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Author Topic: Fw-190 with soviet engine???  (Read 18916 times)
marluc
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« on: October 05, 2011, 04:28:06 AM »

Hello:

This was extracted from CMK book Photo Hobby Manual,Special Drawings,Focke Wulf Fw-190 Part 1,it?s about a re-engined Focke Wulf fighter,they call it the Fw-190 M-82:



Is there any record or documents to support this?
Greetings.

Martin
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learstang
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« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2011, 06:12:29 AM »

Martin, I don't have any photographs, unfortunately, but I do have a couple of drawings.  Hopefully someone on this site has some photographs of this unusual and attractive aeroplane.  Interestingly, I've read that new-built Fw-190's are using Shvetsov M-82's in place of the original BMW 801's so the M-82 seems to be a good fit for the Fw-190.

Regards,

Jason



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"I'll sleep when I'm dead."

- Warren William Zevon

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marluc
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« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2011, 02:07:10 PM »

Hello Jason,thanks a lot for the profile and drawing.As far as I know,there are no photographs of this modified Fw-190.Greetings.

Martin
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KL
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« Reply #3 on: October 05, 2011, 08:16:35 PM »

Hi Martin/Jason,  Smiley

Text is suspicious - "reconstruction took place by 1946...".

What would be the purpose of this project?  Huh  Luftwaffe was defeated, no Fw-190s in the sky.  There was a plenty of wrecks and captured BMW engines in Soviet occupation zone (Soviets occupied main Focke-Wulf factory in Kotbus).  Main interest was in German jets and rockets, nobody cared about Me-109 and Fw-190 wrecks...  Did Americans re-engine any captured Fw-190s?

Why wasting time and effort, when jets (and modern planes like La-9, Tu-2 and Tu-4) were urgently needed?

End of the text can not be true "at present it should be preserved in the Museum..." - there are/were no preserved Fw-190 in Russian museums!!!  If there was one, it would have been sold/smuggled to the West in last 20 years.

IMHO, an urban legend!

cheers,
KL
« Last Edit: October 05, 2011, 08:18:45 PM by KL » Logged
learstang
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« Reply #4 on: October 05, 2011, 08:30:25 PM »

You may very well be correct, Konstantin.  It's always suspicious when there are no photographs (ever seen a photograph of an IL-2 in tractor green?).  A pity though, as it looks great as a Soviet 'plane with a Soviet engine.

Regards,

Jason
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"I'll sleep when I'm dead."

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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2011, 12:10:40 AM »

Hi all,
the interest in re-engining a FW-190 is the same for which Germans re-engined a Spitfire with a Daimler-Benz engine: making a comparison between two different types, it is not clear if the difference in performance is due to the engine or to the airframe.
In this way, they can obtain a complete comparison:
-how a FW performs with both engines allows a comparison between engines;
-how M-82 FW-190 performs compared to La-7-9-11 allows comparison between the airframes. Take in account that postwar La-9/11 were much more similar to FW-190 than to La-7.
After said this, I don't know if the plane really existed or not, but there was a good reason for it to exist.
Regards
Massimo
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KL
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« Reply #6 on: October 06, 2011, 01:19:58 AM »

This looks like BMW-801  Huh



the interest in re-engining a FW-190 is the same for which Germans re-engined a Spitfire with a Daimler-Benz engine: making a comparison between two different types, it is not clear if the difference in performance is due to the engine or to the airframe.


If Luftwaffe won the Battle of Britain and Germans occupied Great Britain, they probably would not re-engine that captured Spitfire. 

Later in the war, Germans captured La-5FN.  Why didn't they re-engine it with BMW-801?  It would make an interesting plastic kit... Wink

-how a FW performs with both engines allows a comparison between engines;
-how M-82 FW-190 performs compared to La-7-9-11 allows comparison between the airframes. Take in account that postwar La-9/11 were much more similar to FW-190 than to La-7.

After May 1945 Soviets lost interest in Fw-190.  Soviet engineers had enough time to study Fw-190 airframe and BMW engine during the war.  In 1946 they were busy with first generation jets.  La-9 was put in series production in 1946 (not Fw-190 with ASh or BMW engine!).  To say that La-9 was more similar to Fw-190 than to La-7 is a bit far strech.

