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Corrections for Pilawski's book
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Author Topic: Corrections for Pilawski's book  (Read 57100 times)
Javier Planells
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« Reply #60 on: October 29, 2011, 08:55:09 PM »

I'd really need it for some VVS planes I want to finish, and the thought of repainting the whole interior of my almost finished Yak-7b gives me the shivers.


I'd go with A-14 myself...

John

Hi John,

Thanks for the reply. I believe you're right. Found the following thread to be very useful:

http://sovietwarplanes.com/board/index.php?topic=1171.0

Thanks again.

Javier
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learstang
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« Reply #61 on: October 29, 2011, 10:28:06 PM »

I agree with John, Javier.  A-14 Steel Grey (or MM Neutral Gray as I use) is probably the safest colour to use.

Regards,

Jason
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Javier Planells
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« Reply #62 on: October 29, 2011, 10:41:23 PM »

I agree with John, Javier.  A-14 Steel Grey (or MM Neutral Gray as I use) is probably the safest colour to use.

Regards,

Jason

Thanks Jason, I will go for that color.
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John Thompson
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« Reply #63 on: October 30, 2011, 01:32:37 AM »

A-14 is kind of the all-singing, all-dancing colour of last resort whenever you need to paint a cockpit or structural parts, and can't find conclusive information that it was something else. It was standardized for those purposes by the time the Yak-7 entered service, though. For earlier types, like the I-16, it's not so clear-cut.

John
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learstang
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« Reply #64 on: October 30, 2011, 04:17:43 AM »

You're welcome, Javier!  Once again John is correct - the A-14 is kind of a colour of last resort if you can't be sure of what other colours might have been used (or the colour of first resort for lazy types like me).

Regards,

Jason
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KL
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« Reply #65 on: January 18, 2012, 10:34:25 PM »



Quote:
Several entire series of Yak-9s were completed at Zavoda 153 and 166 for use in the South (in one case, to replace the losses of the 252 IAP in 1944).


252 iap chronology can be found at http://allaces.ru/cgi-bin/s2.cgi/sssr/struct/p/iap252.dat

В действующей армии (In combat):
22.06.41 - 19.03.42
01.07.42 - 30.08.42

Расформирован 10.09.42 г. Приказом НКО No. 00196. (Disbanded on September 10, 1942 by the Peoples Commissariat of Defence  order No 00196.)

Fictional camouflage scheme for a fictional unit!!!  Why would anybody treat the rest of information as more reliable???


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learstang
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« Reply #66 on: January 18, 2012, 11:05:56 PM »

Quote:
Several entire series of Yak-9s were completed at Zavoda 153 and 166 for use in the South (in one case, to replace the losses of the 252 IAP in 1944).


252 iap chronology can be found at http://allaces.ru/cgi-bin/s2.cgi/sssr/struct/p/iap252.dat

В действующей армии (In combat):
22.06.41 - 19.03.42
01.07.42 - 30.08.42

Расформирован 10.09.42 г. Приказом НКО No. 00196. (Disbanded on September 10, 1942 by the Peoples Commissariat of Defence  order No 00196.)

Fictional camouflage scheme for a fictional unit!!!  Why would anybody treat the rest of information as more reliable???




Well there you go, Konstantin!  Since by 1944 there weren't any aeroplanes left in the 252nd IAP, no wonder they needed replacements.  They'd lost their entire regiment in 1942 when it disbanded!

Regards,

Jason
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KL
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« Reply #67 on: January 18, 2012, 11:16:31 PM »

Well there you go, Konstantin!  Since by 1944 there weren't any aeroplanes left in the 252nd IAP, no wonder they needed replacements.  They'd lost their entire regiment in 1942 when it disbanded!

