colour of the Yak-7 normandie-niemen Toula winter43

[xan]

Hi, A friend of mine is building the Normandieniemen's yak-7 trainer in toula (winter 43/44)
it could surely be AMT-6/AMT-7 colours but, it could ne AMT11/12 too.
I know that interpreting B&W pics is quite unsure, but what would you say of those pics, green and black or grey and grey?










[size=50]http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=fr&ie=UTF8&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.fr&sl=auto&tl=fr&u=http://airfield.narod.ru/yak/yak-7/yak-7_color.html&usg=ALkJrhieyruIXi0YPXnP1zLEdHF8kcjIUQ[/size]

My friends ended the model paintes as indicates the box:



when we told him the two ton green was, in our point of view, wrong, he decided te erase the paint and do it again...
great isn't it?

Xan

[learstang]

If it's winter of 43/44 it should be painted in the two-grey scheme.  It's hard to tell from the photographs.  No doubt someone here with more experience in interpreting photographs can give you a more definitive answer.  At any rate, too bad your friend has to redo it, as he did an excellent job, even if in inaccurate colours.

Regards,

Jason

[KL]

Hi Xan,  

For reference, Yak-7V in standard June1941 green-black scheme:


Yak-7V in standard July 1943 gray-dark gray scheme:




Your friend?s Yak-7V

Camouflage pattern:
N-N Yak-7V is camouflaged in ?evolved? 1941 scheme.  The plane was probably made in late 1942 or first half of 1943 and it seems that at that time some factories didn?t follow prescribed black-green pattern exactly.  Pilawskii calls elements of this scheme ?loops?, Massimo calls it ?the snake scheme?.  Both authors improvised quite a lot about this scheme.  
Plane definitely isn?t camouflaged in July 1943 gray-dark gray pattern!

Markings:
Definitely repainted to comply with September 1943 standard Red Star with wider white and thin red outline!  This may indicate that the plane was overhauled?

Colours:
Your choice:  the plane was originally camouflaged in black and green.  It may have been overhauled in autumn 1943 and repainted in gray and dark gray, but the original pattern remained.  Similar case is described in Vahlamov & Orlov.

Cheers,
KL  

[Massimo Tessitori]

Hi all,
I can't be sure, but the idea of an originally black-green plane later repainted in grey-grey looks reasonable.
In favour of it I would claim:
the comparison to the colors of the uniform and tyres, that looks much darker;
the blue loop on the nose sides, unlikely on green planes.
For comparison, look at photos of green-black planes on the snow: they appear very dark because the white background requires some underexposition.
Regards
Massimo

[AC26]

Hi, A friend of mine is building the Normandieniemen's yak-7 trainer in toula (winter 43/44)
it could surely be AMT-6/AMT-7 colours but, it could ne AMT11/12 too.
I know that interpreting B&W pics is quite unsure, but what would you say of those pics, green and black or grey and grey?

No comments about the colours, but those star borders: Could they be silver?

Cheers,

AaCee

[KL]

No comments about the colours, but those star borders: Could they be silver?

The standard was wider white and thin red outline, same as post-war Soviet markings.  Standard was followed in factories and all planes made after autumn 1943 should have had standard markings.
Overhauled planes and lend-lease planes (insluding P-39 preserved in Finland) are different story - sometimes silver was used as a substitute for white.

This Yak-7V has repainted fuselage and tail markings only.  Red star on wing underside is still original - no white outline



IMHO, airfield.narod.ru profile is quite realistic


I would only add thin red line on fuselage and tail stars and delete white outline from wing stars.

Cheers,
KL

[Massimo Tessitori]

Hi
I don't think that the star outlines are silver. They reflect as glossy light color, not as metallic color. THey look dark because the image is underesposed due to the snowy background.
Regards
Massimo

[AC26]

The standard was wider white and thin red outline, same as post-war Soviet markings.  Standard was followed in factories and all planes made after autumn 1943 should have had standard markings.
Overhauled planes and lend-lease planes (insluding P-39 preserved in Finland) are different story - sometimes silver was used as a substitute for white.

This Yak-7V has repainted fuselage and tail markings only.  Red star on wing underside is still original - no white outline

I don't think that the star outlines are silver. They reflect as glossy light color, not as metallic color. THey look dark because the image is underesposed due to the snowy background.

Thank you for your feedback, KL and Massimo.

I think, that there is still room for thinking, as
- Obviously the tail and fuselage stars were modified on the field, so the colour could or couldn't necessary be white and
- There are many lighter areas visible than the star borders. For example, look at the boots of the man standing on the wing.

Also, I have seen the ex-Tikkakoski, nowadays Hyryl?, Airacobra many, many times. The borders of the stars are not very shiny.

Cheers,

AaCee

[KL]

Also, I have seen the ex-Tikkakoski, nowadays Hyryl?, Airacobra many, many times. The borders of the stars are not very shiny.

Hi AaCee,
speaking of Hyryla P-39, what colour was used on wing underside to cover white disc that originaly surronded red star? Green, blue-gray, gray?



TIA,
KL

[AC26]

Also, I have seen the ex-Tikkakoski, nowadays Hyryl?, Airacobra many, many times. The borders of the stars are not very shiny.

speaking of Hyryla P-39, what colour was used on wing underside to cover white disc that originaly surronded red star? Green, blue-gray, gray?

Hi KL,

I'd call it pea-soap green.

Cheers,

AaCee

[xan]

hi everybody.
My friend tchac posted his Yak-7 repainted
Remenber , he started with this



so here are some definitive pics








much better isn't it?

and here, at the side of a normandie niemen's Yak-1 (the Durand's one).



I prefere the Yak-7 colors; what about you ?

Xan

[learstang]

Xan, it is much better.  I prefer the black/green scheme over the two-grey scheme myself.

Regards,

Jason

[marluc]

Congratulations to your friend xan,he made an excellent work.Greetings.

Martin