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Author Topic: End of "Modeling the Aircraft of the Soviet VVS"  (Read 7383 times)
KL
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« on: June 14, 2011, 10:52:02 PM »

http://vvs.hobbyvista.com/ site is closing.

Forum at http://vvs.hobbyvista.com/Forum/index.php is also dead.  There is only a short message:
The forum is permanently closed.

Pilawskii calls this The End of an Era...

He provides several reasons for this tragic event:
1.  miscreant conduct of the modern web 'community'
2.  corrosive nature of current behaviour 'on-line' has fatally eroded any enthusiasm to carry on
3.  negative trajectory of modern society in this present era


Others who deal with VVS colours are described as:  few amateurish, half-baked and thoroughly unconvincing extant sites which promote themselves so ridiculously? These farcical efforts threaten to regress the understanding of the 1917-1950 VVS back decades...
 
Nice...

« Last Edit: June 25, 2011, 10:40:38 PM by JP » Logged
mholly
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« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2011, 11:14:01 AM »

..."there simply is no other web based resource or repository of information on this topic worthy of the name."...
What a jewel!
This guy is much worse than I thought.
Hopefully he will save enough money, have V/O articles translated and finally learn something!
Cheers,
Mario
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learstang
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« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2011, 06:54:23 PM »

When I first saw that Matt Bittner had shut down the forum, I realised that the end was in sight and I'll admit that I was saddened.  Modeling the Aircraft of the Soviet VVS, whatever its flaws, was my first exposure to an English-language VVS site, and helped spur my interest in all things VVS-related.  For that I will always be grateful.  It is unfortunate, however, that Mr. Pilawskii's farewell speech couldn't have been a little more gracious and less of an anti-everyone else screed.  Still I hope this site will continue to grow and improve.  Which it will with our help and Massimo's continued hard work.

Regards,

Jason
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"I'll sleep when I'm dead."

- Warren William Zevon

http://www.learstang.com
marluc
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« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2011, 10:57:13 PM »

Modeling the Aircraft of the Soviet VVS, whatever its flaws, was my first exposure to an English-language VVS site, and helped spur my interest in all things VVS-related.  For that I will always be grateful.
I fell just the same Jason,that site was a source of plenty of VVS related information that was not available in any form in my country.But the aggressiveness in EP farewell speech is senseless,it defines him as a very egocentric person.
Greetings.

Martin
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learstang
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« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2011, 12:26:26 AM »

Modeling the Aircraft of the Soviet VVS, whatever its flaws, was my first exposure to an English-language VVS site, and helped spur my interest in all things VVS-related.  For that I will always be grateful.
I fell just the same Jason,that site was a source of plenty of VVS related information that was not available in any form in my country.But the aggressiveness in EP farewell speech is senseless,it defines him as a very egocentric person.
Greetings.

Martin

I agree, Martin.  I believe it shows in the end why the site failed.

Regards,

Jason
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"I'll sleep when I'm dead."

- Warren William Zevon

http://www.learstang.com
John Thompson
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« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2011, 06:07:53 PM »

Oh dear God forgive me, the "farewell speech", with its overtones of martyrdom, is simply bizarre. I too first became interested in (addicted to?) VVS subjects through Matt and Erik's original site, and through a lot of personal communication with Matt himself, so I'm sorry to see it go. At least Erik is leaving the existing reference articles up for the time being; some of these were quite useful. Very sad, but very strange, too.

John
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Bonehammer
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Stealing the nail file from her own purse


« Reply #6 on: June 20, 2011, 12:52:04 AM »

Defending one's ideas in spite of all evidence, taking criticism as a personal attack, playing the martyr card and in the end taking the ball and going home... I wouldn't be surprised if he founded a party and ran for PM.

I'm going to save the site offline, tho. I recommend HTTrack to anyone wanting to do the same.
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I'm too lazy to even fi
KL
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« Reply #7 on: June 21, 2011, 01:29:05 AM »

Red banner aviation is on at
http://www.redbanner.co.uk/RBMain.html

interesting detail at http://www.redbanner.co.uk/History/history.html

In 2003 I published "Soviet Air Force Fighter Colours" through Ian Allen Pubs., and this work is still available through them.  A new volume is planned for release in 2012 to update SAAFC, and correct small bits of research presented therein.
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learstang
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« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2011, 05:00:08 AM »

Red banner aviation is on at
http://www.redbanner.co.uk/RBMain.html

interesting detail at http://www.redbanner.co.uk/History/history.html

In 2003 I published "Soviet Air Force Fighter Colours" through Ian Allen Pubs., and this work is still available through them.  A new volume is planned for release in 2012 to update SAAFC, and correct small bits of research presented therein.

Hmmm.  I just took a look at the site.  Nicely designed (certainly better than my site, www.learstang.com, which is devoted almost entirely to my computer art, and which I notice is having some problems now I need to correct).  I notice he has a section regarding self-publication.  I might ask him for his help on my IL-2 book, but somehow I don't think he would be too willing to help, as I'm firmly in the "Russian" camp when it comes to VVS colours.

Regards,

Jason
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"I'll sleep when I'm dead."

