Sovietwarplanes
May 20, 2019, 09:35:14 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: This forum replaces the old sovietwarplanes.com whose domain has expired in January 2017. It has been updated with the posts of the year 2016.
The new location of the site 'Sovietwarplanes pages' is at http://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/pages/
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register  
Pages: [1] 2 3
  Print  
Author Topic: Lavrinenkov's La-7, 9 GIAP  (Read 18934 times)
Pascal
Jr. Member
**
Posts: 90



« on: August 11, 2011, 12:39:08 AM »

Hello !

My next model will be Vladimir Lavrinenkov's La-7 (the 1/48 Eduard's one) :



I need your help, please ! Is this representation accurate ? I've seen other profiles with some differences, like blue or white spinner, a red outlined lightning bolt, etc.

The only pic I know is a front view where the spinner is undoubtly not white, but also too light to be red, I guess. But I've just found this copy, much better from first one, and the spinner seems as the cowling ring...



Could you give me more informations ?

Thanks to all,

Pascal
« Last Edit: August 11, 2011, 02:33:02 PM by Pascal » Logged

Massimo Tessitori
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 5692


« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2011, 08:33:57 PM »

Hi Pascal,
the cowling ring of the plane in the photo is camouflaged. One can distinguish the soft demarcation between the grey and light blue.
Regards
Massimo
Logged
KL
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1678


« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2011, 09:01:15 PM »

Hi Pascal,

I agree with Massimo; engine cowling was camouflaged in gray-gray AMT-11/AMT-12 scheme.  Only the spinner could have been red.

It?s a mystery why Russian artists have at least part of the cowling red!




The arrow was probably red


Same as Famous Amet-Han?s La-7


Cheers,
KL
Logged
Pascal
Jr. Member
**
Posts: 90



« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2011, 12:06:21 AM »

Hi Massimo and Konstantin,

Thanks to you ! If the cowling is camouflaged, it's not a problem for me. You're right, I now can see a demarcation between the two colours.

As I could read, the arrow was white before april 1945, then red. The aircraft I would like to represent were all AMT-11 on upper surfaces, with the white arrow, I guess as it was in december 1944... But I'm not sure. Do you know if or when La-7 were painted in a uniform gray on upper surfaces ?

Eduard offers the red arrow on a two-tones camouflage, like the known pics... If I (or you Wink) can't certify my project, I'll use the Eduard scheme.

Regards,

Pascal
Logged

learstang
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1733



WWW
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2011, 04:07:27 AM »

Pascal, do you or anyone else who reads this thread know of a good La-7 in 1/72nd scale?  I'm not necessarily looking for engraved panel lines (the La-7 didn't have many panels anyway) or a super-detailed cockpit, just a kit that is accurate in dimensions and the cowling, canopy, etc.  Simple and easy to build is a big plus also.  Any help would be appreciated!  Thank you.  I'm thinking about doing Sultan Ahmet-Khan's machine.

Regards,

Jason
Logged

"I'll sleep when I'm dead."

- Warren William Zevon

http://www.learstang.com
Massimo Tessitori
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 5692


« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2011, 07:02:17 AM »

Hi Pascal,
I can't be sure, but I think that the AMT-11 finish was a repainting of an original disruptive camo, I suppose they did this in 1945 or later; according to what you have written on the white arrow, I don't think that it's compatible. For example, Amet-Khan's plane first received the red arrow and nose, (see the photo), then maybe could has een repainted with uniform grey.

Hi Jason,
a modeller  told me that the shape of the La-7 of KP is better than that of the Eduard. Of course, it's a rather poor model on many points. The Hobbyboss, I think, is a poor copy of Eduard, so it remains the Eastern Express/Frog kit, I don't know it but I don't think it's better than other ones.

Regards
Massimo
Logged
learstang
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1733



WWW
« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2011, 07:25:54 AM »

Thank you, Massimo, I'll look for the Eastern Express copy.  I have a model I made out of the KP kit many years ago; the main fault I had with the kit was the shape of the canopy which didn't look right at all.  It's a sad comment on the state of VVS modelling when the best kit in 1/72nd scale of one of the best fighters of the war may be the copy of an old Frog kit.  Then again, look at the I-153.  At least with this, we'll hopefully have a decent kit from ICM by the end of the year.  Maybe instead of cranking out another sodding Spitfire (which does happens to be one of my favourite aeroplanes, but do we really need another early version of it?) or Bf-109 (if I see another new kit of an "Emil" in any scale, I think my head will explode), the Western manufacturers will look to the potentially huge market for VVS subjects in Eastern Europe.  Then again, why, when they can come out with whatever the current version of the F-16 is (I believe it's the F-16CJXKE Block 328Z with the new "Doorahk" electronics suite).

Regards,

Jason
Logged

"I'll sleep when I'm dead."

