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Author Topic: Info about camo ol La 5FN of Vitali Popkov  (Read 8204 times)
KIKKO
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Posts: 19


...Frangar non flectar............


« on: November 01, 2011, 10:17:52 PM »

Hi guys,
i'm Enrico a newbie and i've a doubt:i 've to built the Zvezda 1\48 La 5FN of Vitali Popkov and I want to replace the decals sheet.....I 've found two sheets a Aeromaster one (n? 48086) and a Aml one (n?48012) ....booth have the airplane I searching for but the upper surfaces camo are different,the first one have grey ,green and brown while the second have dark grey and grey blue.....also the bottom surfaces seem to be different..........I think these are two different aircraft!!!What do you think-know?Ciao Enrico.
P.S.Also suggestion where find decals are very appreciated....... Wink
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xan
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« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2011, 10:53:42 PM »

hi Kiko,
if I'm not wrong, your la-5 can only be two grey camo wich was the fighter's camo;
the three tone camo was for the bombers, training plane etc..

Xan
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learstang
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« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2011, 11:01:59 PM »

Hi guys,
i'm Enrico a newbie and i've a doubt:i 've to built the Zvezda 1\48 La 5FN of Vitali Popkov and I want to replace the decals sheet.....I 've found two sheets a Aeromaster one (n? 48086) and a Aml one (n?48012) ....booth have the airplane I searching for but the upper surfaces camo are different,the first one have grey ,green and brown while the second have dark grey and grey blue.....also the bottom surfaces seem to be different..........I think these are two different aircraft!!!What do you think-know?Ciao Enrico.
P.S.Also suggestion where find decals are very appreciated....... Wink

Enrico, that first scheme sounds like the three-colour scheme, which was used on IL-2's (amongst other aeroplanes) but never on fighters.  The second scheme is the so-called "two-grey" scheme, which was introduced in 1943 and was used by fighter aeroplanes.  The colours are AMT-12 Dark Grey and AMT-11 Grey Blue.  The undersides would be the normal AMT-7 Blue.  A few La-5FN's were painted in the black/green scheme which was introduced in the middle of 1941, but almost all would have been in the two-grey scheme.  Here is a thread from this site which discusses the two greys - http://sovietwarplanes.com/board/index.php?topic=1151.0  Hopefully this helps!

Regards,

Jason
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"I'll sleep when I'm dead."

- Warren William Zevon

http://www.learstang.com
KL
Hero Member
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Posts: 1678


« Reply #3 on: November 02, 2011, 12:21:43 AM »

from http://www.rudolf.webservis.ru/72ag_books/mono/la5alekseenko/index.htm
photo that inspired most of the better profiles


from this forum http://sovietwarplanes.com/board/index.php?topic=201.30
probably the most accurate profile  Smiley


note the nose "air intake" and the light ring!
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2011, 07:49:12 AM »

Hi,
I had a look to the old topic http://sovietwarplanes.com/board/index.php?topic=201.15 , the photos posted by Renato, and have a consideration: the dark grey band on the stabilizer passes at different height on the photo of the white-nosed plane and on that one where 01 and the white stripes on the fuselage are visible. So I guess that they are not the same plane. This doesn't necessarily mean that the profiles are wrong, of course.
Regards
Massimo
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KIKKO
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Posts: 19


...Frangar non flectar............


« Reply #5 on: November 02, 2011, 10:46:23 AM »

Great work of historic re-costruction!At the end I can think to do:camo in Amt-11/Amt-12/Amt-7,no white tip on the tail,white spinner with a little white strip on cowling,no badge or lion's head on cowling.Only one thing about the demarcation line between upper and lower surfaces....from profile I can't see it very well,and if that continue on the rudder,perhaps no one can answer.....but same suggestions are ever appreciated.Thanks a lot guys.Enrico.
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bbrought
Jr. Member
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Posts: 90



« Reply #6 on: November 02, 2011, 01:23:34 PM »

Hi guys,
i'm Enrico a newbie and i've a doubt:i 've to built the Zvezda 1\48 La 5FN of Vitali Popkov and I want to replace the decals sheet.....I 've found two sheets a Aeromaster one (n? 48086) and a Aml one (n?48012) ....booth have the airplane I searching for but the upper surfaces camo are different,the first one have grey ,green and brown while the second have dark grey and grey blue.....also the bottom surfaces seem to be different..........I think these are two different aircraft!!!What do you think-know?Ciao Enrico.
P.S.Also suggestion where find decals are very appreciated....... Wink
Enrico, that first scheme sounds like the three-colour scheme, which was used on IL-2's (amongst other aeroplanes) but never on fighters. 

