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Author Topic: Corrections for Pilawski's book  (Read 45085 times)
KL
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« Reply #75 on: April 03, 2012, 06:48:07 PM »

I have not proposed "a correction here and there" to Pilawski's book. I am quite unable to see that idea anywhere.
I proposed a 50-60 page "Modeller's Guide to VVS Colours" along the lines of our RAAF book, which sells extremely well both in Australia and overseas and has done for several years as it is filling a gap in the market, is authoritative and inexpensive.
I was unaware there were other readily accessible books on the market on this subject - please give us more information.

Thread title suggests "corrections" as if there is reliable material in Pilawskii's book.  First post asked for corrections and later other forum members asked for "corrections" in this thread...
Those who are looking for information different than Pilawskii's, should look in other treads;  I did explain many aspects of Soviet colours in other threads.  Massimo's pages are also a good place to start (altough they are not definitive, there were some discussions on this forum and some suggestions for corrections/changes that have not been processed).

Two books on Soviet colours are currently available on the market:
1.  Pilawskii's SAFFC
2.  Hornat & Migliardi's "Colors of the Falcons"

Pilawskii's book is available at http://www.ianallanpublishing.com/soviet-air-force-fighter-colours-1941-1945.html for 35 Lstg, not much more than your RAAF colours book. Embarrassed

Thanks for the suggestion, it's worth a consideration.  Good to know that your book sells well.

Cheers,
KL
« Last Edit: April 04, 2012, 02:57:48 AM by KL » Logged
Marcin Widomski
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« Reply #76 on: April 03, 2012, 09:58:36 PM »

Two books on Soviet colours are currently available on the market:
1.  Pilawskii's SAFFC
2.  Hornat & Migliardi's "Colors of the Falcons"
Hi there
What about:
Авиаколлекция 2008 №12. Окраска и обозначения самолетов ВВС, 1941-1945 гг. by Orlov and Bahlamov?
Is it ok? Taking into account the limited volume of this publication - 36 p.

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learstang
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« Reply #77 on: April 03, 2012, 10:08:05 PM »

Two books on Soviet colours are currently available on the market:
1.  Pilawskii's SAFFC
2.  Hornat & Migliardi's "Colors of the Falcons"
Hi there
What about:
Авиаколлекция 2008 №12. Окраска и обозначения самолетов ВВС, 1941-1945 гг. by Orlov and Bahlamov?
Is it ok? Taking into account the limited volume of this publication - 36 p.


Marcin, it's a compilation of a series of articles published in the Russian magazine MHobby in 1999.  To date, it is the most comprehensive and authoritative book on Soviet aeroplane colours during the Great Patriotic War.  The problem is, it has never been published in English, although others on this site and myself have worked on cleaning up a "machine" (computer) translation of it.

Regards,

Jason
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Marcin Widomski
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« Reply #78 on: April 03, 2012, 10:25:00 PM »

Thanks a lot for the answer.
I owe this paper/booklet. Russian is not a problem for me.
But I have never had enough time to read it from cover to cover (shame, I have dozens unread journals, books etc)...
I also have the Pilawski's book, it was a gift form my friend from UK, received just after the book had been published. I read it but later I noticed many threads like this one.
So, the book rests in peace on the shelf.

Regards
M.W.
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erussell
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« Reply #79 on: April 03, 2012, 11:53:48 PM »

Quote
T(h)read title suggests "corrections" as if there is reliable material in Pilawskii's book.
Two books on Soviet colours are currently available on the market:
1.  Pilawskii's SAFFC
2.  Hornat & Migliardi's "Colors of the Falcons"

Pilawskii's book is available at http://www.ianallanpublishing.com/soviet-air-force-fighter-colours-1941-1945.html

My proposal is for a replacement for Pilawski's book - maybe I should have started a new thread, I can see where the confusion arises.
As I said, I have the Pilawski book - I bought it when it first came out.
Is "Colours of the Falcons" readily accessible. I looked for a copy a while ago but couldn't find one (apart from the usual stupidly-priced Ebay ones)
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learstang
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« Reply #80 on: April 04, 2012, 12:26:55 AM »