- Warren William Zevon

http://www.learstang.com
Troy Smith
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« Reply #9 on: June 25, 2011, 09:52:26 PM »

Red banner aviation is on at
http://www.redbanner.co.uk/RBMain.html

interesting detail at http://www.redbanner.co.uk/History/history.html

In 2003 I published "Soviet Air Force Fighter Colours" through Ian Allen Pubs., and this work is still available through them.  A new volume is planned for release in 2012 to update SAAFC, and correct small bits of research presented therein.

note
Quote
A
new volume is planned for release in 2012 to update SAAFC, and correct
small bits of research presented therein.
my added emphasis.

check http://www.redbanner.co.uk/History/il2guide/basic_vvs-colouration.html

still the same old EP, brown/green Il-2's, acid green, lurid blue....

still no mention of silver paint in markings, unless this counts
Quote
A tiny number of rare examples have been seen with quite unusual field applied colours.

Certainly not on star borders...
Quote
A very few examples of star borders may have been painted in other colours (e.g. yellow), but so far no such examples have been located in the archaeological record and remain unproven. Some rather fanciful colours for borders have been suggested (silver, blue, etc) but there is currently no evidence whatever to substantiate such ideas.


In his repudiation of the 1948 Albom, here http://vvs.hobbyvista.com/Research/1948/1948_Albom_Nakrasok.html
 he writes
Quote
disproved twenty-five years of dedicated scientific work! That sentence requires reading for a second time, and even then it is scarcely believable! And thereby, once more, it is seen that my work must be defended against... in fact, absolutely nothing.

OK, scientific work well, scientific is a term much abused these days, I presume he means "Scientic method"  it does have a meaning,  specifically
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method#Introduction_to_scientific_method

Quote
Scientific inquiry is generally intended to be as objective as possible, to reduce biased interpretations of results. Another basic expectation is to document, archive and share all data and methodology so they are available for careful scrutiny by other scientists, giving them the opportunity to verify results by attempting to reproduce them. This practice, called full disclosure, also allows statistical measures of the reliability of these data to be established.

Which has not happened with his work. The point here, I ran  across a reference to the below in a book "Bad Science"  I was going to post this before, but changed my mind, and I hope this does not offend, but bearing the above in mind,  I think this sums it all up rather well.

from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_Bullshit

Quote
On Bullshit is an essay by philosopher Harry Frankfurt. Originally published in the journal Raritan in 1986, the essay was republished as a separate volume in 2005 and became a nonfiction bestseller, spending twenty-seven weeks on the New York Times Best Seller list.[1]

In the essay, Frankfurt defines a theory of bullshit, defining the concept and analyzing its applications. Both lies and bullshit can either be true or false but bullshitters aim primarily to impress and persuade their audiences, and in general are unconcerned with the truth or falsehood of their statements (it is because of this that Frankfurt concedes that "the bullshitter is faking things", but that "this does not necessarily mean he gets them wrong"). While liars need to know the truth to better conceal it, bullshitters, interested solely in advancing their own agendas, have no use for the truth. Thus, Frankfurt claims, "...bullshit is a greater enemy of the truth than lies are" (Frankfurt 61).

my added emphasis. A succint summary I feel.   

Now in case anyone feels I'm being harsh, remember  EP said
Quote
twenty-five years of dedicated scientific work!

well, no, it's not until you
Quote
document, archive and share all data and methodology so they are available for careful scrutiny by other scientists


Not an unreasonable request is it.

T




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JP
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« Reply #10 on: June 25, 2011, 10:40:19 PM »

Man, I just read his "farewell speech".  I can't really put into words what I think about it.  I'll just say I can't even begin to imagine how Matt put up with His Holiness for as long as he did.

And to Matt if you are lurking - you are more than welcome here, brother. 

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John Thompson
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« Reply #11 on: June 26, 2011, 12:55:16 AM »


And to Matt if you are lurking - you are more than welcome here, brother. 



Well said, JP!

John
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John Thompson
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« Reply #12 on: June 26, 2011, 01:29:52 AM »


check http://www.redbanner.co.uk/History/il2guide/basic_vvs-colouration.html

still the same old EP, brown/green Il-2's, acid green, lurid blue....



Maybe it's all a huge "troll" - the brown/green Il-2 scheme was "exceedingly ubiquitous"? AII Green and Dark Green on the Yak-1? And what is AEh-15?  Maybe he's just trying to be provocative!

John
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learstang
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« Reply #13 on: June 26, 2011, 02:15:32 AM »


check http://www.redbanner.co.uk/History/il2guide/basic_vvs-colouration.html

still the same old EP, brown/green Il-2's, acid green, lurid blue....



Maybe it's all a huge "troll" - the brown/green Il-2 scheme was "exceedingly ubiquitous"? AII Green and Dark Green on the Yak-1? And what is AEh-15?  Maybe he's just trying to be provocative!

John

Well, I had to see it to believe it.  There it was, that great sodding brown/green scheme for the IL-2 mentioned as being "exceedingly ubiquitous".  Gott im Himmel!  I just hope I live long enough to see that wretched brown/green scheme finally get a stake through its heart.  His site could be a useful site, but to continue to put out the brown/green scheme, and how many uninformed people are going to believe it because it's presented so authoritatively.

Regards,

Jason
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"I'll sleep when I'm dead."

- Warren William Zevon

http://www.learstang.com
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