I don't have a set, but remember seeing those Aeromaster decals before. It is actually not the bomber 3-colour scheme, but something completely different and very strange. Here you go:

http://www.squadron.com/images/profiles/AeroMaster/jpg48/AN48086a.jpg
http://www.squadron.com/images/profiles/AeroMaster/jpg48/AN48086b.jpg

You see models built up occasionally following that scheme:
http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/rh/articles.php?id=6855
http://www.modelingmadness.com/reviews/allies/ussr/cleaverla5.htm

It is claimed to be a "winter scheme".

About the AML decals: I have this beautifully printed sheet but it is at home. I just noticed on their website that the "01" and stars for Popkov's plane are printed in silver:
http://www.aml.cz/dec/d48012-d.jpg
http://www.aml.cz/dec/d48012-b1.jpg
How plausible is this? On this image:

It does look like the star and numbers might be a different colour than the white vertical lines behind them.
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BA Broughton
learstang
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« Reply #7 on: November 02, 2011, 04:53:20 PM »

Light grey "winter scheme"; I wonder who came up with that one - maybe the same person who came up with the brown/green camouflage that still plagues profiles to this day.

Regards,

Jason
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"I'll sleep when I'm dead."

- Warren William Zevon

http://www.learstang.com
KL
Hero Member
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Posts: 1678


« Reply #8 on: November 02, 2011, 05:58:40 PM »

Light grey "winter scheme"; I wonder who came up with that one - maybe the same person who came up with the brown/green camouflage that still plagues profiles to this day.

In "Person's" theory planes were factory painted in one gray.  Two gray scheme was a field modification.  Grin

For this discussion it is important to identify misconceptions surounding Popkov's La-5FN:
-  there was no light gray "winter scheme"
-  there was no gray with green & brown bloches scheme
-  there is no photographic evidence (in popular literature?) for guards sign and tiger head on engine cowling

La-5FN tested in NII VVS in September 1944:
 

Number 01 is a coincidence - it denotes the 1st plane in the production series of 100 or 50 planes.

KL
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2011, 06:24:39 PM »

Hi all,
often repaintings are very evident a on grey/grey camouflage. Besides, the existence of grey/grey scheme is known to illustrators since the late '80s.
Probably, the illustrators  hadn't keys to interpretate the photo of a plane with repaintings before that age.
The same image of 01 badly grounded features some repaintings that could have given strange ideas to an artist of the '70s.
Regards
Massimo
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KL
Hero Member
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Posts: 1678


« Reply #10 on: November 02, 2011, 09:48:44 PM »

The same image of 01 badly grounded features some repaintings that could have given strange ideas to an artist of the '70s.

IMHO, La-5FN Number 01 is a fine example of standard 1943 two-gray scheme:





Regards,
KL 
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #11 on: November 02, 2011, 09:57:07 PM »

Quote
IMHO, La-5FN Number 01 is a fine example of standard 1943 two-gray scheme:
Yes, but there are traces of repainting on the rear fuselage and stabilizer and perhaps a red star deleted and repainted . If one don't recognize the standard pattern, he can think to a three-shade camo.
Regards
Massimo
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KL
Hero Member
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Posts: 1678


« Reply #12 on: November 02, 2011, 11:23:50 PM »

... If one don't recognize the standard pattern, he can think to a three-shade camo.

Tree-shade fighter camo scheme aka ?Sick Leopard Scheme?










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bbrought
Jr. Member
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Posts: 90



« Reply #13 on: November 03, 2011, 07:14:11 AM »

I just cannot get used to that "winter scheme" interpretation  Shocked

Does anyone have an opinion on the second part of my post - white versus silver "01" and fuselage star? AML interprets it as silver, and that close-up photo that I showed does seem to show a possible difference between the star / number and the white bands around the fuselage.
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BA Broughton
mholly
Full Member
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Posts: 117


« Reply #14 on: November 03, 2011, 08:41:41 AM »

Quote
I just cannot get used to that "winter scheme" interpretation
With the introduction of "gray-gray" scheme it was clearly formulated in VVS documents that "winter scheme is no longer required".
Painting procedure for g-g scheme was also established to paint darker gray first. Field repaints in overall lighter gray cann't be excluded but afaik
they are not documented "beyond reasonable doubt".
Quote
Does anyone have an opinion on the second part of my post - white versus silver "01" and fuselage star? AML interprets it as silver, and that close-up photo that I showed does seem to show a possible difference between the star / number and the white bands around the fuselage.
I agree with AML and vouch for silver paint.
Cheers,
Mario
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