Quote
T(h)read title suggests "corrections" as if there is reliable material in Pilawskii's book.
Two books on Soviet colours are currently available on the market:
1.  Pilawskii's SAFFC
2.  Hornat & Migliardi's "Colors of the Falcons"

Pilawskii's book is available at http://www.ianallanpublishing.com/soviet-air-force-fighter-colours-1941-1945.html

My proposal is for a replacement for Pilawski's book - maybe I should have started a new thread, I can see where the confusion arises.
As I said, I have the Pilawski book - I bought it when it first came out.
Is "Colours of the Falcons" readily accessible. I looked for a copy a while ago but couldn't find one (apart from the usual stupidly-priced Ebay ones)

Here you go - http://www.christian-schmidt.com/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=Migliardi&search_in_description=1&osCsid=opd6q9itflr0t0iuiknbdm8j27&x=0&y=0  I ordered from them and received an apparently new book in good condition.  There may be other places - I suppose a quick Google search might find some other outlets for this book.  You are correct that there needs to be a replacement for Mr. Pilawskii's magnum opus, and a more updated book than the Colors of the Falcons.  What I had in mind for my book was a relatively short book, something along the lines of the Aviakollektsia book by Mikhail Orlov, but written specifically with the modeller in mind.  However, writing well-researched books is not easy, as I've found out with my IL-2 modelling guide, so this project has been relegated to the back-burner whilst I try and complete my IL-2 book.  Whatever I do, I don't plan on it being as long and comprehensive (remember that comprehensive is not synonymous with accurate) as SAFFC.

Regards,

Jason
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John Thompson
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« Reply #81 on: April 04, 2012, 01:27:45 AM »

Is "Colours of the Falcons" readily accessible. I looked for a copy a while ago but couldn't find one (apart from the usual stupidly-priced Ebay ones)

It's supposedly available from the publisher, per my post in reply #72 in this thread. Here's the link again:
http://www.iliad-design.com/falconsbook.html

John
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KL
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« Reply #82 on: April 04, 2012, 03:01:09 AM »

T(h)read title suggests...

Thanks for the h in "thread" - spelling is too hard for me  Smiley
KL
« Last Edit: April 04, 2012, 03:02:40 AM by KL » Logged
erussell
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« Reply #83 on: April 05, 2012, 03:43:44 AM »

Thanks for the various replies - I'll track down this book.
I really hope a few of you can get together and do something about a new small book. We have experience in publishing and we know how hard it is.... I dunno whether my boss can come at us turning into "Red Star Models - a Red Roo subsidiary" but you never know!

KL - Given my Russian, Czech, Finnish, French and German and.... are practically non-existent, I am reluctant to correct other peoples' English unless I know them, but others say I have the heart of a proof reader so I hope you don't mind. Your English is excellent.

Quote
Thanks for the h in "thread" - spelling is too hard for me  Smiley
KL
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KL
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« Reply #84 on: May 10, 2012, 04:50:51 PM »

Pilawskii?s recent research, this time about B. Safonov, is posted at
http://www.redbanner.co.uk/History/ace_aircraft/safonov/safonov.html

It?s typical Pilawskii: no sources, some correct information and a lot of guesswork, his misconceptions, assumptions and a lot of outright misinformation!!!

Author?s propensity to substitute facts with assumptions can be illustrated with what he says about Ye. Khaldei, a photographer who photographed Safonov in front of the I-16 with the inscription ?For Stalin!?

Quote from Pilawskii's page:
Khaldey was a journalist-- not a war correspondent-- and sought to assemble an attractive article for publication in Moscow (that is to say, not necessarily for the military papers or journals). He had no technical knowledge of aviation nor aircraft, and from his other work it seems clear no interest in such details, besides.

