder were gray, it was AII Gray.

Hope this helps.  :)
KL


Sorry Konstantin - we should know better! :-[  Or is it that you're a part of the commie plot to confuse us bourgeoisie Western modellers - you are Russian, after all. ;)  About that photograph - is that an R-5 (it looks like it has an offset enclosed cockpit like some of the R-5's did)?

Regards,

Jason


Title: Re: Series of MiG-3 Photos on ebay.de
Post by: John Thompson on March 15, 2011, 11:34:05 PM

I can?t believe it!!!  :o
Two first line players and they both stumbled on basics!!!  :(

Oil paint AE-9 - for metal only!  For fabric - nitrocellulose paints only!!!

Nitrocellulose varnishes stretched fabric and increased its strength.  Four layers of clear AI-N were optimal.  Number of layers increased, and in 1940 four layers of AI-N were followed with a coat of AII Al (to reflect UV light and protect fabric) and two coats of AII Z (camouflage colour).

If you believe that tailfin and ruder were gray, it was AII Gray.

Hope this helps.  :)
KL


Well, thanks for that, although if I'm a first line player, it must be a very small team! I feel more like the guy in the bucket under the wing of that ARK-5 (?) in the photo you posted... ;)

Okay, AII Gray it is!


I believe that the plain was in its original 1937 colours when captured in 1941:  silver AII Al fuselage and light gray AE-9 metal parts.

Cheers,  8)
KL

Yes, that's what I've always believed too, or at least since learning that the cowling wasn't some decorative colour like white or yellow, probably thanks to you and/or Massimo, or maybe Mario Holly!

On the other hand, I think the dark areas behind the exhausts were overpainted roughly in black as a sort of decoration, so that exhaust stains wouldn't be so visible, as Jason also suggested.

John