Il-2 Camouflage Schemes

[Massimo Tessitori]

Hi,
I hoped to update the page before leaving for holidays, but I fear I won't have time enough.
Please, have a look at http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/il-2/il2-camo/il2-camo.htm and let me know your impressions.
Regards
Massimo

[warhawk]

WOW! One more "arrow" three-color scheme!
Quite interesting possibility, I would like to see other opinions on this one.

BTW, excellent work on the expansion of references, Massimo. Keep up with the good work 

regards
Aleksandar

[Massimo Tessitori]

Thank you Aleksandar.
Please, feel free to express any comment useful to improve the page.
Regards
Massimo

[learstang]

It's looking good, Massimo.  To everyone I have to confess that one good reason that Massimo hasn't updated the IL-2 page more is that I have been slow in reviewing his line drawings that he's placing his colour camouflages on, which Massimo was kind enough to give to me too look at for any additions/corrections (the line drawings).  Still, excellent work so far, Massimo, and when you get back from vacation (have a good time!) I'll have reviewed all the drawings and sent you any additions/corrections.

Regards,

Jason

[Massimo Tessitori]

Hi,
I've updated the page on Il-2 at http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/il-2/il2-camo/il2-camo.htm, thanks to the help of Jason, AR and all those that gave suggestions and photos.
Please have a look and let me know any impression.
I have doubts about the localization of this photo:

and this one

Captions say factory 18 in Kuybishev.
But for what I know the style of painting of Kuybyshev for singleseaters was

and was preserved on subcessive Il2M3

What, then? Have they changed their style and then reverted to the previous one, or are the factories misidentified?
Regards
Massimo

[learstang]

That photograph of the aircraft park appears to be on the steppes (I believe there are steppes to the south of Kuibyshev, now called Samara), not in an urban setting (Moscow), so that would leave out Zavod No. 30 (which even if it were in the suburbs, should have had many trees, although I suppose those could be tree-covered low hills in the background?).  However, both Zavod No. 1 and Zavod No. 18 were based in Kuibyshev so how could you distinguish between them?  However, I'm sure Konstantin knows more about the land characteristics around Moscow and Kuibyshev (Samara) so this is just my tuppence.

Regards,

Jason

[Massimo Tessitori]

Hi, look at this Il-2.
The wing looks of arrow-type at my eyes, but the position of the antenna mast is typical of single-seaters. This combination should be unexisting.

Any ideas?
Regards
Massimo

[learstang]

I think that's a single-seater, Massimo.  Look at the cannon; although it has the fairing as you would see with a VYa 23mm, it has a ShVAK 20mm fitted instead (see how short the barrel is).  I don't think any of the arrows had the 20mm's fitted, although I know some of the earlier IL-2's used them when there was a shortage of 23mm cannons.  Also look at the landing light cover - it appears rounded.  From the pictures I've examined, it seems that the single-seaters (at least some of them), had a more rounded landing light cover than the two-seaters, which would have had a rectangular cover.

Regards,

Jason

[John Thompson]

It's a tough call - sometimes, depending on camera angle, the dihedral of the outer wing panel can make photos of the non-arrow wing leading edge appear to have more sweepback than it really does.

John

[Massimo Tessitori]

Hi Jason, hi John,
thank you for your suggestions. Neverthless, this image gives to me the impression of a strong change of angulation of the wing at the nacelle. Pity that there is not a sharp shadow on the ground, this would have resolved completely my doubts.
By the way: is this a wooden wing, in your idea?
Regards
Massimo

[Massimo Tessitori]

Hi,
are these planes straight-winged or arrows, in your idea?




(note the underwing guns)
Regards
Massimo

[AC26]

Hi,
are these planes straight-winged or arrows, in your idea?

Major Bamshin's "15" bellied June 1943 -> straight wing.

Cheers,

AaCee

[learstang]

Massimo, I believe all of them are straight-winged; look at the short antenna masts (and the early style gunner's canopy on the first photograph), except for the last one, "Red 28" which has a long antenna mast, but which is still definitely a straight-winged two-seater (I don't believe the 37mm cannons were ever fitted to operational arrows).

Regards,

Jason

[learstang]

Hi Jason, hi John,
thank you for your suggestions. Neverthless, this image gives to me the impression of a strong change of angulation of the wing at the nacelle. Pity that there is not a sharp shadow on the ground, this would have resolved completely my doubts.
By the way: is this a wooden wing, in your idea?
Regards
Massimo

The antenna mast and the rounded landing light cover clinch it for me; it's a single-seater.  As far as the wing-covering, it looks to have some panelling apparent on the outer wing panel so it's probably a metal-winged single-seater, although it is hard to tell about the wing covering.

Regards,

Jason

[Massimo Tessitori]

Hi Jason and AaCee, thank you for your suggestions.
Plane n.28 shows, aside a tall mast, also the pitot probe apparently in outer position, as arrows. Maybe they changed the position of the pitot on late production Il-2M (I know that this name isn't right, but at least it's clear) to match that of Il-2M3?
Regards
Massimo