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Author Topic: Prewar colors of Soviet and Spanish planes.  (Read 31659 times)
GoNzA
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« on: April 21, 2011, 03:54:10 AM »

I've removed the images of the sheet on request of Anatoliy. The post is continuing about prewar Russian and Spanish colors.
Massimo  
« Last Edit: May 24, 2011, 11:31:56 PM by Massimo Tessitori » Logged

Best regards,
Anatoliy
KL
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« Reply #1 on: April 21, 2011, 07:28:16 PM »

Colours are still questionable, but you should keep in mind following:

?   I-16s exported to Spain were made between autumn 1936 and spring 1938
?   АIIз (AII Green) was used from 1938
?   АIIг  (AII Blue) was used from mid-1940
?   There is no evidence of any gray or silver paint used for undersides on Spanish I-16s or I-15s

Following are fragments of 1938 I-16 Type 10






To make a long story short and simple:
All I-16s exported to Spain (from Oct 1936 to June 1938) were painted in old mid-1930es paints:  ?Dark Protective Green? for upper surfaces and ?Light Blue? for undersides.

Cheers,
Konstantin
« Last Edit: May 24, 2011, 11:33:12 PM by Massimo Tessitori » Logged
xan
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« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2011, 01:01:06 AM »

With the google traduction I see the second decoration would by the one I'm loocking for , great!

About the colours of the planes of the republican planes, I'm not sure at all AII colours are the more indicated...
I live in the basque country near the border and I know a lot of modelers who are very found of civil war period.

they do all agree with the idea that republican planes had they own colours.

there is a fantastic forum about spanish war planes

http://www.network54.com/Forum/394728/

a post comments a great discovery:

A Natacha (polikarpov RZ) was find in a farm where it stays all this time along (it means that the colours where protected of the weather)


specialist went to study the paint and their conclusion was that the green was very closed to RLM 83 (much darker than AII green)
wich it means un gunze colours H423 for the green or humbrol and H323

Here is a I-16 made by a fried of mine with this colours:







and a letov by a spanish modelers inthis forum:





Xan





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GoNzA
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« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2011, 01:59:38 AM »

Hi
Thank you for correction!

?No tocan? - It is bad to draw that that don't understand Smiley. It is good what to alter "n" in "r" easy.



All I-16s exported to Spain (from Oct 1936 to June 1938) were painted in old mid-1930es paints:  ?Dark Protective Green? for upper surfaces and ?Light Blue? for undersides.
About the colours of the planes of the republican planes, I'm not sure at all AII colours are the more indicated...
I live in the basque country near the border and I know a lot of modelers who are very found of civil war period.

they do all agree with the idea that republican planes had they own colours.

Konstantin
Xan

You are very possibly right!
I'm not sure at all AII colours too. There is a table from monography "Colour of the Soviet aircraft" by Varlamov and Orlov. The sense "около 1937" leaves many variants.



Fortunately it doesn't mention the decals  as it contains only colors of letters and signs, and each master chooses color  of model itself at own discretion.

You think better to clean mentions of AII  colors from the description?



Xan,
thank you for wonderfull link - http://www.network54.com/Forum/394728/  !!!

Whether you have received my answer about photoetched for I-15 bis?
« Last Edit: April 22, 2011, 02:02:57 AM by GoNzA » Logged

Best regards,
Anatoliy
KL
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« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2011, 08:51:26 AM »

Hi Xan,  Smiley
Have you seen any photos of that preserved RZ???  It would be a spectacular discovery!  I know that ADAR (David Gesali) has RZ rudder?

I agree with your comments on Republican I-16s.  They were darker than light olive green AII Z.  It is also true that all preserved fragments of Republican planes show that planes were repainted with Spanish paints

RLM-83 or Protective green before 1938


Current Musee de l?Air I-153 restoration shows that RLM-62 is very close to AII Green

RLM 62 or Protective green after 1938


Hope this helps,
KL
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2011, 03:24:31 PM »

Hi Konstantin,
some questions...
Are you meaning Spanish colors, or Russian ones?
Is this dark green the same darker shade of the wreck of SB from Montoya? And the lighter shade is from the same piece? For What Montoya has written, the color of I-16 fragment is not identical to any of the greens of the SB.
Again, how is decided the deadline of 1938 for those colors?
Regards
Massimo Smiley
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xan
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« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2011, 09:25:47 PM »

Hello Konstantin,
I'm afraid we are talking about the same piece  of plane, because the one i was talking about is kept by David Gesali.
 Antonio Morant studies the colours...
I asked for a pic in the forum but i have no reply yet...

Xan
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2011, 10:51:58 PM »

Hi Xan,
the rudder? Are the colors of the flag visible, then?
Please, let me know.
Regards
Massimo
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xan
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« Reply #8 on: April 22, 2011, 11:48:51 PM »

Sorry Maximo, it's even not a rudder but a piece of cloth piece.
he have an another cloth piece od I-16 and David told me the colours were the same.
I'm waiting for more informations...

Xan
« Last Edit: April 23, 2011, 02:43:54 PM by xan » Logged

Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #9 on: April 23, 2011, 09:12:07 AM »

Hi Xan,
so, the color of the piece of I-16 and of R-Z are the same. Montoya wrote that they are more olive than the dark green of the SB. So, it seems that there are at least three greens of Spanish origin.
Regards
Massimo
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xan
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« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2011, 02:49:39 PM »

Hello Maximo,
I don't know why three greens...
the only one I actually know is the green who is like the RLM 83.
I red in the forum that it seems that the first I-16 type 5 were painted in sovietic AII green... meanwhile the type 10 were painted in spanish green... 

Xan
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dragonlanceHR
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« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2011, 04:39:13 PM »

IIRC only three colors are possible for Spanish-era soviet built a/c, "Protective color", 3B dark green protective color and gray-blue aviolak.



Respectively, AKAN No's 363, 370 and 371 color "chips" posted for convenience. Actual paint in bottle is more vivid, but I haven't painted anything with them yet.
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2011, 11:08:49 PM »

Hi Xan and Dragonlance,
I would add AII green, Spanish greens and a Spanish light blue similar to AII light blue to this list. However there is not a so wide difference between these colors, I would use the colors of the I-16 on all the planes, if not otherwise proven.
Massimo
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xan
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« Reply #13 on: April 24, 2011, 12:38:26 AM »

Don't you think that spanish blue seems lighter than the AII that I imagine more blue...
Xan
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #14 on: April 24, 2011, 07:43:27 AM »

Hi Xan,
having a look to the acrilic AII blue chip of Akan that John has kindly sent to me, it's just slightly more blue than Humbrol 65, and fits with the shade shown in the photo of the I-16 wreck or in the chip on the Spanish forum that gives h 65 as an approximate match. So I think that those colors are close one another.
Regards
Massimo
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