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Author Topic: Pe-2 with polichromatic camo in July 1941  (Read 25872 times)
Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #15 on: July 17, 2011, 06:23:53 AM »

Quote
I am just making an observation.

These Pe-2s have similar tonal contrasts and patterns to the experimental 1940 schemes, given that The I-16 is on a cloudy day, the Pe-2 in direct light.   
   
Hi Troy,
this is a possibility, of course. There is resemblance between this camo and the experimentals of 1940, at least on bw photos.
But, if you see the photos of the experiments of 1940, the light camo colors are clearly darker than the light blue of the undersurfaces.
Besides, any color so light to resemble AE-9 on bw photos, utilized in such abundance, would be poorly camouflaging on the ground.
I suppose that this unit could had SB in its inventory till few months before, so the availability of AE-9 is likely, and I preferred to suggest colors that were easily available.
Regards
Massimo

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KL
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« Reply #16 on: July 17, 2011, 08:56:30 AM »

you are joking, of course. Zinc chromate yellow ins't a camo color nor in air, nor on the ground. I don't see doubts that the colors were overpainted to the green.

No, I am not joking.  that is clearly visible, check the photo:  ruder structure (normaly only primed with ALG-1) is the same colur as tail plate and end of fuselage.  If you don't like yellow primer you may go with yellow-green, like Pilawskii on his reconstruction in Norwey.
Yellow isn't bad in summer in steppa; it's a sea of dry grass.  Even the background of the finnish photo is green and yellow



On the Finnish wreck, the border between grey-blue and yellow is chipped, not as we see on the wartime photo.

I don't understand your comment...  Do you agree that A-19f and AE-9 are very similar?

Cheers,
KL   
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #17 on: July 17, 2011, 03:48:40 PM »

Hi Konstantin,
I don't think that planes were delivered in yellow to the units, but in green A-19f.
Besides I don't think that the yellow that I see on the wrecks can be intended as a camo color, nor on the ground, even less in the sky. Maybe if they mix some other color...
The fact that zinc chromate appears similar to light greys and light blues on a photo  is known, but the conclusion doesn't look convincing.
I don't think that AE-9 and A-18F were so strictly similar, else they both would be called in the same way  'light grey' or 'light blue'.
The fact that the color on the pieces looks more as grey than as blue is interesting and should be explained, but I am not sure that this explanation is right.
Regards
Massimo
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KL
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« Reply #18 on: July 17, 2011, 04:46:51 PM »

Hi Massimo,
In your first post you asked for suggestions.  You got few:

?   blue should be lighter
?   gray is probably the same underside light blue(-gray)
?   on some wrecks it is evident that parts were primed only

It looks that you are really happy with your drawings and explanations, and that you will not accept any suggestions.  That?s OK, but next time, ask for comments only.

Cheers,
KL
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #19 on: July 17, 2011, 09:57:15 PM »

Hi Konstantin,
thank you all the same.
Regards
Massimo
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KL
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« Reply #20 on: July 18, 2011, 09:22:15 PM »

It is fascinating that several photos of different planes exist, but all are wrecks in German hands, from the summer, judging by the bright light and vegetation.  Is there any more information on the photos sources?  (eg from one German unit?)

Perhaps test unit with documents lost in the chaos of 1941?   

Hi Troy,  Smiley
More documents are preserved in Russian archives than in German archives.  Russian researchers have already identified unit, location, time when Germans destroyed these planes.

You were right - It was a test unit!  They tested dive bombing techniques, not camouflage schemes... Roll Eyes

Cheers,
KL
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KL
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« Reply #21 on: July 22, 2011, 09:22:58 AM »

Hi Massimo,  Smiley
Pe-2 from the same unit, summer 1941:

No 12




No 24



No 27


No 33



No 35



No 44



It would be interesting to draw more profiles, to show various schemes utilized by this unit.

Cheers,
KL
« Last Edit: July 23, 2011, 03:05:47 AM by KL » Logged
Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #22 on: July 22, 2011, 03:57:27 PM »

Thank you very much, Konstantin. Very good images!
I'll do it certainly, now I'm going on holidays and I'm trying to update and upload a page on Il-2s before leaving.
Regards
Massimo
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #23 on: August 09, 2011, 07:29:38 AM »

Hi,
I've updated the page with the photos from Konstantin and corrected the color drawings. Please, have a look.
http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/pe2/pe2-earlycamo24/pe2-earlycamo24.htm
Regards
Massimo
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KL
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« Reply #24 on: August 10, 2011, 07:52:13 AM »

Hi Massimo,
all following photos are showing the same plane - tailpate No 7









If you draw profiles for this plane and No 35 painted as I suggested (green ALG-1/A-18f/A-19f/black), I'll tell you what unit, where and when!!!  Roll Eyes  It's an interesting story.  Nothing to do with Manchuria.  Lips Sealed

Cheers,
KL
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #25 on: August 10, 2011, 01:08:33 PM »

Hi Konstantin,
thank you for the suggestion and the new photo. Now, I think to see a 7 (or even a 47) on the fuselage on the second photo, possibly painted red, at the border between black and the light color.
I am very interested if you have found the story of this unit.
Yellow... to tell the truth, I don't thnk it's the case, unless there is some proof or report of this use of ALG-1.
Regards
Massimo
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #26 on: August 10, 2011, 03:19:39 PM »

Well, ok, I'll trace profiles with your color... of course I'll write that it's your suggestion. But I need a fourth color, the patch on the tail doesn't seem black.
Besides I'm not fully convinced that the plane of the second image is the same of other ones. Try to make a chronology of successive damages visible... in the second image it has still the antenna mast but a bent prop axis, in the third there is not antenna nor blades but the prop axis is straight.
Regards
Massimo
« Last Edit: August 10, 2011, 03:31:51 PM by Massimo Tessitori » Logged
KL
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« Reply #27 on: August 10, 2011, 06:40:32 PM »

Chronologicaly:

Complete plane ( July 27, 1941??):




Vandalisation - Phase 1 (black engine cover in place):


Vandalisation - Phase 2 (no covers, no propeller, brocken antenna):



Cheers,
KL
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #28 on: August 10, 2011, 07:41:45 PM »

Hi Konstantin,
I've doubts that the third photo belongs to the same plane: the spinner looks black, while on photos 2 and 4 is light (black on the other side). Besides, in photo 3 the prop axis is bent. In photo 4, spinner and blades are removed, but the hub is intact. Maybe someone has moved the right propeller and left it on the left side... Besides, in photo 3 a small circular hatch is missing, and in photo 4 is reappeared (or was it the head of someone out of focus?).
Regards
Massimo
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KL
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« Reply #29 on: August 10, 2011, 07:45:19 PM »

Massimo,  Smiley

Pe-2 No 35 colours:



Rudder structure under ripped off fabric was yellow.  Plane in Finnish museum was shot down on June 29.  Pe-2 No 35 was destroyed in bombing week later, on July 05, 1941.

Cheers,
KL
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