After said this, I don't know if the plane really existed or not, but there was a good reason for it to exist.

in 1945-46 there was no reason for this project... Roll Eyes 

Regards
KL
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KL
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« Reply #7 on: October 06, 2011, 01:51:11 AM »

Martin/Jason/Massimo,

Check: http://randalf.cz/sw/ru/Fw_190_M82.php

Last sentence:  BTW: Cel? to je bl?bol, tohle vymysleli tali?ni v časopise jako apr?lov? ?ert :-)))

Google translation:
BTW: It's all gibberish, that Italians invented the magazine as an April Fool joke :-)))
 Lips Sealed
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marluc
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« Reply #8 on: October 06, 2011, 04:14:21 AM »

Why wasting time and effort, when jets (and modern planes like La-9, Tu-2 and Tu-4) were urgently needed?
This is exactly what I thought,in 1946 re-engining of a german plane was pointless.Thanks guys,greetings.

Martin
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learstang
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« Reply #9 on: October 06, 2011, 06:11:38 AM »

Yes, very funny - ha, ha, ha.  There's enough disinformation out there about VVS aeroplanes without people deliberately disseminating it.  For all I know that's how all this nonsense about the "ubiquitous" brown/green camouflage got started.  It was all just William Green pulling our leg!  Now how to get back at the people who did this M-82 Fw-190 "joke"...  I know, find out who originated the "joke" and e-mail him his mother is dead.  That'll give him a good larf.

Regards,

Jason
« Last Edit: October 06, 2011, 07:26:20 AM by learstang » Logged

"I'll sleep when I'm dead."

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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #10 on: October 06, 2011, 07:20:56 AM »

Interesting.
But do the author of the page know for sure that it was a joke, or is this his own joke?
Of course, I don't sustain the existance of a plane on which I haven't informations, but showing a photo of another plane isn't a fair proof.
Germans re-engined the Spitfire, this is a fact. What they would have done, had they won the battle of Britain, this is an opinion.
In 1946, La-9/11 with the same engine was still in production. Russians could have had the curiosity to know if they had made a better airframe of the old German plane, or not.

Massimo
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Walker
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« Reply #11 on: October 06, 2011, 12:29:06 PM »

Someone is going crazy from idleness...
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John Thompson
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« Reply #12 on: October 06, 2011, 07:47:39 PM »



To say that La-9 was more similar to Fw-190 than to La-7 is a bit far strech.


Like the La-9, "urban legend" says that the Grumman Bearcat and the Hawker Sea Fury, and possibly others, were "inspired" by the FW-190. Actually I think I did read somewhere (somewhere credible, that is) that the Hawker designers took a close look at a captured FW-190, but calling that anything more than professional curiosity is another stretch.


Someone is going crazy from idleness...


Pretty funny, Musa!  Cheesy Add me to that list - actually I'm just taking a break from building Mr Kozyrev's resin I-16 type 5! I hope all is well with you - you will need plenty of energy to deal with all the requests from Scalemodels.ru to design resin parts for the Zvezda Yak-3... Wink

John
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #13 on: October 06, 2011, 08:06:55 PM »

Hi John,
Quote
Like the La-9, "urban legend" says that the Grumman Bearcat and the Hawker Sea Fury, and possibly others, were "inspired" by the FW-190. Actually I think I did read somewhere (somewhere credible, that is) that the Hawker designers took a close look at a captured FW-190, but calling that anything more than professional curiosity is another stretch.
the Bearcat is clearly a scaled-down Hellcat, no any resemblance to FW-190.
The Sea Fury is an evolution of Tempest, that was derived by Typhoon, that has resemblance with the Hurricane. Again, no any resemblance with FW-190... apart, perhaps, the prototype of Tempest  that had the fan inside the spinner, a thing already seen on the prototypes of FW-190, AR-240 and I-185.
In the case of the La-9. it's a bit different. The whole airframe, being metallic, isn't derived from the wooden one of previous Lavochkins. The resemblance between La-7 and 9 is few more than the engine and armament. It is of the same size and power of the FW-190, and has an obvious resemblance. I don't mean necessarily that it was copied, but a comparison between the two types with the same engine is meaningful.
Regards
Massimo
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KL
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« Reply #14 on: October 07, 2011, 04:58:39 AM »

1:48 Conversion set offere by Antares models at  http://www.antaresmodels.com/verReview.asp?id_review=1296354659




equaly interesting "Fw-190 version"


From the same kitchen:




German WW II Atom Bombs, in 1:48 !!!  Huh  at
http://www.antaresmodels.com/verReview.asp?id_review=410458764

« Last Edit: October 07, 2011, 05:03:25 AM by KL » Logged
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