Khaldei wasn?t a ?widely read war reporter?.  Haldey was a photo-correspondent; photography was his medium, not articles.  He photographed for TASS before the war, during the war and after the war.  
His wartime photos are in almost every book dealing with GPW or WWII in general.
Following Khaldei?s photo is known worldwide:



Khaldei was a war photo-correspondent. He started war in Murmansk, later he photographed liberation of Crimea and followed Red Army through Ukraine, Balkans, Hungary and all way to Berlin.  He photographed Teheran meetings and Nurnberg trials.  



Pilawskii writes that Khaldei ?had no technical knowledge of aviation nor aircraft? and had ?no interest in such details (aviation)?.  

The truth is that Khaldei took many photos of pilots and aircraft.  In fact, some of the most widely published photos of Soviet WWII planes were taken by Khaldei.

Pilawskii himself used at least two Khaldei?s photos in his SAFFC book:





It?s not fair to comment WWII photographer?s knowledge and interests and at the same time use his photos.  Did Khaldei?s technical knowledge matter?  Has anybody commented Pilawskii?s technical knowledge?  Or better, has anybody commented Pilawskii?s knowledge of Soviet/Russian history?  This knowledge matters if someone frequently writes about Soviet planes.

KL
« Last Edit: May 10, 2012, 04:55:14 PM by KL » Logged
John Thompson
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« Reply #85 on: May 10, 2012, 10:24:21 PM »

Konstantin, I have some difficulty saying this because I'm a bit conflicted over the whole issue of Pilawskii and his book. On one hand, I respect hugely your knowledge on so many aspects of the subject of Russian history, and your willingness to be helpful to so many people who are themselves seeking knowledge. On the other hand, Erik's former web site partner Matt Bittner is someone who I regard as a friend, although I realize that none of your comments has ever been directed at Matt. By now, I think EP's book has been criticized in general terms enough that most people will be very careful in assessing the usefulness of the information in that book. It's a shame that it has to be that way, but if that's reality, then that's the way it is. It would be good if this thread could be used for objective and specific corrective information based on accurate research, rather than placing emphasis on perceived flaws in Pilawskii's character and methods. Am I making sense? As I said, I'm having difficulty finding the right words to say this well...

I try, as much as I am capable of doing, to provide some direction on other forums to people who are looking for answers on VVS topics, especially relating to GPW fighter aircraft. While I'm certain that what I see is only slightly, if at all, the result of my small efforts, it does seem that more people are becoming curious about Russian aircraft and their colours and markings. This, I think we all agree, is a good thing which we need to encourage by minimizing our blunt criticisms of published errors (and their author) and trying to direct people toward the correct information.

Thank you!

John
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #86 on: May 11, 2012, 07:38:51 AM »

Quote
It?s not fair to comment WWII photographer?s knowledge and interests and at the same time use his photos.

But aren't you utilizing photos from his book and site to criticize him?
Regards
Massimo
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KL
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« Reply #87 on: May 24, 2012, 08:57:56 AM »

Hi John, thanks for the comments.  Smiley

... I think EP's book has been criticized in general terms enough that most people will be very careful in assessing the usefulness of the information in that book. It's a shame that it has to be that way, but if that's reality, then that's the way it is.

Pilawskii was criticized at just a few english and russian language forums.  All 20-30 active members on this forum know about the problems associated with his "research".  Some 133 Russians voted against him at scalemodels forum - and that's it!
Check customer reviews at amazon:  http://www.amazon.com/Soviet-Fighter-Colours-1941-45-Classic/product-reviews/190322330X/ref=la_B0034NVINI_1_1_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1   

still 4.5 stars...  Instead of repeating ourselvs here, maybe few of us should write some "objective" reviews at the amazon?

It would be good if this thread could be used for objective and specific corrective information based on accurate research, rather than placing emphasis on perceived flaws in Pilawskii's character and methods.

