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Il-2 Camouflage Schemes
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Author Topic: Il-2 Camouflage Schemes  (Read 47821 times)
Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #60 on: November 30, 2011, 08:10:31 PM »

Hi John,
thank you for editing my post.
Hi Jason, I can trace all the camo from this photo, but it's too strange that I haven't yet found photos of operative planes with the same pattern. Maybe the masks were made of paper and lasted for few planes only.
Regards
Massimo
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Troy Smith
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« Reply #61 on: December 02, 2011, 09:34:08 PM »

Quote

I notice that in some places, the red seems to shade into the yellow (ALG-1?).  Perhaps it's just ALG-1 that turned red over the decades.  About the camouflage, that is interesting the way the bands on the starboard wing "interlock".  That would make an interesting subject for your IL-2 page, Massimo, if you can figure out the rest of the camouflage.

Regards,

Jason

HI sure this has come up before, just a reminder, as to what I presume is how AMT-1 weathers.

IL-2 at pinemyra, http://tihlde.org/~ktsorens/flyvrak/pinemyra.html



HTH
T

« Last Edit: December 03, 2011, 01:01:56 AM by Troy Smith » Logged
Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #62 on: December 03, 2011, 01:07:19 PM »

Hi Troy,
yes, this is much more saturate than what we expect from new AMT-1. But it's still not so reddish.
I wonder if the reddish brown of the first photo was a primer. Maybe people that took the photo knows if the reddish shade was above or below the yellowish one.
Regards
Massimo
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #63 on: December 11, 2011, 10:22:42 PM »

Hi all,
I've updated both the page on Il-2 and the page on  I-16 with some new commented photos. Besides I've divided the page on I-16 into two pages, and probably I'll split it again at the next update. They are all accessible from http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/index.html
Regards
Massimo
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #64 on: February 12, 2012, 06:39:54 PM »

Hi,
I've seen that I have misinterpreted these photos.




I thought that they were black-green, but now I see that they are arrow-winged planes, and the camo is compatible with the template 1 of the camouflage introduced in 1943.
The camouflage on wings stabilizer and rear fuselage is sharp and repetitive, probably made by mask, while the metal paert of fuselage and wing is much less contrasted, it looks nearly uniform. The wings are painted before to be mounted on the fuselage, and it's likely that the same thing is for the rear fuselage.

Operative planes with this livery? Perhaps the strange Il-2KR of this photo

and plane n,53, another KR.  

The puzzle-like variant of scheme n.1 was utilized to restore the Il-2 of Prague museum, although probably with unaccurate shades.
The most impressive thing is the difference in contrast between the colors of the wooden parts and of the metallic parts.
It's likely that the factory was  Zavod 1 in Kuybyshev, not zavod 18 in the same town, because the most of the KR were made there, and I think thaf Factory n.18 made always planes with metal wings.
Regards
Massimo
« Last Edit: February 12, 2012, 07:13:06 PM by Massimo Tessitori » Logged
learstang
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« Reply #65 on: February 13, 2012, 06:28:55 AM »

Are you sure that's not Zavod 18, Massimo?  At any rate, the wings of the aircraft on the production lines look metal to me as they have the gun access panels that were seen on metal-winged arrows.  That IL-2KR no.482 also looks like it might be metal-winged.

Regards,

Jason
« Last Edit: February 13, 2012, 06:34:52 AM by learstang » Logged

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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #66 on: February 13, 2012, 07:03:14 AM »

Hi Jason,
sure... surely not. If they have metal wings, there has to be another explanation for the different contrast between wing and fuselage. It would be good to know the year when the photo was taken.
Regards
Massimo
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KL
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« Reply #67 on: February 13, 2012, 06:28:00 PM »





It's likely that the factory was  Zavod 1 in Kuybyshev, not zavod 18 in the same town, because the most of the KR were made there, and I think thaf Factory n.18 made always planes with metal wings.

