AMT-11 and AMT-12 Controversy

[learstang]

Excellent link, Jean!  Thank you!  It's always nice to see other people's work on VVS colours.

Regards,

Jason

[KIKKO]

Hi,I 've just shaked my paints!!!How suggested I've prepared first AMT-7:85% XF-23 +10% X-2+5% X-4.Then I've mixed this "Tamiya" AMT-7 in 50%+ 50% with XF-69 to get AMT-12 and in 70%+30% to get AMT-11.What do you think about????Ciao Enrico.

[Massimo Tessitori]

Hi Enrico,
they seem close enough to 35237 and 36118. Who knows if thet change in the same way when exposed to elements for long?
Regards
Massimo

[Apex1701]

Surprising results indeed.

I gather that the mix comes from  http://scalewiki.ru/%D0%B0%D0%BC%D1%82?s[]=%D0%BA%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B0
I was thinking that the results will be much darker.

With these results we can see that my AMT-11 is too light but that my AMT-12 seems on the spot.

Thanks Enrico.

Jean

[KL]

Hi,I 've just shaked my paints!!!How suggested I've prepared first AMT-7:85% XF-23 +10% X-2+5% X-4.Then I've mixed this "Tamiya" AMT-7 in 50%+ 50% with XF-69 to get AMT-12 and in 70%+30% to get AMT-11.What do you think about????Ciao Enrico.

Thanks Enrico!
I expected darker AMT-12.  I'll check those ratios, 30% blue seems to high.
Scalewiki table is a compilation of everything that was available in 2007-08, it even includes some info from Pilawskii... the table hasn't been updated for years.

Thanks again,
KL

[Seawinder]

It would be really useful if somebody mixes AKAN's blue AMT-7 and black AMT-6 in ratios indicated before.  AMT-7 and AMT-6 mixed in 1 to 1 ratio can not make light blue-gray (as seen above) for sure!
AMT-7 and AMT-6 mixes were field substitutes for AMT-11 and AMT-12.  Mixes were not drastically different then the original AMT-11 and AMT-12.  It would be very useful to see contrast between the two mixes.

Happy modeling,  
KL

Hi Konstantin.
Here's my attempt to oblige, although I've only had time to do the 1-to-1 mix to approximate AMT-12. Only big problem: I don't own any AKAN AMT-6, so I used Tamiya Black. It mixed easily with the AKAN AMT-7, and I imagine the result isn't very different from using AKAN's AMT-6. I'm guessing black is black. Anyway, here's the picture FWIW



The two colors are very similar, but the AMT-7/Black mix is bluer while the AKAN AMT-12 has a more brownish-violet hue.

I'll try the AMT-11 mix in the next day or so.

Pip Moss

[Seawinder]

Some days ago I posted some possible Model Master enamel mixes to approximate AMT-11 and AMT-12. Well, here's a picture that shows them and another discovery I just made: AKAN's AMT-11 is very similar to Model Master British Ocean Grey, although it is somewhat darker. Also, I changed the mixing ratio of my first AMT-11 attempt from 2 parts to 3 parts Model Master 36118 with 1 part Model Master 36231. Based on what I think is a pretty successful AMT-11 mix using British Ocean Grey, I intend to try using that color with Black for a possible AMT-12 mix. I'll post again with a picture if I'm successful. Anyway, here's the picture of my results so far. I applied a light flat clear coat to all the samples so that the reflectivity would be the same. I took the picture on a white background and corrected the background to white in PhotoShop.



More to come.

Pip Moss

[xan]

Hi Konstantin.
Here's my attempt to oblige, although I've only had time to do the 1-to-1 mix to approximate AMT-12. Only big problem: I don't own any AKAN AMT-6, so I used Tamiya Black. It mixed easily with the AKAN AMT-7, and I imagine the result isn't very different from using AKAN's AMT-6. I'm guessing black is black. Anyway, here's the picture FWIW



The two colors are very similar, but the AMT-7/Black mix is bluer while the AKAN AMT-12 has a more brownish-violet hue.

I'll try the AMT-11 mix in the next day or so.

Pip Moss

Hello Pip,
your AMT-12 is perfect, but as the akan one you will have too clear it...
perhaps better with tamiya XF-57 buff than with white...
Xan

[Seawinder]

Hello Pip,
your AMT-12 is perfect, but as the akan one you will have too clear it...
perhaps better with tamiya XF-57 buff than with white...
Xan

Hi Xan.
I put a very small amount of clear flat on the two samples to try to make the surfaces similar. Any more flat coat begins to lighten the colors significantly, but I would certainly make it flatter if it were an actual model. I'm still intending to go with a mix of Model Master British Ocean Gray and Black for AMT-12 for my next late-war VVS project. I'll send a photo after I've done some experimenting with mixing ratio.

I don't understand what you mean about the XF-57 Buff. I only used white as a background for the picture because it made color correction in PhotoShop easier ...

Pip

[Ohotnyik]

After mixing several Gunze Hobby Color paint I could achieve this:













Istv

[learstang]

Nice-looking Yak, Istvan - thank you for posting!  It certainly looks darker than what we're used to, but maybe we've just become used to the wrong colours.  I must say the unmixed AKAN colours still look too dark to me.

Regards,

Jason

[KL]

Hi Istvan, 
Nice - blue AMT-7 and blue-gray AMT-12 you applied look very good.  I would go with slightly darker AMT-12, but it's not crucial.
You could improve shape of camouflage fields; especially on the left wing.  As a reference use following 1943 draving



Jason,
1943 colours were darker than what we are used to!  Original colours of Musee de l'Air Yak-3 are significantly darker than those used to repaint the plane in 1970es



 

[learstang]

Jason,
1943 colours were darker than what we are used to!  Original colours of Musee de l'Air Yak-3 are significantly darker than those used to repaint the plane in 1970es



 

That does seem to be the case, Konstantin.  It just takes some getting used to.

Regards,

Jason

[xan]

Hi the yak is too much dark for my eyes...
For the AMT-7, I use 60%Akan AMT-7, 30%white, and 10% neutral grey

[Ohotnyik]

XAN, Jason!
Yes, mine is dark too until now I used a much lighter grey, especially the AMT-11 (see at La-7)
The recent colors are, only include the Scale Effect but not the weathering.
I always have the same questions stuck in my head.
-how did these paint reacted to the effects of weather ( snow ,rain etc)?
-How many factories were producing these paints to the military?
Could these factories guarantee the shame shades of colors or warrant that they will keep them trough the years, because it was a problem even in the 70?s and 80?s, for example in the case of cars too?
-How stabile was the resource supply in these factories?
How were the colors influenced by the  conditions of  the  applying?
-what kind of units did the troops receive, were these mixed or they had to do it themselves.
On the photos there are a few  where you could barely make out the borders of the colors , but in other instances the difference between the two colors are as clear as it can get.
 Right now the one and only reliable source is the France Jak-3. For me this beats the paint album  too.
Konstantin!
This Jak has been made only for experimenting with colors.
The line were created by the Stankov book, unfortunately my photos doesn?t  give me a clear sign of whether is it a repainted plane or  is it a standard painting pattern.
The vertical fin enhances the possibility of the repaint.
But I?ll open a new topic for this modell, to leave this to the paintings.