I have already provided enough corrections, here, and on other forums.  I will not provide any more "corrections" to the author who doesn't deserve them.

My next project is SAFFCC review at the Amazon... Wink

Cheers,
KL
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John Thompson
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« Reply #88 on: May 29, 2012, 01:40:34 AM »

Hi John, thanks for the comments.  Smiley

... I think EP's book has been criticized in general terms enough that most people will be very careful in assessing the usefulness of the information in that book. It's a shame that it has to be that way, but if that's reality, then that's the way it is.

Pilawskii was criticized at just a few english and russian language forums.  All 20-30 active members on this forum know about the problems associated with his "research".  Some 133 Russians voted against him at scalemodels forum - and that's it!
Check customer reviews at amazon:  http://www.amazon.com/Soviet-Fighter-Colours-1941-45-Classic/product-reviews/190322330X/ref=la_B0034NVINI_1_1_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1   

still 4.5 stars...  Instead of repeating ourselvs here, maybe few of us should write some "objective" reviews at the amazon?

It would be good if this thread could be used for objective and specific corrective information based on accurate research, rather than placing emphasis on perceived flaws in Pilawskii's character and methods.

I have already provided enough corrections, here, and on other forums.  I will not provide any more "corrections" to the author who doesn't deserve them.

Cheers,
KL


Fair enough, and no problem here. I'm sorry I didn't respond sooner, but I've been out of town for a week and a half.

My next project is SAFFCC review at the Amazon... Wink

Cheers,
KL


That should be interesting; please post a link if you do! Or maybe you should wait until the new, revised edition is published? Wink

John
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KL
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« Reply #89 on: November 02, 2012, 07:16:16 PM »

A new, farcical ?research? appeared at Red Banner Aviation.  This time it?s about V.P. Pokrovskii and his Yak-1.  Whole ?research? is based on one single photo.  Photo itself is well known and it has been published many times.  In addition to the photo author also refers to a number of profiles published in popular literature.

Is the text worth reading?  Not really - after torturing readers with hundreds of words and five profiles author concludes:

"In the end we simply cannot know how this Yak-1 looked in historical fact. Sufficient evidence on this point simply does not exist."

How reliable is information about Pokrovskii and his plane?  As usual with this author ? it?s mostly misinformation:

1.   Pokrovskii was photographed in front of I-153, not in front of I-16 as author states
2.   Pokrovskii wasn?t with 2nd giap in 1944.  He was actually transferred to another unit in mid-1943
3.   Pokrovskii hasn?t received Yak-1 in summer 1944.  He was actually flying on Yak-1s already in 1943.
4.   2nd giap wasn?t re-equipped with Yak-1s in summer 1944.  It was equipped with Land-Lease fighters till 1945
5.   Pokrovskii was credited with 18 victories ? 12 individual and 6 group victories ? this was clearly drawn on Yak?s tail ? 6 group victories are drawn as a lowest curved row of stars.  It?s unknown how author has 21 victory stars?
6.   Author still promotes his single colour scheme consisting of AMT-11 over AMT-7.  All Yak-1s were camouflaged in factory; in green-black before summer 1943 and in gray-dark gray after summer 1943.



Red Banner Aviation author doesn?t waste his time on forums.  He doesn?t communicate with other enthusiasts/researchers, he never asks questions.  If he had searched information on this forum and sovietwarplanes.com he wouldn?t have made all mistakes listed above.  Same important details about Pokrovskii are actually available on this forum and sovietwarplanes.com research pages!
Cheers,
KL

PS.   Most amusing detail in this otherwise useless text is that we finally know how author became a historian:  He has a Historian hat!!!   Just like that ? he puts his Historian hat on and he is a historian!  He also mentions an Enthusiast hat?  we can only wonder how many hats he has, SAFFC dust jacket mentions that he is a pilot, senior software specialist, modeler, that he can draw profiles?

 
« Last Edit: November 02, 2012, 07:18:07 PM by KL » Logged
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