He, he, I know you understand:  there was no such unit called 252 iap in 1944 - regiment with that name disappeared in Sept 1942 and it wasn't re-established ever after.  Grin

Cheers,
KL
« Last Edit: January 18, 2012, 11:19:13 PM by KL » Logged
erussell
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« Reply #68 on: March 31, 2012, 08:00:22 AM »

I have the Pilawski book (purchased hot off the press in Helsinki) and I have read a lot of internet correspondence associated with it so I am aware of its fundamental weaknesses.
To be honest, only a few posts in this thread have actually added to my knowledge.
It's a pity there doesn't seem to be any other readily accessible texts on the subject.

We at Red Roo produced a small book to try and fill the same void in knowledge of RAAF colours
http://www.redroomodels.com/books.php?book=7

Why don't a few of you get together and produce a 50-60 page "Modeller's Guide to VVS Colours"?
I imagine it would sell reasonably well.
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learstang
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« Reply #69 on: March 31, 2012, 08:10:43 AM »

To be honest, I have actually started a book on just that, based largely on Mikhail Orlov's work, which I partly translated from the Russian.  Unfortunately, I haven't had much time to work on it, as I've been busy trying to finish up a much larger work on modelling the IL-2 Shturmovik.

Regards,

Jason
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warhawk
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« Reply #70 on: March 31, 2012, 11:09:18 AM »

Plus, most paint standards are still a matter of work (or should we say research) in progress...

Like Japanese aircraft colors standards, there are still quite a few gaps in our knowledge on this topic...
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #71 on: March 31, 2012, 12:55:24 PM »

Hi,
there is much work in process on this. The pages of the site about the painting of Soviet planes could easily be transformed into a book, and photos and drawings can make a guide to the most recurrent patterns for each type. But if we don't want to make a simple translation of the work of Orlov, there is still much to do.
In the meanwhile, I am collecting here the informations on this subject.
http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/colors/color-table.html
http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/colors/colors.html
Regards
Massimo
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John Thompson
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« Reply #72 on: March 31, 2012, 04:58:17 PM »

Why don't a few of you get together and produce a 50-60 page "Modeller's Guide to VVS Colours"?
I imagine it would sell reasonably well.

It's a good idea, and it sounds like Jason and Massimo are working on something that would fill the void (kudos to them!), but don't forget these two references:
(1) Massimo's well-researched web site pages:
http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/colors/colors.html
(2) "Colors of the Falcons", by Jiri Hornat and Bob Migliardi:
http://www.iliad-design.com/falconsbook.html
The second one is not perfect from the perspective of the casual modeller who isn't a VVS enthusiast and who just wants to be told specifically, without a lot of thought or decision-making, what colours to paint his model (ideally including a chart showing colour equivalents for widely-available modelling paints), but it's a start.

John
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KL
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« Reply #73 on: April 02, 2012, 09:03:04 PM »

I have the Pilawski book (purchased hot off the press in Helsinki) and I have read a lot of internet correspondence associated with it so I am aware of its fundamental weaknesses.
To be honest, only a few posts in this thread have actually added to my knowledge.

This tread should have shawn you that Pilawskii's book is a fiction book, not a history research.  It isn't something that needs a correction here and there; it's tainted  Wink, fundamentally wrong...  Embarrassed
Why would we waste our time and effort to correct Pilawskii's book?  It would be a free gift for him.  He has to make a new book and tell the truth (at the same time the new book would show how wrong was his first effort).   

We at Red Roo produced a small book to try and fill the same void in knowledge of RAAF colours...  Why don't a few of you get together and produce a 50-60 page "Modeller's Guide to VVS Colours"?
I imagine it would sell reasonably well.

I'm not sure about the success; there are already two books on the market, who needs the third?... How is RAAF colours book selling?

Cheers,
KL
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erussell
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« Reply #74 on: April 03, 2012, 01:11:57 PM »

I have not proposed "a correction here and there" to Pilawski's book. I am quite unable to see that idea anywhere.
I proposed a 50-60 page "Modeller's Guide to VVS Colours" along the lines of our RAAF book, which sells extremely well both in Australia and overseas and has done for several years as it is filling a gap in the market, is authoritative and inexpensive.
I was unaware there were other readily accessible books on the market on this subject - please give us more information.
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