Are you sure that's not Zavod 18, Massimo?  At any rate, the wings of the aircraft on the production lines look metal to me as they have the gun access panels that were seen on metal-winged arrows.

It's Zavod 18 for sure!  No doubts or guessing there.  Photo was dated as May 1943 (can't remember where I found that; internet or books  Huh).  There is a chance that photo is misdated, but you should have better evidence than (probably unrelated) Il-2KR camouflage scheme to proove a different date.
Caution with arrow - usually it isn't so easy to distinguish it on photos.
KL
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #68 on: February 13, 2012, 07:26:18 PM »

Hi Konstantin,
I don't think that the date is right. If you compare it with the templates of august 1943, you'll see that they perfectly fit it.



Besides the wing ammo hatches divided into three squared ones are typical of arrows, probably of metal arrows only, introduced in late 1943. So, if the date is wrong, the place is dubious too.
Regards
Massimo
« Last Edit: February 13, 2012, 07:28:11 PM by Massimo Tessitori » Logged
learstang
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« Reply #69 on: February 13, 2012, 07:47:30 PM »

Thank you for the confirmation about the factory, Konstantin!  I'd seen that patriotic banner before in pictures of Zavod 18, but for all I knew they had that in all the zavodi that produced the Shturmovik (perhaps they did).  Regarding the date, if it is May 1943, these can't be arrows.  You're correct about it being difficult sometimes to determine if it's an arrow or straight wing.  However, if you look at the nearest IL-2 in the first photograph, the wing sweepback on the leading edge looks too extreme to be a straight-winger, which means these photographs are misdated.  Hard to tell.  However, I think that Massimo is correct about these having the three-colour scheme, which wouldn't have been used in May 1943. 

Regards,

Jason
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KL
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« Reply #70 on: February 13, 2012, 08:05:31 PM »

Sorry guys,  Sad
Rastrenin says it's Zavod 30, Moscow!!!  No dates...

I had in my mind a different set of photos  Undecided


KL
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learstang
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« Reply #71 on: February 13, 2012, 08:35:34 PM »

No problem, Konstantin!  This photograph is interesting in that it shows that some of the metal-winged early two-seaters had the gun access panels like the single-seaters (one small panel, then one long rectangular panel).  What I'm still trying to find out is when the change to the three small panels on the metal wing was made - was it made during the production run of the straight-winged two-seater, or was the change made with the metal arrow wing?  Another interesting item about this photograph is that it doesn't look to me like these aeroplanes have been painted with the camouflage scheme yet.  The metal parts may not have been painted at all - look at the reflection of the technician on the port wing of the nearest aircraft.

Regards,

Jason
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"I'll sleep when I'm dead."

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KL
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« Reply #72 on: February 14, 2012, 07:16:01 PM »

Jason/Massimo,
I have checked my literature and except for Rastrenin, all Russian authors have routinely identified all of those production photos as Zavod 18, Kuibishev.

It is clear that there are at least two sets (possibly 3) taken at different times; one in 1942/43 and the other one photographed later in 1943/44.

1942/43 set is clearly Zavod 18:






"Aviakor" in Samara (former Zavod 18) just few years ago:


KL
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learstang
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« Reply #73 on: February 15, 2012, 12:12:52 AM »

Good photographs, Konstantin!  I've seen some of them before, but not a big and detailed as these.  It definitely looks like the wings aren't painted.  Aren't Aviakor the outfit that restored the flyable Shturmovik?  Are they operating out of Zavod 18 now?

Regards,

Jason
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #74 on: February 15, 2012, 07:22:33 AM »

Good research, Konstantin. It's definitely the same place.
A comment on the planes: they look all unpainted, but it seems that the light blue under the fuselage has already painted on. They look singleseaters for the position of the radio mast, with late type straight wing. Seeing the dresses of the operators, I would say it tas taken in mid 1942.
Regards
Massimo
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