I-16 zhujkov plane 191 IAP leningrad summer 1941

[KL]

Xan!  

This is HSU Mihail Petrovich Zhukov, 158th IAP!!!!  



It's a different plane and a different pilot!!!  Time and Location are OK:  Leningrad 1941.

Cheers,  
KL  

[xan]

Ok sorry,
in the Lela presse book they confounded the two pilots as I do (however, Pascal informed me  )
so , in witch pic can you see the wings star ?

Xan

[Massimo Tessitori]

Hi Xan and Konstantin,

There are only two options:

1. Plane was camouflaged with black fields as per June 1941 directive
2. Plane was still in pre-war scheme (solid green)

there is a third possibility: the plane was roughly maculated with black on the originl livery, having only a brush, a can of black (perhaps not even good for metal, as we see from the chipping on the propeller) and one or two hours to made all the work.
I have not other photos of I-16s with such treatment, but there are many photos of SB, Il-4 and I-153 roughly camouflaged in such ways. Even a photo of a 'zebra' MiG-3.
Regards
Massimo

[KL]

...in witch pic can you see the wings star ?

In 158 IAP picture...

Consider following 158th IAP I-16 photos:









Can you get an idea?

Cheers,  
KL


PS:  no problem, I will not use bold fontface anymore... Sorry  

[Bert]

Besides, oval blotches of black are visible between the exhaust pipes. This is not a standard camouflage, it's simply a green plane that was blotched with some black.
Regards
Massimo

I think that Massimo has right, the cowling has a two-tone camouflage and so it can't be a uniform green plane.

[KL]

Besides, oval blotches of black are visible between the exhaust pipes. This is not a standard camouflage, it's simply a green plane that was blotched with some black.
Regards
Massimo

I think that Massimo has right, the cowling has a two-tone camouflage and so it can't be a uniform green plane.

Now, I agree with Massimo too - Plane is in standard, field applied black-green scheme. It probably has a red star in front of No 8 (or 9?).

Cheers,
KL 

[KL]

... the plane was roughly maculated with black on the originl livery, having only a brush, a can of black (perhaps not even good for metal, as we see from the chipping on the propeller) and one or two hours to made all the work.

I would say that 158th IAP photos show well how repainting was done:

Two photos taken in summer 1941 - Pilots are wearing shirts, planes are still in pre-war solid green scheme and red stars are in pre-war positions





Following photos were taken in autumn 1941 - Pilots are wearing leather coats and planes are camouflaged with black fields.  Markings (red stars) are changed to comply with June order:








Cheers, 
KL

[mholly]

But, but... star in 1st pic is white and 3rd one yellow!!!
No, seriously, that's what b&w pix convincingly demonstrate!
 
Za rodinu!
Mario

[Massimo Tessitori]

Hi all,

But, but... star in 1st pic is white and 3rd one yellow!!!

Hi Mario, yellow stars... what an idea for a profile! Thanks for the discovery!
Seriously speaking; Konstantin, you've done an excellent job by collecting all those related photos.
Regards
Massimo

[KL]

Hi Mario, Massimo and Xan!   

I tried to avoid interpretation and rely on what is clearly visible, but....

IMHO, Zhuikov's plane must have been very, very, very similar to Haritonov's plane.  Same period (late summer/September 1941) and same theatre (defence of Leningrad).

Haritonov's I-16, 158th IAP:



Zhuikov's I-16, 191st IAP:



Haritonov's I-16 complies with June camouflage order; there is absolutely no reason to doubt that Zhuikov's I-16 was camouflaged the same way.

In other words:  there were neither ?tigers? nor "zebras".  Planes were camouflaged with black fields because there was an order to do it.  I also doubt that many planes were camouflaged by splashing black paint over them...

If  I were Mr. Badger, I would make Haritonov?s I-16.  It?s better documented.   

Cheers,
KL

[Massimo Tessitori]

Hi Konstantin,

no tigers and zebras, you say?
Regards
Massimo

[marluc]

One question regarding Haritonov?s "white 13",I know it?s hard to tell but,is it a Type 24 or Type 29? Greetings.

Martin

[KL]

One question regarding Haritonov?s "white 13",I know it?s hard to tell but,is it a Type 24 or Type 29? Greetings.

Martin

Probably Type 24.  Regiment was formed in June 1940, too early for Type 29.

Saludos,
KL

[learstang]

Konstantin and Mario, perhaps you're missing the point about unusual schemes - they're interesting because they're unusual.  I don't know if you two do much aeroplane modelling; I do a little, and I'm always looking for schemes that are out of the ordinary.  For example, I have a very late war FW-190F-8 painted in overall 83 RLM Green topsides.  I chose it because it was so strange.  We shouldn't ignore strange examples, if there is some sort of documentary evidence, especially photographic evidence to go on (I know you think using photographs only is dangerous, Mario, but sometimes it's all we have to go on).  It's exactly those strangely-marked aeroplanes that make such interesting models.  You mention templates, which is fine - however, I'd like for you to reconstruct a black/green template that was consistently applied to Shturmoviks during 1941-43; I wish there were one.  It would certainly make my model building easier.

Regards,

Jason

[marluc]

Probably Type 24.

Thanks a lot Konstantin.

Totally agree with you Jason,planes in unusual markings or modifications are very interesting and can be represented by very attractive models.

Greetings

Martin