- Warren William Zevon

http://www.learstang.com
Massimo Tessitori
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 5692


« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2011, 03:35:06 PM »

Hi Jason,
are you sure that the canopy is wrong compared to photos? For what I know, Airacobra built a model of Eduard modified with a vacuformed canopy for KP, replacing the section of fuselage around it with a piece cutten from a KP.
For me, Eastern Express is only a curiosity. Who knows if there is any review of it on the web?
Regards
Massimo
Logged
KL
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1678


« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2011, 06:49:18 PM »

Pascal,

Solid gray for top surfaces wasn?t an official scheme during WWII.  November 1944 camouflage order, which introduced gray-dark gray scheme for shturmovics and bombers, actually confirmed 1943 two-gray scheme for fighters.  Album with new scheme appeared in January 1945.  All La-7 made during WWII were factory painted in two gray camouflage scheme.  

Photographic evidence suggests single gray for individual planes which may have been repainted in units.  I wouldn?t rush ? better quality photos usually show that planes were actually camouflaged in standard two-gray scheme.

Solid light gray became official scheme only after WWII.  La-9 would be an example for factory applied single light gray scheme






For Lavrinenkov?s La-7, check other 9 giap planes.  Following (poor quality) photos in most cases confirm two-gray scheme.

A.V. Alelyuhin


Sultan Amet-Han




Golovachov


Spinner colour depended on squadron (eskadrillya) planes belonged to:
1st eskadrillya - red
2nd eskadrillya - blue
3rd eskadrillya - yellow

Honestly, I would forget Eduard?s profile from the beginning of the tread!

Cheers,
KL
« Last Edit: August 12, 2011, 08:51:26 PM by KL » Logged
learstang
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1733



WWW
« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2011, 07:20:11 PM »

Konstantin, are you sure about those yellow spinners?  I've always been sceptical about their usage, even when veterans say they were used (60+ year old memories aren't the most reliable of sources).  Is their any archaeological evidence for their use?  It just seems stupid to have used the Axis identification colour on the front of your aeroplane - you would be asking for trouble in the form of friendly fire.  Just my opinion.

Regards,

Jason
Logged

"I'll sleep when I'm dead."

- Warren William Zevon

http://www.learstang.com
Massimo Tessitori
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 5692


« Reply #10 on: August 12, 2011, 08:04:48 PM »

Hi
about fighters immediately after the war: it's difficult to distinguish green planes from grey ones. They passed to green/light blue livery on Lavochkins and Yaks, this is proven by photos of wrecks and by reports, but I don't know exactly when; by sure, before 1950.
I've found an article of Vaklamov and Orlov on Scalemodels here http://scalemodels.ru/modules/forum/viewtopic_t_954_start_0.html, I suppose it writes the same things reported by Hornat, but it would be interesting to know more.
Regards
Massimo
Logged
KL
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1678


« Reply #11 on: August 12, 2011, 08:20:31 PM »

Konstantin, are you sure about those yellow spinners?

This was the end of war and fortunes had changed.  German fighters were rare and the initiative was on Soviet side.
Formation flying with bad or no radio connection was something that units had to deal with.  Hence so many regimental and other markings.

Think of hundreds of planes from different units in the air at the same time, relatively smaller front, allied planes near by.

Cheers,
KL
Logged
learstang
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1733



WWW
« Reply #12 on: August 12, 2011, 08:58:52 PM »

If you're saying this was something that was used near the end of the war, when the Soviets had achieved air superiority (if not air dominance) then it makes sense.  I just don't think yellow spinners in 1942 would have been very wise.  Although yellow spinner or not, at that time you were probably going to be shot down anyway, but then again why worsen your already slim chances?  So would you agree that yellow noses/spinners earlier in the war, say before 1944, were unlikely?

Regards,

Jason
Logged

"I'll sleep when I'm dead."

- Warren William Zevon

http://www.learstang.com
KL
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1678


« Reply #13 on: August 13, 2011, 12:07:27 AM »

would you agree that yellow noses/spinners earlier in the war, say before 1944, were unlikely?

Yes, I agree.  Yellow tactical markings were unlikely before 1944.

They passed to green/light blue livery on Lavochkins and Yaks, this is proven by photos of wrecks and by reports, but I don't know exactly when; by sure, before 1950.

In 1948 according to Orlov in Aviakollektsiya La-9 and Aviakollektsiya La-11 issues

KL
« Last Edit: August 13, 2011, 12:11:57 AM by KL » Logged
Massimo Tessitori
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 5692


« Reply #14 on: August 13, 2011, 07:30:21 AM »


Hi
Quote
In 1948 according to Orlov in Aviakollektsiya La-9 and Aviakollektsiya La-11 issues
Does it give any temporal goal for the overall light grey livery (AMT-16 I think)?
Regards
Massimo
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 3
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.11 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!